Got my RED yesterday, loaded the batteries and was ready to make first shooting today. Here's my first impression for those considering getting the camera for the same purpose.

Weight of equipment From the day making the order I've been wondering how heavy the system is for wildlife shooting. Now that I have the camera, I can say the camera itself is not that bad, and the LCD is superb. I put the camera on the top of a Manfrotto 510 fluid head and it was just ok. Did not find any problems there.

The batteries, hard disks, the cradle, the so called basic production pack are heavy and managing with those require some thinking. Especially, as the system stands now, starting the camera takes about a minute and it takes a lot of power when it's on whether one shoots or not. Don't know yet what kind of arrangement I'll make to manage, for instance, three days in a hide. What I know, a lot of power will be needed.

Using the camera The camera itself is rather well organized. In fact, my biggest problem was to get the body cap off. I simply was not brave enough to turn the head strong enough and had to ask the technical support for help. Needless to say, felt like an idiot, but their consolidation was, several people have asked for the same thing! Perhaps not a bad idea to explain this in the manual for us dummies.

After putting the camera on, the very first impression was, the LCD is wonderful compared to anything seen with video cameras. I'm one of those who never found the Canon XL-series EVF a practical problem like many others, but the natural color balance of the RED LCD straight out of the box and the sharpness was a new experience.

Once the camera was on, I had to go back and through the manual for ten minutes before realized the joystick can be rotated to make selections. Thereafter I was ready to shoot.

Image quality It's early to say anything in detail of the image quality, but, as you can guess, it's far better than what I've ever seen before with my cameras. Here are three samples. In each case there is a high constrast between highs and lows. In the past either the highs have been blown out or the darks have been really black. If you click the thumbnails, you'll see yourself the bright and dark tones are still there. In addition, the 4:4:4 color space makes all the difference compared to 4:2:0.

More to follow later on. Especially, once I get the Birger mount for Canon EF-lenses.

http://www.luontovideo.net/001236_small.jpg (http://www.luontovideo.net/001236.tif)

http://www.luontovideo.net/002143_small.jpg (http://www.luontovideo.net/002143.tif)

http://www.luontovideo.net/004636_small.jpg (http://www.luontovideo.net/004636.tif)

Interesting reading. I'm guessing the mult factor on EF lenses is going to be very low though due to the big sensor. Thus you'll have to carry BIG glass to get good telephoto reach and even getting to 1000mm is going to be tough!??

Mat, the answer to your question depends on the chosen resolution. In the 4K mode the factor is about 1.4. In the 2K mode there's another factor of 2, so a 400m lens in the 2K mode corresponds to a 1100mm lens in a 35mm SLR camera.

More observations:

White balance and tint As RED stores the raw signal the white balance set is just metadata, and thus, insignificant. In addition to WB Red has also Tint. After experimenting with Tint I realized that's what I have missed in other video cameras for years. It's somewhat pity that this is the first camera I own having tint, for in case of RED it's just metadata. But with all the previous cameras I've had it would have really helped in getting natural colors. And that's what I find important in wildlife shooting.

LCD As already said yesterday, the LCD is very very good. Still, it has one shortcoming. The angle of view is quite narrow. I need also to make a sun shield for the LCD. This is not that straightforward as some buttons important for operating with the camera lie on the top of the LCD. Those buttons should not be covered by the sun shield.

User interface In my view The UI of REd is rather nice. The menu system is easy to learn and understand, and from the (wildlife shooting)operational point of view key functions -such as focusing tools and light meters- are easily and quickly accessed by pushing buttons. The impression is, the RED team have spent time designing the UI and making it functional.

Sensitivity The nominal ASA is 320 and in good light the lack of noise is very pleasant. I made some experiments with 500, 1000 and 1200 ASA. As it stands now, setting 1000 or higher reveals noise, but only time will show, what is the final word on this. I have build 13 in the camera and a PC and REDCINE PC-version is very much in beta stage. The tools are not yet really there and improvings are expected to come. I've seen some very nice low noise night shots made with RED, but currently don't know what kind of postprocessing it takes. I wasn't able to creqte similar stunning night images out of the box.

Summing up, RED has met so far my expectations. The really big factor for me was, I was after a camera whose image could be used say in 20 years. There's so much unique material shot over the years, which has become more or less useless. Nobody really wants 4:3 SD images nowadays. But, I can't go back and ask the animals to do it once more in some nice light conditions. The 4K format and 4:4:4 color space yields so much headroom above HD, that it creates a nice feeling the next unique moment captured may still meet the technical requirements in 20 years. There's a trade-off with the mass of the equipment, but I guess, right now I'm ready to take that. We'll see what's the situation later on.

There's so much unique material shot over the years, which has become more or less useless. Nobody really wants 4:3 SD images nowadays. But, I can't go back and ask the animals to do it once more in some nice light conditions.

that's it...that's exactly it...

thanks for the comprehensive review...now i want to go back and play with TINT and see what it does.

Dynamics I've been testing the camera in utmost situations to find out to which extent should I overexposure highlights in high contrast situations. The dynamics of RED is better than anything I've seen before, but still, it seems one should control carefully the balance between highlights in highly contrast situations. Increasing the lows seem to generate noise, at elqast with build 13. Maybe that's one of those things which will change in build 16.

LCD Yesterday when I was shooting I suddenly heard several whopper swans flying towards me. So, I pointed the camera in the direction where the sound was coming from and finally saw the flock. But, for my big surprise, I was not able to find the birds in the LCD. The situation went over in a few seconds and I missed the birds. Such thing had not happened to me after the first years of shooting. But, as soon as the situation was over I realized where the problem was; In all still and videocameras I've had, the viewfinder has always pointed in the same direction as the camera. But in RED, I can set the LCD pointing in any direction. I had set an angle around 30 degress between the LCD and the lens, and for this reason what ever is hardwired in my nerves and muscles over the years was totally confused. I wasn't aware that subconsiously and instinctly I follow the surrounding with my other eye all the time and this helps me to stay on chart! As soon as the LCD and lens did not point in the same direction, I got confused.

Did I already say the LCD is very very nice? In fact, yesterday the colors I saw by naked eye and those in the LCD was so close to each other that for a short moment thought I do not miss an optical viewfinder at all. The WB and Tint is a great tool. Speaking of those, I quite don't understand why there is not a setting in which the light meter did not depend on the chosen WB. If I've processed it right, as long as no pixel is not clipped, one should be on the safe side in post, and this is independent of the WB. Still, have to check I'm not mistaken somewhere.

Here's a 100 fps demo of tits. It's a rather big Cineform avi file.

http://www.luontovideo.net/SlowMotion1-2K.avi

If you don't have a Cineform codec, you can download the free Neo-player form Cineform's homepage.

A common problem when filming tits is to prevent the white cheek from clipping. Especially, the cheek of the great tits gets easily burned. Here, it's just on the limit.

An observation It has been around +2 to +5C here. It seems the batteries can run the camera quite a lot longer outdoors than indoors. This boils down to the Ohmic losses generated within the camera. Cooling outdoors is more effective and thus less power is transferred into heat.

Hi Lauri

Downloaded cineforms NEO but your file only plays for about 5 secs and stops/corrupts !?

Cheers
Mat

Downloaded cineforms NEO but your file only plays for about 5 secs and stops/corrupts

There's some unknown problem with the server. I've tried to ask the operator to sort it out, but no change. However, here are two Window media files which are much smaller:

1920 x 1080: www.luontovideo.net/SlowMotion-HD.wmv
1280 x 720: www.luontovideo.net/SlowMotion-720.wmv

wow, the bokeh on these shots is dreamy...I'm having some similar results. This is the best part about shooting with these cameras...and I love the color control of the RAW workflow.

This is a very nice shot. How are you getting such good results outputting to .wmv - you must have a good PC workflow? I don't work on a PC, but I wonder what you have figured out, to get such pretty images? Since there has been so much complaining about the lack of PC workflow, this might be useful info to share.

How are you getting such good results outputting to .wmv - you must have a good PC workflow?

The RED raw r3d-files were opened in REDCINE. Then adjusted exposure, colors etc. and exported the output to tif-files. In a Premiere Cineform 2K project imported the files with Import file and Automate to sequence commands. Finally, exported the wmv files with Export -> Adobe Media Encoder.

My plan is to use the Cineform workflow after RED releases the SDK.

After 14 1/2 months after making the order finally got the Birger EF-mount. It's a wonderful piece of work and seems to have some surprises that are not yet announced. I live now in the hope that the bluetooth knob, that will make it possible to set the aperture and focus, will also arive soon. That's going to be very a very useful piece of equipment when shooting from a hide. If the knob is delayed, I'm going to program the same functions into my mobile phone (Nokia E90), for I'll really need this in the spring.

My camera is now in the audio board & i-pin upgrade, so I'm not yet able to give good examples of shots taken with EF-lenses. Nevertheless, I can already say, the image quality with the L-series lenses is just wonderful. Once I get the camera back will also post examples of shots taken with the 1.4x and 2.0x teleconverters.

During this winter just by reading the histograms of the LCD I've realized how blue is the light of an ordinary winter day at this latitude. As the natural white balance of the Red One sensor is aroubd 5000K, the blue channel signal is typically at least one stop bigger than the red and green ones. So, to minimize noise in red and green channels it makes sense to filter the blue channel. The easy rule to find the right filter is: The best filter is the one that yields white balance closest to 5000K.

Of course, one should not use the filters if there's not enough light. I mean, filters are useful only when the blue channel clips (enough). If it doesn't, then filtering just added unnecessary noise to the blue channel.

I've been experimenting with 85B, 85C and pure yellow filters and they work out fine. In some cases the 85B&C filters give a gentle and nice "boost" on the red and yellow colors, and the pure yellow filters brighten yellows. For example, I discovered in an ordinary gray winter day, the yellow spots of the Bohemian waxwings (if you don't know the bird, click here (http://www.lintukuva.fi/lajikuvat/bomgar/)) become clean yellow instead of kind of "washed yellow".

Then the other issue. Red One takes about 60W of power, which is quite a lot. Just think of a bulb of 60W. It's the same amount of power generated to heat. However, in the winter time there are some bonuses. First of all, if it's really cold, the camera remains cold and consequently the internal heat losses remain small. So, the same battery that last for 90 minutes in the summer can run the camera up to 2 hours when it's cold.

Secondly, due to the heat the camera body is never that cold, so operating without gloves works out even in very cold conditions for a while. Furthermore, small snow flakes etc. evaporate quickly from the camera. When bringing the camera indoors, I've just kept the camera on, and in couple minutes all humidity disappears.

However, not everything is perfect in cold; The Red EVF does not work in cold. Besides, personally I prefer the LCD over the EVF. In my eyes the LCD has more tones in bright whites, such as on snow fields, and thus find the LCS more pleasant. And in a hide, the LCD is very convinient. Though, one has to make sure one's face lit by the LCD does not appear like a light source for the birds or animals outside the hide.

Now I know the bird, thank you Lauri.

J Paltomaki is some photographer as well. The light in Finland was great in early November '06 (f/9.0 and 1/1000) and the berries were irresistible in the cold .... may have nothing to do with your RED but very pretty pictures of waxwings.

The REDONE has intrigued me since its release and took a serious look at it before I ended up purchasing an EX-3 as I needed a smaller camera for the 'run and gun' style productions I'm producing at the moment.

Very useful user review!

Can you do Varicam-style frame-ramping during a shot like you can with a Super-16mm?

Your footage looks stunning!

Happy shooting,

Paul

My Red One audio board and i-pins were upgraded so now I have all the pieces of puzzle together.

Since during the upgrade the camera was returned back to release build 18 I wanted to update in back to beta build 18. Once did this all the lens data disappeared from the LCD so had to go back to the menus and switch all necessary options on. But still no lens data. So, I thought it's a problem of build 18 and downgraded back to build 17. Again, no data on the LCD. Next, I thought, ok, let's connect the Birger EF-mount to a laptop and let's see then what happens. But now, the laptop did not find a Bluetooth signal from the EF-mount.

Well, I'm not sure what I did, but eventually got the radio link between the laptop and the mount. Still no lens data on the LCD. Back to the menus and then, toggling the lens data off and back to on finally the lens data appeared after a few second delay on the LCD. (The default is the lens data is always on). Then upgraded the camera back to build 18, repeated the same thing, and yes, everything was ok.

Then once started to go through my lens arsenal founded that all the long tele lenses are dead. No reaction with the camera what so ever. Checked them with an EOS body and everything was ok. So, this revealed the problem is somewhere within the mount and camera. After changing some emails with Birger -so nice that Erik answered immediately on Saturday morning- the source of problem were spotted.

I'm trying to say, these modern cameras are wonderful, but also, at this stage the camera user has to be prepared to some issues. After getting the camera back from the upgrade I've spent about 8-10 hours fine tuning the system and I consider myself pretty good with all modern technology. So, today I started to wonder, if one does not have any background in technical matters, at this point this modern route could be somewhat a challenge. Everything will change and work perfectly after a while but as things are now, we are not yet there.

So, I'm still only planning about posting images taken with EF 600mm lens as I have for almost a year. I did test already some time ago the old Canon FD 150-600mm lens and the image was great.

Please don't read this as a negative comment. Instead, I'm very excited about the camera and the Birger mount. It's a wonderful combo, but I'm saying some patient is needed at this point.

Been up in north and spent all day outdoors shooting landscapes as it's the very lasts of this winter that we have trees covered by icy snow. Found the EF 28-300mm/f3.5-5 L lens highly useful with Red One and preliminary the image quality seems to be very good. Today there it changed back and forth from snowing to sun shine every five minutes and a lens from wide angle to a moderate tele is quite useful in conditions when it's difficult to change a lens without getting snow to the sensor.

The good news of the day was that the long lenses will work after a software update to the mount. The newest version of the long lenses such 500mm/f4.0 and 600mm/f4.0 with the IS stabilizer work already with the Birger mount. Found this once had a chance to make tests this evening. The problem is related only to those lenses which havea focus speed switch and as said this will disappear after a software update.

The last weeks I've been generating Cineform avi-files from the Red R3 raw files I've shot during the last year using Redcine. It has been a pleasant surprise to discover that shots taken in rather low light result in very low noise 2K 16:9 avi files.

Grading the raw files require some experience to get the best possible outcome. Redcine is a pretty good tool, it only takes quite a lot of time to export the files. So far I've graded each shot separately and then left the computer to process the files over night.

Here are some samples of what I shot last weekend. The trees covered by icy snow are shot with the EF 28-300mm/f3.5-5 L (camera: 4K 16:9 mode) and a ND filter and the Great Grey Owl with the EF 28-70mm/f2.8 L lens (camera: 2K 16:9 mode).

Fab stuff Lauri, this is one of my favourite owls. Im trying to film Short Eared owls at the moment....if I could only get that range on them! I'm guessing you were about 15 metres ?

I'd love to talk about your beautiful Great Grey Owl, Lauri, but recent photoshopping has wiped out my credibility (temporarily!).

I am much more impressed by the sheer variety in the cast of snow-creatures moving left-to-right across the stage in your bottom-left photo. That is a truly wonderful shot.
I would have thought that only humans of differing ages and sizes could convey such diversity but you have captured all those shapes and movement within a scape of tree tops in frozen snow ... quite bloody marvellous.

Lauri,


How about putting a bit of actual video up on vimeo HD??


Great shots!!!

we are still covered in snow and it is snowing al day today.

At least lauri has trees, Heck I haver a tuff time finding one, eh? ell, at least a naturally occuring one!

Great shots! I could never tell these were taken with a video camera rather than a stills SLR.

My main argument for prefering the EX3 over the RED for wildlife is the limied reach. When I mount a 600mm lens on my EX3 I get an effective 3300 mm lens but when mounted on the RED it is still 600mm.

Ofer - Thats not actually the case, because you can apparently 'shut down' portions of the sensor, so I guess that simply gives more flexibility.

Quote
"In the 4K mode the factor is about 1.4. In the 2K mode there's another factor of 2, so a 400m lens in the 2K mode corresponds to a 1100mm lens in a 35mm SLR camera."

Hi Lauri


Could you post a little clip on Vimeo or other.


Gilles

Ofer - Thats not actually the case, because you can apparently 'shut down' portions of the sensor, so I guess that simply gives more flexibility.

Quote
"In the 4K mode the factor is about 1.4. In the 2K mode there's another factor of 2, so a 400m lens in the 2K mode corresponds to a 1100mm lens in a 35mm SLR camera."

Thanks for the input Mat. A 400mm lens on the EX3 is like a 2200mm lens on a 35mm SLR which is significantly longer the the 1100mm you mention.
Generally speaking, although I have no experience with the RED ONE and I am sure it is a fantastic camera based on the images I have seen, I still think it is not the best camera to use for wildlife. Not enough reach as mentioned, heavy, huge files - looks like an over kill to me if you are not planning to show your work on the big screen.
The EX3 is a fantastic camera, coupled with the Flash XDR - gives you top quality footage which is accepted by every TV channel - 1920x1080, progressive, 4:2:2, 50-100 Mbs.
Cheers,
Ofer

Could you post a little clip on Vimeo or other.

Just returning from shooting in the north. But, yes, I'll create some clip in the near future.

The slight problem is that I'm producing a large document taking couple years and according to the agreement not allowed to post any clips or clips similar to those that will be included in the final document.

Ofer, as Mat said it all boils down to the sensor size and clipping yields larger zooming factor. However, after got Red One I've pretty much given up of making close ups´with long teles. The nice thing of HD is that one can shoot images showing also the environment and I find them far more interesting than close ups. Or whenver I make need close ups I put a short lens and remote control the camera. But, of couse, this is a matter of taste.

However, after got Red One I've pretty much given up of making close ups´with long teles. The nice thing of HD is that one can shoot images showing also the environment and I find them far more interesting than close ups.

Agree. Nature with animals instead of animals in nature ...

Sverker

check LentoVision: Birds (http://www.lentovision.se/faglar_e.htm).

I just got back from a deserted island shoot with RED, Arri / Zeis Master Primes etc etc. It was my first shoot with RED and the project is a feature on Sea Lions....

I loved shooting on RED, and actually found it relatively straight forward, a few little glitches and focusing is extremely critical. Probably the biggest challenge is the sheer size of the rig fully kitted for wildlife. There was only two of us on the shoot and we probably could have done with another at least. I have attached some piccy's below.
The other challenge is the amount of times we needed to lens change which was always a nervous time in the dust and wind.

Here are a couple of pics

http://www.ginclearfilm.com/images/stories/joredsmall.gif

http://www.ginclearfilm.com/images/stories/jon%3Aredsmall_1.jpg


Cheers

Jon

Looks like you get into some great opportunities Lauri with some awesome encounters. I would also like seeing some video. Using a video camera for stills is not the same as a DSLR for stills. Having both a Video Cam and DSLR's I would never dream of capturing still images with my Video Camera as the image quality is just not there for that irregardless of what Video Camera you are using or what the MFG touts.

Hi Lauri

Terrific shots with the Red. I to like the wide shots with wildlife, however, I find the medium and tight shots are also needed for great story telling.

Best,

Leon Lorenz
Canadian Wildlife Productions: Grizzly Bears, Bighorm Sheep in Alberta & BC Rockies DVD Videos (http://www.wildlifevideos.ca)

Here's finally a sample video shot with Canon EF500mm/4.0L lens (without IS) and after 53s there's also the EF 1.4x II extender in front of the lens:

www.luontovideo.net/EF500mm-and-1.4x-sample.wmv

It's all shot in about 10 minutes from our backyard. So, perhaps better not to expect an artistic view. There is also a clear difference between this compressed and an uncompressed file.

Here's the same video in Quicktime file.

www.luontovideo.net/EF500mm-and-1.4x-sample.mov

It's a larger file and at least on my machine looks bit better than the WMV file.

To get a better idea of the image quality, download the free Cineform Neo Player from Cineform (http://www.cineform.com) and open this file with QuickTime Player:

www.luontovideo.net/Squirrel.mov

This one is also shot with the EF 500mm/f4.0 IS L lens, IS set to off.

Personally I like very much the neutral color reproduction and natural sharpness one gets with Red One.

Spent three days in row in a hide. Here's a photo of the equipment I had with me (except the long teles that I left in the hide and the rucksack I carried on my back)--and this is a kind of minimal package.

I'm looking for Epic-X as that will take less power and needs only two seconds to boot up. As a consequence, a lot of weight can be left out from this package.

Here's finally something that I wanted to test and show a long time ago. This image is taken a few days ago with Red One, Birger EF mount, and EF 800mm/f5.6 L IS lens. The image is a panorama (or should I say "tilt") made of three frames grabbed from a clip.

What is rather surprising, there's hardly any color processing behind the image. The clip was opened in RedCine, color space was set to Adobe RGG, gamma curve REC.709 and then I just adjusted temperature and tint, and added only a bit of saturation. Guess the image didn't need saturation at all as the colors early in the morning when the sun had just risen are already rather vivid.

Several people have sent me email asking about audio. In brief, I use a Swedish made Telinga microphone. It's made for bird recordings and have found it a wonderful tool. Then I have a SoundDevice preamplifier and everything is recorded on line level. Adjusting the mic level from the camera menus is slow and for this reason prefer to have a preamplifier. However, the new camera audio is of professional level, so in my view, one did manage without the amplifier, if needed.

A classic example of how one shot can describe so much.

The sort of picture that could decorate any wall anywhere and delight passers-by.

Thank you Lauri.

The sort of picture that could decorate any wall anywhere and delight passers-by.

Brendan, Thank you very much for your kind words which motivate to go on.

After using now for more than a year Red One, whenever I take any other video or DSLR camera in my hands, my attention focuses on the low dynamics that appears on the LCD. The same happens also when I see footages shot with videocameras or when I look at what I've shot myself with my previous videocameras.

My intention is to say nothing exact about the true dynamics of DSLRs. For, that's quite a difficult issue to take sides on based on this kind of experience. However, for some reason I do end up with more dynamics using Red One than with any other camera. Now, this might be because Red One has a raw view. It's not a real raw view, but almost, and especially together with the zebras one gets a very good idea of the highlights and consequently one becomes able to shoot properly to the right without clipping. With DSLRs it seems to be more tricky. The image in the LCD is shown after the gamma map, and thus, at least with my limited experience one quite doesn't know the actual exposure. (Does anybody know wherher the histograms in DSLRs are raw or only after the gamme map?)

Often when I'm shooting I'm with a still photographer who also assists me with my not so light equipment. Typically, when I show him frame crabs from Red One footages he says that he is not able to capture as much dynamics into his images with his DSLRs as Red One does. (We use the very same type of lenses).

Well, summing up, whatever is the true dynamics of each camera, one can well say the more the better in wildlife shooting. Second, the more direct access and control one has to the raw image, the easier it is to squeeze to the limits and get the most out of the camera.

Below is an image taken with Red One in difficult conditions of high dynamics. The outcome is so nice, that it's difficult to realize the sky tended to clip.

Dear Lauri,
Thank you for the update and great information.
The image is absolutely beautiful. I could never tell it wasn't taken with a decent DSLR.

The RED ONE sure looks like a great camera. I currently use the Sony PMW EX3 which I am very happy with. However, I hope to get the RED ONE or one of its next models in the not that far future.
I guess that working with both cameras is the way to go - the RED ONE for the wide angle shots and the EX3 for the extreme telephoto work - that could be AWESOME !!!!

I guess, weight is going to be an issue and setting up will take something like half an hour easy but the result can be magical.
I wonder how will they cut together though – any ideas/experience with cutting the RED ONE with a traditional HD video camera?

Please keep updating - this is wonderful!
Cheers mate,

Ofer

The Red is an incredible video camera, but still image captures from it are a long, long way off what a decent DSLR or film camera can produce (The Red landscape image shows very little detail, especially in the background trees and foreground grass stems when compared to film emulsion or a current full-frame DSLR such as a Nikon D3X. Even an old DSLR of very low MP would easily surpass it in quality).

However, I do understand that the 'raw preview' of the Red is a huge improvement on what is offered by most other video cameras, although it might also be argued that most of them are in a cheaper price frame than a full Red system and so in reality some corners must be shed to cut costs.

The Red system is moving closer towards DSLR full frame quality and in turn, DSLRs are moving towards the flexibility of video cameras, although both are still a long way off merging.

The Canon and Nikon bodies with video options are small add-ons and it will take some years before they can truly be taken on as a viable option for long-term serious tools for a photographer working in both fields. The stills quality from a Red is still way off what is required and the same can be said about a D90 or Mk5.

A Nikon D3x with full-frame video option and full manual control of long video-takes without filling up the memory cards is a dream option for me, but I don't see that happening in the near future.

As someone who makes a living from a mixture of stills photos and movies, it would be wonderful to have a single system that allows me to do both jobs, and it does look like HD DV & DSLR companies are moving in that direction, but it is still a long way off.

In lower cost HDV systems the LCD images are as most of us know, very low rez and difficult to focus correctly. The Red (and a few similar priced systems) do offer huge advantages in this respect.

There are a lot of teething problems still being overcome with the Red system as a whole, although it does produce outstanding footage. But, that being said, so does the EX3 and H1 at a fraction of the price.

Have you ever actually shot nature and outdoors still grabs from a RED camera, Tony? What are you basing these assumptions on? You can pull magnificent stills from a RED camera.

The primary issue in using a RED camera to shoot nature and outdoors imagery is not image quality, it is shutter speed. You can create great video footage or great stills, but it is more challenging to find a subject that allows you to do both at the same time.

Annie Leibovitz, Steven Meisel, Greg Williams, Alexx Henry and other top portrait photographers are shooting RED cameras for covers of Vanity Fair, Vogue Italia, Esquire, W, Madame - so it is pretty obvious that the camera is up to the demands of dSLR work --

I don't think that the convergence of these technologies is that far off - we'll see a lot changing in the next year. Probably in the next six months, actually....

P.S. pretty shot, Lauri! thanks for sharing it.

No, Meryem, I do not shoot or use a Red for stills wildlife photography and don't know anyone who actually seriously does for professional ongoing work unless it is used in the mode as a kind of back-up to the main stills camera system.

It is true that some of the Nick Metcalf images published on the inside pages of the VF magazine of Bruce Willis and of other 'stars' originate from the Red, and even though he used the camera at full 4K instead of the normal 2K video footage, the quality is still far too low for most outdoor photographers to use it as their main stills camera. A decent DSLR or film camera with decent lenses would blow it out of the sky, so I'm not likely to use it for serious outdoor photography in the near future.

However, disregarding stills from the Red, the movie footage is in a different league. I was of course not pulling down the Red camera itself, and certainly not Lauri's wonderful video work. I was just stating that, in my honest view, video cameras are still a long way from what quality stills cameras can produce and visa versa. Yes, the gap is closing, but I certainly don't see it happening in 6-months; more like years.

I also don't think that Lauri was actually implying that the Red would match a stills camera for serious work. Only that the Red was providing Lauri with a superior raw view and more dynamic footage than with any other camera.

certainly no one would use a RED as a replacement for a stills camera, right now - the ridiculous amount of weight alone, by comparison, is off-putting. But it will certainly do in a pinch - there are many opportunities that are lost for stills acquisition, because you have to make a choice between stills and videos -- especially when you are dealing with the "weight carried" versus "distance traveled" conundrum of outdoors shooting. And RED ONE currently does nothing to mitigate this issue, as Lauri's sled illustrates...

..so instead of pulling two heavy loads of gear, you get to pull one really weighty load of gear! not a big enhancement. yet.

but a 6K SCARLET, due for release in the fall, definitely will close that gap dramatically -- hence my six months comment -- and if RED comes through with their intent to make an easily interchangeable lens mount that will allow me to use my Canon lenses, without third-party intervention, and swap those out with PL lenses on a full frame 6K SCARLET, it will be game over.

These are "ifs," granted, but I think the company has delivered enough on their intentions, to date, to be trusted that, if they say they can, they will.

You still currently can pull far better stills from a RED than pretty much any other video (not still) camera - if you're talking about just stills, the EX-3 and the H1, at 1080 are no match for a 4K RED. The video footage from an EX3 can be matched pretty closely at 1080p (I've done it...H1 can't match it unless it is tethered, although the KiPro may have already changed that...), but if you're talking about generating TIFFs from video cameras, it is already no contest.

Yes, Meryem, I'd agree with most of the things you say in your last post. Probably the biggest advantage of all in pulling a single high resolution image from a long section of video footage, is when it captures a subject or action that is unique or unrepeatable. And in wildlife or rarely seen subjects this often is the case.

Ofer, Tony, Meryem, Thank you all for sharing your thoughts and for the compliments.

Let me put it this way --and I think Meryem will agree with me-- the frame grabs from Red One are simply amazing. Often as good as those from Canon or Nikon DSLRs, and thanks to the dynamics of the camera sometimes they are even better. But, also, in some cases not as good as Tony suggests.

The case when the stills from Red One do not meet the quality of Canon or Nikon DSLRs are when there are a lot of details in the image. Such as shots taken with wide angle lenses. And in my understanding the reason for this is very simple; The Red One images are compressed. If I remember right the ratio is 1:5.

But, if the background of the image is out of focus, then the compression is not visible and the Red One stills are in my view just excellent. In fact, it took me some time to realize how good the Red One stills really are. It was beyond my imagination that they could compete qualitywise in any situation with Canon/Nikon DSLRs.

In practice, the only limitation is that I shoot most of the time 25fps and 1/50s. This particular shutter speed is not that exciting for stills and consequently single frames of moving objects typically do not appear as interesting still images. Of course, if I really wanted stills, I could set some other shutter speed.

Epic-X and Scarlet will be rather interesting because they will have ALSO the still image mode. This means, I think, the still images will not be compressed. Furthermore, we also know the new Mysterium-X sensor will have more dynamics (1 to 1,5 stops) than the Red One Mysterium sensor. At that point, which is targeted to this fall, or should I say before that point, I'm going to sell away the DSLR I have. I'm afraid it will become useless. And, I'm not surprised if Meryem feels the same way.

I sort of started writing this exact thing in one of my posts but figured the explanation was lengthier than I wanted to go into...but pretty much, I agree, RED can't compete with still cams at producing landscape or wide angle views - but closer up, with shallow DOF and a nice bokeh, the difference is much less apparent.

The one thing that will cause me to sell off my still camera bodies will be if RED can design an easily interchangeable lens mount, that will allow me to toggle back and forth between shooting styles. As it stands right now, I cancelled my third-party Canon mount -- switching mounts, while it can be accomplished in about half an hour or so, still seems like too much hassle, and definitely not something to do in the field -- studio only.

What exactly is a RED camera???

What exactly is a RED camera???

Caleb, see RED (http://www.red.com)

Meryem, yes indeed feel the same way. In principle changing the current mounts sounds easy, but there are all sorts of pitfalls before getting everything to work properly. Mine works now fine without problems but it has taken an effort to get there.

Once have time, I'll try to make a comparison of wildlife still images taken with Red One and Canon DSLRs. Need first to work out how to fix the lens to the tripod and thereafter change the camera body without moving the lens to get exactly the same images. Once have the images it's no longer about words and opinions but instead everybody becomes able to make their own conclusions.

Caleb, see RED (http://www.red.com)

Meryem, yes indeed feel the same way. In principle changing the current mounts sounds easy, but there are all sorts of pitfalls before getting everything to work properly. Mine works now fine without problems but it has taken an effort to get there.

Once have time, I'll try to make a comparison of wildlife still images taken with Red One and Canon DSLRs. Need first to work out how to fix the lens to the tripod and thereafter change the camera body without moving the lens to get exactly the same images. Once have the images it's no longer about words and opinions but instead everybody becomes able to make their own conclusions.

Hi Lauri,

You don't really have to get wildlife shots in order to make the comparison. It will be easier to do a test with easier subjects which will show the same thing.
Regards,
Ofer

Hi Lauri,

You don't really have to get wildlife shots in order to make the comparison. It will be easier to do a test with easier subjects which will show the same thing.
Regards,
Ofer

Where would the fun be in that?

Where would the fun be in that?
Yes, you are so right!! I actually can never test anything any other way but doing it in the wild....
Please ignore my silly comment.....(-:

While making a search on my old footages discovered that I have taken shots with Red One and XL H1 from the same place. Although the Red One shot is taken in June 2008 on a cloudy and gray day with one of the early camera builds (likely build 15) and the XL H1 shot is taken under bright skies in September 2006, I thought you may also be interesting in a comparison of the two shots.

If I took now a shot from the same place --which I may well do in couple weeks once the indian summer starts-- the Red One image would be (even) better. For, the latest build 20 and the Birger mount allowing me to use Canon lenses produce sharper images than what I was able to take with some second hand Nikon lenses I used in early summer 2008.

The Red One frame was shot on 4K 2:1 mode and I downrez and cropped it to 1920 x 1080.
The XL H1 frame was converted to a Cineform file and then exported to Photoshop with After Effects. The 1920x1080 tif-files can be downloaded from

www.luontovideo.net/Kuusamo-RedOne.tif
and
www.luontovideo.net/Kuusamo-XLH1.tif

Below are also 960x540 jps files. If you give comments, it will be interesting to hear what you say.

More on Red One and DSLR still images later on.