I just shot a short film with the XDCAM EX1. Clips were transferred from the memory cards to a Macbook, using the XDCAM transfer utility, so they're wrapped in quicktime (MOV) files. We did not have the whole BPAV structure. They can be viewed on the Macbook with the XDCAM Clip Browser.

Is there a way to watch those clips on a PC? The Clip Browser doesn't recognize the files and the Quicktime Player only plays back the audio. Is there a codec I can install to view them?

First a wag of the finger. This is why one should back up the entire BPAV. The only hardship would be if you have a G5 Mac which can't run ClipBrowser. Even then you can backup 8GB cards although there'd be no way to split 16GB cards.

That EX .MOV is tied to the codec in Final Cut Pro. Not only can't Windows Play it but Macs without FCP 6.0.2 and up can't play it either.

With Compressor you could encode it to another codec (with some loss of quality).

One thing I don't anyone has yet mentioned on this forum anywhere (AFAIK) is that you CAN EXPORT BACK TO .MXF from FCP using XDCAM Transfer.

In FCP, select clip or sequence.
Select File/Export/Sony XDCAM
It'll export the clip/sequence to MXF.

Now that means the playback computer must be able to playback MXF.

BTW VLC can playback the .MP4 but without audio. I haven't tested reliably with .MOV or .MXF (which work on my system) since, with FCP on my system, I'm not sure if the codec is "assisting" playback.

VLC can playback the .MP4 but without audio. I haven't tested reliably with .MOV or .MXF (which work on my system) since, with FCP on my system, I'm not sure if the codec is "assisting" playback.

VLC does not use external codecs, they're "selfcontained" in the application.

George/

Then the good news is that I can confirm VLC will play the MXF file with audio.

So to get .MOV wrapped to something that can play on non FCP 6.0.2 and up computers (both Mac and Windows).

Export those .mov using File/Export/Sony XDCAM from FCP and it'll create an MXF file that can be played in VLC. MPlayer also worked.

i have a fairly powerful dell xps notebook and using VLC on a 1080-24p MXF clip of 37 minutes (9+gb), the playback with audio was poor with a lot of distortions, pauses, etc.

the MOV version on the macbook pro ran errorlessly.

paul






Then the good news is that I can confirm VLC will play the MXF file with audio.

So to get .MOV wrapped to something that can play on non FCP 6.0.2 and up computers (both Mac and Windows).

Export those .mov using File/Export/Sony XDCAM from FCP and it'll create an MXF file that can be played in VLC. MPlayer also worked.

Tested on Dell XPS400 Pentium D 2.8GHz Windows XP SP2 and MXF plays back smooth as silk with VLC. 1080p30 file.

One thing I don't anyone has yet mentioned on this forum anywhere (AFAIK) is that you CAN EXPORT BACK TO .MXF from FCP using XDCAM Transfer.

In FCP, select clip or sequence.
Select File/Export/Sony XDCAM
It'll export the clip/sequence to MXF.

Now that means the playback computer must be able to playback MXF.

BTW VLC can playback the .MP4 but without audio. I haven't tested reliably with .MOV or .MXF (which work on my system) since, with FCP on my system, I'm not sure if the codec is "assisting" playback.
I have literally just gotten off the phone with a client and we are having the same problem. So let me get this straight. If I export from FCP as an MXF my client will be able to edit on his PC using Edius?

If I export from FCP as an MXF my client will be able to edit on his PC using Edius?

I believe only Edius Broadcast 4.6 (and newer) support editing EX footage directly.

All Edius NLE's support MPEG-2 and QuickTime editing, so you could export from FCP in one of those formats instead.

George/

I believe only Edius Broadcast 4.6 (and newer) support editing EX footage directly.

All Edius NLE's support MPEG-2 and QuickTime editing, so you could export from FCP in one of those formats instead.

George/

Thanks George. We established that my client has Edius Broadcast. I uploaded a short clip in MXF to my ftp and it worked. I have just spent the last few hours converting over 300 QT files into MXF for the edit tomorrow. Wish me luck!

Key is that the file is being re-wrapped from MOV to MXF and there's not another round of compression. It's a round about way to go from MP4 to MOV to MXF on Mac/FCP but it works.

I'm surprised that no one else has mentioned this but I only just figured this out myself. Leave to Sony's documentation to obscure what could be an important feature for moving file from Mac to Windows.

Key is that the file is being re-wrapped from MOV to MXF and there's not another round of compression. It's a round about way to go from MP4 to MOV to MXF on Mac/FCP but it works.

I'm surprised that no one else has mentioned this but I only just figured this out myself. Leave to Sony's documentation to obscure what could be an important feature for moving file from Mac to Windows.

Why not download and install a Win QT Player on a PC? It's free.

Link: www.apple.com/quicktime

XDCAM EX wrapped in MOV still needs the EX codec. MOV is a wrapper not a codec. Quicktime does not play EX natively. Only with FCP 6.0.2 and up is EX codec added (buried in the HDV Quicktime codec I believe).

In short, if you want to play the EX file in its native form you MUST have the codec to play it.

It seems only VLC and MPlayer can handle MXF or MOV with native EX file unless one has an NLE with the EX codec installed.

There's a basic concept people need to grasp MP4, MXF, MOV are all WRAPPERS, NOT CODECs. The "essence" is MPEG2 Long GOP at the frame rate, frame size you shot with. The "essence" needs to be supported in one of the above wrappers. The wrapper support depends on the NLE amongst other things.

Why not download and install a Win QT Player on a PC? It's free.

Link: www.apple.com/quicktime

what is frustrating with all these wraps is this.

i have both pc and mac and a macbook air

the only way to play a MOV file on the macbook air is to do the extra stuff Craig wrote up or to install FCP 6.0.2 on the macbook air, which is not that great as an alternative.

without doing the extra FCP work on another MAC, that MOV file cannot be play on the macbook air's quicktime player currently.

there should be a add-on codec for installing onto mac's without having to install FCP 6.0.2


paul

The odd thing is you'll see no codec specific to the EX in the Quicktime folder. I've heard some say that it's the HDV component that gets updated when one update FCP to 6.0.2 or greater. I can't verify this though even when looking at the HDV component's package contents. There's nothing in the creation or modification date to indicate a change either.

I guess if one wanted to test this theory out one might try copying the HDV component from a system with FCP 6.0.2 or greater to a Mac's Quicktime folder that does not have FCP on the system.

I believe ClipBrowser 2.0 with the help of MainConcept will be able to rewrap and or re-encode the EX source files.

Basically there's no way (yet) to get the EX .MOV files to play on anything other than a Mac with FCP 6.0.2 and up. That's why I say making a back up of those MOVs rather than the original BPAV with MP4 is NOT a good idea.

The BPAV/MP4 is more "portable" in that they can be rewrapped to MXF or played natively depending on player, NLE, etc..

At least there's a way, albeit a few steps, to rewrap MOV to MXF with FCP 6.0.2 and up.

you're beginning to scare me as my first few jobs had been backup to hard drives with MOV files only through my macbook pro and onto 2 mirrored RAID servers.
i don't remember the mac XDCAM transfer application saving anything other than those MOV files as i now have on my hard drives.

concerned!

Before I got my Intel Mac I backed up the MOVs too.

It's easy to back up the BPAVs.
My current workflow
Clip Browser copies BPAVs to hard drive
Clip Browser splits 16GB folders at 7.9GB
Burn BPAVs to DL-DVD
BPAV to MOV using XDCAM Transfer Tool.

I then have
BPAV on DL-DVD
BPAV on hard drive (which I do delete after confirming the MOV files are OK)
MOV files on hard drive

Keep in mind thought that since I've confirmed you can export the MOV from FCP to MXF you have portable files. You'd have to import the MOV into FCP first and then export them to MXF though.

Those MXF files can be played with MPlayer and VLC cross platform. A system without FCP6.0.2 or higher would need an NLE than can handle MXF to use in such.

you're beginning to scare me as my first few jobs had been backup to hard drives with MOV files only through my macbook pro and onto 2 mirrored RAID servers.
i don't remember the mac XDCAM transfer application saving anything other than those MOV files as i now have on my hard drives.

concerned!

I exported my .mov files from FCP as MXF files for my client, which worked OK, but when we watched it back through his Edius the images looked terrible- juddering pans and severe interlacing issues on any horizontals. I am at a loss to know how to get pristine images to my client, other than down-converting to 10bit uncompressed and then burning to DVD through Studio Pro. Help!!!

If you're using the Sony XDCAM export in FCP then all you're doing is re-wrapping the files. Your client is getting them as pristine as they can be so I'd suspect an issue with the playback settings on the Edius. Keep in mind these MXF are at 1920x1080 and not XDCAM HD's 1440x1080 (assuming you're shooting 1080). The MXF is whatever your source is which can be progressive or interlace 1080 or 720 at the various possible frame rates.

If you're using the Sony XDCAM export in FCP then all you're doing is re-wrapping the files. Your client is getting them as pristine as they can be so I'd suspect an issue with the playback settings on the Edius. Keep in mind these MXF are at 1920x1080 and not XDCAM HD's 1440x1080 (assuming you're shooting 1080). The MXF is whatever your source is which can be progressive or interlace 1080 or 720 at the various possible frame rates.
I think you are right Craig. My client is mixing SD DVCAM footage with my HD footage, so I reckon it is Edius's handling of the down convert that is the issue. The only solution we have been able to come up with for my client to do the edit is for me to convert all of the footage onto DVD and then he can do the SZd edit from there.

The problem you have is that DV and DVCAM uses the opposite field dominance to most other interlace formats. DV and DVCAM use the lower field first while just about everything else including uncompressed and XDCAM HD use upper field first. So if your project is a DV project and you are importing XDCAM you will need to swap the field order of the XDCAM material. If you are using an XDCAM, uncompressed or other non DV project you will have to swap the field order of the DV material.

Continuing this thread. I have a question. I am planning on shooting using EX1 next month but haven't got the workflow yet. I've been thinking of doing it this way.

- Shot on EX1 to SxS card.
- Transfer SxS card to MacBook air with ClipBrowser software.
- Then move all clips to PC and convert to CineForm Prospect HD.

If I trasnfer the clips from SxS card to Mac with the Clips Browser software, does it automatically put the wrapper as .MOV? Can we keep them in their SxS native format (.mp4 or .mxf) perhaps?

Clip Browser on Mac does not rewrap the files.
Clip Browser 2 (when released) will allow the OPTION to rewrap or encode to many formats.

Craig. The orgininal post by Jean-Francois Robichaud said that he was using MacBook and that how he got all the clips wrapped in MOV.

"...Clips were transferred from the memory cards to a Macbook, using the XDCAM transfer utility, so they're wrapped in quicktime (MOV) files..."

So if I transfer all the clips from the SxS to MacBook does it give us an option to make them MOV or keep them in their native format?

What is their native format/wrapper in the SxS memory card anyway? Is it .MXF or .MP4?

Thanks Craig.

Format on SxS card is MPEG2 long GOP wrapped in .MP4.

On Windows, Clip Browser ca rewrap to .MXF.

On Mac, XDCAM Transfer rewraps to .MOV.

On Mac, Clip Browser copies and/or combines or splits BPAV folders. Clips remain wrapped in MP4 until XDCAM Transfer rewraps. You can now use FCP Log and Transfer Tool to import and rewrap with the proper plugin from Sony.

Clip Browser 2 will have additional rewrap and encode features for both Mac and Windows.

So.. Craig.
Are you saying that after the SxS card gets full, I can transfer all clips to MacBook, then backup the BPAV folder (or perhaps the entire folder structure for Clip Browser software) then move them to PC, I will get the native SxS wrapper which is .MP4?

Because we use Premiere Pro on the PC wth CineForm. I'm planning to convert the Format from SxS card .MP4 to CineForm .AVI without converting them to some other wrapper first (.MOV .MXF) Only .MP4 to CineForm .AVI

Or I should better buy another PC notebook instead? But that's another buying.

Copy BPAV with Clip Browser to hard drive. Use Clip Browser to split 16GB at 7.9 GB point to create smaller BPAV folder. Back up to DL-DVD

Use BPAV from hard drive or DL-DVD to input into PC just as if coming from SxS cards.

It all stays MP4.

BTW, from Final Cut Pro you can export the .mov wrapped files to .mxf if such were needed (Clip Browser on Windows can rewrap .mp4 to .mxf also).

Clip Browser 2 will allow many more rewrap types and encodes on both Mac and Windows.

So.. Craig.
Are you saying that after the SxS card gets full, I can transfer all clips to MacBook, then backup the BPAV folder (or perhaps the entire folder structure for Clip Browser software) then move them to PC, I will get the native SxS wrapper which is .MP4?

Because we use Premiere Pro on the PC wth CineForm. I'm planning to convert the Format from SxS card .MP4 to CineForm .AVI without converting them to some other wrapper first (.MOV .MXF) Only .MP4 to CineForm .AVI

Or I should better buy another PC notebook instead? But that's another buying.

Craig do you know as to when the new Clip Browser 2 will be out?

Juan Martinez of Sony said July but wouldn't be more specific than that.

Craig do you know as to when the new Clip Browser 2 will be out?

Sorry to dig up an old thread..

I am wondering if anyone has ran across a way to use ffmpeg to convert one of the mac generated mov files and have the audio work?

I have no problem extracting the video but the audio is only static. I can hear the audio in the mov file when played on the pc version of quicktime but I can't seem to find a way to get the audio extracted from the mov file using ffmpeg.

Any ideas?

Is there any reason you cannot create a new folder on the laptop - MacBook Pro in my case, and then just drag the BPAV folder into this - bypassing the clip browser?

Thats what I have been doing. I then work straight from FCP with this folder.

Is there any reason you cannot create a new folder on the laptop - MacBook Pro in my case, and then just drag the BPAV folder into this - bypassing the clip browser?

Thats what I have been doing. I then work straight from FCP with this folder.

That would work if I had the original files from the cards but I didn't shoot the stuff and the cards have since been wiped. The shooter has sent me only the mov files from his mac on a hard drive.

What I would like to do is find a way to extract the audio in the mov files so I can bring it into the pc and edit. Right now I can do this with the video but not the audio.

Otherwise its going to take shipping the files back to him and asking him to re-wrap them with the mac version of the clip browser. I would rather avoid that if possible.

I need to get some EX1 files from mac to pc, i see that i need to use the mac to export as mxf, fine, but how do i move the files ?
What i mean is a hard drive formatted on a pc can be read on a mac but a mac can't write to that hard drive, a hard drive formatted on a mac can't even be seen by a pc so how do i move the files after exporting mxf with the mac ?

There's a fair few gb of footage so i don't really want to be burning dvds for the transfer.

Sorry if i'm asking basic questions but i'm not very mac literate.

Thanks.
Paul.

Just recently found the Calibrated{Q} XD Decode is a multi-threaded QuickTime Codec(Decode Only) that enables you to view QuickTime XDCAM HD , XDCAM EX, and HDV Movies(.MOV Files Only) in QuickTime Player and other 3rd party applications that support QuickTime.

Calibrated{Q} XD Decode supports the following Apple .MOV encoded files:
HDV: 1080i30, 1080i25, 1080p24, 1080p25, 1080p30, 720p60, 720p50, 720p24, 720p25, 720p30
XDCAM HD (35Mb VBR): 1080i30, 1080i25, 1080p24, 1080p25, 1080p30
XDCAM EX: 1080i30, 1080i25, 1080p24, 1080p25, 1080p30, 720p60, 720p50, 720p24, 720p25, 720p30
XDCAM HD 422: 1080i30, 1080i25, 1080p24, 1080p25, 1080p30, 720p60, 720p50

This allows to view EX footage via QT both on Mac and PC.

Link for download and more information: Calibrated Software (http://www.calibratedsoftware.com)

Hope this helps

P.

I need to get some EX1 files from mac to pc, i see that i need to use the mac to export as mxf, fine, but how do i move the files ?
What i mean is a hard drive formatted on a pc can be read on a mac but a mac can't write to that hard drive, a hard drive formatted on a mac can't even be seen by a pc so how do i move the files after exporting mxf with the mac ?

There's a fair few gb of footage so i don't really want to be burning dvds for the transfer.

Sorry if i'm asking basic questions but i'm not very mac literate.

Thanks.
Paul.

You'll need to format the hard drive as FAT32 and then the MAC can write to it. The files will be limited to 4gig in size. You shouldn't have any EX1 files longer than this anyway since the camera breaks the files at the 4gig limit.

If you want to do the conversition on the PC side you can follow the instructions here - http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/sony-xdcam-ex-cinealta/135599-how-convert-ex1-mov-files-windows.html

To circumvent the FAT 32 limitations, go to the Paragon Software's webpage:
PARAGON Software Group - partition manager, drive backup, hard disk partitioning (http://www.paragon-software.com)

They offer a utility which lets you read and write to NTFS formatted HDs with a Mac.
Very handy, very helpful.

Hope this helps P.

Dxv5 is the CODEC required. Only Calibrated xD works so far but playback is choppy! For Mac, install Perian+ Perian XDcam on non FCP machines. Works very well on MBP.

I successfully used MacDrive 7, a Windows app that allows a Windows machine to understand a Mac-formatted (HFS+) external usb drive. With that installed I was able to use the standard Windows Explorer to drag an EX-type ".mov" file (FourCC "xdva") into an NTFS-formatted drive.

Of course, having got it there, I encountered the same troubles as others (above), namely it wouldn't play in QuickTime. More importantly, it wasn't accepted by my NLE (Sony Vegas 8.0c). I guess another possibility would be to use the CineForm codec/format, as I already use it for other purposes. Have requested a trial of the Mac version.

[Edit]: Tried using ProRes, for which a free Windows decode-only codec exists. Had success exporting it from FCP>File>Export. On Windows, imported it to NLE (Vegas) without first installing the ProRes codec and it was recognized, though the levels and colors were not what I saw on the Mac. Imperfect but good enough to work with. Tried similarly exporting to ProRes via FCS's Compressor, but the result was not recognized by the NLE.

From a 720p50 sequence (having EX footage shot as 720p50)

Tried:
FCP: File > Export > Sony XDCAM: Format=MXF

Failed with error message:
"The preset 'XDCAM EX 720p50 VBR' is not installed on this system"

I don't know if a "preset" in this context is anything I can create myself or whether it is something proprietary etc.

I already installed the various plugins from sonybiz, they were needed in order to "capture" the same 720p50 EX footage (via Log&Transfer). Seems like the ability to import doesn't guarantee the ability to export.

It may be that you can't put EX 720p50 in an MXF wrapper using FCP export. I have not tried this myself. I use ProRes files on my PC and Vegas 8 all the time and the colours are accurate.

I had no problem exporting 720p60 to MXF from FCP 6.0.5. Don't forget you must change your sequence settings to Dual Mono as stereo MXF audio is not supported.

Craig,

I have FCP 6.0.5 also. For 1280x720, the existing settings (templates/profiles) have just about everything except 50p. That is, 24p, 25p, 30p and 60p.

I ran into the MXF stereo audio issue - a very self-explanatory error message popped up. After that, I simply disabled audio in the compression settings as it was not needed anyway.

Alister,

Thank you for your reassurance that ProRes works OK with Vegas. At least that tells me my goal is achievable, and I will experiment further. For smooth editing, I had made the FCP sequence settings the same as my footage, namely "XDCAM EX 720p50". Hence to get ProRes I did not simply render to "Current Settings" and had to create a suitable setting by modifying the closest-matching existing ProRes setting. I assume that was the correct thing to do.

Regarding Levels, I will check again more carefully in case I made a mistake. One thing I do notice in FCP is that the Settings (for sequence/rendering/compression) for "Video Processing" have a "Process Maximum White as" option, default="White", other possible value="Super-White". I guess the latter allows the superwhites through rather than clipping them at 235. Keeping them is good, as they can be rolled-off to personal preference etc. in the NLE.

I have FCP 6.0.5 also. For 1280x720, the existing settings (templates/profiles) have just about everything except 50p. That is, 24p, 25p, 30p and 60p.

My FCP setup certainly has 720p50 option. It's in Easy Setup for example. Something is amiss with your system.

If there is anything wrong with my system then I'd certainly like to be sure so I can fix it. Below, I show more precisely what I experience. If any of this looks wrong, or indeed looks right, that would provide a more certain starting-point than I have right now!

I have Sony XDCAM EX footage on the timeline (in Sequence). This is how the Sequence is defined:-

FCP Browser: (Sequence) > (RightClick) > Settings:
1280x720, HDTV 720p (16:9)
...
Compressor: "XDCAM EX 720p50..."
I guess I could change that to "Apple ProRes 422" - would that be a good idea?


Next, to check what Easy Setup option has been selected for it:-
Final Cut Pro > FCP > Easy Setup:
Format: Sony XDCAM EX, Rate: 25.00 fps, Use: Custom Setup
Sequence Preset: HDV - 720p50
...

I guess the "HDV" bit confirms the previously (June 3rd, 2008, 09:51 PM) stated suspicion that this gets used for EX, as opposed to any EX-specific codec. I know I'm not the only one to have been disorientated by that.

Now I do:-

File > Export > QuickTime movie:
Click on the "Setting:" value ("Current Settings")
A list of possible settings appears. On my system, the "Apple ProRes 422" entries in that list do not include "1280x720 50p 48kHz".
Should such an item be there in a properly configured system?

Incidentally, in
Final Cut Pro > User Preferences > Render Control:
The "Codec:" value is "Same as Sequence Codec".
I see that it is possible to change this to "Apple ProRes 422 (HDV, XDCAM HD/EX only)"
Would that would be a good idea?

Make this very simple.

Create a new sequence.
Drop 720p50 clip on sequence.
A popup will ask if you want the sequence to match the clip format. Click Yes.

You really don't need to make it any more difficult than that.

Final Cut Pro /Easy Setup . . ./Use
then select 720p50.

If all you need to do is start the car you don't need to build a combustion engine.

Regarding the "Super-White" codec setting, I found an explanatory Apple Support article at Final Cut Pro: About Luminance (http://support.apple.com/kb/TA26433?viewlocale=en_US), while elsewhere it has been stated that "when “White” is selected, is that it takes the RGB “white” value of 255, and converts it to 100 IRE. If you are working on something for broadcast, this is a must. If you aren’t, and don’t care, you can set the maximum white to “Super White”, and all your 255 RGB levels will be mapped to 109 IRE.".

From this it looks like the default "White" does an implicit mapping of 16..255 to 16..235. I assume this mapping is linear (as opposed to by clipping or roll-off), in which case the levels in general would appear darker than before the mapping. On the other hand "Super-White" maintains 1:1 i.e. 16..255 to 16..255 e.g. as I want for export of the un-range-altered footage e.g. to Sony Vegas where Color Curves etc. can be used to make any kind of mapping desired, e.g. splined (non-linear) "gamma in post".

Yet another nuance of transfer from one environment to another.

Or Drop 720p50 clip on new sequence of any kind and if it the clip doesn't match the sequenced settings you'll get this popup. Select Yes.

If you need to put the foot on the gas peddle you don't need to do deep sea oil drilling.

Follow my previous instructions and you do not need to enter this by hand but here's the settings.

Craig,

Thanks for your "Make this very simple tip. That couldn't be made any clearer! That's indeed what I did with my EX footage. So I can't have got that wrong.

However my problem is not that but how to Export it as ProRes (as opposed to the "XDCAM EX" option in your image). On my system the XDCAM EX options certainly do include "720p50" but as I understand it, that is not ProRes, and when I try to Export it to ProRes (for use on a Windows PC) there is no ProRes option for "720p50".

???

you started with
I have FCP 6.0.5 also. For 1280x720, the existing settings (templates/profiles) have just about everything except 50p. That is, 24p, 25p, 30p and 60p.

Why do you want to export as Apple Pro Res?

Important rule when starting any project.
KNOW where you're going and why you're going there.
Then examine how to get there.

Apple Pro Res on Windows? Has the editor downloaded the Apple Pro Res for Windows code from Apple? If not, they will curse you using a doll and sharp needles.


Craig,

Thanks for your "Make this very simple tip. That couldn't be made any clearer! That's indeed what I did with my EX footage. So I can't have got that wrong.

However my problem is not that but how to Export it as ProRes (as opposed to the "XDCAM EX" option in your image). On my system the XDCAM EX options certainly do include "720p50" but as I understand it, that is not ProRes, and when I try to Export it to ProRes (for use on a Windows PC) there is no ProRes option for "720p50".