I wonder if we can have a sticky for all the free online Avid tutorials. Here are two links I found. They look similar.

http://www.avid.com/community/tutorials/index.asp

http://learn.avid.com/content/tutorials/

As I was going through some of the tutorials listed in my post above, it seemed like the Avid FX plugins are from Boris products? The interface looks exactly like Boris Red or Boris FX. Is Boris owned by Avid?

No, Boris is not owned by Avid. Boris Continuum is included with Media Composer.

Doug Okamoto

I see. So the it's not really "Avid FX" but rather "Boris Continuum". So another word, without the Boris Continuum plugin, there really no Avid FX then, correct?

Are you reffering to the AVID FX suite or simply 'effects' within Avid?

Avid AXP and MC come with their own suite of effects.If you don't buy Boris, you still have chroma keys, and wipes and blend and all sorts of effects that come insie Avid. Additionally, Avid works natively with other third party plug-ins such as Boris.

Just like FCP. Just Like Vegas. Just like Premiere.

What's your point?

I don't have MC so I can't really say what MC has or has not but according to those videos tutorials, it seemed like Avid MC doesn't have much for FX within that price range. And undoubtedly Avid MC is very strong in other points but as far as FX, I'm not sure I see much in MC without the Boris plugin. Any cheap programs off the shelf will have wipes, dissolve, and blend. Now granted that many other programs like Premiere, Vegas, or FCP does require other third party plugins for good FX, they're not in that $2,500 price range.

As to my point, I don't have a point. I'm just trying to learn Avid and evaluating my options. That is why I like others to post any free online tutorials of Avid NLE in this thread so any Avid newbie can learn and know the strengths of what Avid can do.

Thanks for replying though.

Avid MC has some VERY powerfull effects native to it. Boris adds more. But since Boris is PART of the package, and included in the price. (You could spend over a grand for Boris alone) its a wash, isn't it? Take a look at the third party prices for all of the bundled software.

Will you name of of those "VERY" powerful effects native to Avid? According to videoguys.com, BCC 5 AVX cost $850 but I believed what's included in MC is BCC 4 which is $750. So here's what I figured.

BCC 4 = $750
Sonicfire Pro 4 Filmmaker Edition = $375
Squeeze Compression Suite 4.X = $400
DVDit Pro 6 = $300

Total: $1,825

Avid MC: $2,500 - $1,825 = $675

So in actuality, Avid MC is only $675? It's hard to believe. Another hard to believe is, I don't expect Avid MC will be selling at $675 any time soon without those third party software attached.

I got the perspective now.

No, as you pointed out AVID MC is selling for $2500, all those extra apps are simply 'free'. I don't think Boris will be selling BCC for free any time soon.

What are you currently editing on? What was the cost of your NLE and all the third party apps that are included, or you have purchased seperately? What features are you looking for, that you cannot get with the solution you have right now?

I have learned early in my years that there is no such thing as "free". So saying that those extra third party software are "free" is hard to believe.

I'm not after a particular effects or features. I was just wondering what the differences are.

I really like Avid MC but in the process of acquiring MC, I like to know more about it and perhaps justify why I would need MC versus Premiere, Vegas or FCP. I know that for media management and stability Avid is no doubt the very best, but I was very surprise that when I watched a couple of those videos, the effect name says Advid FX but it's actually a Boris product FX. To me, it's a bit misleading.

I'm sure Richard will correct me if I have this wrong. BCC is bundled with MC. AvidFX, which is part of Studio Toolkit and not MC, is essentially a rebranded version of Boris Red. The two are virtually identical. Avid and Boris have been collaborators for many years. Regardless of whether they call it AvidFX or Boris Red, it's a great product! I agree that it's confusing for someone not familiar with the Avid product lineup (like me a year ago). My problem now is finding the time to learn to use all of these amazing tools!

Larry, I agreed. It's quite confusing for someone new like me trying to find out what exactly does Avid MC has. And I think you're right in that Boris and Avid are collaborators, and that's why Avid is able to call Boris Red Avid FX. I don't believed in the idea that all those third party software which worth thousands of dollars are "free" when purchasing Avid MC. I believed those third party software company will not be in business for long if their products are "free". Having said that, I'm curious how much then is Avid MC really worth without those third party add-ons.

And yes, I totally agree that finding the time to learn all those wonderful tools in Avid MC is difficult. And I don't like reading...it puts me to sleep. So that's why I started this thread for mostly video tutorials so I can see the interface and how it's done.

Thanks for replying.

The video tutorials only cover a few aspects of the program.

MC has powerful motion tracking, and 3d effects and compositing independent of Boris. The MARQUEE titling program, is probably the best native titling program of any NLE. And yes, Titles are 'effects'. Listen to the VEGAS people complain about the poor titling within Vegas, and how they use Graffitti for instance.

All NLE's rely on third party supplemental applications to round out their performance. Every. Single. One. Of. Them Does that mean they are not really worth the price you pay?

BORIS Red and Boris CC are slightly different packages. BORIS Red being a larger package, I think it encompases the 'graffitti' package as well, but you can visit Boris homepage for a complete listing of all the packages and how they compare. BORIS alters its packages for different NLE's so that it will open and be accessable within the interface. BORIS for AVID will not run on FCP. BORIS for FCP will not run on VEGAS. Boris for VEGAS will not run on AVID. Is that important to you? Knowing that BORIS is a company that makes a product, and then customizes that product for various NLE's? Does it bother you that other NLE's rely on third parties to supply FX packages, or compression packages or DVD authoring packages or ... ?

As to pricing - only you can determine if a product is 'worth its price' for you. AVID MCA has been selling for double it's price for quite a while now. They've reduced its price by about half, and it's probably still too expensive for your needs. Nothing is 'free' but the volume arrangement and licensing agreement that AVID has with Boris, allows them both to profit from the agreement, or it wouldn't exist. Consider that the 'product' you are buying is only a few cents worth of plastic disc, and a couple of dollars worth of paper manuals - the profit for software is subject to the cost of the research and development. The expense is not in the 'manufacturing' its in the development, marketing and support.

AVID MCA is the 'industry standard' for broadcast/film applications. Final Cut Pro has the larger share of the indy/boutique market. The NLE with the widest distribution is PREMIERE, because it shipped with so many computers.

You have never defined what your needs are. Perhaps MCA is not the right editor for you, at even half its current price.

How much is AVID MC 'really worth'? It's worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. If it's too much for you, it's not worth it.

[QUOTE=Richard Alvarez;849314]The video tutorials only cover a few aspects of the program.

As to pricing - only you can determine if a product is 'worth its price' for you. AVID MCA has been selling for double it's price for quite a while now. They've reduced its price by about half, and it's probably still too expensive for your needs. Nothing is 'free' but the volume arrangement and licensing agreement that AVID has with Boris, allows them both to profit from the agreement, or it wouldn't exist. Consider that the 'product' you are buying is only a few cents worth of plastic disc, and a couple of dollars worth of paper manuals - the profit for software is subject to the cost of the research and development. The expense is not in the 'manufacturing' its in the development, marketing and support.
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Also take into consideration that Avid did not pay the street price Boris charges for their software (or any other manufacturer for that matter). It was probably pennies on the dollar. Most third party manufacturers want to be bundled with a major application, less marketing but higher distribution.

Most software prices are generated by market conditions, how many X amount of customers will pay Y amount of dollars for software for the company to make a profit? That is why Avid can sell Media Composer (software version) now for about half what it was a year ago and now offer upgrade paths for Xpress Pro users for less than $500. They have already made their profit and need to roll in the customers that own software that Avid will discontinue development on.

Right. Neither Avid nor Boris is 'giving away a free lunch' with these upgrades. It's a win-win for them, and as it happens - it works out great for me and I suspect a lot of other Avid users.

Many people will wait to upgrade, and that's great too. The upgrade is permanment, it's not a limited time offer.

Avid will save development money by focussing their staff on only one version of the software - Media Composer. They'll make up the discount priceing and go head to head with the other suites, while offering THE EXACT INTERFACE used in Film/Broadcast markets.

Their student pricing is brilliant too. Hopefully, they'll get the penetration back in the schools that has fallen off to FCP.

Not 'bashing' FCP - I'll get a copy for my new MAC BOOK Pro when that comes to it - The more you can do, the more you will do.

Many people will wait to upgrade, and that's great too. The upgrade is permanment, it's not a limited time offer.

Absolutely. I'm one who will wait, given that the upgrade has no cut off point. I'll wait until I need something in Media Composer that I don't have in Xpress Pro. At least I might be able to skip a major release or two that I would have to pay for in addition.

I agree with learning FCP as well, Richard. It's just obvious that it's necessary in today's market if you want to get freelance editing work.

I'd be careful about waiting too long... Remember Avid is discontinuing selling Xpress Pro soon (June 30, 2008) and a paid update to Media Composer is due soon (the last download version from 2.x to 2.7 was $295 the full update was $995), so there is nothing that says Avid can't discontinue the upgrade offer, I would say definitely by the cut off of when they will discontinue support of Xpress Pro (2013) and possibly by the next full release of Media Composer.

An important note, according to the Avid store website, you can purchase the download version of the upgrade for $395. That doesn't include Boris Continuum, Sorensen Squeeze, SonicFire, or Avid DVD from Sonic. I think not as good of a deal as the physical shipment for $495. Also note that right now the Avid store site is saying 2 weeks to get the physical documents and discs.

Last year when Apple upgraded to Final Cut Studio 2 they originally said that you needed to be at the Universal version (I believe it was V1.2) to get the upgrade price ($499) which didn't make any sense since the Universal upgrade price was $20 and from V1.0 (and from Pro and Production Suite) the price was $699! Apple abandoned that quickly and made it from V1.0 for the upgrade.

I've found that a combination of FCP and Media Composer is a great thing. Giving a director a choice of editing package brings alot more business in and gives them more confidence in you if they don't know you already.

I'm not sure the upgrade deal is permanment or not. I know the the next big release version. v. 3.0, will be for both Leopard and Vista and the upgrade deal could stop there. So, Avid is hoping to get everyone migrated to Media Composer now making the transition to v. 3 easier for everyone later.

My 2 cents.

From the Media Composer upgrade FAQ:

http://www.avid.com/products/media-composer/MCSavingFAQ.pdf

"Q: I would like to upgrade my Avid Xpress Pro software to Avid Media Composer later, when Avid has a Leopard- or Vista-suppported version Will the upgrade still be available?

A: Yes, the upgrade will continue to be available through the planned Leopard and Vista releases. We are not making any futher announcements at the moment about the availability dates for these releases."

So it seems safe to wait for at least the next major update.

Thanks Vito. Then it will be interesting to see if they charge current Media Composer 2.8 to move to Leopard/Vista versions. With that possible, but in no way confirmed scenario, I might wait to upgrade my own stuff and go ahead and buy a Quad Core Vista machine soon. I saw an HP with 4 Gb of memory for under $1,000. Use my current setup on Xpress and then get the upgrade at v.3 when it comes out.

Meanwhile, my largest client, who just purchased Xpress one month ago, has agreed to upgrade to Media Composer. It's running Xpresss on an octo MAC with 8 GB ram. Media Composer should run very well.

Yeah, I'm dying to get the new Mac Pro 8 core. I'll continue to run Xpress Pro on my PC and get the upgrade to install Media Composer on Leopard when the new version comes out. I'll be able to buy FCP as well and learn that.