Dear all:

Since I do not yet have a dedicated DV recorder, I am using my XL-1s for log and capture with my NLE.

In order to maximize the lifespan of the lightsource in the viewfinder (I have the standard LCD-model), I thought about unplugging it during log and capture. I just don't want to do it without knowing that it's safe.

Has anyone been doing this for extended periods of time? Any problems, thouhts?

Any feedback would be highly appreciated!

Cheers,

Ron

No reason why you should not do this... although without the EVF plugged in, it may be difficult to monitor where you are on the tape. If you're capturing the entire tape, then no big deal I guess.

However the hours you're putting on the tape transport by using it as a deck are much more severe on it than the EVF. Your tape transport will wear out much sooner than the EVF will.

I agree with Chris. I would be a lot more worried about the wear and tear on the video transport system on the XL1s. I bought one of those cheap Sharp Digital Camcorders - the VL-WD255U - for $449 from Costco online and I use it to rewind tapes and capture video to my DVStorm. The XL1s DV tapes don't seem to lose anything being transferred from the Sharp to the DVStorm. They look great - but - I recorded a little home vid on the Sharp on the end of one of my XL1s tapes and the video was apalling by comparison. So don't expect to use the Sharp as any kind of backup or second camera. ;-)

Bill Roberts
Spokane, WA

Is there any way to be able to see the "exact" whole image you are filming without using an exterior monitor?? I was shootiing outdoors and wasn't able to hook a monitor up to my camera. I tried to keep my boom operator and pole out of the frame but when I got back to start editing -- there was the pole and even the operator in a few of the wide shots.

I know this sounds amateurish and I think there probably isn't a solution other than to learn by trial/error. A final question: Why doesn't the viewfinder show the "whole image'"??

Hi there David.

From my experiance with the XL1, it's like most other DV cams in that when you look through the viewfinder, what you see is pretty much what you'll see on the TV screen in the finished product.
What you're talking about it the area outside what will be seen on the TV screen, I think it's called Overshoot? It only appears in the Editing software, when you play it back on a TV you'll find the bits you're talking about won't be there anymore.

It caused me the same anguish the first time I saw it.

Paul

Paul is correct. What you see in the viewfinder is pretty much the full frame that you'll see on your NLE's monitor. The feature that Paul referred to is called "underscan" which enables the tiny portions outside the normal image to be displayed. Most commonly you'll find this feature on professional monitors. I'm sure that there is a useful purpose for viewing the underscan image but I've not found it in my work. In reality most of your viewers won't be able to see your footage to the full extents shown on your NLE's regular monitor.

Ken, thats the word I was looking for! Cameras that use electornic image stabilisation use that area to compensate for shake, maybe that's why it was built into the standard originally?

Paul

I agree with the replies. However, use caution when using an external monitor. I use a 5" LCD on my hot shoe, and the overshoot displayed on the monitor does not appear in the finished product. I've been burned a couple of times by putting the talent too close to the edge of my LCD monitor. I've learned to get no closer than 1/4" to the edge. I also use the viewfinder as a cross-check, since it is accurate.

Cheers, Vic

Broadcast rule of thumb is allow 10% from the edge of the picture for overscan, this also includes titles, this is the reason for the safe title area pattern in most title software.

Vic,
I, too, have been surprised when using an LCD external monitor. ("Nuts, where did THAT pole come from?!") Both my Marshall and my Varizoom seem to clip even more severely than a consumer-grade TV.

I suppose that experience builds good judgement with such matters.

Ken,

How do you like the Marshall compared to the Varizoom? I know that Ozzie likes the Marshall. I have a brand other than the Varizoom (Everfocus), but I believe it's the same monitor under a different name. The cosmetics appear to be identical to the picture of the Varizoom.

Ozzie mentioned that the focus was more accurate on the Marshall than the LCD eyepiece--I haven't noticed that much difference on the one I have.

Your thoughts.....

Vic

Vic,

Honestly the Marshall and the Varizoom appear identical to me in terms of resolution, brightness and sharpness. The Marshall came basically with no accessories whatsoever. The Varizoom came with a soft custom case and that brick of a battery.

I have a very hard time using these monitors in bright outdoor situations and really rely on my b&w head for focus. But they really do come in handy for judging framing when I can't see the viewfinder. They're both certainly lighter and more compact than my Sony portable field monitor, a real factor when I have to do most of the schlepping! <g>

I wear glasses to read only. How big is the display on the XL1s? I've seen some viewfinders that are so small glasses don't even help. My eye site is not to bad and I'am kind of hoping I can get buy most of the time without wearing my glasses.

I also wear glasses for reading only (getting old is a bear). The standard color VF on the XL1S is .7". The optional B/W unit is 1.5".

The standard VF has two settings (Near and Far) and also has a focus setting. When set to the Near setting, I can easily adjust the focus ring for a clear VF image without wearing glasses. When on the Far setting, I need the glasses but can easily read information displayed in the VF from a foot or two away.

The eyecup can also be switched for either right or left eye viewing and there is a VF brightness control although I have never messed with it.

If you haven't done so, I recommend that you download the XL1S Users Manual from the Canon website. I think Chris has a link to it somewhere. It was very helpful to me and will answer many of your questions.

Ed Frazier

Thanks for the feedback, Ken. I'd thought, if the Marshall was a lot better, I'd try it--sounds like I'll stay with the one I have.

Maybe I can spend the money on one of these spiffy new Firestore devices Chris has on the Watchdog pages!

Vic

Does anyone know how to release the XL1 viewfinder?

It is in the manual. But you unscrew the viewfinder assembly
with the big "screw/wheel" thingy. Then unplug the cable and
slide the whole unit off (disconnect the micophone first)

Push the EVF assembly off the end of the mounting rail with firm but gentle pressure. There's a detent to hold it in place; you just need to delicately push the EVF over that detent to take it off. Firmly but gently is the key.

Thanks guys!

I've never used a color viewfinder. I'm curious as to whether people find it helpful or distracting. I've heard that it's not as crisp or contrasty as most B&W viewfinders?

Thanks.

With the color viewfinder, you're seeing a small LCD display, with the resultant pixel limitations. The B&W viewfinder is basically a small TV, with a larger screen than the color viewfinder. The B&W is clearer and better for critical focusing, albeit at a *much* higher price. For work on sticks, a color LCD display like the Varizoom is a good compromise.

I second Vic's remarks. I have both the color lcd and the b&w viewfinder. Here's my take, in brief, on each.

B&W:
- All the accuracy and adjustability that you'd expect on a pro cam's viewfinder. (It actually is a pro viewfinder made by Ikegami.)
- Displays the entire image.
- Sucks power like a hungry calf. Can reduce your battery capacity by 1/3.
- Confounds the XL1s' battery level indicator.

Color LCD:
- Lighter weight.
- Low impact on battery performance.
- Underscans the true image (rather dramatically).
- Not really as tough to focus with as some reports suggest.
- Good for handheld, auto-focus work.

If I had to choose just one, I think I'd stick with the color...for the abovementioned reasons so eloquently laid out, plus when I used to shoot with a B/W VF (on a S-VHS analog cam) I lived in constant fear that my white balance would be or get out of whack. It is comforting to peer through the Canon stock VF and see that all is still well (and even better, if you want to go quick and dirty, and play with the W/B by eyeballing it, you can get reasonably close with it.)

I am a user of the Lightwave System Isolator (great item). The one thing that did make me uneasy was the strain put on the veiwfinder connector. Still no problems, but I can see the day will come. Has anyone every had a break there? Any sugestions and/or tips?

Fitz

It does seem to stretch that cable to its limits, but I haven't yet heard from anyone who claims a malfunction as a result. I recall speaking to Leslie about a year before he died, how he told me how hard he worked on that design to get every last millimeter of extension possible without over-stressing that cable. He was well aware that he was stretching it just short of its limits. It would be nice to have a short extension available from Canon USA.

P.S. -- Yes, I *have* heard of one breaking, see Adam Wakely's post below. I had forgotten about that!

Just think of the possibilities. With a long coil cord and a helmet mount.....well, that would look close to a Borg appendage, don't ya think?

Here's an obscure one--by any chance has anyone heard of an extension for the B&W viewfinder? I'm guessing the connector on the end of it is an Ikegami setup, which means it probably shows up on other of their viewfinder assemblies. Anyone?

Please read my previous post...

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=783

I read on Watchdog many moons ago that Canon would replace their wimpy viewfinders that were prone to pixel burn, with a more substantial one. I've had pixel burn on mine for about a year but havn't been able to find down time long enough to send it to Canon for a replacement.

Now that I've the time, Canon is saying they don't know of any agreement to replace the viewfinder for no charge.

Any suggestions what to do??????????????
thanks,
Bryan

Hi Bryan,

The EVF replacement program was limited to only those cameras manufactured April 1998 or earlier. The program was in effect for one year and expired in April 1999. This was supposed to give everyone who had an April 98 camera (or earlier) enough time to get the fix.

Since then, the XL1 and XL1S color viewfinders have been built differently to prevent the sunburn problem that would occur within only a few minutes of direct exposure to the sun. Although the endurance of the viewfinder is much better than the early cameras, direct sunlight should still be completely avoided as stated on the yellow warning label on each viewfinder.

If your XL1 was manufactured after April 1998, then you may be looking at paying for the cost of the repair or replacement. However if your camera is dated April 1998 or earlier and still has the old, larger-diameter eyecup opening, then you might try asking them if they'll replace it. Good luck,

I spoke to a Canon repair technition, who said if I can find the offer in print they might honor it.

Thanks Chris. While I have your ear, I'd like to thankyou for Watchdog, which I have been a lurker at for years. And now this community board is great also.

Thanks for all your effort.

At the Irvine, CA facility, get ahold of Chris Canada and see what he can do for you. Mention this board and my name. No guarantees they'll do it for free but worth seeing if you at least can get a discount. Good luck,

I'll contact him and see what he can do. Many thanks Chris

It looks as if I have somehow broken 1 of the small fingers (behind the slider mount thingy-
if u remove the mounting plate screws you'll see the 2 protrusions) that help align the viewfinder level horizontally and there doesn't seem to be an easy fix- my viewfinder now drops slightly to the left-
upon close examination it seems as if a whole new body would be necessary just to correct this problem- has anyone had this happen to them and is there a repair or Canon suggested fix........to replace the whole body to correct the droop caused by such a small protrusion (grain of rice sized).....I know the 4 screws can be tightened really tight and as horizontal as possible- but eventually even a slight bump will shift the viewfinder downwards- please tell me there's a replacement piece.......

worst part is- my cam is really babied and i can't think what caused this piece to break.....my cam has been tainted.....but I hate this droop....any suggestions??

I'm confused about the location of the broken piece. Would the Lightwave system isolator help?

Jeff

Here's a photo of the broken tabs and affected viewfinder mount......

www.jewelusions.com/brokentabs.jpg

real bummer.........doesn't seem like an ez fix is possible- anyone have any ideas?
(don't even know how it happened)

Steve

You MUST send this camera to Canon Service in Jamesburg, NJ. There is no other alternative. Contact info is on the Watchdog > The XL1 Skinny.

Chris,

what do you think Canon's response might be? The camera still works 100%- it's just the droop that kills me..being that the tabs are broken on what appears to be the main body- I can't see any other alternative to replacing the entire unit-- what do you think Canon will say? I'd hate to pay $1800 because of 2 grain-sized broken tabs...

...also how did the show go? Did you enjoy your visit up north?
(so sorry I couldn't make it- thankfully my daughter is feeling just fine- again big apologies for cancelling last minute like that- felt really bad!)

On with the show.....

Hello All,

This is my first post and I must admit up front that I'm definitly a rookie when it comes to the XL1 and film editing. So please excuse my ignorance.

I'm learning to shoot corporate video for my company. One of the things I'm often called upon to shoot is instrument displays or computer displays. One of the problems I'm experiencing is that when I frame an instrument or computer display in the viewfinder (so I'm only seeing the area of the display) I'm not really seeing what will actually appear during editing. When I capture the video there is always a larger area than what I see through the viewfinder. I know I can do cropping but it's important to have the video of the displays fill the entire 704x480. I could zoom in more, but this would be kinda guessing.

Any help would be appreciated,

Hello Doug and Welcome.

Well, here's the deal. A full frame of DV video is indeed 720pixels x 480pixels. The resolution of the XL1's standard (color) viewfinder only enables it to display approximately 80% of that area. This is pretty standard for color LCD viewfinders, btw, and one reason why you do not find them on professional cameras at this time. To see the full frame's contents while you are shooting you will need to do one of two things.

1. Buy the high-resolution b&w viewfinder for your XL1. It sells for around $1,500 and is a professional-grade Ikegami viewfinder that shows the video frame wall-to-wall.

2. Use a high-resolution, professional monitor while you are shooting. You are looking for a unit that can display the "underscan" area of the frame. Prices on such monitors can vary. For lightness of weight and low-power try Panasonic's high-res color LCD which shows the full frame, also.

But, before you spend thousands, take stock of your skills and your goals. Practice, practice, practice to get an eye for your frame and to become adept at using your tools. Also, if your material will mainly be displayed on conventional consumer televisions your viewfinder is actually showing you what viewers will see. Standard tv's clip-out 15-20% of the frame around the borders. What's left is often called the "action-safe" area of the frame, basically what your viewfinder is showing. So what you see on your computer is absolutely not what you'll get on a tv. (Presentation on the Web or other computer-related targets is a different story.)

Practice and study-up! "Kinda guessing" accurately is what separates the pro's from the putz's.

There's a red blinking symbol in my viewfinder that kinda looks like a guy in a boat with a line through it.

What does it mean?

Thanks in Advance.
Flynn

Sounds like a "No Tape" error. Check with your manual.

It appears directly to the right of the no tape error.
-Flynn

It's telling you that you need to replace your date/time battery, a Panasonic CR2025, about 75 cents at WalMart.

I found it in the manual.

Sorry to waste your time
Flynn

Ha!

This is pretty funny.....I recently shot a stage performance. 1st act was OK. Then, just prior to the 2nd act, I got the same alert. I'd also had never seen it before. I just about panicked, and examined and twisted every knob on the XL-1 trying to salvage what I thought was going to be a blown shoot!

20 year old eyes might have resolved the icon; 50+ year old eyes didn't immediately, until I finally guessed what it might be!

Cheers

Has anyone except Daniel Kohl (see http://www.dvinfo.net/canon/articles/article78.htm) ever attached a external LCD viewfinder to the XL-1, in a non-destructive way (and not using a steadycam setup)?
I find the normal viewfinder difficult to use in fast handheld action, like walking with the camera through a crowd. Holding the cam to your eye is awful and the existing EVF is just too small for seeing anything from 1 meter away.

XL1 shooters add external LCD monitors all the time. Go to the Watchdog at www.dvinfo.net/xl1.htm and choose Articles Menu. See Adam Wakely's piece under the EVF section. Also, I recommend a couple LCD monitors in the "Top Five XL1/XL1S Accessories" page also in the Articles section. Hope this helps,

Yep, it's as easy as can be. Varizoom and Nebtek both sell models that you can mount on the accessory shoe, and I believe Nebtek has an adapter that will let you use XL1 batteries to power it. It's a plug 'n play situation. No sweat, (just money). ;)

Brilliant! I just hadn't been looking closely enough! Sorry and thanks both of you!