Hey guys, what program will edit 30p shot with the HV-30? Windows or Mac side.....

any NLE that can have 29.97fps progressive timeline should be able to do it. The problem is what do ya do with it after editing if trying to distribute via physical media...

any NLE that can have 29.97fps progressive timeline should be able to do it. The problem is what do ya do with it after editing if trying to distribute via physical media...

What do you mean? Can't you render 30p to a standard DVD and play it on a standard DVD player.

any NLE that can have 29.97fps progressive timeline should be able to do it. The problem is what do ya do with it after editing if trying to distribute via physical media...


Your short, but interesting post three two questions:

1. Isn't the 29.97 timeline for SD rather, and 30p would refer to HDV or AVCHD high definition video?

2. How about downconverting to SD? Any problems with 30p?

3. Why should it be a problem to burn it to Blu-Ray? (for those few of us who already own a Blu-Ray player).

Thanks!

1. No, although I don't own a 30P cam, I'm 99.999% sure that you're going to see 29.97 fps in the video stream properties because it's technically still 60i (59.94 NTSC) video. What's different is that the entire frame was captured at the same instance in time (=progressive) by the imager and merely split into two fields, hence, 1080/60I output via HDMI with these cams.

2. SD vs. HD (i.e., resolution) is irrelevant. It's the frame rate for playback on NTSC equipment that is going to be problematic.

3. The problem is 1080/30P is not supported in the BDA spec. That means the BD player doesn't HAVE to properly display 30P video. You've only got 1080/24P and 1080/60i in there. Certainly, you're not going to flag your video as 24P - that would be a trainwreck. So you have to flag it as 60i and hope the player is using smart enough technology to ignore the flags and instead, correctly identify no interframe movement (meaning progressive frame) between the field A and field B and instead of using motion-adaptive de-interlacing algorithms, simply employs a weave and then frame doubles to get to 1080/60P (most common refresh rate for progressive displays in US).

IF that happens, you're going to get the purest IMO 1080P video available today. The problem is so few chipsets handle 30P video correctly. Read the reviews at the Secrets site for more info. This didn't stop NIN from releasing their BD video in 1080/30P (encoded, yet flagged as 1080/60I), however.

3. The problem is 1080/30P is not supported in the BDA spec. That means the BD player doesn't HAVE to properly display 30P video. You've only got 1080/24P and 1080/60i in there. Certainly, you're not going to flag your video as 24P - that would be a trainwreck. So you have to flag it as 60i and hope the player is using smart enough technology to ignore the flags and instead, correctly identify no interframe movement (meaning progressive frame) between the field A and field B and instead of using motion-adaptive de-interlacing algorithms, simply employs a weave and then frame doubles to get to 1080/60P (most common refresh rate for progressive displays in US).

IF that happens, you're going to get the purest IMO 1080P video available today. The problem is so few chipsets handle 30P video correctly. Read the reviews at the Secrets site for more info. This didn't stop NIN from releasing their BD video in 1080/30P (encoded, yet flagged as 1080/60I), however.

With "BD player", are you referring to a Blu-Ray player? Or what does BD stand for? (I'm just getting into all this HiDef thing, and don't know some of those expressions that you are using with great ease).

What, please is the "secrets site", whose reviews you recommended? Could you post a link?

Thank you!

Blu-Ray players can't playback 30p, which is somewhat stupid, as they can't do 60i so it's not so much of a resources problem (HD-DVD could do 30p, it was part of its standard).

Blu-Ray players can't playback 30p, which is somewhat stupid, as they can't do 60i so it's not so much of a resources problem (HD-DVD could do 30p, it was part of its standard).

So you need to convert 30p footage? Convert to what? Catholicism? :)

Blu-Ray players can't playback 30p, which is somewhat stupid, as they can't do 60i so it's not so much of a resources problem (HD-DVD could do 30p, it was part of its standard).

Huh? So no 60i, and no 30P. What's left.. just 24P?

^^^yes, 1080/60i is CLEARLY in the BDA spec. Sean, BD stands for blu-ray disc. And yes, BD players CAN play back 30P video because in order for the disc to meet spec, it must be flagged as 60i. Yea, semantics. The problem, as alluded to prior, is that 30P is not found in the BDA spec so the video processing chipset manufacturers are not forced to program their technologies to correctly identify 30P video and process accordingly. It's clearly at their discretion and so far, few have chosen to correctly process 30P. Of course, if 30P was officially supported, then you'd merely flag the disc as 30P in which case the player would not have to detect 30P video. Instead it would simply rely on the flags to tell it to frame double to hit 60 Hz.

www.hometheaterhifi.com is a good place to read about these BD player tests. Kris Deering and crew really do a great job evaluating these players in a professional and unbiased fashion.

^^^yes, 1080/60i is CLEARLY in the BDA spec. Sean, BD stands for blu-ray disc. And yes, BD players CAN play back 30P video because in order for the disc to meet spec, it must be flagged as 60i. Yea, semantics. The problem, as alluded to prior, is that 30P is not found in the BDA spec so the video processing chipset manufacturers are not forced to program their technologies to correctly identify 30P video and process accordingly. It's clearly at their discretion and so far, few have chosen to correctly process 30P. Of course, if 30P was officially supported, then you'd merely flag the disc as 30P in which case the player would not have to detect 30P video. Instead it would simply rely on the flags to tell it to frame double to hit 60 Hz.

www.hometheaterhifi.com is a good place to read about these BD player tests. Kris Deering and crew really do a great job evaluating these players in a professional and unbiased fashion.

Aaron, thanks for the link.

Too bad that "tomorrow's standard", Blu-Ray, leaves out important standards.

I recently created a 29.97 DVD with 30F footage from Canon XH-A1. I work on a 30P timeline, encode to 30p MPEG-2 file. the last step, Encore can only author 29.97 interlace DVD. I still proceed.

The final DVD looks great. I was surprised. The quality is even better than other DVD I shot with GL2.

Taky, I assume you're talking about a standard def DVD (so 480i/60). Also, what was you exact playback chain - DVD make/model, connection method, display make/model, and your specific player/display settings?

It's DVD. I'm not taking about BluRay nor HD DVD.

It's playback using a $30 Norcent DVD player I bought from walmart conect using component cable to my 42" plasma samsung HDTV.

Which unit is doing the de-interlacing?

Footage is already progressive. why does any unit need to deinterlace?

because SD DVD's are always interlaced.

because SD DVD's are always interlaced.

I don't believe this statement is correct.

Sean see this link it may help you out.
http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/hdv_to_sd_dvd.html

^^^the only thing that little tutorial demonstrates is how to encode progressive HD video to a standard def DVD. The DVD will still be authored as 480/60i, just as every other SD DVD has been done since the inception of the format. If it were possible to author a truly progressive SD DVD, it would not display on any interlaced CRT because, to my knowledge, no SD DVD player can interlace progressive video on the fly - progressive DVD players are designed to do just the opposite - de-interlace an interlaced DVD.

Ever make the mistake of trying to output progressive to an interlaced CRT lacking a de-interlacing chipset, LOL? That's exactly what would happen with a progressive SD DVD playing back over component vid hooked up to any interlaced CRT (lacking a de-interlacer ...sorry, lacking an active INTERLACER... - just about every single SD CRT television in existence).

The SD DVD format was created specifically for interfacing with interlaced televisions - because that's essentially all we had 10-15 years ago. Now, we all have progressive sets and that's why I say that the BDA really blew it when it failed to include native 1080/30P in the format.

Sean see this link it may help you out.
http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/hdv_to_sd_dvd.html

Thanks for the link!

Aaron, why are there still things like interlaced HD formats, when, as you mentioned on another thread, most modern HD sets are progressive?

IMO, because the people controlling the advancement of technology are too firmly rooted in the past, short-sighted, or just dumb, LOL. And it's not like the tech isn't there. Didn't NHK or some other Japanese broadcaster demonstrate 1080/60P broadcast television at 2007's CES? Also, Harris already has 1080/60P equipment available. And the video processing chipset manufacturers are already developing 1440P products, LOL.

Things are not going to stand still in this arena. Unfortunately, the ATSC committee prematurely IMO decided to stick with MPEG-2 instead of a more advanced codec like AVCHD/H.264/MPEG-4/VC-1 - pick your flavor - although, in their defense, I don't think any of those existed, what 10 years ago when the official ATSC spec was put to paper <--please verify the exact timeframe, I'm just best guessing here without looking it up.

So now you're trying to cram multiple Gb/s of data into a 19Mb/s broadcast television bandwidth allocation. Something's got to give, LOL, and it clearly IS.

Thought I would edit this to include a nifty little background read I just discovered that might shed some more insight on this topic. It's somewhat dated, but very, very relevant IMO. This guy certainly has quite the credentials so I have no reason to doubt him. So, a fourth reason would evidently be ulterior motives.

http://www.vxm.com/Progvsinter.html

Wow, I've got to bump this up after reading the info in that link a second time. The above-referenced is LOADED with very interesting tidbits of knowledge and experience that are very relevant to many discussions on this site. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED READ!