david thanks for the feedback on this law...

it would concern me if this happened in ny, as an owner of a production company i often hire editors, designers, shooters, and writers...some months its great some its tight i could not imagine paying insurance, i propabaly would just not hire my regulars if it became an issue and i would try and find lower cost labor where i can add the insurance without going over budget

as for this particular thread going political...well lets just say if you swim with sharks long enough your going to get bitten... if the topic is california legislation, well best bet would be to delete the entire post and be done with it...

lets not kid ourselves here business and politics are very mixed together, i for one would love to here about doing business in california as i dream of moving to lake tahoe, and with that the politics of owing a video production company in california

The topic on another thread got me to wondering what type of small business insurance most 'independent' video service operators have (or should have even though they don't right now).

I imagine some sort of equipment insurance policy and then some sort of liability coverage is a minimum. Is there a small business insurance group that videographers prefer?

As long as it doesn't take over the conversation and as long as it pertains to the topic of the thread, some discussion of politics is understandable due to the nature of this thread.
If it gets out of hand, I'll say something as I did earlier on in the thread.

<<<-- Originally posted by David Mesloh : Hi Mike,

Since I am an incorporated business in California, you would not have to pay insurance costs for me. You also don't have to provide me with a 10-99 (Misc. income) form at the end of the year either.

In fact if you hire any legitimate business you would not have to provide their insurance.

This law was set-up to discourage employers from hiring "Independent Contractors" in an attempt to avoid paying taxes to the state and Federal government. Very few people are true Independent Contractors. Many times they are employees.

That being said, yes California is not an easy state to do business in. Unless of course you are a lawyer, politician, or burgler.....you know, all those guys in the trade. <grin>

David Mesloh
Independent in all ways -->>>

While part of what you say may be true, the people who are really getting hammered are the Real Estate Brokers who hire Real Estate Agents as ICs (it's legal) and now have to buy insurance on them, whether they produce or not. Same thing I do (did) with Directors and Talent.

I have the same issue if I hire a Director or Talent. They rarely are a 'business' in the classic model. And, in fact, they really couldn't be a classic model because of the permits and license requirements for operating busineses in many different cities. For those people, I have to have insurance.

I'm a newbie who is curious about the same thing. Feedback anyone?

I don't know about videographers but photographers are in the same boat and have been established far longer. I know when I went to insure my camera as a rider to my rental insurance that I was told my other option was to join the professional photography association in my region and find coverage through them.

Keith,

Did the rider to your personal insurance provide good coverage or did you get the insurance through a photographer's group?

I got the rider on my rental insurance. I didn't bother looking up the photographer's insurance because it would mean I would have to register my business and for tax purposes I prefer to just appear as a proprietor and not have to charge GST / PST (Canadian sales tax) to my clients. That in itself would have made getting the insurance more expensive than an extra hundred bucks on my insurance.

I insure my gear and the business through WEVA's insurance arrangement.

$500 a year for $50K gear coverage, $25K in the field. $1M/$3M accident insurance, covers rental gear too.

Required when I work for government agencies.

Thanks Mike and Keith. Your input was greatly appreciated.

Third party liability is first on my list, then gear (but I don't insure it, too expensive). TPL can't do without, never. One stupid mistake can cost a lifetime's payments.

<<<-- Originally posted by Dan Uneken : Third party liability is first on my list, then gear (but I don't insure it, too expensive). TPL can't do without, never. One stupid mistake can cost a lifetime's payments. -->>>

Dan,

Can you give me an example of third-party liability? Would that be a contractor you employ for a shoot doing something wrong? I understand I could personally commit acts that would incur liability but I guess I'm not seeing why third parties wouldn't be liable for their own mistakes.

Thanks.

An example is of course when your light topples over and hits an actor on the head with terrible consequences.. etc.
Anybody working for you, should also be covered. That's why I always take out a production liability insurance for a limited time (in Spain about 3% of the budget), apart from my own personal professional liability insurance.
I have a bit of an obsession with the magnitude of the TPL risk, which can be millions of dollars.

will renter's insurance, or the weva insurance covered intellectual property? or the value of projects in development?

obviously ignorant, but the data on any one computer is usually worth more than the computer hardware itself.... papers, software, etc.

any insurance that cover's this?

thank you

Intellectual property that has not been proved is very difficult to insure. Not like insuring something that already has a known market value.

I hire my crew and actors through a temp employment agency. That way they are covered by insurance, I don't have to do much paperwork and the temps are covered by my business insurance.

I ran into a huge problem today. I've been trying to get insurance for a short film I'm making... but no company will give me insurance because the script calls for a gun.

Keep in mind, I have no intentions of firing blanks or anything like that. I'm just using nonfiring replicas. That doesn't matter though. And it isn't just one insurance company saying this -- it's everyone in my area (northern NJ/New York City).

Has anyone encountered a problem like this? I need to find a company that will give me insurance despite the use of a gun. it's too important to the story to take out.

Thanks

Well that would be the limit, taking the gun out because the insurance company doesn't like it!!
What kind of insurance companies are you dealing with. Obviously not Tarantinos insurers...

From what I'm being told there's only one company in the US that handles short term production insurance. I could always get a full term plan that covers feature films but that would cost way too much money. So I have to trim the script and use some of my friends as actors, as opposed to using the real actors which I've already casted (something no director would be very happy about) and just shoot without insurance. I can't take the chance of getting sued and losing all of my equipment which is a huge risk especially when I'm working with strangers.

I can sort of see where the insurance company is coming from. If I'm only spending $2000 on insurance and someone gets hurt they could end up paying out more. However, the funny thing is, they'll let me use a very real, very sharp knife since it's being used to cut vegetables -- but I can't use a gun which is in no way shape or form capable of firing -- which at the worst might fall on someone's toe. I don't see the logic in that, but that's just me.

Of course the company wants to avoid risks, but that's the deal: you pay 2000 $ premium and they pay the damages, if any. Nothing happens, they pocket two K. I simply can't believe that they are serious excluding fake, non firing guns from being used in small film productions. Did you speak to them on the phone, is there no way out? Can you have "gun" in a dialogue? Can't you use a euphemism for gun in the script, like "stick", or even "plastic toy pistol"...?

You know, even with non firing guns your local rules might require a cop and / or an armourer to be on the scene. The last shot I was on we had a cop because there was exterior shots with non-firing props. Perhaps your insurance company is requiring that reassurance.

First thing you should do (like right now) is give your local film commission a call.

If they can't lead you in the right direction take out a premium on your gear thru your production company. Register a doing business as name at your local county office then take out a premium on your gear that you own/plan on renting.

Another issue you may be trying to cope with is liability for those actors/actresses on the set. This could probably be solved by busting out a boiler plate liability release indemnifying you from any of your actors reckless behavior.

Also, if you are trying to insure a location etc you can get location insurance for events, etc. I know some places require a million dollar+ coverage for large events (like on parking lots etc)

I think mostly what you need to understand is that insurance is a way to limit your liability and put a set amount on how exposed you are. For instance, on my up and coming shoot and I have location insurance, equipment insurance and liability releases (which I turned into my insurance company) and I have something like 80,000 dollars of coverage with a 1000 dollar deductible.

I hope this gives you some ideas, without a more comprehensive explanation of what your doing/trying to get as far as your shorts concerned then all I can do is generalize.

Going to your film commission is a good idea regardless.

Good luck

Since I own all my equipment and the locations are being generously donated by my friends and family -- my main concern insurance wise is with the actors. If one of them get's hurt I don't want to be sued, or for them to sue the person who owns the location I'm shooting at. There's nothing in the script that has a potential for a serious injury. I'm more worried about something along the lines of someone tripping over a wire, a light falling on someone's head, etc.

I've thought about a liabilty release form, but I'm afraid it wouldn't be worth the paper it's written on in court. I'm not sure what New Jersey's stance is on that type of contract. My next course of action is going to be to an attorney to view my options.

Indemnity is one of the least understood areas of law so be careful even with legal advice.

Also, your comment about that piece of paper not holding up in court is incorrect. See, a liability release releases you from liability for somebody else's actions that are grossly negligent.

For instance if I am on your set and I am fiddling with some electricity and throw a hot cable into the pool with your lead actress and she dies -- her family can sue me for civil damages, but you cannot be held responsible for my negligence.

However if you are the one who is being grossly negligent then you can be held liable even with an liability release.

See a lawyer if your that concerned -- that's what they do, traverse the illogicistics of the law.

Dean

Indemnity is one of the least understood areas of law so be careful even with legal advice.
Indemnity isn't an area of law, it's a legal theory of liability, and liability is exactly what lawyers understand.

Also, your comment about that piece of paper not holding up in court is incorrect. See, a liability release releases you from liability for somebody else's actions that are grossly negligent.That's not true. Superseding intervening negligence can be a defense to liability, but it's not possible to disclaim gross negligence.

For instance if I am on your set and I am fiddling with some electricity and throw a hot cable into the pool with your lead actress and she dies -- her family can sue me for civil damages, but you cannot be held responsible for my negligence. Also not true. It depends on why you are on the set. Unless you're a trespasser whose presence wasn't reasonably foreseeable, the producer is liable.

However if you are the one who is being grossly negligent then you can be held liable even with an liability release.That's correct.

See a lawyer if your that concerned -- that's what they do, traverse the illogicistics of the law.

Deniz,

You don't specify whether your actors are members of SAG (Screen Actors Guild, the union) or not. I have heard that SAG requires the producer of any film to have insurance (workmen's comp, anyone?) before it will allow SAG actors to work on the project.

Since I may want to shoot with SAG actors in the near future, I'd be delighted if anyone else has the straight dope on this.

(By the way, the SAG Indie website doesn't come out and say that you MUST have insurance, but they do list insurance companies for e.g. New York State:

http://www.sagindie.com/res-Ny/ny118.html)

Michael

None of my actors are in the union. I don't feel like dealing with SAG -- at least when making a short film.

<<<-- Originally posted by Michael Bernstein : Deniz,

You don't specify whether your actors are members of SAG (Screen Actors Guild, the union) or not. I have heard that SAG requires the producer of any film to have insurance (workmen's comp, anyone?) before it will allow SAG actors to work on the project.

Since I may want to shoot with SAG actors in the near future, I'd be delighted if anyone else has the straight dope on this.

(By the way, the SAG Indie website doesn't come out and say that you MUST have insurance, but they do list insurance companies for e.g. New York State:

http://www.sagindie.com/res-Ny/ny118.html)

Michael -->>>

I'm currently vetting a SAG signatory agreement for one of my clients. Though the Indie agreement may differ (ours is for interactive media, i.e. computer games), ours requires insurance. If you call SAG, they should be able to provide a copy of the applicable agreement, which will set out all of the requirements for employing SAG talent.

Hi,

Could anyone here based in the UK make any recommendations for good (if there is such a thing!) insurance companies for video equipment in the UK? Until now I've only had to cover relatively minor equipment, but now I am getting a much more expensive camera. Are there any broadcast or video camera specific insurance companies out there?

If you are doing commercial video, you really need several types of insurance:

1. Equipment coverage
2. Company liability
3. Errors and Omissions.

In the US, WEVA is the best bet for insurance coverage. Once one is a member, #'s 1 & 2 are about $550 per year, #3, for events and weddings only, is about $70 per year from Lloyds.

Im in seattle and am doing a location shoot in miami. the facilty wants me to sign a contract saying I am insured for any damages that may occur during shoot.

what can i do, Im a LLC but have no Location Insurance or Insurance of any kind plus I dont have the foggyist idea how to get it or how this is normally handled.

Normally you approach an insurance company that is specialised in this kind of thing. You present the script and the budget and they take a percentage according to their assessment of the risk involved. Something like 3 to 5 % of budget for a "normal" production. Don't know the companies in the US, but they should not be too hard to locate.

anyone else???? do i go to a generic company like allstate or???

I have a comany that I use but would love to shop around for a better deal. Any recommendations?

I'm looking to get liability/comp insurance. I've seen numerous people talk about the cheap insurance out there but has anyone ever made a claim? $300/year insurance seems really cheap to me and I'd hate to get a policy that does not actually pay anyting.

Thoughts?

I used to insure thru my H/O,car and life company one of the biggies-you know the one that statesall over-then they decided to get out so I switched my business insurance to another biggie, the one where you're in good hands but they were pretty costly. I now have ALL of my gear insured thru RV Nuccio. Not only all the gear but a very nice liability policy as well. About 400 a year AND its thru Firemens Fund Insurance, a rather large and well known company. KNOCK ON WOOD!!!! In almost 22 years in video, I've never had to use the policy at all. (I probably just set myself up;-0)
Anyway Nuccio is done online and a legit company (they're a broker) and the rates are good.
Find them at www.rvnuccio.com read thru the site and all your questions should be answered. BTW, no I don't work for them.
Don B

Anyone know of any low-cost insurance and Errors and Omissions (professional liability) Insurance??? (other than joining WEVA).

This will be for wedding and event videographer .

Thanks
Trent

Do you have homeowners and auto insurance? If so, then talk to your agent. That's what I did when I needed to insure my equipment for a trip and they came up with a nice policy. If you have coverage from different companies it might be worth considering consolidating it all through one company, and use a local agency so you have a real person to talk to if there are problems.

FWIW, I has State Farm...

but does that cover on site issues or just travel? And what about E&O? Does your policy cover that too?

Thanks for the reply

Trent

No, I don't have that kind of policy. But my point was that you should establish a relationship with a real person at a local insurance agency. If you give this same person your auto, homeowners, and personal liability umbrella policy then it may help you to get favorable rates.

You want someone who will stand behind you in the event of a claim. Asking strangers on the internet for information about "low cost insurance" may not bet the best strategy...

For liability and equipment coverage I use RVNuccio. They are a broker that places policies thru Firemens Fund. They're pretty reasonable also. Check out RVNuccio.com.
As for E&O, frankly in 23 years I've never had it nor thought about having it for weddings and events. If you're contract, ooops, I mean AGREEMENT is spelled out properly meaning a good contract attorney wrote it up properly you really would have little if any need for E&O. My agreement clearly states that things like camera placement (one example) is at the discrection of the operator AND will be within the rules and regulation as set forth by the venue and officiant, meaning that I will put my cameras where I feel I will get the best coverage BUT the house rules apply before all else and I can't be responsible if something gets missed because of the house rules. The list goes on to cover virtually every contigiency I have ever come across in 23 years and perhaps a few I haven't but probably will. I think its better to have it in writing than to wonder and worry "will my insurance cover me if...)
Write it tight, CYA and you'll be fine for weddings and other social and corporate type events.

Don

ty Don..I will look it up. Good advice. If anyone else has company info regarding insurance, please post.

Thanks again Don

This past week I bought a new SONY DSR-400 and a bunch of stuff to go with it. So when I grab my bag and tripod to go our the door now, I'm toting about $15K worth of goodies.

I never worried about it much with the XL-1s, but I'm thinking I better get some kind of loss/damage insurance. My auto insurance covers it while the stuff's in the car, and my home-owner's insurance covers it here; but...

Any suggestions?

Charles, who is your auto and home insurance with? I'd be happy to get someone who would just cover my gear at home and in the car like that. Even coverage just for fire or theft would make me happy. Neither my homeowner's or auto policies will cover the equipment at all since it is used for business, and I haven't found anyone locally who does offer coverage for gear unless it is kept at a fixed location and never taken outside (kept in a studio).

Dan:

In Colorado, you don't have to be a farmer to be a member of the Farm Bureau and have their (reasonably priced) insurance. So I do.

But I guess I should check with my agent, again. I don't remember business items being excluded. I lost my editing computer when lightning hit my house two years ago, and they took care of that immediately.

As far as auto insurance is concerned, I must be an industry poster boy. I'm 56, have been paying since I was 16, and I've never had a claim.

Charles,
I've found the same as Dan. Neither my HO or auto covers my gear EXCEPT my HO policy will cover it in my house if the house is destroyed etc.
All of my gear and my liability is taken care of by RVNuccio.com who are brokers and place their policies thru Firemens Fund Ins. Not that expensive and well worth it. I'd hate to find out my auto policy did not cover my gear when I'm filing a claim.
They might have covered your computer because it was a computer not necessairly an editing computer or they just didn't realize you used it for business. Most insurance company's don't or can't tell the difference between a computer and an computer used exclusively for editing.
Anyway thats a good idea checking with your agent and if he turns pale as a ghost or coughs alot or bursts out laughing at your inquiry (some of them will do all 3) try rvnuccio.com.

Be careful with that new beauty and have fun with it.
Don B

Thanks, Don.

You'd better talk to your agent; you might be in for a rude awakening. My homeowners policy provides coverage up to $5,000... BUT my agent said there was a very gray area if the equipment is used as part of a business. So last summer I had her research things and ended up with a "inland marine policy" (at least I think that's what it's called) which covered about $15,000 of my gear which was detailed in a list. This policy provided coverage while travelling outside of the US which was important for me.

I have my homeowners, auto and personal liability policies through State Farm FWIW. It was not particularly expensive - under $250/year IIRC. Talk to your agent and clearly explain what you use the equipment for, how much it cost and what sort of coverage you want. They can suggest the correct policy to cover all the bases.

Aren't these things covered when you get insurance for the shoot?

Well you also need LIABILITY insurance when you film, but that's a completely different issue from LOSS insurance. So you have a variety of bases to cover....

if you are using it to make $$ then as others have stated your home/renters insurance is not going to cover it .. you can ask your agent about pricing on a FLOATER policy to cover it and any liability insurance coverage... back in 2000 when i had my home insurance look into it they wanted 1800 to cover 20K in equipment ( 1000 deduct) and 1 mil liability package ... note that my insurance stated that if i use equipment to make or my intent is to make $$ it was/is NOT covered by home owners insuance at home or in auto...

today i have no intent to make $$ on my projects so i pay around 500 for a 20k equipment and few mil liabilty floater policy per year ...