Any news on the version that doesn't relay through the JVC stock lens? ... timeframe?

Appr end of april, start of may!

Appr end of april, start of may!

ugh, another month to wait :(

If the Letus guys needs help, please contact me, When you gonna relay the device...??? Please be serius.... :/

Take a look at Fresh DV video interview with Hien at NAB. He talks about the Letus Ulitmate and the relay lens. It's an interesting interview (despite the terrible mic usage)

http://www.freshdv.com/2008/04/nab-2008-letus35-ultimate.html

He says the B4 relay will be about 4500 dollars and be out in a couple of months. I would be realistic and not expect it before August.

I heard Hien say this also. But come on, $4,500.00 for a simply relay lens? I swear he was talking about the price of the Ultimate.
-C

Note that this is speculative comment on my part, not based on any business knowledge or specific research, so please read with a jaundiced eye.

The B4 mount is not the mount system of the JVC GY HD--- or Canon XL camcorder families.

The $4,500 suggested might well be an ambit price which might come down a little if other alternative adaptor vendors also adopt the large format Letus relay and some economies of scale can come into play. The relay for B4 mount may have an even more restricted market for any number of reasons, not the least being the RED camera system or competing large format systems which may erupt into being in a short timeframe. An unsold inventory of custom lenses could be financially disastrous.

The P+S Technik product for B4 mount is the Pro35, which is a significantly different design to the Mini35 although there are some common components. From groundglass to flange of camcorder mount, it is shorter. The wider field-of-view of the 2/3" imager demands this. More finesse needed in the flip path to accommodate the wider field of view of the 2/3" camcorder to fit all the physical parts in without vignetting. It also costs much more to buy.

There are some problems associated with a wider video imaging area as enthusiastic adopters of the EX1 and its 1/2" system have discovered related to edge softness. 2/3" imagers associated with the B4 mount may offer even more difficult challenges.

My own playing around has revealed to me at least, that there is a more elegant solution required than the simple bunging of an achromat on front of a prime lens and pulling the GG closer if distortion-free and sharp image quality is to be had.

Across the entire population of Letus Extremes or Letus Ultimates to be sold, how many will be JVC GY-HD100 versions which require filpping?

Then there will be a related but different design required for the Canon XL family.

When existing mass produced parts can be bought in from third parties, costs might be kept down. Having a lens system designed, bugfixed and manufactured from scratch for a limited market is not a cheap exercise. If Quyen and Hien go it alone without other alternative adaptor vendors taking it up, then the price may become comparable to what P+S Technik charge for their products as the same costs and market returns then exist.

Give the brothers time and let them get it right because you are asking them to jump into a pretty deep pool this time round.

I'll second that Bob.

When I first heard of this relay I always hoped it would be separate from p+S prices, but had a feeling it would be about this price.

I reckon if you took a straw poll of 35mm DOF adaptor users out there, the smallest proportion of users will be on the JVC's.

To invest in design, development and testing of a new lens for a multitude of differing cameras is not cheap. You also have to bear in mind how long people will keep buying your project and make a calculated assumption that sales will only last so long on the JVC for example. In my mind once all DOF adaptor users with JVC's have bought this relay, there will be very few future orders. It's about guessing how many you're going to sell to. Hopefully someone can disagree with good reason?

I'd have said that on the one hand, this relay will make the JVC more desirable than it already is. On the other, JVC's inability to compete with the rest of the major players in developing a next stage camera to rival the EX3 or 1 even will inevitably lead to a drop in unit sales. We are already considering the EX3 for our next camera. I personally prefer the physical build of the GYs to any Sony prosumer camera, but the EX3 knocks the socks off the JVC and their gesture of an upgrade with this ugly bolt on HDD/firestore unit does not convey much commitment on the part of JVC. I digress!

I think when you consider the work involved in designing a relay 4500 might be a tad high. I'd like to see it priced at around 2000, but we'll have to wait and see. Now the main thing to bear in mind is how much everything adds up to. 1000 for the adaptor, 4500 for the relay, well, you're in P+S miniC territory! What would you rather have for your JVC?

Letus need to be very careful here and get this price spot on as you might end up finding no JVC owners buy it at all! and those that can afford it sell their Extremes and buy a P+S miniC!

We'll have to wait and see!

I'll second that Bob.

When I first heard of this relay I always hoped it would be separate from p+S prices, but had a feeling it would be about this price.

I reckon if you took a straw poll of 35mm DOF adaptor users out there, the smallest proportion of users will be on the JVC's.

To invest in design, development and testing of a new lens for a multitude of differing cameras is not cheap. You also have to bear in mind how long people will keep buying your project and make a calculated assumption that sales will only last so long on the JVC for example. In my mind once all DOF adaptor users with JVC's have bought this relay, there will be very few future orders. It's about guessing how many you're going to sell to. Hopefully someone can disagree with good reason?

I'd have said that on the one hand, this relay will make the JVC more desirable than it already is. On the other, JVC's inability to compete with the rest of the major players in developing a next stage camera to rival the EX3 or 1 even will inevitably lead to a drop in unit sales. We are already considering the EX3 for our next camera. I personally prefer the physical build of the GYs to any Sony prosumer camera, but the EX3 knocks the socks off the JVC and their gesture of an upgrade with this ugly bolt on HDD/firestore unit does not convey much commitment on the part of JVC. I digress!

I think when you consider the work involved in designing a relay 4500 might be a tad high. I'd like to see it priced at around 2000, but we'll have to wait and see. Now the main thing to bear in mind is how much everything adds up to. 1000 for the adaptor, 4500 for the relay, well, you're in P+S miniC territory! What would you rather have for your JVC?

Letus need to be very careful here and get this price spot on as you might end up finding no JVC owners buy it at all! and those that can afford it sell their Extremes and buy a P+S miniC!

We'll have to wait and see!

Now what I heard for the hd100 relay lens price was quoted to me at $1200 and under... If the price of the relay lens alone is anything over that, you've got to be kidding me. This quote came from letus to me directly. This was also over 3 months ago. If you're going to spend 4500 on a relay alone, you are wasting your money in my opinion. Listen, I love letus and what they have made so far, I own a Letus Extreme. But quite honestly if they are going to have something be around $7,000 for the adapter and relay, you wouldn't be getting your monies worth. Then you should just get a P+S mini35 which is honestly built way better and much more of the professional device to be had.

The letus device is very bulky and should very much have built in the rails like the mini35, and slimed down the overall size. If you are in the range of the 7K prices, you very well better have a product worth it. For the price of the relay alone on the Letus (thats if the 4.5K price is true) $4500 you could buy a P+S mini35 300 series with jvc relay lens and any lens plate you want... I don't think ANYONE in their right mind would spend the money on letus, over the mini, not at that price.

I hope they make the right move, because there will be a lot of people upset at the false hope they had of their product. They came out with a LetusHD100 for $900 bux with a built in relay... sure there was a 1.8x factor and an extra stop of light loss, but look at the prices now... from 900 to almost 7k... they have made improvements, but not any that could justify an increase of that kind of price. The build and design of the mini35 is amazing and extremely professional. Its solid and accurate. Its truly a professional device. Until you are at that level, you shouldn't price even close, and im sorry to say, they aren't close.

sorry for the rant, its late, i'm tired, and I just want my letus relay that I've been waiting for, for months now. This is starting to look like RED all over again...

Just to be sure I have not sown confusion, - the proposed relay for B4 mount can NOT be for JVC GY-HD--- or Canon XL camcorder families but for the likes of big ENG style systems. Think Betacam SP or HDW950.

The $4,500 mentioned above was for B4 mount.

The MINI35C is not for all of the JVC GY-HD--- camera family or Canon XL camera family as it is ilke the Redrock M2 and does not flip the image.

It is for cameras which have the inbuilt flip function like the JVC GY-HD250, or for operators of non-flip cameras who are happy to flip in post for the lesser light loss of the non-flip adaptor.

Now I'm maybe a bit confused here.

I thought the B4 was for all chip sizes, different models for different cameras. So Bob, are you saying that the only relay Letus are bringing out is for 2/3 inch cameras?

I distinctly remember hearing that there would be one to fit the GYs.

Maybe clarification from Letus would be good at this point, and if possible a ballpark figure for each model.

Letus, are you guys reading?

I'd like to know the answer on this as I'm placing an order with Zacuto this week for an Extreme plus kit, and don't want to find I've wasted our money, when a P+S miniC would have been the better option. I'm only ordering the Letus because of the forthcoming relay!!

Stuart

No. Previous posts here have suggested Le Bros are developing a JVC GY-HD--- relay.

The more recent post above suggests that they are going the extra mile and developing another relay for B4 mount as well, which would mean that JVC owners would not miss out.

I understand the same relay for JVC may have utility with the Sony Z7?? camera which apparently uses the same lens mount as the JVC GY-HD--- family.

Given that the ruimour mill is running, as mentioned above, some clarifying info from Aaron, Quyen or Hien might be desirable.

Bob, it looks like you are right!

http://www.adapterplace.com/component/option,com_easyfaq/task,view/id,18/Itemid,65/lang,en/

However, do we assume he was ONLY talking about the B4 on the Fresh DV video? So what's the price going to be for the other models? I really don't imagine it to be much under 2000 dollars?! How much different in production costs can it be to the other models? Maybe it will be near 4500 dollars? Who knows?

It would be nice to hear something official from Letus to clear all this speculation up!!

Letus.....over to you!

Ok sorry for making anyone confused about my last post... There was a few things i should have said that i didnt....

1) the 4.5K price we are talking about is for the B4 and I Know this, my point is, if the B4 mount is that price I am estimating that the JVC mount is going to be close to that price because they seem to want to price everything higher because of their assurance (cockiness) that their products compete with P+S mini35. I was given a price range of 1200 and under for the jvc relay and I was just stating that if they were ballsy enough to even double that, it would be outrageous.

2) The comparison to the P+S was for the older 300 Mini35 not the miniC. So yes the direct comparison I was making still holds up, that model does flip the image, and is very much so within the price range of what letus is asking for, for the B4 relay alone.

I know I sound like I am after letus in a mean way, but I truly am not. I'm just making an honest opinion of the device. It works fine, but I have used both and I can say many times over that letus's remark of them being even close if not better than P+S is flat out wrong. The build quality is not even in the same ball park. The image is not even in the same ball park.

Every time letus puts out a new device they talk it up for it being the best one out. But yet they come out with another one saying "ok no that one was just ok this is the best one now".... For example, EVERY Letus that has come out since the flip, has had in the description "Absolutely silent" in it, as they refer to their previous one having some small noise.... They keep making this remark instead of saying the truth "Quieter than the last model" I've owned them all up to the extreme, they ALL make the same noise, and yes the extreme makes noise even though its labeled "absolutely silent". Instead they should use the proper terms and mesure the exact noise with a Decibel meter, and just state the actual amount of noise. These arent items that cost 50-100 bux, these are items that are $1,200+... their specs should be properly labeled.

They need a PR person to represent this company, this is something thats making people frustrated with their services, from the estimated times of product arrival, to price speculation, to changing word of mouth info... If you dont have the answer don't tell people it. You create false statements that people then look forward to seeing, and then its ultimately a let down in the end.

The reason why I liked this company when I first started buying their products, is because the price point was perfect for what they offered. And they flipped the image. After that they started with better light loss, and clarity. All great improvements. But As they stated on their interview, they are MAKING UP the numbers now... "I dont know why we picked that price we just like it" Thats something no one should say when trying to prove to people that your product is superior. That just shows that you made up a number that sounds good and doesn't reflect at all how the quality of the product is.

Here is the main lesson to learn... When putting out a product only let the public know the things you are definite about. They are new in this lime light so its not their fault, but it is very frustrating when you get different answers from everyone. Even from within the company.

I hope they make the right choice with their product line, I would like to see them go far. Dont get cocky, Just put out a good product.

April ended and we're into the first week of May... Any news on an updated Extreme coming out with a JVC relay?

Will it be a single device like the LetusHD or a relay that attaches to the current version of the Extreme?

Please chime in Letus crew.

We are now at the end of May and with no relay lens for the JVC or Canon cameras. Any word on its release date?

Same here ...

I certainly would like to know at least the status of this thing for the XL cameras.

I was told it was suppose to come out in April.

At least give us an update ...

Here's what they told me in e-mail when I contacted them through their website:


We plan to release a modular addon for the Extreme in early July. The relay will attach to the existing Extreme and will allow you to attach the adapter straight to the JVC body.

Here is a picture of the prototype of our B4 mount relay: http://www.letusdirect.com/images/misc/letus-relay.jpg

We are finalizing the optics now and full production will begin soon.

--------------
... Next, I'll follow up on the price and post the details.

"The B4 mount will be around $3,900. That is just a rough estimate right now until we get the final optics lined up. The XL and JVC relays will hopefully be less."

Did this mount ever get released? Is there a prototype getting tested?

I must say I have lost faith in Letus. Back last March, they told me that I should buy the Letus Extreme as the XL relay lens was near completion and that it would be an add-on to the adapter, so I should buy the adapter and be ready for the new relay in a couple weeks. They told me that's what a lot of their customers were doing.

So I bought one ... and when a month past and nothing ... and no response from them, I sold the adapter. And to this day, still nothing.

I'm personally sticking with P+S for now and will get their mini35c system for an upcoming feature I'll be shooting. As a professional, I can't rely on a company that tells me one thing and then doesn't deliver and doesn't even attempt to update us on realistic timeframes of their products ...

This comes down to simple business method.

We opted for the Letus back in April purely on the basis that a relay was imminent and from the start we had no end of trouble with the adapter. We stuck with it only because the relay was due to be released. Every month we heard...'oh apparently it'll be next month', then 'next month' and so on and so on. Even today there has still been no communication from Letus to its customer base. The faults, obvious incompatibility and continued delay in releasing the 'wonder cure relay lens' cost my company money and I've proved myself an idiot by going against my own advice to others. If your business depends on it for income don't mess around with cheap, unproven products, promises and rumours.

If you require a 35mm adapter for your JVC for BUSINESS purposes (i.e for income to pay salaries and bills) buy or rent a P+S Technik.

You get what you pay for!

From what I read it seems the Letus company are currently unable to cope with the demand currently experienced. As soon as demand for my work grew beyond what I could physically deliver I hired more staff. If you don't continue to deliver, your customer eventually goes somewhere else. Fact.

a year later... but out of my price range:

Letus Relay Lenses*::*LetusDirect (http://www.letusdirect.com/cart/letus-relay-lenses.html)


Close to $5,000 for the whole system... I'd like them to bring back the LetusHD for about $900 again. I'm willing to compromise a couple thousand dollars for some loss of light and graininess.

It's just $6,000 for the high-end relay lens. You still have to add the Letus adapter to it, which is another $1200-$4500 on top of it.

But these are the B4 versions ... wonder when the XL or JVC versions are coming, and how much?

a year later... but out of my price range:

You missed the best bit, printed underneath the price;

NOTE: This is a pre-sale. The relay will be shipped on a first come first serve basis once we receive delivery of the final production run. You will be charged at time of purchase. Delivery time is currently slated for mid March.


Yeah. Right! We've heard that one before!

Nice one guys.

To be fair on the brothers, getting it right has likely been a far more daunting task than the brothers might have expected or they might have been ambushed by a severe setback after they had published, especially if they have outsourced and gotten burned by a substandard development.

I imagine Dennis Woods might likewise be experiencing a stressful time with his own direct relay lens development.

Such things can and have happened to biggies like Sony (EX1 problems) and JVC (the HD100 split-screen debacle) and those costly products were actually turned loose on the marketplace.

This would have been the most ambitious technical R&D effort either undertaken or commissioned by the brothers. For a small entity, it has also to have been the most intimidating because of the up-front outlay. Making the money back is not a given.

It might explain the two relay lens models and prices.

In regard the deja-vu thing "Yeah. Right! We've heard that one before". Yes indeed you have and I guess you have every reason to be cynical. It would seem the brothers believe they have the goods now.

Having gone through the chagrin and embarrassment of making what turned out to be a previous vaporware announcement, I think they will have been doubly careful that they can deliver this time around.

There exists now a fairly confined window of opportunity for them to recover their investment in direct relay before the groundglass relay adaptor becomes subordinate to a next generation of digital SLRs with fullframe sensors. The existing videocamera systems the relay is tailored for will remain in use for some time yet but the clock on their wearing out is ticking. Therefore, running a pre-sale campaign is a reasonable business decision.

As for a 1/2" and 1/3" relay. Whilst the general design principles might have been worked out on the 2/3" relay, the only constant in the equation for the other sensors sizes is the area of groundglass image chosen which appears to be the academy movie frame. Everything else is different. Each relay will require its own equal R&D effort and investment. There is unlikely to be common optical elements across all relay lenses so no cost savings or shortcuts to be found there.

This is all highly speculative and uninformed comment by me, based on no facts whatever.

Treat my comments with the grain of salt they deserve.