I have read that for weddings it is best to put a lav mic on the groom and use a shotgun for back up.
My question is that if the bride has a quieter voice than the groom, surely if the lav is on the groom, the audio would have a really loud groom and a really quiet bride. The registrar would also be an issue, depending on their voice and the distance they are from the groom.(Bearing in mind I will only have one lav mic)
Would using a hypercardioid microphone like a rode nt3 on a boom stand placed near the bride, groom and registrar be a good idea.( or would another set up be advised)
Help is very much appreciated!

You can adjust the volume for each person in post editing. It won't be an issue. I don't use wireless lav mic now. There're so many issues with range and static and interference. Some church people will not allow you to use wireless device as they claim there are interference with theirs.

I'm using an Olympic voice recorder and a wired lav mic clipped to the groom. It picks up really good sound without worrying about range, frequency and stuff. Also, it gives me an additional audio track to use in post. Been using that way for a few years. very solid performance.

I have read that for weddings it is best to put a lav mic on the groom and use a shotgun for back up.
My question is that if the bride has a quieter voice than the groom, surely if the lav is on the groom, the audio would have a really loud groom and a really quiet bride. The registrar would also be an issue, depending on their voice and the distance they are from the groom.(Bearing in mind I will only have one lav mic)
Would using a hypercardioid microphone like a rode nt3 on a boom stand placed near the bride, groom and registrar be a good idea.( or would another set up be advised)
Help is very much appreciated!
macdvuser is offline Reply With Quote

You COULD mic the bride as well, and they do make white lavs like the Countryman B6 sub-mini that can be easily concealed. The mechanics of placing it make that a less than ideal strategy however (professional actresses are used to wearing a lav inside the blouse or bra concealed in their cleavage, something your average bride is likely to balk at).

The NT-3 is a pretty big mic and placing it a proper distance from the scene (that is, close enough to be effective) would put it in-frame and make it intrusive.

Thanks for the help.
Would you recommend a cardioid lav mic or a omni directional lav mic?
I am planning on buying a Sennheiser EW 100 ENG G2 wireless system which comes with the ME-2 (omni) microphone.

check out:

http://www.giant-squid-audio-lab.com/

You get them in white and black.

omni. the very last thing you want is a cardiod.... ok, so you get a white lav for the bride which you would conceal on the dress assuming she is wearing a white dress, where are you going to put the transmitter ? the only place you can is with a elastic thigh band pouch... and how many brides are gonna let you put your hands up their dress to hide the transmitter pak, connect the wire, ect ? proabably none.

1 lav on the groom will be fine. if anything you want a 2nd one on who ever is doing the ceremony... oh and what about in the catholic ones where they do the little speeches ? you need to cover the podiums too... or just mic the PA system.

You COULD mic the bride as well, and they do make white lavs like the Countryman B6 sub-mini that can be easily concealed.

A few weeks back, I worked on the reality show "whose wedding is it anyhow", I wired groom, bride, and minister. I had the bride using a Lectro 411 with a Sanken COS-11, I just made sure it was hidden (not hard with a wedding gown).

Wayne

Most weddings I've been to, it's the groom who has the softer voice.

A few weeks back, I worked on the reality show "whose wedding is it anyhow", I wired groom, bride, and minister. I had the bride using a Lectro 411 with a Sanken COS-11, I just made sure it was hidden (not hard with a wedding gown).

Wayne


I hear ya - when I suggested it a while back in the wedding/event forum almost everyone thought it an idea impossible to sell to the bride. I still think it wouldn't be all that hard to do. Of course, since the couple on your show knew it was for Real Broadcast TV they may have been more accepting of the technical production requirments than other couples might be.

My experience has always been (in news, training videos and documentaries) that women prefer to wire themselves and are less than willing to have a man move the mic or transmitter into a better location (for pickup, hiding the wire or minimizing mic or transmitter visibility) UNLESS they are seasoned pros at media relations or are on air personalities. I often here "That will be good enough", even if after the fact you suddenly hear "If you knew it was going to sound that bad, why didn't you tell me!"

I have thought of bringing a female audio person along in future.

Once again, this is one MAN'S opinion, based on MY experiences. No disrespect intended to any women out there.

I hear ya - when I suggested it a while back in the wedding/event forum almost everyone thought it an idea impossible to sell to the bride.

I guess it's a matter of WHY you're doing the shooting. If it's because they are paying you to do it, then the bride should be more open to it. You're absolutely right about my situation though. They signed a contract with the production company, so we had full access to both bride and groom, which included wireless wiring.

Wayne

I have thought of bringing a female audio person along in future.


Here are a few VERY important things. First, if possible, bring along a female for those situations where you need them to wire people who are not use to it, and feel uncomfortable getting wired by a man.

Men, this is extremely important! DO NOT EVER wire a female without other people around, wire a female alone, or wire a female where she feels uncomfortable (dark or out of the way rooms, etc). I worked on a production where a sound mixer of 25+ years was accused by a 20-something actor of inappropriate touching. The line producer talked to me and I explained that I seriously doubted that since I had known the individual for quite some time and he taught me how never to get into that situation, which was why we were wiring everybody at the sound cart in the open. Turns out, she later recanted and said he was simply "too rough"... I explained to her that we had 8 people to wire in most scenes and we simply were in a rush since we never had access to actors until they arrived on set minutes before the shooting began. Lesson here, is NEVER EVER wire a person alone. (Have I said that enough?)...

I will at times explain exactly where I want the mic placed to a female and let her wire the other female. I then check the sound quality and have them make any adjustments as necessary.

Wayne

While I totally agree with what Wayne discusses in his last post, I have been amazed at the number of female talent who have seen me approach with a lavalier and nonchalantly lifted their shirt and or blouse, exposing their bra as if it were not a big deal and a normal thing. Mostly Hollywood actresses and professional talent behind the camera.

Fortunately I mostly work on doc stuff so I usually hand them the lav, ask them to thread it up through their blouse or shirt for me and I affix it to their collar or blouse. I only occasionally need to hide lavs where we get into pinning on the bra but on occasion I have the makeup artist who is usually a female do that part of it.

Best,

Dan

For Weddings if you only have one mic I would mic the priest or equivalent, he/she is going to do most of the talking, then I would ride the levels in post for the vows and whatever else they may need to say.
Thankfully I have two mics now(a G2, and a Samson(The Samson failed to pic up audio one time)). The priest gets the G2 and Groom gets the Samson. I still have to ride the levels in post and the ceremony. So far this has been working pretty good for me.

If you can, I would at least try to pick up an extra cheap wireless(azden) http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/3656-REG/Azden_WLX_PRO_WLX_Pro_Wireless_Lavalier.html
or better if you can afford it. Backups are always good to have unless someone thinks this could interfere with the other wireless.

The discussion re wiring women seemed to kicked off from me referring to black and white lavs. I would never wire a bride. The white lav is simply for when such a mic would make the mic less intrusive, like when a groom has a white shirt and white tie.

The discussion re wiring women seemed to kicked off from me referring to black and white lavs. I would never wire a bride. The white lav is simply for when such a mic would make the mic less intrusive, like when a groom has a white shirt and white tie.

I have to ask, why not?

I have to ask, why not?

I'm curious about this too.. If the idea is to get the audio along with the video, then it seems to make sense to wire up as many people as you can. When we shoot films, we don't skimp on who gets wired (OK, sometimes we do), why should it be any different for a wedding?

By the way, I agree with Dan. I've had very few professional actors who were timid about baring it all for me, so I could wire them up. Those who have worked in Theatre seem especially open, which makes sense because they are using doing costume changes out in the open due to time constraints. It's when you work with new actors or people who don't normally act that tend to have issues with a man "handling" them. As I said, be smart and everything should be fine.

Wayne

I have to ask, why not?

Every part of a wedding dress, in my experience is specifically designed for the look they want to achieve. I haven't yet heard of a mic being part of that design equation so if one is used it becomes an unplanned for tack on. Grooms suits or similar, and shirts, are more general purpose pieces of clothing with pockets etc and so can accomodate a mic and cable and iriver or transmitter no trouble.

Every part of a wedding dress, in my experience is specifically designed for the look they want to achieve. I haven't yet heard of a mic being part of that design equation so if one is used it becomes an unplanned for tack on. Grooms suits or similar, and shirts, are more general purpose pieces of clothing with pockets etc and so can accomodate a mic and cable and iriver or transmitter no trouble.

A mic like the Countryman B6 is so tiny that it can be concealed almost anywhere - go inside the bodice line and it's totally totally concealed. Transmitter needs a bit more creativity but there's a lot of places it can go under the dress - you don't need pockets in the garment to put it in or a trousers belt to hang it on.

Just had an idea - start lobbying the wedding dress industry that they begin making a transmitter pocket or loop for it to clip to on the underside of the dress! :)

Every part of a wedding dress, in my experience is specifically designed for the look they want to achieve. I haven't yet heard of a mic being part of that design equation so if one is used it becomes an unplanned for tack on.

You don't tack it on, you place it under. I will admit it's second nature of me and others who have worked in film to do this, because this is simply part of the routine. Recently I've been doing a lot more ENG interviews and such, where clipping on the microphone is more common. It has actually been fun to do these types of shoots because you don't have to worry about clothing noise as much.

If you're not use to hiding the microphone, it can take some work to get it right where you don't have clothing rustle, but when done correctly, your audio will sound much better. The Countryman, Sanken, Tram, or DPA mics all are tiny enough to hide without much of a problem, so you might consider using one next time (should you decide to wire up the bride). As far as the transmitter goes, use an ACE bandage and wrap it around the bride's leg, with the transmitter in between the bandage. This is where you will probably need help from bride's mother, female sound person, or another female who can help you out.

Wayne

Wayne

One practical problem is that the bride is usually the last person to arrive, so any rigging of radio mikes will have to be done where she's dressing. I'd done know about the USA, but here that's commonly some distance away and then she's driven to a church or registry office. She then sweeps out of the car straight into the church.

I have read that for weddings it is best to put a lav mic on the groom and use a shotgun for back up.
My question is that if the bride has a quieter voice than the groom, surely if the lav is on the groom, the audio would have a really loud groom and a really quiet bride. The registrar would also be an issue, depending on their voice and the distance they are from the groom.(Bearing in mind I will only have one lav mic)
Would using a hypercardioid microphone like a rode nt3 on a boom stand placed near the bride, groom and registrar be a good idea.( or would another set up be advised)
Help is very much appreciated!

If you're using the Sennheiser Evolution G2 wireless with the stock ME2 cardioid, try mounting the lav lower than normal on the groom's shirt. In other words, position the lav mic between the sternum and belly button. Adjust the sensitivity on the Transmitter to around -10 or 0. You'll spend less time in post riding the levels since the mouth to mic distance will be more equal.

If you can spend a few extra bucks, go for the Countryman B6 lav that a few others have mentioned. Easy to hide and sounds great. Just be careful of the cable. It's thin. If you want to hear it, there is an example video online where I tested it out with a local singer playing acoustic guitar. She's mic'd up with the B6 on a Sennheiser wireless. Fed directly into camera, no mixer. http://www.dvcreators.net/countryman-b6-lavalier/

No hassle with wireless.
Just 2 x Samson Zoom H2 digital recorder, 2 x lav mic and you are set below 500 USD. 96 kHz quality and also has its own perfect built in mics. 4 OZ per piece, fits in the pocket of the groom.
Add a cheapo Blackberry case with a belt clip for the minister and you are on the go.

(don't forget to clap after you started both devices, so later you can sync no sweat)