I'd very much like to have a thread devoted to all the issues surrounding editing V1 footage, from both the hard drive and from tape. My personal interest is in FCP, but I've had interesting questions, comments and thoughts from friends editing on Vegas, Avid DVExpress, etc.

I'm going to kick it off with a project I'll be shooting and editing next month. I'll be traveling to several cities in two countries and shooting extensively with the V1. I'll also be getting footage shot from Panasonic's P2 720P and an as yet unnamed HD 1080i camera from several OTHER countries. I'll be editing all the footage together in FCP using the Pro Res HQ CODEC.

I'll be posting versions on YouTube. Thanks to YouTube's adoption of H.264, high resolution pieces look great for review. I'll also be upgrading past V1 projects as well.

Let's talk editing and post, and try to keep it together. More soon.

Well, with Vegas Pro 8 there are no issues that I have come across. I previously used Premiere Pro 2 but the rendering problems and occasional crashes made me shop around. Before investing a lot of money into FCP plus the Mac dongle, I tried Vegas and Liquid and quickly fell in love with the power and ease of Vegas. Again, it is super stable and I never have any problerms with the Sony footage inside Vegas. Note, I am in Europe and shoot mostly 25p.

As for codecs for the web, I don't see any difference in quality yet between H264 and VP6, but using FlixPro and two pass encoding I do get smaller file sizes. Clients that pay for bandwidth usage appreciate little things like that!

agree with ken entirely - having used avid / edius, and a little time on fcp. be aware there ARE some problems floating around, but all workaroundable apparently. from my pov vegas is rock solid, and intuitive (or counter depending where you're coming from), that using it is a joy compared to the rest.

shooting pal 50i - haven't felt any desire to go 25p when the pics in 50i are so beautiful and tweakable.

leslie

I would be interested in your experience of using the V1 with FCP. I use Vegas on Win XP but am going to move to the Mac platform. Nothing against Vegas but i see advantages on the Mac because of tight integration with specific h/w products, eg, they specify which graphics cards work with Matrox MXO/colour calibration on the Apple 23" cinema display. FCP also comes with Color, nuff said. However, I do think Vegas drop on timeline approach and mixing of all kinds of footage very easy to use.
One thing Vegas 8 still does on my machine is crash with no warning or error pop-up at all - just disappears. But lets not forget it is WAY cheaper than FCP.

Post us any feedback Justin.

Next week I'll be shooting in LA, San Fran and British Columbia. I'll be using the 30P setting at 3 sharpness. It's my personal fave on the VU1...though I might be different from many of you in this circumstance.

I'll also be integrating footage from P2 Panasonic rigs.

I plan on using the Pro Res HQ CODEC.

I'll be finishing to a variety of different formats using Mac's Compressor.

This client loves seeing everything on YouTube HI - RES, so as I go I'll post versions there...and let you know too.

Feel free to bookmark now: www.youtube.com/zimfilm

Ken, if you use the H.264 CODEC with YouTube, you'll get the option of watching your piece in "high quality." At least on YouTube, H.264 rules the day.

Here's an invaluable link (and an introduction to Compressor for thse non MAC users...)

http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/you_tube_redux_gary.html

Hi Justin,
me too, I could use The V1U with footage from a Panasonic HVX200A.

Do you think they can match in FCP ?
Which is the best frame rate to use ?

Hey Justin, thanks for the link. Very informative!

Hey Justin, thanks for the link. Very informative!

V1 users... Is anyone editing on premiere pro CS3? I'm currently editing with Liquid which is driving me crazy with its poor media management. I'm surprised AVID didn't improve on that aspect of Liquid, considering AVID has one of the best media management iin its media composer line. Plus, its going to be another year before AVID introduces its upgrade to Liquid (or I should say replacement), and I can't wait that long. I mentioned premiere pro CS3 because I still own an old copy of premiere, which would enable me to get it for the upgrade price. I was just wondering if anyone is using premiere pro CS3 and if its any better than its previous versions. What I'm after is this: Is it more stable than previous versions, and how well does it work with the V1 HDV flavors (1080i 60 and 1080p 24)?

Based on a sample size of one (i.e. me!) I find CS3 ultra-reliable. That is, it hasn't crashed once for me in the three months I've been using it.

CS2 crashed regularly, and Premiere Elements 4 crashes at the blink of an eye on the same PC as this. All I have to do there is open titler and press a button and it may or may not die, depending how lucky I am.

I still end up pressing CTRL+S all the time in CS3 to save every couple of minutes, but it hasn't been needed yet. I do have the latest service pack installed, which may have helped.

That's just me - I can't guarantee anyone else will be as crash-free!

every man to his own poison. mine's vegas, having worked with avid, premiere, and a little on fcp (not versed enough to comment other than i prefer vegas when working on the same sort of edit / material i usually work with).

but since the first drink is on the house, well, 30 day trial, give them all a whirl - (let's face it, there's nothing worse than someone trying to defend / sell / bitch about / praise their nle cause that's the one THEY bought).

leslie

This may or may not be on topic, but how many of you use Cineform in your workflow and how has this affected the speed/reliability of your NLE?

This may or may not be on topic, but how many of you use Cineform in your workflow and how has this affected the speed/reliability of your NLE?

interesting question. vegas comes with a 'cut-down' cineform intermediary, which i've never used. i did think about neo, but so far have ben editing m2t's on the t/l quite happily without any problem. then again, most of my work is doco, so i'm not pushing the envelope too much.

just did a chromakey presentation (green screen), and was pleasantly surprised with the ease and quality of the result without 'bumping' the original m2t's.

leslie

Okay, just got back.

I shot 30P on the VU1 with a sharpness of 3 100% manually and captured into FCP using the new ProRes Codec (not HQ). I'm editing in a ProRes 1080i timeline as I'm going to be mixing in VX100 SD and Panasonic 720P from other sites.

I did a number of tests with this pipeline and then found this, which confirmed everything I'd discovered, which was nice.

http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/capture_hdv_prores_fw_balis.html

In any event I'm very impressed with the initial footage. it takes up a heck of a lot more room on the old hard drive, but is smooth and looks great. I shot in LA, San Fran and Vancouver under a variety of conditions.

As soon as I have something to show, I'll let you know and you can comment and critique.

Okay, just got back.

I shot 30P on the VU1 with a sharpness of 3 100% manually and captured into FCP using the new ProRes Codec (not HQ). I'm editing in a ProRes 1080i timeline as I'm going to be mixing in VX100 SD and Panasonic 720P from other sites.

I did a number of tests with this pipeline and then found this, which confirmed everything I'd discovered, which was nice.

http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/capture_hdv_prores_fw_balis.html

In any event I'm very impressed with the initial footage. it takes up a heck of a lot more room on the old hard drive, but is smooth and looks great. I shot in LA, San Fran and Vancouver under a variety of conditions.

As soon as I have something to show, I'll let you know and you can comment and critique.

Very interesting article, but I have a question. The article mentions that apple pro-res codec automatically chooses what the HDV flavor is based on the content. Is the codec able to recognize the V1's 24p/25p/30p, or is it going to capture it only 1080i and not convert. In other words, will pro-res work with the V1's progressive modes, considering the V1 wraps them in a 1080i envelope.

well, you can capture natively now too:

Sony HVR-V1 HDV Tape-Based Camcorder Support

Final Cut Pro 6.0.2 is compatible with the Sony HVR-V1 HDV camcorder, which is capable of recording 1080p24, 1080p25, and 1080p30 footage. You can capture natively or capture to either the Apple Intermediate Codec or the Apple ProRes 422 codec. You can also output back to the Sony HVR-V1 camcorder using the Print to Video command.

To natively capture 1080p25 or 1080p30 footage, you should use the HDV 1080i50 and HDV 1080i60 Easy Setups, respectively. Your footage will retain its progressive scanning even though it will be stored in an interlaced format. You can capture 1080p24 footage using the 1080i60 Easy Setup, but your captured footage will retain 3:2 pull-down in this case.

For transcoded capture of 1080p24 footage, 3:2 pull-down is removed during transcoding, resulting in footage stored in the 1080p24 Apple Intermediate Codec format or the 1080p24 Apple ProRes 422 codec format. You can also capture 1080p25 and 1080p30 footage to either format, although Easy Setups are not included for these formats. In these cases, your captured footage is stored in the 1080p25 or 1080p30 Apple Intermediate Codec or Apple ProRes 422 codec format.

Here are the recommended workflows for capturing from and outputting to the Sony HVR-V1 camcorder with Final Cut Pro 6.0.2:

* 24p/60i on tape: Capture to the 24p Apple Intermediate Codec or Apple ProRes 422 codec, then output to the HVR-V1 camcorder in 24p/60i mode.
* 25p/50i on tape: Capture to the 25p Apple Intermediate Codec or Apple ProRes 422 codec, then output to the HVR-V1 camcorder in 25p/50i mode.
* 30p/60i on tape: Capture to the 30p Apple Intermediate Codec or Apple ProRes 422 codec, then output to the HVR-V1 camcorder in 30p/60i mode.

well, you can capture natively now too:

Sony HVR-V1 HDV Tape-Based Camcorder Support

You can also output back to the Sony HVR-V1 camcorder using the Print to Video command.


but what format will print back to tape?

leslie

i'm assuming 1080i.

will see soon enough...

anyone else KNOW?

Hello.

First, I shot and directed a pilot a while back and finally got a moment to get a nice Hi Res transfer to YouTube. It's broken into three parts. Each part has multiple sketches and each sketch was shot with either the Sony Z or V. The introduction and conclusion have a mix of both cameras.

I had no idea what I was doing with the cameras. Both were bought by the producers of the production and I learned on the go. It was a perfect experiment.

I edited on FCP 5 and worked with HDV natively. I used the Pro Res CODEC to prepare for final compression.

Second, I'm editing the first cut of a large project I shot with the V in two countries. I shot 9 hours - the project has to be less then 3 minutes long. I edited this one with the ProRes CODEC captured through firewire with FCP 6. This will be up in a week.

My YouTube site is: www.youtube.com/zimfilm

Look for the three part series: The Lance Profile Show.

Next week's project will be titled: CEF.

Don't confuse the Lance Profile Show Pilot with the Save the Slugs OUTTAKE sketch...which was shot on the Z.

Be WARNED - the Lance Profile Show is no holds barred sketch comedy and not for the faint of heart! :)

ENJOY!

Here are the direct links...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZA78jyb_NyY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTEh-O4h-b8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tYNI30vKWI

Well, here's the first cut. Won't be up long.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5YLw92qoyU

Used the Pro Res CODEC!

Hi,

I am interested in using Prores to capture my V1E 50i footage into FCP.

Is the general consensus that ProRes is good enough and Prores HQ is overkill for V1E footage?

thanks!

absolutely. also know that Pro Res alone uses considerably more HD space then native HDV editing on FCP, so be prepared!

I have Premier Pro CS3 and so far, it has been pretty bullet proof even though I am using an operating system that I don't care for or trust, MS Vista. But I have a Mac question. I recently worked on a project where we used 2 - V1U's and an EX1. Someone else was handling all of the editing chores. The program was edited on FCP in some hot rod Mac and everything has the latest greatest upgrades. They also had a BlackMagic breakout box that cost about $2200 (?) and they used the HDMI input on the BlackMagic to digitize using ProRes @ 1920 x 1080. But they kept having lock ups after a very short time (less than a minute). And the files they were getting were HUGE. They finally got it to work by selecting a much lower resolution which wasn't terrible in this case, since the final product was going to be SD 4 x 3. I hope to do more work with this editor but what was going on? Any ideas that I can pass along? I was surprised at all the trouble he was having with the HD footage.

Hi,
I have started to use the Apple ProRes codec to capture my V1E footage and this is what I found.

Interval recordings: I had problems capturing Interval recordings from the V1E with FCP but using the Apple ProRes codec I had no problems at all.

File size: Apple ProRes seems to create file sizes that are 4 times the size of the default HDV codec in FCP! For nearly a full tape (58.23 mins) 42.8GB in ProRes compared to 12.31GB with the default FCP HDV codec.

Another advantage to ProRes vs the default FCP HDV codec is that you can share files much easier. The default FCP codec only comes with FCP so if you want someone else to review the files they need FCP whereas the ProRes codec can be downloaded from Apple for Quicktime which means anyone can review the footage.
- Can FCE or IMovie work on ProRes material?

I have been making my own Easy Setup preferences as per these links:
Capturing HDV Into ProRes Via FireWire (http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/capture_hdv_prores_fw_balis.html)
Capturing HDV Into ProRes Via FireWire | Moviola ? Training for Avid, Apple, Adobe & AutoDesk | Production & Post Prod. Rentals & Sales | Los Angeles, Hollywood, Burbank (http://edu.moviola.com/hdv_prores#new_easysetups)

I am trying to make a setup for capturing 1080 50i with Apple ProRes.

In Audio/Video Settings:

Summary tab:
Sequence Present: Apple ProRes 422 1440x1080 50i 48kHz
Capture Preset: HDV-Apple ProRes 422
Device Control Preset: Sony HDV Firewire

In Sequence Presets Tab:
Apple ProRes 422 1440x1080 50i 48 kHz

Is this all correct? I am not sure about the Sequence Preset setting on the Summary tab and the setting on the Sequence Presets tab - they are not mentioned in the links.

On a side note I seem to have created a Easy Setup that I cannot find on my Mac - it is not in Library\Application Support\Final Cut Pro System Support\Custom Settings where the rest of the fcpre files are! Where could it be? I have tried using Finder to find all fcpre but it doesn't find it.

Brendan, from your previous post you mention the ability to share a ProRes project as a limiting factor. Just in case you hadn't seen this, Apple recently released a ProRes plugin for Quicktime Player, and now anyone who has quicktime can view ProRes content.

you can find more here : Apple - Support - Downloads - Apple ProRes QuickTime Decoder 1.0 for Mac (http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/appleproresquicktimedecoder10formac.html)

And if you're a frequent Quicktime user, you should have automatically received that update, even if you didn't know it!

Nice find.

Brendan, are you capturing directly from V1 into your Mac using firewire to prores, or a hardware interface in between, eg Matrox MX02? Thanks


I have been making my own Easy Setup preferences as per these links:
Capturing HDV Into ProRes Via FireWire (http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/capture_hdv_prores_fw_balis.html)
Capturing HDV Into ProRes Via FireWire | Moviola ? Training for Avid, Apple, Adobe & AutoDesk | Production & Post Prod. Rentals & Sales | Los Angeles, Hollywood, Burbank (http://edu.moviola.com/hdv_prores#new_easysetups)

I am trying to make a setup for capturing 1080 50i with Apple ProRes.

In Audio/Video Settings:

Summary tab:
Sequence Present: Apple ProRes 422 1440x1080 50i 48kHz
Capture Preset: HDV-Apple ProRes 422
Device Control Preset: Sony HDV Firewire

In Sequence Presets Tab:
Apple ProRes 422 1440x1080 50i 48 kHz

Is this all correct? I am not sure about the Sequence Preset setting on the Summary tab and the setting on the Sequence Presets tab - they are not mentioned in the links.

On a side note I seem to have created a Easy Setup that I cannot find on my Mac - it is not in Library\Application Support\Final Cut Pro System Support\Custom Settings where the rest of the fcpre files are! Where could it be? I have tried using Finder to find all fcpre but it doesn't find it.

v1 FireWire to mac.
What do you use?

Brendan,

Here is a fairly in-depth article on creating Easy-Setups, and walking you through each setting and the implications of each setting parameter.

http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/apple/story/how_to_get_the_most_out_of_your_easy_setup_part_1/

As for the location of your easy-setups, mine are located in the following directory:
~/Library/Application Support/Final Cut Pro System Support/Custom Settings/

Where ~/ is your root directory, and not your "User" directory.

Strange that yours are not in the same directory (as this is the default). I assume that the Easy-Setups you created do show on the drop down menu when you select Easy-Setups from the final cut menu? You might also check to see if for some reason they were written to your user directory. I also assume that you are on FCP 6.04? I also assume that you have installed FCP in the default location as well.

thanks for the tips!