I shoot with the EX1 and am very happy with the camera. For some of my work I cannot take the EX1 along and am missing excellent footage for productions and stock.

Question:
What small HD camera is there on the market that will mix well with the EX1? It needs to be very small is size since my storage at times is very limited to volume and weight. Also it must fit in one of the waterproof housing on the market and have a wide angle option. I expect it to be a single chip 1920 x 1080 camera and 30P would be great.

My research is says the Canon HV30 and Ikelite housing but it is hard to go back to tape. Did anything new come out at NAB that fits the bill?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

hv20... you get the same camera for 100's less

Thanks Alex but no 30P.

Are there any non tape based small cameras up to my requirements?

In the same boat. I am after a second cam to compliment the EX1 and for pickup shots from a stationary tripod.

Would like 25P as I don't usually shoot interlaced.

I have been checking out the cnet.com site for their reviews. The Canon hc30 looks a good bet but as you say its back to tape.

The Sony HDR-HC7 is another good little cam. I have the HC3 but the problem is it's not as good as the canon hc20 in low light, and its interlaced only.

No one seems to bring out a 3ccd camera whic is in between a small handycam and a camera the size of the EX1/HVX/ZU1. The canon gl2 is SD only.

So far for me it sounds like the HV30 is still the winner.

Will the HV20 playback HDV tapes from other recorders? I'm looking to sell my Z1U and FX1 with my new EX1 and smaller HDV cam. With a large library of HDV tapes from the Sony's, I hope the Canon will play the 1080i HDV tapes.

What about the HDC series from panasonic? They record to SD cards don't they? Heard they were good for the price..

If not.. wait for Scarlet.. Sounds amazing for 3 grand.

Scarlet is unfortunately at least a year away. The panasonic HDC is a pretty great camera, a friend did a nascar job when they first came out and mounted them inside the car's headliner. Looked very good, although I'm not sure how they would mix with XDCAM, and last I heard 1080i only.

-Sean

hv30 def. If you want to cheap then that is what to go for. Nothing wrong with HDV

I messed up on this post -- read the next.

Paul, I'm sorry about the reply from the hip earlier this morning, I had just woken up and for some reason I read 30p as 24p ... most likely due to my cinematic preferences/half hang over.

Here is the thing -- you could switch to the all digital hf100 -- there you will get your resolution -- you will get your tapeless -- and you will get your 30p.

However... and I say this emphatically... are you ready to deal with the AVCHD codec? The "rolling shutter" issue seems to be even more of a problem than with the hv30's 25mb hdv format, however I would guess that as a B-Roll camera, it will most likely remain stationary on a tripod, thus removing that as a barrier.

That being said -- I have only heard the worst things about the editing end of this format. Apparently due to the compression measures taken, the rendering/processing elements of the AVCHD are unforgivable and uncooperative.

To that end I would recommend that you stick with the HV30 as it will work as a great deck for any other hdv work you have (my friend only used it with his A1 -- but I see no reason why it will work exclusively with Canon), in addition, the headaches you will avoid dealing with the already established/relatively stable HDV format will more than make up for the fact that you still aren't 100 percent tapeless.

PS
Yeah the scarlet will be THE option a year from now, most likely relegating your ex1 to B-duty. However that is not a "cheapo" option like you are asking for.

With lenses/viewfinder/accessories/etc. we are still looking at around 15k for the scarlet, at least? Not to mention the images will more than likely blow the shorts off of your new and shiny ex1.

Despite the fact that it doesn't work on 3 chips, it seems as if mysterium has incorporated high-end digital slr cmos technology in allowing all 3 colors to be accurately processed without being condensed on a single chip. It will be a monster, and should be on every one's radar come next spring... or so.

Hope I am of help,
Alex.

The HF10 and HF100 have both 24p and 30p and it records in 1920x1080. Another good suggestion is the Sony SR11 and SR12. It doesn’t have any progressive modes but I think its colors will be the closest to the EX1 mainly because its made by the same company and it borrows some of its technologies from the EX1.

Gee,

I've found it virtually impossible to colour match FX 7 (CMOS and Sony)footage to an EX 1, let alone a different make camera.

It was so frustrating and time comsuming I went out and bought a second EX!

We even went out and tested the Z7 to try and match that, but gave up and paid the extra for the EX.

....AND I'M SO GLAD I DID! Sitting here editing two EX's at the moment. It's great!

Cheers,

Vaughan

All great input. It looks like the HV30 should work fine and the housing is on the market. I have read about some problems with the HF10 and HF100 but don't know more then that.

As for larger cameras I agree there are other options. And for a second HD camera I do have two EX1's but due to size and weight restrictions they can not come with me at times.

I will make a decision by the end of the week so if anyone has something I am missing I look forward to your input.

Lots of good advice. Personally I'd go for the SR12 for the reasons mentioned.

There is this little guy I know nothing about that might be worth your consideration. Or it might be just a toy.

http://www.samsung.com/us/news/newsRead.do?news_group=productnews&news_type=consumerproduct&news_ctgry=camcorder&news_seq=6436

Ike

Ike thanks that Samsung looks interesting to bad it is not out until June. The SR12 also look like it is worth a look. I will check both out more tonight. Thanks

Has anyone tried the Sony SR12 with FCS?

Yes I have the sr12 with the letus mini as a second cam to the ex1 with letus extreme.

The sr12 has a much better display than the canon hv20, therefore you can actually judge focus pretty well. I have got the hv20 too,but no chance to judge focus, at least from my point of view.

The sr12 is very sharp but tends to produce heavier motionblur than the hv20.
Colorwise its much closer to the ex1 cause of the exmor technology.

It has no progressive mode, but I chose to do that in post.
But in the end the best progressive mode is useless if you come home with soft pictures cause you couldn´t judge focus.

Holger

We are currently shooting a Freeride cup (for skiers) and are making a 30 min broadcast every week.
We have a XL-H1, an A1 an EX1 and A HV20 and HV30, of all these cameras the H1 and EX1 are the ones that intercut best. The HVs are ok for this kind of program, but I wouldn´t have used it as a second camera in any kind of drama shoot. You really notice when you cut to these cameras. And the build quality is quite poor and plasticky. We have had 2 HV20s stop working already

PS We broadcast in SD

Thanks Holger and Joachim for the info all helpful.

I just want to add that I think the HV20 and 30 produce great images for the price.
Maybe if one have more time, you can make them match better. One of the problems is the limited manual controls of course

Deleted post

Gee,

I've found it virtually impossible to colour match FX 7 (CMOS and Sony)footage to an EX 1, let alone a different make camera.

It was so frustrating and time comsuming I went out and bought a second EX!

We even went out and tested the Z7 to try and match that, but gave up and paid the extra for the EX.

....AND I'M SO GLAD I DID! Sitting here editing two EX's at the moment. It's great!

Cheers,

Vaughan

Vaughan,

Just out of interest - have you had any problems with black suit colouring for your weddings. I have one coming up and just needed to know if you had any IR problems with the black suit colour (i.e. blacks looking slightly brown due to reflected IR)? I believe that very rough black surfaces like they use for nylon bag outers are far more prone to this problem, but was just inquisitive - as I am seriously considering whether it is worthwhile to purchase the IR filter for my EX1. I am going to use a Z1 b camera for the shoot - and don't want too many colour problems.
__________________

http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=3448

This diy ext. monitor will run at most 500 but will out perform both the LCD on your ex1 and will shit all over the LCD on the hv30.

What' I'm saying is -- this tool will be universally helpful -- it could turn a hv30 into a tool capable of critical focusing -- as well -- it will help crispn' the shots on your ex.

To be honest the hv30 will only intercut well with a high deal of color grading. In addition, it performs WORLDS better when used with an intensity card and a 35mm adapter (granted this applies to the sony as well - however based upon the comparative cost of the camera -- it is a far more reasonable investment).

I remember I once saw some guy do a music video on the hv20 w/ an intensity card and to tell you the truth -- that footage looked even better than a lot of, if not all of the footage I have seen with the xh-a1. Granted there were SEVERE limitations in terms of the shoot (needing a cpu with you) and not being able to do much camera moment, but the images looked amazing.

I remember someone saying something earlier on this forum -- don't worry so much about the same frame-rates in production -- post can "telecine" anything smooth enough to compensate for different production techiniques. Hence I would still even consider the hv20 -- as with the 500 dollar monitor it will be a far better tool than the 300 dollar more expensive hv30.

So I went for a Sony SR12. It will be here later this week.

Paul,
I'd heard so much about AVCHD being difficult to edit with, but I now understand that FCP (or iMovie) can handle the stuff. Have you tried this? I'm wondering if I could use either FCP or iMovie to convert footage to QuickTime files that I could then import into Avid. You may not know about exporting files out of FCP, but do you know if getting AVCHD into FCP is easy (or slow and difficult)?
thanks, malcolm

So I went for a Sony SR12. It will be here later this week.

Hey Paul,
I was considering doing the same thing for a b roll... will you please keep us posted as to how easily you are able to mix its video with the EX1's? Also, what editor do you (plan to) use?

thanks!
-sutton

Yes I am also very interested in the reults. Is the SR12 true 1080P? I am after a small second camera and need progressive mode. The Canon cv30 is a fake progressive so no good for me.

This thread has saved me a lot of problems. I am going to just buy another EX-1 for my second camera.

Malcolm I have been told that Final Cut Pro will handle the footage fine and it is easy to convert to Prores which I will do. I have not tried it yet and do not know how easy it is but I have a very fast machine and will see late this week.

As for a second EX1 I have that and never use (might sell if the SR12 works as second cam) it since I am a one man show on most shoots. The SR12 is for jobs where I can't carry the EX1 (weight/size) and also in a housing for water surface shooting.

Sutton I will post what I think in a week or so once I have a chance to shoot and edit.

Steve 1080p and not tape pushed me to the SR12 over Canon.

Paul, thanks for doing the leg-work on this. I'm like you, a one-man company; I like to use a second, small handheld camera for interviews... Sony EX-1 on a tripod in front, me at the side (just out of frame), with second small camera.
I'll look forward to your review.
I edit in Avid, so I don't think I could use ProRes, unfortunately. Maybe I could export as QT, and get that into Avid, though.
Cheers,
Malcolm

Malcolm I have Avid Liquid on a second editing machine but have not had luck moving QT files between Avid Liquid and FC6.01. And yes I will let you know what I think of the camera by next week. The camera arrives today but we have rain till Saturday.

You will need to update FCP to 6.0.2 or 6.0.3 to use EX1.

Malcolm I have Avid Liquid on a second editing machine but have not had luck moving QT files between Avid Liquid and FC6.01. And yes I will let you know what I think of the camera by next week. The camera arrives today but we have rain till Saturday.

Sorry Craig I stand corrected I have FCP 6.0.2.