I've had people ask if they can have the raw footage. Just wondering what the industry standard is? If you sell it...what do you charge?

Just curious
Thanks!

I've had people ask if they can have the raw footage. Just wondering what the industry standard is? If you sell it...what do you charge?

Just curious
Thanks!

I've recently begun charging $10 a tape to put raw stuff of Dvd for them but I think I'll be going back to not offering it at all. I really don't like the pressure of knowing that they can possibly see every second of tape. Makes me paranoid about leaving the camera on at the wrong moment or catching a conversation on tape or something.

I didn't used to offer it. Then I started offering the original MiniDV tapes for a flat $50 fee. This coming year I'm adding the option to put all raw footage onto DVD, with a flat fee of around $800-900 (I typically have 8-12 tapes per wedding). The idea is to keep the option available, but make it cost-prohibitive so that most couples don't want it. For those that do, I'm getting compensated for the time.

Nathan, at $10 a tape I think you're REALLY shortchanging yourself. Even if you don't mind making only $10/hr as a skilled professional, it's going to take more than an hour of your time to put a tape onto DVD. Raise your prices and get paid for your skill, my man.

We charge $30NZD/hr footage on DVD, but no one really wants it. In my area, some videographer provide raw footage as part of the package.

Personally, I think only editor would be interested into look at raw footage. For normal customer, when they look at raw footage, they would think "what is that?". One of my friend who received a 3 hr raw footage, she played for 2mins on her DVD player and decided never watch it again.

Under NO circumstances whatsoever will I sell nor will I give the raw footage to any of my clients. I will never offer it as part of any of my packages, nor do will I ever offer it separately. This is for many reasons, up to and including (but not limited to) copyright, liability, and privacy issues.

I try to make all of my clients fully aware of this; however it's not always easy to do so. I try to explain to all of my clients that when they hire me, they are paying for what I offer. In other words, they are paying me to:

1) be their wedding videographer, and
2) for an edited and completely customized wedding DVD package.

They are NOT paying me for the raw footage which makes up said package, nor will they ever be entitled to it. Period.

I realize that there are other wedding videographers out there who might do things differently than me, but that's okay. That is their decision. However, personally I am very strict about this rule. Written contracts exist for a reason, and this is one of them. By offering raw footage, you are taking a huge risk to your business (for reasons listed above).

Just my two cents.

Adam Barker
Playsock Films

By offering raw footage, you are taking a huge risk to your business (for reasons listed above).

Just curious what those reasons actually are. I know you listed copyright, liability and privacy ... but in what ways do those become risks to my business? I'd like to hear some specifics.

I didn't used to offer it. Then I started offering the original MiniDV tapes for a flat $50 fee. This coming year I'm adding the option to put all raw footage onto DVD, with a flat fee of around $800-900 (I typically have 8-12 tapes per wedding). The idea is to keep the option available, but make it cost-prohibitive so that most couples don't want it. For those that do, I'm getting compensated for the time.

Nathan, at $10 a tape I think you're REALLY shortchanging yourself. Even if you don't mind making only $10/hr as a skilled professional, it's going to take more than an hour of your time to put a tape onto DVD. Raise your prices and get paid for your skill, my man.

I agree. $10 is just devaluing your time & effort. I have a "no edit" package where I will hand over the footage (burned to DVD-Rs of course... I ALWAYS keep the tape) for $600 (single cam). I am asking $300 for the raw footage if someone wants it AND a actual edit. I figure I want to make it high enough so that .... and i hate to say it..... so that they are reminded of the price gouging some photographers charge for prints later (like my roommates photographer wanted $300 for a single picture 1yr after the wedding....crazy).

And by "reminded" I don't want it to be that negative. But I do want them to have second thoughts, realizing that there is incredible value just in the footage itself.

I have not had any takers yet. My most recent bride's dad is an amateur editor and did inquire about it, but he decided not to purchase it.

Just curious what those reasons actually are. I know you listed copyright, liability and privacy ... but in what ways do those become risks to my business? I'd like to hear some specifics.

I don't actually have any real problems with selling it. Heck... more money for me if they want to try their hand at the edit desk. There are some seconds thoughts because they will see all the other footage and may think less of me..... but honestly, if they are an editor, they will already know what that is like.

I don't think I have too many of those "oops I screwed up and said something bad" moments, and if I do, I would sure as heck cut that scene from the "raw" footage DVDs.

I don't actually have any real problems with selling it. Heck... more money for me if they want to try their hand at the edit desk. There are some seconds thoughts because they will see all the other footage and may think less of me..... but honestly, if they are an editor, they will already know what that is like.

I don't think I have too many of those "oops I screwed up and said something bad" moments, and if I do, I would sure as heck cut that scene from the "raw" footage DVDs.

That was my thought originally. I was storing the original tapes, but had no contract with the client to actually keep them. So I started thinking if a client wants to pay for the tapes that I'm just going to throw away someday, why not? Like someone else said already, the chances of a client actually watching it all or doing anything with it is fairly slim anyways, so unless you've done something illegal or in breech of your contract, I don't see the risk really.

I don't provide my clients with the raw footage - and I don't have it as an option to purchase.

At one stage I did consider it ... after watching through the raw footage from a shoot with some friends. I was amazed at how much they enjoyed watching it - I guess because it was them in the footage and they could giggle at every quirky expression etc ....

Still ... that wasn't enough to convince me to offer it. Less is more in my opinion.

It's similar to a photographer handing over 800 raw images on a CD vs giving the client the absolute best 50 photoshopped images. Some clients will want the images on a disc but I feel you can command a higher price for the latter. Quality vs Quantity.

There something about the 'magic' of the final edit, or a photoshopped image vs raw footage/images. There's a mystery to it - and it's that mystery that should set us apart as professionals. These days, almost anyone with a digital still/video camera can record 8 hours of footage or snap 800 photos and burn it to a disc.

Especially with wedding videography, where the constant question of "Why can't Uncle Harry film my wedding?" is often the bane of our industry, we need to do everything possible to set ourselves apart and demonstrate why Uncle Harry can't do what we do.

Travis - your method of 'keeping the option available, but making it cost-prohibitive so that most couples don't want it' is a good compromise.

One last thought though ... If raw footage wasn't an option on a price-list, how many people would ask for it? By having it as an option on the price-list are people just being encouraged to ask for it? Surely the people who want the raw footage are going to ask for it anyway? If the deciding factor for a bride choosing another videographer over me was because he offers the raw footage and I don't ... I would be questioning whether they were my ideal client in the first place.

I would say basically the same percentage of people express interest in the raw footage whether it was on my price list or not. I think the advantages of having it on there for a substantial fee are these:

- the client feels good that they have the "option" to buy, even if they don't want it
- the substantial fee attaches a higher perceived value to the footage
- in that rare case where someone does want the footage, you get paid well for it

I know there are arguments that giving away the footage is giving away the copyright, and that the client can then do what they want with it. But really, how many of our clients are going to load up 10 hours of footage and edit? I'd say basically zero percent. That will change possibly in the future, as iMovie and similar programs gain popularity, but that's still a ways off.

My wife is a photographer, and she doesn't release the originals because people will then take them to low-quality places to get reprints, and her image suffers as a result. Also, half of her art is in what she does with an image after she has it on her cpu, so she doesn't want to give out all of the original files and have people printing those. She wants to work her magic on anything they want printed.

People are generally quite familiar with photographs and cheap photo-editing applications, or even basic Photoshop skills. The same is not true in the video world. The average person has played with an image on their computer at some point, but they probably haven't done anything with video.

Also, there's very little chance that a video client is going to come back and have to do different edits with the original footage. So there's no return business to lose by selling off the original footage.

All of this is what led me to offering it, but for a decent price.

This is the miracle and the bane of the democratization/commoditization of technology.

When you needed a printing press to create a book, you got fewer books, presumably with better quality because of the threshold they had to cross. When everyone with a computer is a "publisher" you get lots and lots of drivel and maybe a few gems...

When you needed tens of thousands of dolars in equipment in a studio to record and produce an album, you got supergroups and massive sales of albums... Now any teenage dreamer can record his idea of "music"... we all know how that's worked out. Today's "superstar" is some geek on U-Toob (using nauseatingly low quality video no less)who manages to illustrate exactly how talentless he truly is... 15 vaguely "deserved" seconds of fame... makes you wish for the "one hit wonder"...

When a camera was something fairly large and complex to operate, you got fewer images, but better quality... now every Joe, Jane and Harry has a phone with a camera in it... so you get coverage of everything happening everywhere anytime, and mostly looks like poop.

Video is the last bastion to fall... and fall it will. When I can get a higher quality video out of an SR11 than most "pro" cameras could possibly produce 10 years ago...

The one saving grace in all of this is that technology does not replace skill or talent, at least not entirely, but it sure makes it harder to stand out in the crowd...

What does this have to do with providing raw footage? Well, I'd suspect demand for "shoot only" service may become more prevalent, and of course it's going to be important to differentiate the services you offer from "uncle Bob"...

I sell it to them for $1000. They are no use to me cuz i don't like to reuse tapes. I don't worry about liability cuz i am hired to document the wedding so what ever happens there, it ain't my fault. The only think i say before giving it to them is that i shoot to edit. (*___*)

I sell it to them for $1000. They are no use to me cuz i don't like to reuse tapes. I don't worry about liability cuz i am hired to document the wedding so what ever happens there, it ain't my fault. The only think i say before giving it to them is that i shoot to edit. (*___*)

Do you actually get many takers on that, for $1,000? I've been selling my original tapes for $50 flat fee for 2 years, and I've had just one taker so far.

The one saving grace in all of this is that technology does not replace skill or talent, at least not entirely, but it sure makes it harder to stand out in the crowd...

This is where I think the commonplace of video is helping the industry. Because the bride's brother can show up with a videocamera and film the wedding, the "professional" must now offer something better than that. I'm glad I was fortunate to get into the industry after the years of straight-up, non-creative shooting and editing. I don't fault those that did that back in the day, but I sure am glad I'm not stuck doing things that way.

I've had people ask if they can have the raw footage.

In all the years I've been shooting I have been asked just once for the raw footage of the 'guests arriving' at a wedding as the bride hoped there was more film of someone that didn't make the final edit. I assured her that no, if the footage was good, she already had it. But she offered real money and I succumbed.

But even so I couldn't bring myself to send the real raw footage, so I quickly crash-edited that to remove the long periods where I move between locations and keep the camera running. I couldn't bring myself to show them how much junk I shoot to get the 30:1 cutting ratio of the final edit, especially with this run 'n' gun stuff.

Of course I bet she was surprised to find the tape was HDV (i.e. couldn't see it), but I never heard back. And next time I have a new table made for my kitchen I'm going to ask the carpenter for all the wood offcuts, all the sawdust, all the bent nails and screws that went into making it.

tom.

And next time I have a new table made for my kitchen I'm going to ask the carpenter for all the wood offcuts, all the sawdust, all the bent nails and screws that went into making it.

tom.

Hey Tom - this made me laugh out loud :)

Hey Tom - this made me laugh out loud :)

Heh... that is a very good analogy.

I didn't used to offer it. Then I started offering the original MiniDV tapes for a flat $50 fee. This coming year I'm adding the option to put all raw footage onto DVD, with a flat fee of around $800-900 (I typically have 8-12 tapes per wedding). The idea is to keep the option available, but make it cost-prohibitive so that most couples don't want it. For those that do, I'm getting compensated for the time.

Nathan, at $10 a tape I think you're REALLY shortchanging yourself. Even if you don't mind making only $10/hr as a skilled professional, it's going to take more than an hour of your time to put a tape onto DVD. Raise your prices and get paid for your skill, my man.

I agree Travis, when we shot on minidv, I would provide the tapes to the client at no fee and only had a few takers over the years. But now that we are HDV I can't just hand them a box of tapes anymore (especially cause we shoot 24f). I really need to make it cost prohibitive or stop offering period...

I gave my tapes to one client years ago when we first started. And I have regretted it ever since. Sometimes I have people ask me about selling the raw footage, but I would probably only do it for a significant charge, one probably more than the package itself. And I would only put it on a drive, not give them the tapes, that way they can pull each clip into windows media player etc.

On the flip side, when I married my wife, I bought her potrait negatives. Don't ask me if I've ever done anything with them. sigh. But for me, it was still worth the purchase.

The other side of this is I am ending up with a very large collection of tapes, in the thousands of dollars. But that's another thread all together.

I LOVE that analogy that Tom used!!!

Thanks everyone for your input! I have to admit...I'm pretty happy to hear that I'm not the only one who REALLY doesn't want everyone to see my Raw footage. I've only been doing this for less than a year and I still cringe when I upload my footage. It never occurred to me that anyone else runs to a better location with the camera running!!

Somehow I still manage to pull out 2hrs of nice footage but I can't help but wonder what the "general public" would think if they saw it raw!

One point that I took note of...is that there may be "private" conversations on there. I often have "fun/candid" convos with the photographers while the camera is running and I'm shooting stuff that I KNOW will be shown with music playing.

As well I recently videotaped a Gr 8 graduation and those kids said stuff that the parents would NOT want to hear. Best example: One girl repeatedly mentioning how 2 other girls ALWAYS make out when they are drinking (these were 13-14 yr olds and it was a CATHOLIC school graduation). Repeatedly they kept adding "DON"T PUT THAT IN THERE!!" and I promised I wouldn't...can't very well sell that to the parents now can I?

My wife is a photographer, and she doesn't release the originals because people will then take them to low-quality places to get reprints, and her image suffers as a result. Also, half of her art is in what she does with an image after she has it on her cpu, so she doesn't want to give out all of the original files and have people printing those. She wants to work her magic on anything they want printed.



Hey Travis, this is off the subject, but what lenses does your wife use, i.e. speed mm etc? You can email me if you want. My wife does the still work for our video and I'm looking for a well rounded Nikon lens idea.

One point that I took note of...is that there may be "private" conversations on there.


That's a very good point you make and one I hadn't thought of. The very sight of the Rycote Softie above my Z1 often has people gagging themselves and saying, 'you didn't record that, did you?'

So if you sell on your raw, you'd have to edit it for audio too.

I don't sell or release raw, period. I make it clear up front, though. It just ends up causing more problems than good for the types of stuff I cover.

So how do you handle it when you clean your digital archives, then?

We are running low on storage space, so I put together a policy of archiving for one year and then letting the client come over with a hard drive to clean off their files, otherwise we will charge them $300/year to store it if they want us to maintain it. No one has actually taken me up on cleaning off their files to a hard drive, yet. Mostly, we have just wiped them. We always have the tapes and can charge them again for do-overs....

I like better the idea of selling them the tapes rather than the digital files, however, let them work for it. They're welcome to the raw footage, especially if they'll pay for it. I sure don't need to warehouse it. I don't shoot weddings, however, but do shoot a lot of event, where the private conversation aspect is less relevant. Unlike weddings, we have repeat event clients, so there are situations where it is in our interest to hang onto the files and the footage, for re-use in their other projects.

We used to sell our raw footage for $150. I would cut out some of the junk, compress it all in to a file and burn it to a DVD. As of about 2 weeks ago, I don't offer it anymore and will NEVER give it to anyone again.

We have gone back and forth about this but have decided it's not something we want to do for the following reasons:

1. it takes a ton of time if you are putting it all to DVD like I was. Definitely not worth $150 once I get that going and it holds up one of my computers for 8-15 hours.

2. you never know whats on there. I know I've said things that I wouldn't want the bride and groom to hear and I would hate to accidentally do so and then give them the footage. Let's face it, we all get frustrated at some weddings and begin bitching about something to another shooter or photographer...and then whoops! I left it recording that whole time.

3. We have developed a style of shooting that would be horrible trying to watch as raw footage. I don't just point at the crowd and leave the camera running...hardly ever. We get shots and moving shots that I do 10 times just to get right. Like someone else said, they're not going to want to watch that. I'm mainly using this point as I explain to my couples why they DON'T want to buy it.


We've had a lot of people want the raw stuff lately for some reason and I just don't want to do it anymore. I never really run into any problems but I potentially could and I would rather focus on making a great video that includes nearly everything than doing both!

Matt

One point that I took note of...is that there may be "private" conversations on there. I often have "fun/candid" convos with the photographers while the camera is running and I'm shooting stuff that I KNOW will be shown with music playing.

I guess I make it a point to watch what I say if my camera is rolling. I would recommend you do the same just to be safe.



As well I recently videotaped a Gr 8 graduation and those kids said stuff that the parents would NOT want to hear. Best example: One girl repeatedly mentioning how 2 other girls ALWAYS make out when they are drinking (these were 13-14 yr olds and it was a CATHOLIC school graduation). Repeatedly they kept adding "DON"T PUT THAT IN THERE!!" and I promised I wouldn't...can't very well sell that to the parents now can I?

Why not? If a 13-year-old is going to be dumb enough to say stuff that they don't want their parents to hear, while knowing that a videocamera is running on them, oh well for them. You may have agreed not to put it on the final edit, but you made no verbal agreement with them about releasing the tapes. Besides, those 13-year-old's aren't your client. They aren't paying your bills. Don't worry about them.

If anything, maybe it would be good for their parents to know what they're up to, lol.

I guess I'm still confused. People keep mentioning "all of the problems" selling the raw footage can cause, but I'm not hearing any specifics. Honestly it sounds like a lot of irrational fear to me.

The only specifics I've seen so far is you might be saying things you don't want the B&G to hear later, and your raw footage looks horrible. Well ...

You should probably get in the habit of not saying things at the wedding that you don't want the B&G to hear. And it's not like you don't have control of when you're recording and when you're deciding to speak. Seems like a really simple fix to me. Besides, even if you aren't recording, I think it's a really bad idea to say anything at the wedding that you wouldn't want the B&G to hear. You never know when someone else might be around to hear it. Just make it a habit to keep your mouth shut and you'll have no problems with that kind of stuff.

As for raw footage looking horrible, that's the point. Once the B&G start watching it, they probably won't finish watching it. If someone wants my raw footage, I'm very clear with them that it is unedited and generally uninteresting. If they still choose to buy it, and then find out it's no fun to watch, oh well. They just paid me to take their tapes out of my storage. Seems like a win-win situation for me.

If these are the only real fears with selling raw footage, I think it's a pretty weak argument for not selling it.

Don't get me wrong Travis...when I say fun/candid conversations I don't mean that I make fun of the bride, swear, say racial slurs etc. But I may at an Indian wedding comment casually to the Photographer that I'm gonna starve because I hate Indian food. Now is/was the camera rolling? I dunno but I don't feel like searching my footage to find out! I know you were being helpful (which I appreciate!) but I'd hate for you to think I have a foul mouth or something! lol~

I've also found that weddings are "emoitionally charged" events. After hanging out with the bride at her house for a few hours I sometimes find myself privvy to conversations between her and bridesmaids about how annoying her Mom was when she tried on dresses etc. Again I don't feel like searching for that footage either.

All in all I think I've decided to NOT make my footage for sale. This is a very interesting discussion!

Don't get me wrong Travis...when I say fun/candid conversations I don't mean that I make fun of the bride, swear, say racial slurs etc. But I may at an Indian wedding comment casually to the Photographer that I'm gonna starve because I hate Indian food. Now is/was the camera rolling? I dunno but I don't feel like searching my footage to find out! I know you were being helpful (which I appreciate!) but I'd hate for you to think I have a foul mouth or something! lol~

I've also found that weddings are "emoitionally charged" events. After hanging out with the bride at her house for a few hours I sometimes find myself privvy to conversations between her and bridesmaids about how annoying her Mom was when she tried on dresses etc. Again I don't feel like searching for that footage either.

All in all I think I've decided to NOT make my footage for sale. This is a very interesting discussion!

Well, saying you hate Indian food isn't something I'd worry about your client seeing. I mean, do they like EVERY kind of food? Probably not. As long as you aren't saying bad things about people, I don't see any potential problems. And like I said, the chances of the couple actually watching all of the footage is also pretty slim too.

As for what other people say on the video, don't take responsibility for them. It's not your job to police what other people are saying while you're filming. If the bride is talking badly about her mother-in-law, and she wants the raw footage, and she chooses to show it to her mother-in-law ... after you've already told her it's completely unedited ... that is HER responsibility. Don't take that on yourself. Again, I think this is really just irrational fear at work. If the bride isn't too fond of her mother-in-law, she probably isn't going to sit down and watch 10 hours of raw footage with her, right?

Either way, it's not really a big deal whether you offer the footage for sale or not. My point is simply that there shouldn't be any reason for videographers to be afraid to sell it. And my other point is that by offering it for sale, at a substantial price, you're only creating benefits for your company.

Now go do what you want! d;-)

That's a very good point you make and one I hadn't thought of. The very sight of the Rycote Softie above my Z1 often has people gagging themselves and saying, 'you didn't record that, did you?'

So if you sell on your raw, you'd have to edit it for audio too.

The private conversations are the ONLY real reason I would comb through the footage to make sure everything was "clean" before releasing hte raw footage (never the tapes, I always keep those.. I would either transfer via external HD or burn to DVD-R).

I guess I'm still confused. People keep mentioning "all of the problems" selling the raw footage can cause, but I'm not hearing any specifics. Honestly it sounds like a lot of irrational fear to me.

My objection to providing the raw footage is that doing so is potentially damaging to our industry.

I think wedding videography is in a similar place now to where digital photography was a few years ago. Photographers back then were faced with the decision as to whether to provide the raw images to their clients.

Now, it is standard practice for the majority of photographers (at least in my area) to 'give away the disc' as part of their packages. This in turn makes it more difficult for the photographers that don't do this - and it also tends to drag down the pricing. 'Giving away the disc' has become a bargaining tool or 'carrot on the stick' to seal the deal.

Clients think that they're getting more value for their money by receiving 800 raw images on a disc - but they're actually getting shortchanged. Quantity vs Quality.

Bringing this back to wedding videography ... I don't have a problem with offering the raw footage at a decent price. By decent I mean at a price that represents the value of the footage plus the time it takes to convert and burn it to a DVD. It's not about the value of the footage to you ... it's about the value of the footage to the client.

Offering the raw footage as an incentive to clients or as a way to get a leg up on the competition, or basically giving it away for $10/tape - it is this practice that is potentially damaging to our industry.

So how do you handle it when you clean your digital archives, then?

I'm (un)fortunate enough to only shoot tape or XDCAM, so I archive that media in large safe deposit boxes when I do my 'spring cleaning'. Otherwise they're kept in a fairly industrial fireproof safe. I do have a box of Hard drives in storage though for the odd footage that I don't have the original tapes/xdcam discs for.