in rereading this it sounds like I actually know what I'm talking about
Paul, as promised I put together a post that illustrates with images the advantage of not creating a "in camera" look by tweaking the color matrix. The example is a it extreme but it drive the point, IMHO, that neutral settings in camera give you a lot of flexibility. Here is the link: http://paolociccone.com/blog/?p=27

Paolo, thanks again for the preset. Actually, I would like it if you could come up with a Truefish preset as well. Fish are one of my favorite subjects. If I manage to get an underwater housing for the A1 before I change to some other camera I will probably use Truecolor. I try to get that look in post anyway.

Tom what are some of the horizaontal and vertical res settings that you have liked?

Pat

That's interesting Pat. Are the requirements for underwater shooting much different from land photography?
Not that I can do anything about it, just curious :)

To all of you who posted about TC, thank you for the appreciation, I'm glad that the scene file is useful.
Happy shooting!

I'd like to throw my thanks in there as well Paolo. Very much appreciate the file.

I'd like to suggest two possible issues with the blue cast.

1) XH-A1 users are accustomed to an overly red picture, so their eyes have adjusted -- thus neutral (red being normal) would appear blue.

2) The white balance dial is calibrated for an overly red picture.

Just thoughts, as I have found when dialing in the white balance with TrueColor that 3200k doesn't look right -- even under 3200k lighting. However, when white balancing with a sheet of paper, everything looked about right.

My camera has a blue cast in this setting which I was able to adjust via the menu. Having been a professional videographer since 1982, I have owned, rented and used more cameras than I can remember. It has been my experience both past and present that the SAME brand cameras can actually have a different colorimetry from each other.....even slightly. This, I assume, is the cause for a different hue when using presets.

I must agree a true WB card is necessary. I did use a pro WB card. My picture is slightly blue. However, as stated above, I virtually eliminated the blue in the presets via the custom menu.


NOTE: Some new videographers, who are in the special event area, tend to WB on a white table cloth or even a white shirt. This is a BIG NO NO!!! The fact is that the cloth appears white but will produce a blue cast due to the type of threading used to manufactor the cloth.


Just my thoughts.


I'd like to suggest two possible issues with the blue cast.

1) XH-A1 users are accustomed to an overly red picture, so their eyes have adjusted -- thus neutral (red being normal) would appear blue.

2) The white balance dial is calibrated for an overly red picture.

Just thoughts, as I have found when dialing in the white balance with TrueColor that 3200k doesn't look right -- even under 3200k lighting. However, when white balancing with a sheet of paper, everything looked about right.

Once again, appreciate your efforts Paolo.

Just tried this preset with my SGpro 35mm adapter. Getting blown red channel very often, even with 0 color gain. Anyone else experiencing this?

I also get a blue cast, even when balancing with a white card. What did you change Lou?

Try this Alex and let me know:




GAM M
KNEE M
BLK M
PED -4
SET -1
SHP 1
HDF M
DHV 0
COR 0
NR1 0
NR2 0
CMX N
CGN 22*
CPH 0
RGN-2
CGN 3
BGN -3
RGM 10
RBM -12
GRM 6
GBM 0
BRM 12
BGM -3






I also get a blue cast, even when balancing with a white card. What did you change Lou?

Thanks Lou. By the way, I'm not seeing the blue tint with paolo's settings when using roughly between 3000 and 4000k lights.

Is there any reason you set the sharpness to 1? (I can understand why you didn't keep it at -9 but I thought I heard someone say that a positive value for sharpness was not a good idea.)

I have a waveform monitor for my XH-A1 but I don't have the DSC chart to test these results against the levels set by Paolo. (If anyone wants to send me one I'd be happy to share my results ;-).

Have you done any waveform monitor tests with these new settings?

From the reports in this thread, I can only guess that there are two batches of XH-A1s. I hope there aren't other inconsistencies that will limit how much dynamic range our cameras capture compared to the possibly different version Paolo tested on.

Paolo, maybe you could weigh in?

Wicked preset. Nice. It's a bit dark but can bring that back. I like that the image is not edgy, and that I can sharpen this up if I need in post. The colour on my Trinitron 12 incher is perfect and true. Thanks again. You can't blow this out though or you are $%^&*(.
No Cine grabbing the high end to pull it down, so you have to control all. Other than that...no blue.

I have a question concerning the TRUECOLOR preset.

Looking at comparisons between the presets, I really like TRUECOLOR's colors, but it seems that the look is rather "soft" and it's not as sharp as say VIVIDRGB. Is this correct? If so, is there any way to make it take sharper pictures without ruining the image? Thanks for your help.

I have a question concerning the TRUECOLOR preset.

Looking at comparisons between the presets, I really like TRUECOLOR's colors, but it seems that the look is rather "soft" and it's not as sharp as say VIVIDRGB. Is this correct? If so, is there any way to make it take sharper pictures without ruining the image? Thanks for your help.

Truecolor's sharpness is set very low, -7 I think, while vividrgb is at something like 1. My understanding was that the low sharpness setting was keep from adding noise while the image is being captured, and a light sharpness was to be done in post if you wanted it. It is discussed by Paolo Ciccone here: http://paolociccone.com/blog/?p=17#more-17

Deke, that's because I turned the detail all the way down. This is because almost every video camera artificially sharpens the picture by darkening the pixels in th high contrast areas. This is an artificial manipulation that can be reproduced easily in post with higher quality and changed scene-by-scene instead of being "baked" in the pixels. BTW, the artificial sharpening is also what gives the "video look" and since my aim is to create a more cinematic look I dialed the detail down. You can increase it to your liking.

Thanks for the help guys! I look forward to giving it a try. I'm new to videography but have heaps of experience in image correction, so I'll be interested to see how the post turns out! Thanks again!

Regarding blown red channel when using Truecolor preset with 35mm adapters.

It's not just me that messed up :)
I've seen footage from other people that shows the same now. It's a very nice preset with the stock lens, but if you plan on shooting with a 35mm adapter be cautious. Even with 0 colorgain you risk clipping the red channel. Dialing in a negative value for colorgain may be a solution, but I haven't tested it myself.

Rene, the type of lens will likely change the color response of the camera and that's another reason to get a chart and do your own calibration. It's impossible to put together a universal "recipe" that will work will every combination of optics.

Paolo,

Thanks for the TrueColor preset for the A1 I really like it for outdoor scenes. I tried several of the others and felt they made the colors unrealistic. Yours does a nice job of putting things close to true and I can correct in post. I'm now limiting my CP's to Canon Factory setting, Panalook2, and TrueColor.

Thanks for a great start!

Been loving this preset. Here's a thread with some beach footage in California I shot using it:

http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=123304

I just used this preset, with a few minor tweeks based on the shooting conditions,
on about five hours of shooting for a documentary I'm doing
and I think it's fantastic..
I just wanted to add my thanks to the many posters here,
especially Paolo,
who provided a wealth of information regarding how it was done.
It gives me a look that I wanted but could not get for myself.
Nice work.

David

i am very happy also, and am using this preset pretty much all the time.
i'm very glad there is so much knowledge available here, and shared so graciously.
If left to my own devices, i'd still think that 'frame rate' meant the amount of innocent people in jail...

I just finished shooting a project with the following pre-sets and now starting to tweak a bit. I was attempting to match the DVX and then made some adjustments of my own. I've noticed my red are slightly pink and I am not picking up the blacks (more often than not they just dont register). I shoot a lot of documentary footage in low light and would like to adjust for that.

does anyone have suggestions?

GAM CINE1
KNE AUTO
BLK STRETCH
PED -1
SET -1
SHP -3
HDF MIDDLE
DHV 0
COR 2
NR1 OFF
NR2 OFF
CMX 2
CGN -1
CPH 0
RGN -1
GGN -1
BGN -1
RGM 0
RBM 0
GRM 0
GBM 0
BRM 0
BGM 0

I want to refresh this topic. I'm new owner of XH A1s. I also notice blue cast at TrueColour preset. Here are my shots with fabric preset and TC.

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/3279/img0113syb.jpg
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/8641/img0114wcr.jpg
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/2732/img0115q.jpg
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/2012/img0116fgx.jpg

What to do with it?

Artur,

Did you manually white balance before shooting?

Artur,

Did you manually white balance before shooting?
I set manually, automatically and pre-defined. I shoot in daylight and tungsten. Always the same: blue cast. I can post other shots if needed.
Sorry, if my english is poor.

Artur,

Your english is fine....do not worry.(Nawalaneic was my mother's last name, but I know very little polish)

Did you also notice the blue when you manually white-balance? After white balance..white should be white. You have a picture with white curtains that look blue. If you properly white balanced, the curtains should be white. Yes?

I use truecolor preset and do not see the blue.....maybe I should look harder at my work.

Hi,
Thanks for reply. Images above are auto WB. Curtains and window are white. Here are some shots took this evening at tungsten light. Manually white balanced.

Last name your mother was probably Nawalaniec. It's typical polish name :-)

Edit: I noticed that using Auto level function in my PhotoImpactXL produce almost white balancing images. It means nothing of course.

Artur,

I will test and upload pics. I will manully white balance.

Artur,

Thank you for correcting my spelling. I believe Nawalaniec means "Baker's son"

Here is a comparison of "no preset"(LEFT) and "truecolor"(RIGHT). The white board is a painter's canves that I used to manully white balance. I will let you look and see if the blue is there. (NOTE: I had to increase the db setting on truecolor....low lighting in the room....it made the pic a bit lighter)

My white balance procedure:
1. Select a custom preset; and VERIFY custom preset is "ON".
2. Zoom in on white board. (I do not focus)
3. Press white balance button until it stops blinking.

If you don't see the blue in my pics, you might want to check the trucolor set up to make sure all values are correct in the setup.

Hope this helps, Artur.

Regards,
Michael

Hello Michael,

Thanks for help. I'm at work in office now and will test it at home later.

My procedure:
1. manually white balance on white page without any preset
2. turn preset on
3. shot
Do I something wrong? Does any preset influent on white balance? I thought every preset manages an image AFTER white balancing.

I see slight blue cast on your Truecolor's shot. Take it to your graphic aplication and test it by eyedropper. I will do it too.
My shots has been taken without gain.
And last but not least: Nawalaniec doesn't mean "baker's son" :-) It's difficult to explain what it means. This word probably origins from verb "nawalać" which has many meanings.
Sorry, I think polish and write english - I hope you won't cry of angry or laugh :-)
BTW: my last name "Śmiech" means "laughter".

Artur,
Change your procedure.

1.TURN ON PRESET
2.WHITE BALANCE ....I think that is your problem.
3.SHOOT

Thanks, Michael!
It's 3 p.m. I finished work and go home to test it. I do as you wrote.

It's 6 p.m. I'm at home and did your procedure. It's all the same. I will try to modificate this preset. Did you noticed that black parts are black and only white tend to blue? Upload images, put them into Photoshop (or similar) and use eyedropper.

One thing to be aware of is that auto-WB and manual temperature dial-in can produce very different results. WB definitely adjusts more than the single color temp.

On that note, I get a blue cast when using WB with truecolor, but not when manually dialing in the temperature.

These shots was taken at small halogen lamp on my office-desk (20W of power).

Hello Michael,

Here are your shots I meassured in my PhotoImpactXL. There is slight blue cast yet :-(

Why don't you guys just connect your A1 to a calibrated monitor and make adjustments to the preset (-blue and/or +red, etc). Some experience this slight blue cast (me included) and some don't. Like I said, I did... and corrected it with adjustments.

Why don't you guys just connect your A1 to a calibrated monitor

I haven't one but I'll try to do it with my Samsung SyncMaster 957DF. Certain difficultness is multitude of adjustments such as RG Gain, GR Gain etc. Did you noticed blacks are black and whites are blue in my shots?

Bill,

Do you mind sharing your adjusted settings?

Thanks in advance.

Bill,

Do you mind sharing your adjusted settings?

Thanks in advance.

Reviving an old thread: I, too, would be interested in what "adjustments" were made. Last night I experimented extensively under tungsten lighting using the current TRUCOLOR preset (i.e., the corrected one, not the original). I white-balanced using a professional card, holding it at various angles to the light to ensure that I wasn't getting variations in WB depending on orientation (shadows, etc.).

Danged if I couldn't get rid of what looked like a blue cast in the whites, looking, for instance, at a sheet of paper with my naked eye and through the LCD viewfinder simultaneously. I white balanced probably a dozen times: same result. In fact, the entire picture looked a bit cold no matter what I did, suggesting that my various attempts to white balance were "correct", and at least invariable.

For grins I clicked over to auto-WB and the image warmed immediately and slightly to remove the blue cast, yielding whites that really looked white and an image that didn't seem warm but just right. What gives? Why couldn't I attain the same pleasing image with an accurate manual white balance?

If it weren't for this troubling (to me) aspect of TRUCOLOR and my apparent inability to compensate for it, I would use the present as my default. Any ideas from folks who have experimented more?

Steve

Steven,

When I tried this preset a while back, I got a same blue cast as well. I don't believe it's a white balance issue either. I have never seen anything specific on what settings can compensate for it. I would like for someone to post those as well. On a side note, do you think the colors on this preset look a bit saturated?

Steven,

When I tried this preset a while back, I got a same blue cast as well. I don't believe it's a white balance issue either. I have never seen anything specific on what settings can compensate for it. I would like for someone to post those as well. On a side note, do you think the colors on this preset look a bit saturated?

No, I don't think the colors look too saturated. I chose this preset for the express purpose of obtaining accurate, and the most, color information so I could grade in post. I believe that was the original intent of the author of this preset. Therefore, I'm not too concerned about what the raw footage looks like, so long as its accurate, e.g., with no blue cast!

WB'ing comes second nature to me now, and so I, too, suspect that I'm not WB'ing incorrectly. Unfortunately, I'm just a serious hobbyist with a high end LCD monitor, not a calibrated production monitor ($$). I suppose if I had the latter, I could find out just what tweaks in the camera would remove the slight blue cast. Since I don't, I revived the thread for my selfish purpose of finding out what might have worked for others similarly situated (frustrated).

Steve

what tweaks in the camera would remove the slight blue cast.
I changed RGB settings to 0,0,0 and something else. Now the white is exactly white. My version is below.

I changed RGB settings to 0,0,0 and something else. Now the white is exactly white. My version is below.

That was a fast response! Thanks very much, Artur. Could I trouble you to post a list of your revised settings in a reply here?

Steve

EDIT: I suppose your reply also would clarify for me what "RGB" is, if this does not refer to the three separate gain settings for R, G, and B, respectively.

Bill,

Do you mind sharing your adjusted settings?

Thanks in advance.

Sorry I missed this originally. It's been so long ago I may have made further adjustments that suited my needs, but here they are:

GAM N
KNE M
BLK P
PED -4
SET -1
SHP -1
HDF M (default)
DHV 0 (default)
COR 0
NR1 0
NR2 0
CMX N
CGN 8
CPH 0
RGN -1
GGN -2
BGN -3
RGM 10
RBM -12
GRM 6
GBM 0
BRM 12
BGM -3

Yes, RGB are separate channels of Red, Green, Blue.

Parameter Original value My value
GAM Gamma N N
KNE Knee M L
BLK Black P S
PED Pedestal -9 0
SET Setup -9 -4
SHP Sharpness -9 -4
HDF Hor.Detail M (default) M (default)
DHV Detail HV Balance 0 (default) 0 (default)
COR Coring 0 -2
NR1 Noise Reduction 1 0 0
NR2 Noise Reduction 2 0 0
CMX Color Matrix N N
CGN Color Gain 0 0
CPH Color Phase 0 0
RGN Red Gain -7 0
GGN Green Gain 3 0
BGN Blue Gain 12 0
RGM Red Green Matrix 40 40
RBM Red Blue Matrix -12 -12
GRM Green Red Matrix 6 6
GBM Green Blue Matrix 0 0
BRM Blue Red Matrix 12 12
BGM Blue Green Matrix -3 -3

Bill, Artur:

Many thanks for the quick replies. I'm going to give these revised TRUCOLOR settings a try this evening. Artur, your earlier posts of pictures showing white paper illuminated by a desk lamp under various WB settings looked exactly like my results from last night. Thus, I'm encouraged that a solution is in sight!

Steve

After testing this evening, it is evident that both Bill's and Artur's variations of the TruColor preset definitively get rid of the blue cast that I observe with the original TruColor preset. I conducted three tests following the procedure below each time I changed values in the TruColor preset.

Test:
1. Selected one of the variations for the preset.
2. Correctly locked exposure: no overblown whites or underexposed blacks. I did not change exposure over the duration of my three tests.
3. Manually focused on and white balanced on my professional WB card.
4. Took a few seconds of footage. Brought into Vegas, slapped on a title, exported to Adobe Photoshop Elements, and used the eyedropper tool to get RGB values for my WB card.

Results:
1. Original TruColor is most definitely blue. Subjectively and objectively (RGB) this is clearly the case.

2. Artur's variation seems almost reddish by comparison. Also, the blacks in this variation have more details, but also quite a bit of noise that I could see easily in Photoshop. Otherwise, the image looks pretty danged good.

3. Bill's variation struck me as the most neutral with no detectable color cast, even though the RGB values are essentially identical to Artur's. The blacks are much less noisy, however, and more akin to what TruColor offers, in my subjective opinion. Bill's and Artur's variations use different pedestal and and black settings, which likely account somewhat for the differences I observe in the black regions.

As you can see, the tests were under artificial (halogen) lighting. I'd like to try out the variations outdoors in daylight, where I tend to shoot the most footage. For now, I really like Bill's version.

My thanks to both gentlemen for posting their efforts.

Steve

Thank you for comparison, Steve. I can see my settings give some reddish cast opposite to Bill's. I will try his preset in tungsten and daylight. I use my TC's version indoor only. At this reason I raised PED and SET to get more details of blacks. I left RG, GR, BG etc. the same of Paolo Ciccone. I lowered KNE at L to avoid overexpose the whites.

I like Bill's too.
I had noticed the blue cast in the original setting and thought to just work it out in post, but Bill's much better.
I 'm wondering what the original poster thinks about this?
L.

I like Bill's too.
I had noticed the blue cast in the original setting and thought to just work it out in post, but Bill's much better.
I 'm wondering what the original poster thinks about this?
L.

You know, Larry, I tried doing the same in post. In my hands, however, the footage always looked a bit "off", no matter how hard I adjusted hue, WB, or other things. Maybe I just have poor skills. For instance, I shot a lot of baseball games, and the grass field and foliage beyond the field always looked a sick blue-green (e.g., not a nice blue-green like Kentucky blue grass :) ). I just could not get rid of the blue cast entirely without making other parts of the image looking too reddish.

It is plain from the previous many pages of this thread that the OP was quite active and was adamant that TruColor gave no blue cast whatsoever. I got the feeling the OP felt that to the extent that a blue cast does exist on a given camera, however, then perhaps that camera needs calibration. His blog (http://paolociccone.com/blog/?p=17) indicates that he does not have an A1, suggesting that this project was a one-off not to be visited again. Still, like you, I'd be interested in reading his thoughts.

Steve