Just a quick question: I'm serious about sound recording quality with my EX1; which headphones would you recommend? Any particular specs required, or will just good hi-fi set suffice?

I use normal hi-fi headphones.
I did a shoot a while ago with the EX and Sennheiser shotgun mic,the bands were on stage with speakers set up but what i was getting through my headphones sounded better than what i was getting through the stage speakers when i removed my headphones.

Paul.

OK, let's just assume we're talking Sennheiser here - which model? Any specific impedance required?

What you see most in the field is Sony MDR-7506s.

$99 from many mail-order pro-gear sources.

Pros like them because while not particularly "accurate" they are very efficient (good volume from modest power sources like camcorder headphone jacks) and have a "presence peak" that supports better monitoing of dialog and other spoken content in field situations.

Remember spoken content is what typically does the heavy lifting in communications pieces, so knowing if you've got the dialog recorded well is often the single most critical part of field recording.

FWIW

I have the 'best ENG headphones' Sennheiser HD25 mk.II. They are really good and recommended for ENG.

I have the 'best ENG headphones' Sennheiser HD25 mk.II. They are really good and recommended for ENG.

Like wot it sez on the box. :)

They are pretty indestructible (a friend has had the first generation headset for ages and apart from a little gaffer tape here and there, it's going strong). I agree having bought my own set having gone through two or three noise canceling Sennheiser sets (wires fell out of the sides).

However, I have to say that they're not the most comfortable cans I've owned. Not the worst, but I wouldn't use them for anything else - whereas the Sennheiser 250s were constant traveling companions (and the reason I switched to a higher bitrate for my iPod rips).

I use Shure E4C's, in-ear-monitors, as I like to be as low-key as possible and also like the portability of them, I can just put them in my pocket. Isolation-wise, they are as good if not better than any over-the-ear headphone I have tried if you can get a good seal with the IEM tips that fit your ears. I would upgrade to a pair of Westone UM2's if I could afford it.

What you see most in the field is Sony MDR-7506s.

$99 from many mail-order pro-gear sources.

Pros like them because while not particularly "accurate" they are very efficient (good volume from modest power sources like camcorder headphone jacks) and have a "presence peak" that supports better monitoing of dialog and other spoken content in field situations.

Remember spoken content is what typically does the heavy lifting in communications pieces, so knowing if you've got the dialog recorded well is often the single most critical part of field recording.

FWIW

For all who are interested in the Sony MDR-7506s, they are $99.00 at B&H with free shipping. B&H is one of our valued sponsors.

Mike

I bought the Sony MDR-7506s and got them from Amazon UK at a cost my PMW-EX1 supplier said was below his cost price.

Having said that I've used my Bose Noise Reduction headphones more than the Sony's. Make my ears sweat but help cut out external noise and ensure I'm hearing what's being recorded.

I bought the Sony MDR-7506s and got them from Amazon UK at a cost my PMW-EX1 supplier said was below his cost price.

Having said that I've used my Bose Noise Reduction headphones more than the Sony's. Make my ears sweat but help cut out external noise and ensure I'm hearing what's being recorded.




Ian,

I'd be VERY careful with this approach.

Nearly all noise cancellation headphones work by sampling the environmental sounds, then making a copy of them, inverting the phase of the sampled sound, and adding it back into the mix at at full level. This works great when the environmental sound being eliminated is completely unwanted - as is the case of jet engine noise when flying.

But using that same technology at, for example a rock concert - what you're doing is taking samples of the BAND sounds out of the environment and inverse-mixing it back in with the BAND sounds you WANT to record.

I think this would have the potential to lead to TERRIBLE mixing in a concert, theatre, or any live recording setting.

FWIW.

Ian,

I'd be VERY careful with this approach.

Nearly all noise cancellation headphones work by sampling the environmental sounds, then making a copy of them, inverting the phase of the sampled sound, and adding it back into the mix at at full level. This works great when the environmental sound being eliminated is completely unwanted - as is the case of jet engine noise when flying.

But using that same technology at, for example a rock concert - what you're doing is taking samples of the BAND sounds out of the environment and inverse-mixing it back in with the BAND sounds you WANT to record.

I think this would have the potential to lead to TERRIBLE mixing in a concert, theatre, or any live recording setting.

FWIW.

Exactly why I did not go with the noise canceling kind. It sounds like a good idea, but perhaps not practical.

What happens if there is a sound you don't want that occurs on a set. These headphones would try to cancel it out and give you a false reading of what is actually there. It is still going to be recorded, but you may not know about it. These have gotten very reasonably priced lately, but I would not use them for monitoring sound.

Mike

I use Sony 7506's on camera, they fold up small and are very comfortable. They are great for blocking out unwanted external noise which is what most HiFi type headphones don't do.
http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusiness/DisplayModel?id=52568

For any quiet editing work and general music listening I use Sennheiser HD650's, they are great headphones but would be useless for on camera stuff as they are open type and allow noise to pass straight through.
http://www.sennheiserusa.com/newsite/productdetail.asp?transid=USHD650

Paul.

We use quite cheap headphones made by Takstar. I have a few Sennys and Sony 7509s. The el cheapo Takstars we buy off eBay leave anything else for dead plugged into a camera unless you have a headphone amp. They are amazingly sensitive, at least 10dB more than the 7509s which are quite expensive. Obviously these cheap cans are not for mixing, for that I've got the good cans fed with enough watts or my studio monitors. But for in the field when at times it's hard to know if what you're hearing is coming out of the cans or leaking into the cans they really cannot be beat.

I use Sony MDR 7506. Look around at sound guys on TV, you will almost always see them wearing these.

Hello, the hd-25 is a very robust and high quality closed studio monitor. This piece is a one time investment. The best headphone i ever used

Ian,

I'd be VERY careful with this approach.

Nearly all noise cancellation headphones work by sampling the environmental sounds, then making a copy of them, inverting the phase of the sampled sound, and adding it back into the mix at at full level. This works great when the environmental sound being eliminated is completely unwanted - as is the case of jet engine noise when flying.

But using that same technology at, for example a rock concert - what you're doing is taking samples of the BAND sounds out of the environment and inverse-mixing it back in with the BAND sounds you WANT to record.

I think this would have the potential to lead to TERRIBLE mixing in a concert, theatre, or any live recording setting.

FWIW.

Thanks for the warning. I'm a little confused here though. I thought the whole point of this was that the headphones cut out external sounds but left the recording source (ie the stuff that comes down the headphone wire) untouched. In such a situation I'm hearing what's going on to the memory cards, which is what I want, unpolluted by external sounds that might be seeping in through the headphones?

Or have I totally misunderstood how they work?

So far I've been happy with the results but the Bose are buggers to carry around so maybe I'll just switch back to the Sony's after all.

Thanks for the warning. I'm a little confused here though. I thought the whole point of this was that the headphones cut out external sounds but left the recording source (ie the stuff that comes down the headphone wire) untouched. In such a situation I'm hearing what's going on to the memory cards, which is what I want, unpolluted by external sounds that might be seeping in through the headphones?

Or have I totally misunderstood how they work?

So far I've been happy with the results but the Bose are buggers to carry around so maybe I'll just switch back to the Sony's after all.

They sound good don't they, but remember you are hearing what the headset wants you to hear not what actually goes on the tape. An external noise that might occur that is canceled in the headset, but not on the recording. Perhaps a noise is louder behind you and not so loud to the mic, but the headset will cancel it out in the headset, not prevent the mic from picking it up.

I know I'm staying away from them. Perhaps you could do a little test for us?

Good Luck----Mike
Mike

Perhaps a noise is louder behind you and not so loud to the mic, but the headset will cancel it out in the headset, not prevent the mic from picking it up.

If the mic is picking it, then it can be monitored via the headset. And only as much as the mic is really picking it, so I guess Ian is right.

I'm going with the Sennheiser HD 25-1 II, though.

The point of he noise canceling headsets is to cancel noise coming to your ears and then add the sound coming through the mic (or whatever) on top of the resulting approximation of silence.

Try a set of them on with no signal connected and you'll see that they create a much better (but far from perfect) listening environment for trying to hear your production sound than passive phones.

There is no reason why NC phones shouldn't give a true indication of what is actually being recorded. They're a closer approximation of a "sound proof booth" to monitor from. The only real caveat is that the noise canceling phones tend to block lower frequencies better than higher frequencies.

But passive phones also block ambient sound with a non-linear frequency response - perhaps blocking high frequencies more then low frequencies.

Anyway, my vote is for a good set of noise canceling phones. They're the lightest and simplest way to create a reasonable listening environment while standing in the middle of the action.

And they'll have no effect on the recorded signal - they'll just allow you to hear it more clearly. Ian is right.

They're the lightest and simplest way to create a reasonable listening environment while standing in the middle of the action.

I think in-ear-monitors would win this title hands-down, and if you get a good pair their sound quality is in many cases as good as the upper-tier over-ear style headphones. They reduce noise at least as well as active noise canceling headphones (arguably better in my opinion) but with none of the active circuitry in the signal path; what you hear is what your camera is recording.

on that note:


http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/hearing-components-comply-nr-10-high-tech-noise-reduction-earphones/

I'm using Etymotic ER-6 in-ear monitors.

They sound pretty good and work very well when it comes to cutting out external noise. It even helps sometimes as earplugs to protect my hearing in loud environments.

http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/er6.aspx

They're also very compact.

The only drawback is that if I'm monitoring audio I can't hear if a director's talking to me. And they can be a bit troublesome to pull out and re-insert too often.

Another vote for Sony MDR7506's. I use 'em for recording live bands in small bar venues. They haven't let me down (yet).

Martin

What about the over-the-ear Bose headphones that don't have noise cancelling? Has anybody used those? Either way, they are probably more expensive then the Sony 7506's because of the Bose name!

I just got off the phone with a Bose tech named Craig, and the active noise cancelling for their Quiet Comfort Headphone do not in any way mess with the audio coming from the camera. I have some first hand knowledge with their headphones as I am a corporate pilot also and we use the Bose Aviaion Headsets in the cockpit and the audio we hear from ATC is no different then when they are turned off. The only thing the noise cancelling does is gets rid of the ambient sounds outside of your headphones.

He stated whatever that microphone on your camera is picking up and recording will be heard through the Bose headsets with no electronic magic being done to that part. The noise cancelling microphone is on the outside of the earcups so as to get rid of unwanted noise that might be making it through your earcups and interfering with what you are hearing and recording from the camera. Sounds to me that this would be the best way of hearing exactly what you are going to have recorded.

The way I see it is that if their is something loud enough like an airplane flying by your shoot at a low altitude, you may not hear the plane directly from outside your headphones(it is trying to cancel that), but if the mic is picking it up, you will hear it through the camera and headphones anyway to let you know that is what is being recorded!

Hope that helps!

Sony 7506. Can't go wrong they are great.

I know this thread is a little old but I wanted to weigh in with an option not yet mentioned. After years of using Sony 7506s, including a memorable moment when I was electrocuted by a short that passed through the metal drivers to my ear tips on a job in Israel after the foam had disintegrated, I recently acquired a pair of Audio Tecnica ATH-M50 headphones. I love them. I do a lot of work editing classical music recordings and it requires accurate depth and detail to make sure the edits are inaudible. These headphones have not let me down. They sound great (all headphones have a "color" of their own) and being closed they isolate well outside sounds. I find them much more comfortable than my old 7506s. They also fold up into a carry pouch and will definitely be a part of my EX1 kit when it arrives tomorrow (fingers firmly crossed).

Oh, my Sony cans have a short at the jack end and sound is intermittent in one ear. The ATs have a steel spring strain relief to protect this critical area and a coiled cord so if someone trips on it it won't break what it's plugged into. I've seen that happen on an $18,000 audio interface!

I've read some amazing things about the M50's so this is good to know. I've been buying Sony 7509's and a few of their V-series predecessors and I love the sound and feel of them. However, the earpads of the Sonys are USELESS. Every Sony headphone I've bought in the last 10 years has started flaking apart within one year. I perspire a lot but this is ridiculous and replacement pads from Sony are fairly pricey. I'm seriously thinking about switching to the AT's. Are the earpads of the M50's true leather or some weird laminated material like Sony uses?

Just got my Sennheiser HD 25-1 II, and I must admit they are absolutely marvellous! I'm feeling like I am inside my EX1 :)

I can actually hear the difference between various mics, whether the low-cut filter is engaged or not in the camera or the mic - not to mention distortion when overloaded, or hiss with sensitivity too low and output cranked up!

NOISE CANCELING: These cans often have terrible low frequency response. The LF from your signal couples mechanically into the noise mic. I'd avoid these, unless you're on a plane with an iPod.

IN-EAR: These have great isolation, but mechanically couple your body sounds and any friction on the cord straight to your ears. Make sure that the cord has a nice loop, and don't eat an apple when wearing them!

MDH-7506: Great for ENG and studio tracking, but not neutral for mixing. Comfortable.

SENN HD 280 PRO: These are quite neutral to my ears, and have good isolation. They're tight and heavy, so they won't fall off, and are rugged, but aren't the most comfortable solution.

BEST ISOLATION: Use in-ear headphones and wear unplugged noise canceling headphones over them. You'll hear your breathing and heartbeat.

Sony MDR 7506,i'm thinking of getting some of these tomorrow.
Quite good reviews on them i see.
Hopefully getting them for £80 brand new.

Paul.

*Didn't read the whole thread.

Anyhow, If you've got the money go for the Sennheiser HD 555 headphones. They're a bit bigger and made for studio environments, but they sound incredible.

http://www.headphone.com/products/headphones/full-size/sennheiser-hd-555.php

Think I tested nearly every headphone on the market in a big music store. My favorite was the AKG K271 (from Austria) which I bought. Very neutral sound... the only negative is that you can not transport them very well and it's also not that robust as some other ENG headphones. I would buy them again.

Just got my Sennheiser HD 25-1 II, and I must admit they are absolutely marvellous! I'm feeling like I am inside my EX1 :)

I can actually hear the difference between various mics, whether the low-cut filter is engaged or not in the camera or the mic - not to mention distortion when overloaded, or hiss with sensitivity too low and output cranked up!

I'll second that. They are fabulous and the ease of use and comfort are great, very good sensitivity and accurate sound, what more can you want?

OK, I'll jump in.

When producing/directing in quiet environments I use the Sony MDR-7506, in somewhat noisy environments I use Sony MDR-V900, in very noisy environments I use the Etymotics ER 6c or ER 4p in ears. If in very noisy environments (think rock concert with 100 - 120db) I use a combination of the V900 and the ER4p with one side of the ER 4p partially out so that if someone wants to talk to me in person I can hear them. With wired or wireless comms I use the same combo but take out the V900 and replace it with the comm headset (usually a heavy Clear-Com).

Akg K 271.

I like the Etymotics a lot. Compact, stay in my ears and produce really good sound quality. Since I work mostly on my own, and often off a tripod, they give me a lot of freedom to work the camera. (I am currently shooting with a Z1 with a mattebox). They are very sturdy, I have had this pair for two years and have used them all over the planet.