Sony has confirmed that the backfocus problem with ND filters engaged is real and supposedly they have a fix. My camera just went in so I have my fingers crossed.

Recent cameras should already be fixed. software v1.05 is supposedly the fix. Sony repair in San Jose by the way has been very nice about dealing with this.

here is how to check it:

How to check Back Focus ( check this on a large monitor):

1. To allow for distant infinity focus, it is best to setup the camera outdoors ( this is not neccessary for a video camera but is for film or still lenses)

2. With ND filters off, zoom in ALL the way and focus on a distant object over 25 feet away (if you are indoors try it at closer distances at least 10').
KEEP YOUR APERTURE WIDE OPEN @ f1.9 THIS IS CRITICAL.
Depending on the available light, you may need to increase your shutter speed to not over expose, or perhaps even engage extra Gain as you change filter wheels.

3. Once you've focused on your distant object, zoom out full wide.
The wideangle is what we are most concerned about. That's where it will go off and you won't see it while shooting.
The wide image should still remain in focus.

4. Repeat this test with each ND setting. The camera should remain in focus regardless of the ND setting.

5. At both telephoto and full wide while keeping the aperture @ f1.9, flip through no filter then with ND filters.
The camera should remain in focus regardless of the ND setting.

Hope I explained this right its late.

Lenny Levy

So if anyone has this problem,then software v1.05 will fix it,so no need to send the cam back to Sony ? Just wait for the software to be released then download and install ourselves ?
That sounds like good news.

Paul.

My camera came back from repair two days ago and it still has the backfocus issue. The new firmware V1.05 was installed and the backfocus is worse than it ever was before... So this did not fix the problem for me - I hope it will for others.
They will hopefully send me a new camera now, we are working on a solution.

cu,
Gerald

I ran the test using a test chart at 20 feet indoors f1.9 manual focus. The camera holds focus in all cases viewing on a 46" Bravia. I can't see any difference.
But here's the strange part, when fully wide the difference when the focus is adjusted is extremely minimal as you would expect.
Are you suggesting that the focus issue you are speaking about is an extreme change in focus that is noticable? BTW. my EX1 is less than a month old.
Best, Craig

I ran the test using a test chart at 20 feet indoors f1.9 manual focus. The camera holds focus in all cases viewing on a 46" Bravia. I can't see any difference.
But here's the strange part, when fully wide the difference when the focus is adjusted is extremely minimal as you would expect.
Are you suggesting that the focus issue you are speaking about is an extreme change in focus that is noticable? BTW. my EX1 is less than a month old.
Best, Craig

can we confirm that you can download and install the update ourselves, no one has confirmed that. if so how exactly step by step?

is there a way to see what version is in the camera now?

are they still making cameras with the problem or did they fix it and if so is there a certain number of serial numbers to look for?

can you see it while filming, or only when you watch it back

to see your firmware version, you need to access the service menu by holding down the "cancel", "select/set" and "menu" buttons simultaneously

Here's what sucks big time - You can't put in the firmware yourself like with an HVX - has to go back to Sony. Is that stupid or what!.

lenny

I ran the test using a test chart at 20 feet indoors f1.9 manual focus. The camera holds focus in all cases viewing on a 46" Bravia. I can't see any difference.
But here's the strange part, when fully wide the difference when the focus is adjusted is extremely minimal as you would expect.
Are you suggesting that the focus issue you are speaking about is an extreme change in focus that is noticable? BTW. my EX1 is less than a month old.
Best, Craig
Craig,
did you also test it with ND on?
There is a pretty long thread going on where you can read everything about the backfocus problem and also see some pictures:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=108433&page=37

Not all cameras do have this problem but a lot EX1´s seem to be be affected.

You might double check the backfocus by doing it outside where the distance to infinity is greater to confirm no problem - but yes you should see the wide angle go out. For me I noticed that with ND in the wide angle focus of trees at a distance only got sharp if I focused close to around three feet while at telephoto I was around 30'. With ND out I was smack on infinity for both.

I hope Gerald's experience will not be mine when I get my camera back.

lenny

Gerald, it makes me wonder if they installed the new firmware, but did not run the backfocus setup procedure correctly.

I wonder if you need to run it in all three conditions, ND OFF, ND1 ON, and ND2 ON?

Just a guess...

Steven,
I´m sure they did not do the set up correctly.
I have tried it for myself with ND on/off and both ND filters to no avail.
I think my camera has some more serious problem.
I´m waiting for their decision now on how to continue. Yesterday they said that I might get a new camera which they just got in as a loaner camera for their service department in the Netherlands. They just have to find out if they are capable to install the new firmware there before they can send it to me.
Let´s see...

Sending back to Sony for Firmware is crazy, Imagine when they need to upgrade the Firmware for the Camera to be able to except the cheaper SxS cards...Every owner will need to ship there camera back to have this done???
I think right now the only way to get the firmware updated is by sending it in because they do not have a public realease that is available for download yet.
Once they release a version for download we should be able to perform this ourselves by way of USB...only reason that we would have to ship back to them would be is if they went back to the stone age and have to replace an actual chip each time to upgrade the firmware...Knowing Sony this is not the case..It will probably be similar to PSP and PS3 updates.

Leonard, I followed your sequence at first indoors and did not notice anything unusual. Then, I brought the camera outside, shot the trunk of a palm tree which and hoirizontal lines at f1.9 ND on at 250sec., and when I put racked the focus from distant to close, the image became sharper instead of more blurry as would have been expected. I performed the test several times and I was surprised that it was the same each time.
I then called Sony and was talked through how to have the camera perform an automaitic Flange Back adjustment.
I repeated the testing process and the image is sharp as a tack through the zoom and goes out of focus as expected when the focus is readjusted to close.
Hope this encouraging news. I am somewhat concerned about talking about the sequence because I would not want anyone to make matters worse if the procedure was done incorrectly.
Sony can talk you though it over the phone though.
Best, Craig

Leonard, I followed your sequence at first indoors and did not notice anything unusual. Then, I brought the camera outside, shot the trunk of a palm tree which and hoirizontal lines at f1.9 ND on at 250sec., and when I put racked the focus from distant to close, the image became sharper instead of more blurry as would have been expected. I performed the test several times and I was surprised that it was the same each time.
I then called Sony and was talked through how to have the camera perform an automaitic Flange Back adjustment.
I repeated the testing process and the image is sharp as a tack through the zoom and goes out of focus as expected when the focus is readjusted to close.
Hope this encouraging news. I am somewhat concerned about talking about the sequence because I would not want anyone to make matters worse if the procedure was done incorrectly.
Sony can talk you though it over the phone though.
Best, Craig

Craig,
I understand your concerns about users making matters worse instead of better. However the procedure has been posted here and not all of us can talk to Sony over the phone. So please if you could describe the procedure you were told to use it could be very beneficial, possibly the procedure many have been trying to use is missing some vital piece of information,

Craig,

Thanks, I thought maybe I should more stronglty suggest doing it outside because the added distance makes the misadjustment more obvious.

Was the process Sony explained the same one that has been posted here - to run the Back focus adjustment in the maintenance menus?
I did mine both with and without ND filters and it still was not right for the ND.

Did you try it with and without ND to make sure you got the same results?

- Lenny

Leonard, I only ran it with the ND filter, and only tested it after it was calibrated with the ND filter. Yes. it was the maintainence with auto flange back. There was a remarkable difference in focus after it was calibrated. I'll now have to try tomorrow without the ND on and wide open to see if the results are also good. Thanks.
Best, Craig

Leonard, I ran the test again with no neutral density filter and all was fine. So, at least for my camera the only problem was the flange back adjustment. I will keep an eye on this problem to see if vibration/temp. will cause it to go out of adjustment.
Hope your isssue works out.
Best, Craig

Just spoke to someone at Sony about FW upgrades. They have no plans to allow users to upgrade. Not even authorized service centers. This is ridiculous. It is possible to damage the camera if it is done wrong, but I don't think I should wait 7-10 days for them to remove a cover and plug in a cable. I've done more advanced procedures on more advanced cameras, I'd much rather sign a waiver than lose my camera for 1-2 weeks. Sorry for the rant, but I'm getting a bit annoyed with Sony.

-Sean

Just spoke to someone at Sony about FW upgrades. They have no plans to allow users to upgrade. Not even authorized service centers. This is ridiculous. It is possible to damage the camera if it is done wrong, but I don't think I should wait 7-10 days for them to remove a cover and plug in a cable. I've done more advanced procedures on more advanced cameras, I'd much rather sign a waiver than lose my camera for 1-2 weeks. Sorry for the rant, but I'm getting a bit annoyed with Sony.

-Sean

My camera that I purchased over the weekend came with the newer FW. Anyone purchasing the cameras nowadays will be getting the new FW automatically I believe.

Well, I just bought mine got it last week and it has the old FW....Not a big deal to me right now because my Camera seems to be working great so far..But I do not know what the new FW update does so it may fix some bugs... It is hard for me to believe Sony expects all customers to ship their cameras back for a FW update when one is needed...Maybe they have no plans of ever allowing cheaper 3rd party SxS cards to work with the Camera after all? Can you imagine the backlog of cameras awaiting a FW update...You might be without your Camera for over a month. Once this news gets out Sony is going to feel some serious backlash from customers. Yes a FW upgrade can possibly kill the camera usually it would not be fatal but would require it be sent to service. Now on the other hand trusting your Camera to the shipping companies each way for a simple software update is more of a concern for me as your camera has more of a potential to get lost or destroyed in route to Sony.

Sorry for my Rant as well...But Sony needs a wakeup call.

nevermind





.........................

You really have to look at this carefully. My buddy tested it and thought his camera was fine then asked me to double check. It was off.

The trick is when you go wide, see if it gets sharper when you roll the focus back to 3' or so. Obviously it should not. You should certainly try the Sony back focus adjustment to see if that fixes it.

how do you check the camera to see what firmware you have?

how do you check the camera to see what firmware you have?

Press and hold the cancel button and menu button at the same time. Continue to hold these buttons and then hit the SEL/SET button. 3 more menus will show up below the regular menu items. Scroll down to the IF icon. Select that and you'll see your serial number and the firmware version number appear.

- Don

I bought mine last week and I have the old firmware V1.03_0351
SN 0101754

Today I fixed the backfocus problem for myself, just before I wanted to return my EX1 for another exchange.
I did the FB-adjustment procedure once again - but this time I used 12 backfocus charts side by side (actually 4 columns and 3 rows), which I attached to a white wall of my house.
I did the procedure for each ND - setting separately. Looks like only 1 backfocus chart was not enough to fix my problem. The camera was 3m away from the charts - aperture of course wide open.

Maybe this trick will work for others as well.
The sad thing is that Sony could not fix it in 3 repair attempts.
I hope it will stay like this now.

My camera has the new FW 1.05.

Maybe this technique will help others as well.

regards,
Gerald

Awesome Gerald!

Great news man.

Hey, I'm wondering if the firmware v1.05 is needed to have this three way correction (ND off, ND1 on, ND2, on) work?

Adam Wilt said with his camera, only one could be set at a time.
Maybe v1.05 addresses this issue.

I'm hoping Sony actually releases what version 1.05 offers.

Adam also mentioned, when the camera goes wide to make sure nothing but the focus chart is in view on the blank wall.

My experience was the same on my friend's camera - 2 (not 3) different backfocus settings. One for ND off, and one for both "ND on" settings.

I'll find out his firmware version.

Adam also mentioned, when the camera goes wide to make sure nothing but the focus chart is in view on the blank wall.

I tried it about 30 times before on the same wall (with the old and the new FW), which is plain white, nothing in the view of the wall. The only difference to this time was that I only used one focus chart (Siemens Star) before. Today with 12 charts it worked...
Looks like it needs some very clear targets to be able to focus correctly while being wide open.

cu,
Gerald

That makes sense, it's possible that Sony japan is using a much larger target and field support is not aware of the particulars.

I did my backfocus againn today,with ND 1 engaged whilst doing the adjustment. Backfocus now looks better with ND 0 and 1 and 2.
Here's some before and after pics,both with ND off.
The adjustment was done,about 5 metres from the chart. I used the siemens star, only 1 chart. Interesting what's been said here though about multiple charts.
Pic on the left before adjustment,pic on the right after. Both 1080/50i HQ,with Bills pp,with detail on.


Paul.

Here's another pic with ND1 engaged.
Paul.

Paul, what version software do you have?

Press and hold the cancel button and menu button at the same time. Continue to hold these buttons and then hit the SEL/SET button. 3 more menus will show up below the regular menu items. Scroll down to the IF icon. Select that and you'll see your serial number and the firmware version number appear.

- Don

Concerning the Firmware:

I tried it and nothing came up.

a. Does it matter which cancel button top or back of the camera?
b. The SEL/SET is the only on the top handle right?
c. Camera should be on camera mode of course?
d. When I press the Menu and Cancel on the back either the main menu appears or disappears. Then I press the SEL/SET on top handle and nothing happens.

Pavlos,
SEL/SET is not on the top handle but the scroll wheel on the back of the camera. Only use the three buttons on the back of the camera and the menu button on the left rear.

Gerald,
your 4x3 A4 back focus chart configuration, were they siemens stars?

If so, I'd like to use the same chart you were using. Could you point me to a download?

Paul, what version software do you have?

Old software,mine is V1.02-337

Paul.

Concerning the Firmware:

I tried it and nothing came up.

a. Does it matter which cancel button top or back of the camera?
b. The SEL/SET is the only on the top handle right?
c. Camera should be on camera mode of course?
d. When I press the Menu and Cancel on the back either the main menu appears or disappears. Then I press the SEL/SET on top handle and nothing happens.


Here's a demo i did on Vimeo.

http://www.vimeo.com/819802

Paul.

yes Siemens star:
I used this one:
http://www.striemerfilm.com/archiv/page31/files/Siemensstern.pdf

Gerald,i noticed you put some back focus pics up on the vignetting thread aswell,shall we keep all the backfocus stuff on here or even start a new thread of "before and after" pics ?
Also stating the method used regarding chart designs,number of charts used (12 in your case),distance from cam to chart,wether adjustment was done with NDoff or 1 or 2.
And firmware of the cam.
If everybody who does this test gives the same info it'll give us all some sort of reference.

Your pics look damn sharp,probably the sharpest i've seen.

Paul.

Pavlos,
SEL/SET is not on the top handle but the scroll wheel on the back of the camera. Only use the three buttons on the back of the camera and the menu button on the left rear.

Thanks Gerald
Version: V1.05_0405

Both cameras came back this afternoon from Holland. I had little time to conduct tests before it got dark outside.
Backfocus looks much better from what I can see. Nonetheless I will conduct more tests tomorrow morning because it's peach black outside now in Athens.
I will also check for vignetting.
Funny thing is that when I tried to mount on one of the EX1s its battery I could hardly fit it in the slot. Well guess what? Under the battery compartment there is little philips screw. I unscrew it only to realize that it was too long and when it was screwed in it pressed the battery compartment so the battery wouldn't fit correctly. I had to unscrew 11 screws from the other places on the camera to finally find that the long screw belonged somewhere else and a narrower screw should not be placed there but underneath the battery compartment.
Well I guess those people at SONY Prime Support must be in a lot of rush to mix different sizes of screws. Those guys must be really busy dismounting EX1s. That proves that the camera was opened or tried to at least. I don't know if they conducted the back focus adjustment through the service menu, they sure did a screw relocation though!

Gerald,i noticed you put some back focus pics up on the vignetting thread aswell,shall we keep all the backfocus stuff on here or even start a new thread of "before and after" pics ?
Also stating the method used regarding chart designs,number of charts used (12 in your case),distance from cam to chart,wether adjustment was done with NDoff or 1 or 2.
And firmware of the cam.
If everybody who does this test gives the same info it'll give us all some sort of reference.

Your pics look damn sharp,probably the sharpest i've seen.

Paul.

Paul, thats a good idea. The information is spread over so many threads now. Might be a little difficult to find everything if you missed one thread.
I have to leave for work now (shooting a soccer game) - would you volunteer to open a new thread?

I just tried to open a new thread but couldn't upload the same pics again.
I'll open the thread anyway so as people can start uploading their pics.

Paul.

Here's a demo i did on Vimeo.

http://www.vimeo.com/819802

Paul.

Paul,

Many thanks for your demo - fascinating to see how the camera does the auto flange back. It also makes it clear why having multiple charts on a flat surface helps; the camera must struggle to get a focus when wide in your workshop with lots of targets with well defined edges as far back as your window then out to infinity. Might be worth trying again if you have a flat surface large enough to fill the image when wide.

Cheers, Nick

Gerald when you do your BF adjustment with 12 8"x11" charts at full wide do you only have a white wall in the frame? I do not have a spot that is that big a white surface at 3 meters.

Paul,
yes I only had a white wall in the frame - nothing else.
I think you also could go a little closer - but thats only speculation...

cu,
Gerald

Thanks for all the info.

I have today made up a large piece of plywood with 12 A4 BF charts on it and intend to follow your process tomorrow by placing the plywood against a vertical wall outside. I will post the results.

Hi, I am trying all day now to reproduce your recipe, and I really doubt, that the camera stores backfocus settings for each position of the nd filter switch.

I came up with results that seemed to proove this but, when I had a chance to check real far away infinity focus, I always saw differences.

I think your method is very good to help the fb autoadjust to do its job as good as possible.
But I´m pretty shure, that it just remembers the last run, no mather if it is that with or without nd filter.

After a day of fumbling around I came up with a setup that has only slight focusloss in the nd settings and is perfect without nd filter.
I think I´ll keep that and use external nd filters as often as possible.
Thats for an earlier firmware (1.02).

Is anybody absolutely shure that other firmware versions store the backfocus settings for each nd filter setting?

I was, as long as my far focus reference was at about 20 meters distance. But as I rechecked that settings with 100 meter away objects I had to admit, that in fact it was not on the spot.

Regards
Holger

Is anybody absolutely shure that other firmware versions store the backfocus settings for each nd filter setting?
Holger, we should simply ask a Sony technician about that.

Hi, I am trying all day now to reproduce your recipe, and I really doubt, that the camera stores backfocus settings for each position of the nd filter switch.

I came up with results that seemed to proove this but, when I had a chance to check real far away infinity focus, I always saw differences.

I think your method is very good to help the fb autoadjust to do its job as good as possible.
But I´m pretty shure, that it just remembers the last run, no mather if it is that with or without nd filter.

After a day of fumbling around I came up with a setup that has only slight focusloss in the nd settings and is perfect without nd filter.
I think I´ll keep that and use external nd filters as often as possible.
Thats for an earlier firmware (1.02).

Is anybody absolutely shure that other firmware versions store the backfocus settings for each nd filter setting?

I was, as long as my far focus reference was at about 20 meters distance. But as I rechecked that settings with 100 meter away objects I had to admit, that in fact it was not on the spot.

Regards
Holger

Holger,
I´ve tried it with cameras with a later firmware version - FW 1.03 and FW 1.05 and it worked. I´ve tried it with objects that were about 600m away...
It works perfectly now as you can see on the pictures I posted and I switched between ND filters very often.