Hey Guys,
I know this is not perfect but, here is a trailer I did for a wedding using only the truecolor preset. I am very happy with what I am able to do with this preset. If I'm doing beauty stuff outside that is non-person related, I'll use VIVidRGB. Anyway comments welcome, but this one is in the books...
Bill
http://www.vimeo.com/1311472

Hmmm? Not entirely sure that that music fits?

same old story, some get it some don't. I'm tired of worrying about about whether the music mystically "fits" or not. I have no idea what that means, and more importantly, I have no idea what fits or what doesn't. I found a new piece and tried to use it. What about the preset? I thought it looked pretty good. I was concerned about the "softness" and the "blue cast" that I had heard about, but didn't see any except you know when the door opens inside and all of that. Let's keep on topic.
Bill

I thought the colors looked good, I didn't really notice any blue cast. Some of the interior shots felt a tad blue but I believe that was a white balance issue with the mixed lighting, impossible to avoid. And I thought the music fit very well for a cinematic wedding trailer. I would like to see a more aggressive color grading for a piece like this, the music demands it! But that would defeat the purpose of seeing the Trucolor preset. Nice Work.

yeah,
You know I think color grading may be the nex thing that I learn. I think though, that once I start charging and receiving a premium for my work it will be necessary. Right now I am performing more of a service than an art form :) I know it is cyclical. Thanks
Bill

Nice clip. Trucolor seems to be a good preset for wedding work. I have used it for the last couple of weddings that I have done and am impressed with the results. The best part is how natural the skin tones are. I used Panalook2 previously and always felt theatfaces looked a bit too red. Some have complained about the blue cast, but I don't see it in your clip, or in my footage either.

I liked it Bill! .. except for one shot - as they walk down the aisle they're just moving too fast. Seems like they can't wait to leave - could that be slowed to advantage?

Bill you said, "comments welcome." So don't get mad when people comment or criticize your video.

I made a short clip that I posted on this forum and here's what Steven Dempsey said about it: "I felt the music was way too big for the shots. I imagined people engaging in battle in slow motion with lots of special effects and action. What you were shooting here had a much more delicate feel and I think you should chose music that speaks to that."

I think that is what we mean when we say the music might not "fit."

But Russ,
Here's the issue. I don't know how to make it fit, or what that means. Secondly I was looking for comments on the preset, not necessarily the clip. "It doesn't fit" is way too vague to be helpful... The spirit of the comment is just as important as the content. Brides love the battle music and so do I. I have found my work to be well received by brides and not so much by videographers, so I am sensetive when post on forums.
Bill

I think the music fits fine. There is a bit of irony here. This track is actually the same track from the boxing show "The Contender". Hell I might use this track in my wedding video in a few months lol.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5261091609409907186&ei=kAl3SMijI4ym4QLE7emECw&hl=en

Hey Bill, This definity told a story and was well done. Being brand new to Video, I can appreciate the value of such well done productions. Seeing this demonstrates to me what it should look like, if that makes any sense? As for the music fitting??? Well, I thought it was good.
Am I to assume there is a full version of the Wedding you are doing or going to do for the couple? I bet they are indeed happy judging by your trailer.
Thanks for sharing and at the same time teaching newbies like me what it should look like.

Bill, you made a very good trailer. The TrueColor preset worked very well to give natural looking skin tones. TrueColor is probably one of my favorite presets and I used a tweaked version on a regular basis.

I'm am sure that your client will be more than pleased with your video. After all, they've seen shaky consumer cam footage and your video is in a completely different league. However, if you don't want your video critiqued by those who know a little something about video, don't post it on this forum.

to be fair, Bill was asking for comments related to the preset.

Music is very subjective - in this case, I think with the tongue in cheek battle ready trailer approach, it's isn't so out of line. And if the clients are really liking it, then it's working.

I watched 'There will be blood' thinking - at times, this music is off the wall, and on occasion felt like a sound track from the next theatre was getting mistakenly inserted. And yet it was touted for it's unique approach to the composing.

Having said that, I think it's great that we have a space where we can get feedback from so many knowledgable people. And if someone wants to comment on music, editing, lighting etc then it should be encouraged and no one should be getting defensive on either side.

As with anything, you take the comments, and then make your own decisions on the final work as it is yours. I find, coming from a design background, that if more than a few people point out something as confusing, or awkward in some way, then I give it close attention.

Trish

same old story, some get it some don't. I'm tired of worrying about about whether the music mystically "fits" or not. I have no idea what that means, and more importantly, I have no idea what fits or what doesn't. I found a new piece and tried to use it. What about the preset? I thought it looked pretty good. I was concerned about the "softness" and the "blue cast" that I had heard about, but didn't see any except you know when the door opens inside and all of that. Let's keep on topic.
Bill

OK Bill, I think the music sounded like something out of the 'The Oman'. Same old story? Maybe the same old story for you because you keep picking the wrong music!
"I have no idea what fits and what doesn't..." - obviously.
"Any comments welcome..." - obviously not.

Phil, Russ,
My problem with that particular comment was that it was vague and seemed subjective. I don't mind comments about things that I understand no matter how negative, but the same old story is that music is subjective. I can use all of the Thomas Newman and Jim Brickman and stay safe and always be applauded, or follow my gut on things and sometimes step out of what some people subjectively think "fits" I am where I am today from using negative comments where I could understand waht they mean and how to improve. Ironically, the end result is that our target audience sees about %30 of what we see. We spend so much time trying to please each other that the true point is left behind. I love a great discussion, but if there's a point to a negative comment, please jsut try to make it helpful. I was however, looking for comments on the preset. Sorry I was vague on that point. and Phil, there is no wrong music.
Bill

Hey Guys,
I know this is not perfect but, here is a trailer I did for a wedding using only the truecolor preset. I am very happy with what I am able to do with this preset. If I'm doing beauty stuff outside that is non-person related, I'll use VIVidRGB. Anyway comments welcome, but this one is in the books...
Bill
http://www.vimeo.com/1311472

Bill, I think your music choice SUCKS!



Just kidding. You know I like battle/epic/_________ music and you are right that brides love it too. That is who we are there to please. I'd just let the music comments roll off shoulder and continue to do what you do and filter out comments you weren't looking for. All these guys do great work and on different levels and different types...... Anyways, not beating a horse here, trying to give you support. :)

As far as the preset, this I think it looks really good. REALLY! You know my initial thoughts on it from back some time ago. I have never played with it again... thought I may do so now after seeing that. I know it won't match my Sony's, but I'm about to dig a grave for those puppies soon. ;)

... there is no wrong music.

Oh yes there is... usually when the CLIENT picks the music! :D Man oh man! I believe the majority of clients need musical guidance. It seems as though they choose stuff they've heard on someone else's wedding video years ago & feel that's what it's supposed to be. I think if the situation where the client wants to choose music, they should actually choose something they LISTEN to & fits their personalities. I've done far too many edits where I scratch my head in disbelief saying to myself "Surely they don't really listen to this crap!" :)

I've done far too many edits where I scratch my head in disbelief saying to myself "Surely they don't really listen to this crap!" :)

Me too Bill. And I get to thinking how come they like my style of editinga and shooting when our musical tastes are so far divorced? (Can I use that word here?) Sometimes I'd like to do a same edit, different music DVD, to show them - but alas, there's never time in life.

tom.

Phil, Russ,
and Phil, there is no wrong music.
Bill

What?? There is such a thing as wrong music and this is a perfect example. Do you put music on a lower level of importance than visual aesthetics? You can't take the soundtrack for Braveheart and switch it with The Terminator and expect no one would notice. If you say music is subjective, then you must say your image quality is subjective and therefor your entire production is so too.

One can't just film something and slap any music to it and expect it to work. Do you think E.T would be what it was without John Williams?
I liked your shots, but the music does not reflect the feel of the images. The music is too big for the current edit of the video. If you want to keep the music, then it might help to use a lot more slow motion shots and give us some black and white imagery too.

Treat music as 50% of your final product, your beautiful shots and story deserves it.

No such thing as the wrong music??!! LOL!!

Jaws - "the shark approaches,the terror builds....queue the banjo music!"

Guys,
This thread has gotten way off topic. Sorry for the derailment and the defensiveness. Thanks everyone for the comments. Jerome is right, we all need to move on. It is great that those of us here can have this type of heated discussion based on the fact that we all do quite a bit of work. This has been rare moment of drama here on DVinfo. Kindof exciting.
Bill

Guys,
This thread has gotten way off topic. Sorry for the derailment and the defensiveness. Thanks everyone for the comments. Jerome is right, we all need to move on. It is great that those of us here can have this type of heated discussion based on the fact that we all do quite a bit of work. This has been rare moment of drama here on DVinfo. Kindof exciting.
Bill

Oh I was only joshing with you!

Now then,on topic, I thought the colours looked great. The whole thing was very good,professional.





.......just not sure about the music ;o)

I shot another wedding this weekend with Trucolor and got to test out it's low light abilities. The ceremony was in an old stone church, very dark with heavy stained glass windows. Most light came from the chandeliers overhead. To make matters worse, the church was very strict on videography and we would be banned to the balcony during the ceremony. I was quite concerned how it was going to look and I didn't want to push the gain too high. I set the gain to +3db and, as I was shooting 24f, I set my shutter speed to 1/24.

The results were excellent. I was allowed to shoot from the back of the church during the processional. It was very dark there but I got nice footage. Even zoomed all the way during the ceremony, the image held up. Colors were right on, very natural. At +3db gain, noise is not a factor. The only change from the Trucolor default settings is that sharpness was increased to -5.

and Alan,
The thing that has amazed me about the Trucolor is the ablility to adjust in post. I mean I can really crank the levels without any real degredation in the image. I shot this one in a n old catholic church, and you can see my position. I can tell you that I shot it at 6db and was able to adjust the levels to get a nice image without introducing alot of grain. I was in 60i and at 1/60.
Bill

Gentlemen's code of online forums: If you're going to post your personal work online and put yourself in a position in which random people critique it, do not be rude when you're defensive-- unless it's warranted. In this case, music critiques did not warrant rudeness on behalf of the original poster.

Hi Bill,

In your original post you said you were looking for feedback on your trailer. From your other posts i know that you wanted to know more about the preset you used but in my opinion it is impossible to watch this and not get distracted by the bad choice of music.

There is definitely right and wrong music to use for and edit and i'll try to explain why. When editing a video it is a whole audio and visual experience and it's all about telling a story. Your audio is part of that story as well. If the majority of people closed their eyes and you asked them what kind of video they think goes with your music they would not say wedding.

The track is too powerful and strong for a wedding. The beating drums in the background are reminiscent of an ancient armies call to war. The string instruments strokes are very violent and not something suited to a wedding. The track in in a minor key which are used to create songs and music that is sad or solemn, and which is also used in the funeral march by Choplin.

Make your music "fit" better by using faster tempo tunes in a major key for active happy videos, or slower tempo major key tunes for happy less active videos. For sad depressing stuff use a minor key tune and for sad or bad stuff with alot of action use minor key with a faster tempo. Some countries interpret music differently, but with the spread of western music to all parts of the world most people have the same perception of music

Geesh! I wished people would drop this whining about the music bit. This is a TRAILER for godsakes! Get over it. Plus as stated before in several posts, he wasn't looking for music criticism, editing criticism, etc., he was only asking what people thought of the preset, nothing more, nothing less.

Geesh! I wished people would drop this whining about the music bit. This is a TRAILER for godsakes! Get over it. Plus as stated before in several posts, he wasn't looking for music criticism, editing criticism, etc., he was only asking what people thought of the preset, nothing more, nothing less.

I am not whining Bill, I am just trying to help the other Bill out by giving him tips on how to selected music that fits. Its constructive criticism and I hoped would be of benefit to him. If I post my work online i feel like I have got a result if someone finds fault with it and tells me how to fix it.

But it's all subjective anyway.

I didn't feel the music was as bad as many are making it out to be, for what the piece was intended for. By the way, there's more non-minor chords in that score than there are. Listen again. It's a score for triumph! Not death & destruction :)

Guys,
this really is a dead topic. I appreciate the interest, but we've all kissed and made up a week ago. btw the bride loves the piece, and called me the other day just to make sure it gets on her final DVD. You guys go do something productive now, this is over.
Bill

Hey Bill,

Quite the nest you stirred up with this one :) I know it's all over but I had to pop my 2 cents worth in.

In all my future edits I'm planning to reverse the music track so it plays backwards - take that subjectivity! ;)

Regarding the preset, your footage looked quite good - skin tones, exposure and white balance looked spot on. Some advanced colour correction would really kick things up a notch, you've definitely got good quality footage to start with.

Cheers,

Matthew.

Stick a fork in this thread, 'cuz it's done.