The audio on my HD1 is starting to crap out. From my test footage, I have started to see a general degradation of audio quality over the last week. It is a gradual increase of mostly light hiss, crackles and pops. I didn't really notice it until....

I had just got my Senn MKE300 and when I plugged it into the minijack, I got a chaotic din of crappy crackles and interference sounds. Man I'm pissed. I thought it might be the mic, but I tried it out on another camcorder and it sounded fine.

Has anyone had any similar audio problems?

I love the picture, but I really hope this is an isolated problem. I gotta shoot in 2 weeks and I really need to get this settled quickly.

btw-

how would you guys rate the audio quality of the XLR to minijack adaptor on the HD10?

anyone mind commenting on the quality of their audio with external mics? (hd1 or hd10)

i have to know whether this is an isolated problem, or if it runs in the family. if there is a pattern, i may bail on getting a replacement.

45 hits, and not a single response?

humor me please?

I'm not experiencing any audio problems after having it for a few weeks now, but I haven't had time to do much shooting yet where audio was importantm, so to be honest I haven't paid a lot of attention. I Haven't used the XLR inputs yet.


Hope this helps

Michael

I haven’t had my HD10 long enough to really comment, but here’s a speculation. Have you tried cleaning the heads? I don’t know if it was a thread in this forum or on another forum altogether, but I read were someone was experiencing picture degradation with heavy pixilation. Turned out, after cleaning the heads everything got all better. I did note that a head cleaner tape was supplied with my HD10. Perhaps this format is more susceptible to dirty heads?

thanks for the responses.

I would suggest to all of you to try out your external mics right away. JVC and my retailer have decided, based on my comments, that the unit is defective and are shipping a replacement out.

The interference sounds pretty much made any external mic unusable. I'm hoping that the replacement unit doesn't suffer from similar problems, otherwise I may give up on the JVC.

The problem probably lies in a defective minijack. It had nothing to do with the tape mechanism because the interference was very apparent when monitoring the audio with headphones, whether recording or not.

Additional comments from owners of the HD1 or HD10 would help dispel any questions concerning the JVC's audio quality.

Hopefully more of you are willing to share some of your experiences here.

are you sure it wasnt just from auto levels on the audio? i tried my rhode mic and my shure mic on mine and when theres no loud noises or dialogue the camera raises the audio and you hear lots of noises and that you shouldnt normally. this is why i do audio recording with a dat recorder seperate from the camera.....or use the onboard mic (which hasnt presented any problems other then the same crappy leveling and crappy mic-ness). hope that helps.....make sure they send you an hd10 back instead of an hd1 ;]

Hey Joe,

You said "you hear lots of noises and that you shouldnt normally" when the auto audio gain kicks in.

Would you care to elaborate?

On the JVC I just sent back, when an external mic was plugged in, the hiss and static was so loud as to make any normal speaking voice completely inaudiable- and did not disappear (at all) when audio levels rose. The onboard mic, while more useable, suffered from more subtle interference sounds.

The audio with the external mic was so bad as to make me think it had to be an isolated occurance.

Again, more information will be helpful.

maybe yours was screwed up....i found the noise to be slightly worse with a mic plugged in than with the built in. but voices were still audible, just the auto gain stuff is crap.

I’ve only manage to put a few minute’s on my HD10. Result viewed only on the camera, vlc reader and Mpeg Edit Studio Pro software. I used an older external JVC directional microphone (not XLR) plugged into the external mic jack. The subject was my backyard with no voices but had running water from the pool, the house air conditioner and some distant traffic sounds. Basically the type of background sounds that would kick the audio gain control into overtime. I didn’t perceive any extraneous hiss, crackle or pop of any kind. The audio seemed clean and pretty natural.

Hope this helps,

I just received my replacement unit. I have to say the audio quality of the external mic is no longer an issue- exactly the way it should be.

Btw- I've done some extensive testing of the onboard mic and have found it to be quite good in recording the full spectrum of sound. Music recorded on the JVC is pretty much accurate, with no significant dropoffs at any frequency, particularly lower hz. Much better than the MKE300 or the EW112P at these applications. Audio gain adjustments with the onboard or external mics are more difficult to discern than on previous camcorders i've owned.

No more snap, crackle and pops!

Anyone else do any major tests with the HD10 (audio = unbalanced) with a mic plugged into the XLR input?

My buddy, who now co-owns the camera, thinks we should just go all DAT, because the sound is so "canned." But he agrees that the lack of a hiss is great, unlike the XL-1.

Let me know if anyone else has dones some good audio tests? I put the camera to the limit playing putt-putt golf for my interview on my DVD. A guy with a loud weed whacker (gas powered), an airport (smaller planes and Lear Jets-type of planes) and I-95 (major highway for those of you not on the east coast of the US), all on a not-too-terribly busy Saturday, but it was LOUD! In my SUV, the canned sound wasn't too bad, so maybe it increases with other sounds.

And don't forget, it IS unbalanced (the camera/audio)...

heath

i would prefer dat, but dont have the money to buy a recorder yet. so im using the on camera....i would agree with the 'canned' sound but the audio needs work anyway because of the agc. good equalization and a proper level gate can fix all that though...then it sounds fine.

<<<-- Originally posted by Joe Russ : i would prefer dat, but dont have the money to buy a recorder yet. so im using the on camera....i would agree with the 'canned' sound but the audio needs work anyway because of the agc. good equalization and a proper level gate can fix all that though...then it sounds fine. -->>>

Since I'm audio idiot, can you explain that in laymen (aka, heath) terms? I use Final Cut Pro.

Thanks,

heath

ive never used fcp, so i dont know what kind of audio tools it has. but i basically roll off the low (below 120 hz) and the high (above 12 khz) frequencies with an equalizer...that will get rid of the canned sound for the most part...depending on what it is.

a gate basically allows you to select a point at which any sound below that level either gets louder or quieter....i use it to seperate dialogue from background and set background noise quiter then dialogue (fighting the effects of the AGC).

Aloha,

For those using the HD10u for short and feature length movies, how are you doing audio? Since the HD10u only has auto gain for audio, how are you dealing with that in production and post?

Since no one else has chimed in yet . . .

We have done it 2 ways . . .

1) We used double-system sound utilizing a Fostex MR-8 and an Azden SGM-2X mic, used a slate, and sync'd in post. We used a boom and had someone hold the Mic as close to the subjects as humanly possible without being in the frame.

2) Using the same mic, boom, etc., we also tried running the audio directly into the camera and didn't worry about the AGC.

So far, #2 seems like the way to go. We were able to work at 3 times the pace and cut cut a ton of time in post (no audio to sync).

True, the AGC is slightly noticeable at times, but so far we have been able to work around it.

After we finish our work in post I will post an update and let you know if we ran into any serious problems with the AGC.

As an aside, the Fostex MR-8 is a great little unit. You can get one at Musician's Friend on-line for $300. Better sound quality than a DAT or MiniDisc, no moving parts, interfaces directly with the computer, professional inputs, etc. Get a really big Compact Flash card though, this thing records uncompressed so the WAV files are big. I'm surprised nobody seems to know about this thing. Can't use it for live events because there is not enough recording time, but for non-sequential stuff it is great.

While at the HDV Roadshow in Miami yesterday (man, what a LONG drive) and talked to a JVC rep (not a sales person, but someone high up), actually, two of the them. They told me to call up JVC because, and this is alleged until I make that call, they may have found a solution to a big, nagging audio problem the earliest adopters have.

And that is a really "canned," "tinny" sounding audio going through the XLR from a microphone.

I'll give JVC a call today and report back ASAP!

heath

My JY-HD1OU is in for repair right now, hopefully to have this audio problem (and pixels out on the CCD) fixed, so I'll let you know. Someone else posted that they have a software fix for the audio bug, I hope that's correct.

Cheers

Hmm.... that's very interesting. If you add a 2Gb compact flash card ($230) you'll get 8 hours of mono 44k 16bit recording time. Is this a new unit? Unfortunately doesn't look like it has Phantom power on inputs, but apart from that it looks fantastic! I wonder if it has some kind of physical HOLD button on the record?

Thanks for pointing it out.

Cool.

heath

Yeah Paul, when I first saw this I was like "what's the catch"? So far we haven't found much of one. No phantom power, but like I said you would want a mic preamp/mixer, and a lot of those have phantom power (I think the Rolls one for around $100 has phantom power, can't remember for sure though).

Oh yeah, there is one bit of a catch (forgot about this) . . . since this was not designed as a field unit, the battery life is pretty poor; make sure to invest in at least two sets of rechargeable AA batteries and a charger.

Basically you just arm one of the 8 tracks, then press play and record together. Press stop at the end of each take, and repeat for each take.

Since we were always recording in mono, we would simply keep recording continuously on the same track until we ran out of room. I think we never used anything except track 1. The cool thing is that the thing actually creates a new .wav file everytime you hit stop and record again. So, all of your takes are automatically broken up into separate wav files automatically for you, you don't even need to use the different tracks.

Of course, the .wav file names are non-descript, so you have to go through the .wav files and log the shots (using the "id" recorded from the person doing the slate).

Some more little tips:

1) The MR-8 keeps an "undo" file in case you record over something and want it back; this is basically useless for our purposes and it takes up valuable space; there is a function in the menu to "delete wasted space" which basically deletes this undo file; remember to do this every so often

2) The manual makes a big deal about "DON'T TRY TO COPY THE INDIVIDUAL MONO WAV FILES TO YOUR COMPUTER . . YOU MUST ONLY COPY THE MASTER STEREO 8-TRACK MIX DOWN FILE TO YOUR COMPUTER". That is insane, and would make the unit useless for our purposes. Feel free to ignore this warning, it is a simple file copy operation, nothing on the MR-8 is modified, so it doesn't hurt anything. Trust me, we have copied the individual .wav files many, many times without problems.

Anyway, I'm really surprised more people aren't using this vs. a DAT or MiniDisc.

Sounds great, I was looking on their web page and they even have a Mac file transfer program, which would have been my other problem (if it only had windows support). It also says it only supports up to 512mb compact flash cards, but that would give you 2 hours of mono recording wouldn't it? I wonder if larger cards would work? About the batteries, the big rechargeable on my DAT only lasts 1.5 hours if you're lucky, so 6 AA's for 2 hours isn't so bad. I imagine the only minor down side is the design of the unit, for field work it would be better to have the controls on the top, having the record button on the side I might worry that it would accidentaly get pushed to "off" during recording. All in all it looks incredible though.
Thanks for bringing it to our attention.

It actually just shows up like a USB hard-drive or memory card reader drive in Windows . . . I've never even used their software (didn't know they had any to be honest).

File structure is kinda like a digital camera. Basically a bunch of folders arranged by song name; for our purposes there is usually just one song folder with a ton of .wav files in it. We just drag and drop the files to our hard-drive and that is it.

I imagine as long as a Mac can recognize it as a USB hard-drive, you can use it just like I can. I can't confirm that though.

Hi Heath,
Just to let you know I got my JY-Hd1OU back from the JVC repair center yesterday and they appear to have fixed all of my problems, including the "canned" sound when recording through the XLR's. I just tested the audio using a Lav and it sounds just great now, very natural and no short slapback echo, which is what I was hearing before. They were very quick in fixing it too, only one week turnaround. Thank you JVC!

Time to make a call!

heath

Just give JVC's tech support a call, it's that easy!

heath

Oh hey, I didn't see this thread...thanks!!

Murph

No sweat.

hwm

By the way, I was told the HD1OU is only being repaired/serviced at JVC's Cypress CA service center, and that's where I sent mine. The phone number is (714) 229 8011

I talked to someone in JVC and am sending my camera the first week of June. I have too many gigs beforehand.

heath

if i buy a new HD10u today from B&H, is it comming with the audio problem solved? or do i have to recieve and send it back to JVC for the fixing?

how can i be sure to buy a HD10u with the audio problem solved?

When you order from B&H, you'll never know until you get it. But from what I understand, that problem was fixed in later models. The earlier models needed a different kind of fix to remedy it.

heath

Can we post serial numbers and see what "batch" our cameras came from? I believe my audio is ok, but want to make sure.

Bought mid- 2003 -- Serial#: 11860178

Anyone else care to share? The serial is on the bottom of camera in plain few.

Murph

Can we post serial numbers and see what "batch" our camera came from?

Bought mid- 2003 -- Serial#: 11860178

Anyone else care to share? The serial is on the bottom of camera in plain few.

Murph

My JY-HD1OU is serial #10860009 bought June 2003, 1 year old this month!

Paul

Paul, did yours need audio fixing?

Also, has JVC sold 1,186,017 units?!!!

I have no idea how many they've sold Christopher, but yes, mine did need the audio fixing, it came back a couple of weeks ago and is now just fine.

Cheers

Paul

Murph,

That number sounds grossly too high. I heard a much lower number at the HDV Roadshow.

heath

Can you guys perhaps post a few before/after clips to illustrate the audio problem? I received my brand new HD10 last Thursday and to me the audio, either recorded with the on board mic or AT897, seems fine. Regardless, I'd like to be sure there's no problem.

I'm sure it was just the very early models off the shelf that had the problem, for me it was only when recording through the XLR's, but it sounded like a very short slap-back echo was being added to the sound on input. The casual listener might not notice it, but if you were editing dialogue on a decent system you definitely would, I don't have any examples I'm afraid. If you're listening to well isolated dialogue such as you might get off a good Lav mike and you're not hearing it, your camera probably doesn't have the problem.


All the best,

Paul is right on both counts, esp. the fact that early cameras really were the only ones who had that problem.

heath

I just recorded a piece of dialogue using an extrenal mic thru XLR and the audio came out crystal clear. So I assume anybody who will get the camera from B+H in these days will get the improved version.

So when the sound works good, how does it compare to other Prosumer cameras?

I now hear no difference between the sound on the JY-HD1OU and my much more expensive Ikegami ENG camera, using the same Lav's that is. So I think it would compare favorably with any prosumer cam sound.

Paul

The Audio is unbalanced, right? How would I go about making the audio balanced? Would I need something like a MixPre?

Glenn -

Thats's a really good question. I would think it would only cost a few dollars for the circuit to make the audio balanced. I can't figure out for the life of me why the didn't make it balanced.

In a book called Producing Great Sound for Digital Video the author includes schematics for building your own circuit using radio shack components. I wonder if the circuit would fit inside the little XLR box they give you with the HD10.

Any comments?

A friend of mine who did audio for Spike Lee explained me the whole balanced into unbalanced. Of course, I forget, so I'll ask him again.

As to why JVC did that, it's probably just a matter of costs.

heath

The last page of this month's DV Magazine has a detailed explanation. The way I understand it, in it's simplest form is this:

In a balance ciruit, the audio comes across two wires 180 degrees out of phase (negative and positive voltage). Think of two waves that are mirrors of eachother. Electrical noise on wire would appear as a spike on these two waves. A balanced circuit ignores these spikes, since the circuit can only 'see' the current on the wire if there are both a postive and matching negative signal.

To create a balanced circuit all one would need to add is a small transformer of sometype to filter out the noise. This type of ciruit was orginally invented by the phone company a long time ago.

My electrical engineering terminology is a little rusty - so please forgive me. I hope this helps.