panasonic tape stock AY-DVM63PQ. Canon XH-A1 cameras.

The first straw:
2 camera shoot. Camera 1 footage of 1st act (1 hr long) almost totally unusable. All drop outs. Horror tape stock. Loaded tape 2 for second act and no drop outs. Not the camera's fault but the stock. Had to edit Act 1 from only 1 camera.

2nd straw- Loaded 83 minute tape, only to find that the tape stopped running in the middle of the shoot around 65 minutes! Imagine my suprise. Looked at the tape and it was at the end of the reel. A 63 minute tape mis-labeled as 83 minutes!! Luckily the other camera covered the show.

After this, I changed brands to Sony HDM series stock. No problems since. Before these two stories, I have experienced more than normal "hits" when using Panasonic tape.

David, I am in the same situation, same tape, same camera,
2 tapes from 2 different shoots unusable, trying to salvage the tapes : ((

Just to be fair and balanced.
Two JVC dv500 cameras. Hundreds of video shoots over several years. Panasonic MQ 83 & 63 and 63 AMQ, all mixed together. All sucessful shoots. Never a problem.
Perhaps it was a bad batch in circulation. Would love to hear from others.
Allen W.

I quit using them. Had the same problems with just the regular Sony VX2100's. I use Sony tapes now and no problems.

I know that Sony advises against using the 80 minute tapes on their pro cameras. Evidently the thinner tape is more likely to stretch and create problems.

I use Panasonic's AMQ tapes and have never had a problem with my A1.

I was told to not use Sony tapes with the Canon Dry Tape System since the Sonys are Wet Tapes.

Did you hear that from their support?
Is it really true? Anyone else can confirm this?

My friend has a XH-A1 and wants to know what is the best tape for his camera.
Would Sony be bad then?

I was under the distinct impression that Canon-branded HDV cassettes were actually OEM'ed by Sony.

If you fast forward an 83 minute tape in a Canon XL H1, then rewind it, it will stop before you get to the start of the tape. You will need to press rewind again to get to the start of the tape.

I only tested this once, but these were my results. I assume that this is a safety mechanism to prevent the rewind from running too long.

I would be interested if you footage starts at the beginning of the tape, or in the middle. If so, then the tape was not fully rewound.

Interesting. I've been using Panny 63s and some 83s for years in Sony PD150-170 DSR250 and JVC5000 with only an occassional dropout. Very occassional.

Don

Chris,
I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case, but when buying tapes, I was told that by several sources, including the guys over at B&H. Didn't really find a reason that they would give me the false information since it was between two identically priced tapes...but I'm not an expert on the subject, so I've followed that advice ever since.

Well I've just finished filming series of 6 shows with 2 xh-a1s and i used mixture of pana
AY-DVM83SQ and AY-DVM63AMQ and I must say results were very poor, with at least one drop out on each tape. 6 tapes per night used so im not very happy. some of the 63AMQ tapes had 3 drop outs on the tapes. all recorded in HDV.
Never again..head clean and over to sony tapes, perhaps they are more expensive for a reason? lesson learned.

I was under the distinct impression that Canon-branded HDV cassettes were actually OEM'ed by Sony.

I believe this correct. I've was told by a Canon rep to use Sony tape. (This of course before Canon started branding their own.)

And I was told by Canon NOT to use Sony tape. But this was four or five years ago, so maybe it's changed. Again, this goes back to the 'wet/dry' issue, and the Canon rep in the service department in Irvine told me Sony was wet, and to use a 'dry' brand.

I shoot Panny exclusively.

In all honesty, I believe that nobody, be it manufacturers, reps, users, etc. really knows a definitive proven answer to "which tape to use with X camera" or "the wet vs. dry" thing, or "clean heads before first use" questions, all of which have been beaten to death with a stick over the years. Everyone has their own opinions.

It all boils down to what works for one individual and stick with it. Some have good results with one manufacturers brand, while others may have horror stories.

I never liked to talk about politics or religion... they're just too argumentative and I think I'll add tape to that mix. :)

Just throwing my 2 cents in here: I use the Panasonic Advanced Master Quality tape with my XH A1 cam. Never had an issue, ever. Of course I bought the camera brand new and it has never seen any other type of tape. Prolly been through 20-30 Panny AMQ tapes.

I work at a college where students check out our cameras and provide their own tapes. I was somewhat concerned about the whole wet/dry issue and whether or not we needed to specify what tapes they could use. After some research, I discovered that the wet/dry issue is no longer an issue--advances in technology have virtually eliminated the problems from mixing tapes. So we just let our students use whatever tapes they like. That said, it is usually best to find one kind of tape you like and stick with it.

After some research, I discovered that the wet/dry issue is no longer an issue--advances in technology have virtually eliminated the problems from mixing tapes. .


Care to share your research? A white paper from a manufacturer perhaps? Just curious. Cause I'm not hearing that from Reps I talk to.

Care to share your research? A white paper from a manufacturer perhaps? Just curious. Cause I'm not hearing that from Reps I talk to.

Care to share what the Reps have told you?

I started out using Panasonic AMQ tapes when I got the XH A1 and had no problems at all. Then suddenly on a shoot with two XH A1s, we had 5 tapes out of a box of ten with serious dropouts. Then I had no problems for a few tapes, and suddenly another major bunch of dropouts.

I switched to Sony PHDVM63 tapes, at nearly twice the price, and have had no problems at all.

I have shared in numerous threads. But I'll repeat the main comment given me by TWO Canon reps on the phone. "Don't use Sony Tapes, they're wet. Use only dry tapes". Both comments were made regarding servicing an XL2 for problems. Comments were made about two years ago.

This is similar to comments others have reported getting 'conflicting' statements from manufacturers and reps. Is it 'reliable'? Thats why there are numerous conflicting threads regarding this. I started one saying "Where is ACTUAL listing of which tapes are wet and which are dry? " And never got a definitive answer.

Which is why when someone says they've done research, and come up with an answer, I'd LOVE to see it.

I'd bet money that if you can find a definite answer you'll find that the tapes Canon sells are made by Sony.

Here is One stupid question, but what do you all mean by "Drop Outs" ?

Now why I'm asking is because I followed the advice of Panasonic tapes and have used the AMQ's for two years and this last year I noticed that I would have spots in taping that would just go plain black screen and then it would start playing what I recorded. This happened often this past spring with these tapes , so I wondered if this is what you mean by drop outs....

No idea what that could be. A dropout in HDV is basically a freeze frame (not black), no audio as well, that lasts a minimum of 15 frames. On average it can be just a little over a second in my experiences.

I'll be at a media and drive technology conference in a couple of weeks. Panasonic/Sony etc usually send a few tape media researchers and engineers each, as do Maxell, Fuji. Imation, etc.

Conference is related to tapes (and disks etc) used in the information storage industry, not video, but I'll see if anyone there has specific experience with the DV tape end of the business and ask them.

I've been using PQ tapes for years without any problems. one drop out per tape isn't that uncommon. if you guys are complaining about that, you never shot beta Sp or... 3/4 :(

AMQ's have been better then PQ's for HDV. HDV is much more picky then DV. drop outs aren't just total loss of picture or sound, they are little colored blocks of hash in the image. sometimes just for a frame, sometimes worse.

FWIW, it appears that at least some JVC tape is made by maxell.

last week I ran some consumer grade Fuji tape thru the camera as it was supplied to me. first tape has a TC break or two, the rest went fine. I guess the camera had to adapt.

in the case of the original poster losing the first tape, sounds like a head clog started in the beginning and just ran thru the tape. hard to say if the heads where already clogged when that tape went in so its hard to prove anything there. this could of happened with almost any tape.

as for sony, I shot some of their consumer tapes in an emergency, and they were totally loaded with drop outs, a real nightmare. even their more expensive tapes I've not been happy with.

bottom line is to just quit shooting tape, and the problem solves itself. I plan to leave tape sometime next year.

just used 30 sony premium dv tapes dvm60pr3 £1.80 / tape . not one drop out..which just goes to show the most expensive isnt always the best.

Same story as start of thread.

I even pre captured this particular tape to ascertain if it had bad spots on it for drop outs. It worked fine twice before the shoot (no drops)...seemed to shoot fine on the shoot (time code all the way to the end)...now it's not capturing and getting stuck.

Some recovery:
I have tried switching the tape to a different cassette (only for nimble fingered - not for weak hearts) and that has allowed me to recover some footage. Appears to be the cassette and not the tape.

I will be trying Sony after this. This is starting to cost me money and reputation....I take it this doesn't happen with direct digital recording to hard drives. ?????

My previous post stated that I switched the cassette. I have made one additional change to the cassette, if you open the cassette, between the rolls on one half of the classette "clam shell" there is a small plastic piece that is supposed to allow the reals to move only when inside the camera...I removed it and recaptured the tape...guess what ...almost all the footage was there and almost no dropped frames...there were some; apparently this real stop went bad at near the end of the tape causing the tape to drag and hence causing dropped frames. Additionally when I tried to capture the tape, this 'real stop' was still bad and causing additional problems on capture.

I am either going to switch brands or start removing these 'real stops'.

Does anyone know a contact at panasonic that I could tell this to?