I was capturing some footage from a recent wedding today and noticed something that is a major problem. Right before everyone starts coming down the aisle, the groom's mic cuts out never to be heard from again. Normally this isn't a HUGE problem as we plug into the soundboard, but at this particular little old Catholic church, there was nothing to plug in to. The rear camera is too far away to catch anything of use from the vows and now I'm at a complete loss about how to handle this situation. We do have a CYA clause in our contract about gear failure, but that's just to keep from being sued, it's not like pointing out this clause will smooth things over with the client. Any good ideas?

If you don't have any audio at all....your scr*wed.

Does the church record the service, was anyone else filming with a handheld. Did you have any radio mics, mini-disc...anything.

Surely, the rear camera can yield something? You could run it through Sound-Forge and maybe get something useable?

If not........learn from this mistake.

Next best is to get them to re-do it, preferably in the church, Write their lines out, then get them to re-do just the vows. The rest of the ceremony, you could maybe cut to some hymns culled from a previous video?

Alternative No 2 is to see if they fancy the humorous route and go for the badly dubbed Japanese movie version.


This could so easily be quite a few of us. Sorry it was your turn for the Bad Luck Fairies!

RULE TO LIVE BY
ALWAYS MONITOR AUDIO!

During the Ceremony my headphones NEVER leave my head.
I always split the audio such that one channel is wireless on Groom and the other is camera shotgun. That's why cameras that can handle two separate audio inputs are important.

Even with a single input camera, had you heard the audio cut out you could have pulled the cable out of the input jack causing the camera to go back to the built in mic.

I like Alastair's Japanese suggestion...

But really, that sucks for you.

Your front camera was recording audio only from the wireless? Usually you would have a second channel available that would have got ambient sound from a shotgun or something. You might be able to get that to work.

You could ADR just the vows.

OR have them record their vows, not trying to match what happened, and use that as a voiceover to an edited down version of the ceremony with music underneath.

Hope you get out of it okay...

We've done 50+ weddings and this has never been an issue before. Nice time to have a wake up call. Geesh.
I was on the front cam with our trusty wireless plugged in. Like I said origionally, the audio was there at the beginning. What I usually do is monitor the audio right after I begin rolling and if I've got the groom I tend to unplug the headphones cause I don't like a lot of extra stuff hanging off me while I'm shooting. Looks like I'll leave them in from now on.

The front camera was an FX7, so there's no second ambient track to fall back on. As long as the mic is plugged into the 1/8" jack, the on-board mic is disabled. Looks like the wireless is going to be on the rear cam from now on.

The church does not record, like I said in my origional post, they didn't even have a sound board to plug into. There was no way to get audio from their house system. It was a simple old Catholic church with no modern anything. We usually do plug my trusty old MD player into the house sound, but nothing here.

Someone asked about running the rear cam through Sound Forge. The problem with that is the groom was the shy type and pretty much wispered his vows. I can get something out of the bride, but the groom is hopeless.

The voiced over vows might be an option... I'll try to exhaust everything else first. We'll figure out a technical way around this, I was just wondering how to handle the client. Anyone else ever run into this problem? How did you handle the client?

First of all, did the mic go bad or did it just "cut out". In other words, if you fired up the mic right now would it work? The reason I ask is because if the mic just plain broke, then I would explain that to the couple. Certainly they will still be disappointed, but it helps your case because you can't predict a mic failure.

However, if the mic just cut out, then it's probably done it before . . which means you knew about the issue and didn't provide for an alternative. In this case, you can still approach the client with an explanation that your equipment failed, but you should also consider giving them a substantial discount in my opinion.


I would highly recommend investing in much better wireless mics, or going with digital voice recorders (this is what I do). DVR's are nice because they free up your cameras to record additional audio. Some would say that the downside is that you can't monitor them. But really, if your mic goes out in the middle of the ceremony are you going to stop the ceremony? Nope. So being able to monitor your mic is only somewhat useful at a wedding in my opinion.

Sorry about your troubles. I know how it is to be in your situation, and it's not fun at all.

First of all, did the mic go bad or did it just "cut out". In other words, if you fired up the mic right now would it work?
The mic worked just fine the following week for another wedding so it must have been a battery problem. I've been using rechargable batteries and my guess is that they've reached the end of their service life. I rotate sets of batteries for each job and I'm guessing that set is no longer holding a charge. It held one long enough to power up and work for a few minutes but then cut out. Thats my best guess at this point. Yet another lesson learned here, DON'T USE RECHARGABLES.
However, if the mic just cut out, then it's probably done it before . . which means you knew about the issue and didn't provide for an alternative.
Hmmm... maybe I'm in a bad mood because of my current situation, but that sounds a bit accusatory to me, especially if you don't know my gear. Which leads me to my next gripe
I would highly recommend investing in much better wireless mics
I use Lectrosonics mics. How much better do you want me to get?

But you do make a good point that I've been toying with anyway. And I quote:
or going with digital voice recorders (this is what I do). DVR's are nice because they free up your cameras to record additional audio. Some would say that the downside is that you can't monitor them. But really, if your mic goes out in the middle of the ceremony are you going to stop the ceremony? Nope. So being able to monitor your mic is only somewhat useful at a wedding in my opinion.
point well taken. I might end up going this route.

Sorry about your troubles. I know how it is to be in your situation, and it's not fun at all.
No, it's no fun at all. Especially when you've worked hard to brand yourself as "professional" and "higer end". It's not easy to save face in a situation like this.

I sincerely apologize if I came across as "accusatory" at all. That was not my intent.

You're right that I don't know your gear or history or anything, which is why I was providing "if's". Lectrosonics are pretty darn good, so it sounds like you've got that covered. When I used wireless mics, I bought new batteries for every wedding just to avoid the issue you had. I did that because I learned some lessons the hard way while running sound for a church using rechargables. Sounds like you've learned that lesson now too. It sure does suck to learn things the hard way.

Anyways, I was just trying to help and I'm sorry if I offended you at all. I just know that plenty of videographers cut corners, and may ignore an issue and then have it come back to bite them. IF that was your case, then I was suggesting you compensate the couple appropriately. It sounds like it was NOT the case, so you can ignore that part of my previous post. Thanks.

Hey Ethan, I have had my share of audio problems. Just read my posts. I feel for you dude. I had a wedding where I had audio from 5 sources and two of them degraded on me at the point (one of my Irivers got turned off and I ran into some weird wirless issues.) If you want to post what ever audio you have, maybe a short clip, I'll hack at it.

Just so you know, now I grab audio from two digital recorders, a wireless mic, and I run a shotgun on a boom to the front, from the front camera.

I like the overlay of vows with music solution, you could add some reverb to the voices to give them that 'soap opera' audio. Thanks for sharing your story though.

Travis,
I think I was a bit touchy after my troubles. Another lesson learned today is that I shouldn't shoot back with a knee jerk response when I'm agitated. You were just trying to offer your help and I responded harshly. My mistake. I really do appreciate the help.

Steven,
I'm basically going to have to go with whatever audio the rear camera picked up on this one. If there is anything at all from the groom I'll send it your way. From my very short test today I'm not sure there's anything of his vows to work with.

Any good ideas of how to make that work? I have ambient from the priest and bride (she was talking louder than the groom) but I'm pretty sure the rear cam didn't pick anything up from the groom. I'm leaning towards the idea of having the couple voice themselves over, but I'd love to avoid bringing the problem to their attention if at all possible.

Travis,
I think I was a bit touchy after my troubles. Another lesson learned today is that I shouldn't shoot back with a knee jerk response when I'm agitated. You were just trying to offer your help and I responded harshly. My mistake. I really do appreciate the help.

No problem. Like I said, I know what it's like to be in your position, and it's rough. Best of luck to you in achieving a good resolution to the problem.

Take a peek at the footage of the audience and see if there happened to be an 'Uncle Bob' filming the wedding for posterity -- you might be able to get the tape. I'm sure the audio would suck, but its obviously better than nothing.

At my brother's wedding, the still photographer had some screw-up with his digital memory card and lost everything. Quite ironic, since my brother happens to be a professional photograher, and at least 4 other photographer friends were in attendance that day, but none bothered to take pictures.

-Terence

Hi Ethan,

My worst problem with audio has been a couple getting married on a yacht club balcony in a high wind blowing away from me and large sea hitting the wall behind the couple. A lapel mic was useless, just blew out in the wind, so all I had was a shotgun from ten feet.

The audience and the photgrapher standing next to me didn't hear the vows at all, and all I got was the sea spray noise and the celebrant, who had a PA, but didn't point his mic at the couple for their vows. (Yeah well....)!

Point is, I said to the couple that I wanted to do something extra for them, free of charge, to make their video memorable to them, and I wanted them to come to the studio and do a voice over dubb of their vows, just like the movie stars do!

They did it, it didn't take long, and their parents were so delighted because no-one in the audience heard the vows either!

Just a thought to help.

Cheers Vaughan

Looks like the voice over idea is picking up steam. It seems like the best idea so far, other than having to bring it to their attention that something went less than perfect. I might just have to get over the idea of admitting a mistake to them and do the over dub of audio.

I'm leaning towards the idea of having the couple voice themselves over, but I'd love to avoid bringing the problem to their attention if at all possible.

You could always present it to them as a cool and different way to edit their ceremony. Call them up and tell them you are trying a new short-form ceremony montage with music and voice over, and you would like to use THEIR wedding, yes, THEM, for your new short-form ceremony demo. You are sure that this style will be the new rage....

Why call them up to say you screwed up, and could they please help you out?

Of course, if they say no, you are back to square one.

As well, you don't need to present it as a disaster they will be angry over, ask you for discounts, etc.

If you want to be straight with them, just say the ceremony audio didn't work out as you hoped, and you would like them to do some ADR. There is no additional charge, of course, because you want them to have the best possible video.

Never tell them you screwed up and need to have your bacon pulled out of the fire. You're begging for them to badmouth you for years. There is always a positive solution for everyone if you look for it.

"Yet another lesson learned here, DON'T USE RECHARGABLES."

Sadly, that is true. I think the real problem with rechargeable batteries is their lower voltage. A "9V" rechargeable is actually 7.2V which is at the borderline of where my Lectrosonics will function. I tested my wireless and I seem to recall it cut off around 7V which is not a lot of margin for error. With a coppertop alkaline, my wireless lasts for over 7 hours!

I hate throwing away batteries with half their life in them, but there is no other way to get the job done. I don't understand why they don't make them a higher voltage. I believe the individual cells put out 1.2V and they put together 6 to make the 7.2V rechargeables. They should put together 8 of them to make 9.6V as that is only about .4V over a new alkaline.

Some devices claim to be compatible with rechargeable batteries so they probably mean they can tolerate the lower voltage. I wish manufacturers would get together with the battery companies to solve this problem.

EDIT

I searched around and found 8.4V rechargeable "9V" batteries. These might work for many situations if they are a high amp-hour rating as they will hold that voltage for longer than a low-capacity battery. Regardless, I don't use rechargeables in critical situations due to lack of reliablity. It's too difficult to know if they really have a good charge or not. I also don't use cheap generic batteries as I have had them leak more than once inside a device. I will never put a cheap alkaline in my Lectrosonics and would only use rechargeable at the reception. Since an alkaline lasts so long in my wireless, that is not an issue. I buy 8-packs at Costco so the price is not an issue. I believe the Costco price is less than half the price at other stores and a quarter the price of batteries bought at convience stores.

I don't understand why they don't make them a higher voltage.

They do. You just have to order the right ones:

http://www.codespro-online.com/Maha_PowerX_Batteries-POWERX_9_6_VOLT_RECHARGEABLE.html

Here's a US distributer:

http://www.thomas-distributing.com/mh-96v230.htm

Ethan,

In the years that I have been videotaping weddings professionally, a few things I have found to be universally true:

1. Wireless mics will fail you eventually. Having owned Lectrosonics, Sony, Azden, Sampson, etc., I have encountered many problems that have led to audio dropouts- bad batteries, jammed frequencies, stressed mic wires, and even a groom that chose to turn his wireless mic off right before the vows! The audio gremlins that sometimes live in poorly designed Church systems are no guarantee for a great audio feed either.

so,

2. Backup, backup, backup. You MUST be prepared to record at least 2 audio sources close to the altar area. If I read your post correctly, it sounds as if you usually have backup- a wireless on the groom and a direct church feed. I think that's great. However, you should have known that the church had no direct feed for your MD before the wedding day and brought a second wireless for the priest.

It has been said that the mark of a true professional is how you react when things go wrong. Therefore, most important:

3. Honesty is always the best policy. Be honest with your bride. The sooner you resolve this problem with the bride the better- and you will sleep much easier:) I have re-recorded vows and produced short-form video to help negate major audio & video issues, but ALWAYS with the bride's knowledge and encouragement. And in 800+ weddings I have never, ever had to use my contract to settle a dispute.

I hope this helps. I wish you well,

Mike Jensen
Jensen Wedding Films
Sacramento, CA
www.jensenvideo.com

3. Honesty is always the best policy. Be honest with your bride. The sooner you resolve this problem with the bride the better- and you will sleep much easier:) I have re-recorded vows and produced short-form video to help negate major audio & video issues, but ALWAYS with the bride's knowledge and encouragement. And in 800+ weddings I have never, ever had to use my contract to settle a dispute.

Can't argue with that. He's right.

Why even tell the bride? Bust out the microphone and do the groom's voice-over yourself. Nobody will notice.


(just kidding, obviously!)

Hey mate, calm down. Dont worry. I have had this happen before (once)
There is not much you can do about it but move on. What we did was edit music underneathe the footage. In essence the raw footage became one big massive highlights clip. We took the time and edited out the crap shots etc and used 40 minutes of music.
We were prepared to take in on the chin. Refunds , apologise etc. Didnt need to however. The bride thought that this was part of the package and has since been responsible for 40% of our work via word of mouth.
Look at what you have and work it to your advantage. You may have to work a bit more to pull out of the hole your in, but dont slash your wrists yet.
This could be a positive.

I think you shoud rent a Neuman Condenser microphone and record the B&G saying their vows with dramatic cadence. Mix that with some syrupy music and make it the opening sequence. Big fat lush vocal over dub, really over the top. The best damn vow that has ever been recorded.

Just spit-ballin' late at night. Good Luck.

My first wedding ever required re-dubbing the vows. I think that wedding also had my happiest "customers" ever. They were friends and got the video for free, but the bride's mother wrote me a rave review thank-you note talking about how she and her friends loved the video.

Vito, thanks for that find on the 9.6V rechargeables. Do you use these in your wireless systems?

I just read a customer review on that site and they have the 10-bank charger and use Sennheiser wireless systems at their church. They said that the batteries last at least 3 hours over two of their services and that they haven't tested them longer. I'm guessing that they should last quite a while, but I think I still might use a fresh alkaline in the transmitter. A good rechargeable in the receiver might be a good compromise between peace of mind and environmental friendliness. Actually, I do some really quick outdoor weddings where a good rechargeable might be acceptable. I'm usually close enough to get audio with my on-camera mic so I wouldn't stress so much.

Vito, thanks for that find on the 9.6V rechargeables. Do you use these in your wireless systems?

My system takes AAs, but I do indeed use their batteries. They work great.

I've only done one wedding so far (I've done several other church events) and I had the groom wired like Ryan Seacrest on American Idol. 2 lavs: 1)GS+Iriver in his pocket and 1 Samson UHF 32 with the audio feed going into my camcorder.

Before the ceremony started I did a test with the church audio guy to make sure my UHF system would not interfere with their Shure system.

Always monitor audio and I use V6s. I was able to easily dial down the audio volume when I switched from Videomic and plugged in the UHF receiver for the groom lav.

Audio came out awesome. Both tracks.
The GS is amazing with it's pickup. There was a poem reading done from the 4th row and the audio was really low but once I took the file in Audacity I was able to nicely raise the volume on the poem reader (and remove the noise).

Quite honestly I don't think I would trust to get the audio feed from the PA system. At least no as my main source. It would have to be my 3rd backup after the Samson UHF and GS+Iriver.
Getting the PA system does have a good value when there is someone at the ceremony reading a poem (someone who is not close to the BG+priest) like it happened in my case. I did have 2 camcorders so I had audio on the other one as well (which was next to the poem reader).

"Before the ceremony started I did a test with the church audio guy to make sure my UHF system would not interfere with their Shure system."

There is usually no such thing as an audio guy here. To top it off, if there is a problem with the house system it will probably be me that gets to diagnose the infernal contraption. Sometimes the location will set up a mic for people to speak into, but that is rare. Regardless, almost nobody knows how to use a microphone so I would never use audio from a handheld mic anyway. It would have audio levels all over the place and a bunch of loud pops from people spitting in it. On the contrary, I shot a karaoke contest here once for a hotel employee Christmas party and I swear they were all professional singers.

My concern with using two wireless systems on one person would be possible interference with each other over harmonic frequencies. I guess if they were in different pockets it should be okay? I think I need an Iriver...

You could always present it to them as a cool and different way to edit their ceremony. Call them up and tell them you are trying a new short-form ceremony montage with music and voice over, and you would like to use THEIR wedding, yes, THEM, for your new short-form ceremony demo. You are sure that this style will be the new rage....

Why call them up to say you screwed up, and could they please help you out?

Of course, if they say no, you are back to square one.

As well, you don't need to present it as a disaster they will be angry over, ask you for discounts, etc.

If you want to be straight with them, just say the ceremony audio didn't work out as you hoped, and you would like them to do some ADR. There is no additional charge, of course, because you want them to have the best possible video.

Never tell them you screwed up and need to have your bacon pulled out of the fire. You're begging for them to badmouth you for years. There is always a positive solution for everyone if you look for it.

I think it's a bad idea to call them and say you want to try out a new format, because IF they say no, then you're going to have to tell them the truth about the audio . . and it's going to look like you were trying to keep them in the dark. That would be a great reason to bad-mouth your company.

I think it's a bad idea to call them and say you want to try out a new format, because IF they say no, then you're going to have to tell them the truth about the audio . . and it's going to look like you were trying to keep them in the dark. That would be a great reason to bad-mouth your company.


Pretty much what I said with "Of course, if they say no, you are back to square one."

And why I suggested the alternative of:

"If you want to be straight with them...etc"

Pretty much what I said with "Of course, if they say no, you are back to square one."

And why I suggested the alternative of:

"If you want to be straight with them...etc"

I know. I was just posting my opinion of which of your suggestions I personally wouldn't do. No harm meant.

No harm meant.

No offense taken.

Cheers,
Vito

In regards to rechargeable 9v batteries, here is a link to rechargeable lithiums that I've been using for almost 2 years now with no problems whatsoever. It powers my Lectrosonics mics 7 hours, and recharge takes 1.5 hours. The key to this battery is don't discharge them completely or you'll kill it prematurely. I highly recommend these!

http://www.thomas-distributing.com/ipower-9v-lithium-rechargeable-battery.php

As for AA, I use the Engergizer 2500mAh, for AAA the Engergizer 900mAh from Sam's Club. I'm using the AccuPower super fast charger which charges AA,AAA, and 9v NiMH batteries in about 2 hours. The AA lasts way longer than alkalines and are great!

That's a good find. I would be nervous about them if I hadn't heard a good report. I guess lithium polymer is the same as my Sony camera batteries that I generally trust. A nice bonus is that the charger is a 1.5-hour model which means that one could top off the batteries nicely during dinner or even on the road with the car adapter.

That same site has 2900mAh AA NiMH batteries. That's an impressive rating for such a small rechargeable. I guess battery technology has improved since I was last bitten by them.