Paul Kellett
March 12th, 2008, 11:26 AM
Thanks Piotr
View Full Version : sd dvd from ex1 : horrible Paul Kellett March 12th, 2008, 11:26 AM Thanks Piotr Daniel Alexander March 12th, 2008, 01:23 PM Guys, I've been following this thread with great interest. Last year I had similar problems with the V1E line twitter; I spent a couple of months before - "with a little help from my friends" - I definitely concluded the problems were all connected with the display devices/connections I was using. And not the sharpness, as Sony's own support was suggesting! Ever since, neither my HD nor SD DVD Vegas projects, basing on the V1E recordings, needed any special treatment... Same with the EX1 now: I am shooting HQ 1080/25p (mixed sometimes with 720p for over/under cranking); I'm editing in Vegas, rendering out without any unsharp masks, Gaussian blurs or alike, and burning two versions of disks (BD or SD DVD). No problems - and certainly not anything I could call "awful", as in the title of this thread. A bit of flickering here and there perhaps - but no worse than what I can see in Discovery HD broadcast! Just keep proportions... Piotr, Im just wondering what conlcusion you came to which solved your display problems as i know i am having that particular problem (see my thread 'what would you do'). How do you have your setup configured which eliminated the infamous line twitter? Piotr Wozniacki March 12th, 2008, 01:31 PM Piotr, Im just wondering what conlcusion you came to which solved your display problems as i know i am having that particular problem (see my thread 'what would you do'). How do you have your setup configured which eliminated the infamous line twitter? Two solutions exist: - when palying back from a computer, use an MPEG software player allowing to switch deinterlacing off (like VLC or Nero Showtime), No bobbing !!! (blend is the second best to none) - when playing from a DVD or BD, use a good player and a truly progressive capable input (usually HDMI on modern full HD, 1080p HDTVs) Daniel Alexander March 12th, 2008, 01:38 PM Thats good to know, i was hoping for more of a solution for the twitter i see when monitoring on my monitor from my vegas timeline. Maybe a 1080p hdtv hooked up via dvi to hdmi to monitor my timeline would do the trick? Craig Seeman March 12th, 2008, 02:09 PM And I'm still hoping I can hand a client an SD DVD have them not see twitter. I can't tell them what TV or cables to buy and keep them as a client for SD DVD delivery. Jon Carlson March 12th, 2008, 08:26 PM Piotr, It sounds like you're addressing problems specific to 23.976p footage. Adam, in his original post, was complaining about issues with 60i footage. With that type of footage, it doesn't seem like a progressive scan DVD player would make much a difference. And Craig makes a very valid point; we have to deliver content to our clients that works on even the cheapest $25 DVD player from Wal-Mart hooked up to an old CRT, and also works coming off a high-end DVD player going to a 50" plasma. Adam, any chance to test the files that have been uploaded for you? Steve Sykes March 13th, 2008, 08:49 AM You can resize the m2v or m2t files with Virtualdubmod + smartresize. The resulting .avi file can be encoded with cce of course. Dennis, thank you for you advice. I currently have Adobe Premier Pro CS3 which doesn't import the HQ files. If I've understood you correctly Virtualdub can resize the orginal HQ files to avi at SD resoltion avi 720x540. Will I have to convert the mp4 wrapping to mpeg2 for Virtualdub to do this, if so how? I could then edit this avi in premier then export to DVD. At the moment I will be mainly producing SD dvds. Is this workflow going to produce the best high quality SD DVD? If I record using SP 1080i on the camera is it still worth going straight to Virtualdub then editing in AP or will it be worth importing through firewire then exporting to Virtualdub? I have not tried editing HDV in premier yet, does the rendering of transitions & application of effects loose quality, it this done in the same way on all NLE? My camera has arrived today I would like to know the best step forward rather than spend days experimenting with different software! Vegas will edit straight from the HQ files, Premier wont, is my solution as simple as that?! Jon Carlson March 13th, 2008, 11:10 AM Others may disagree, but it seems to me that re-sizing and re-wrapping all of your individual clips prior to editing would be... cumbersome, to say the least. I use Premiere Pro CS3 with the Matrox Axio hardware. It handles the MXF files (that Sony's Clip Browser generates) in real-time, be it HQ or SP mode. I always shoot in HQ mode. We paid for 1/2" chips at full 1920x1080... why throw that away before we even get to the edit? It may be that PPro natively supports the MXF files, or it could be a Matrox proprietary thing. I would play around and see what works with your system. You also could explore an intermediary codec like Cineform (http://www.cineform.com/products/Aspect-Prospect.htm) to see if that handles the files natively. But now we're threadjacking. Sorry! Mostly I would see Virtualdub becoming useful once your edit is complete - edit in the highest quality possible, and then export to your final delivery medium (SD DVD in this case) using Virtualdub or one of the other methods mentioned here. Bill Ravens March 13th, 2008, 12:33 PM No need to "manually" export to VirtualDub, you can frameserve to it. And, I would strongly suggest you edit in HD(v) until you're ready for the final output before you resize. Thus, frameserving to Vdub should be your last step. Brian Cassar March 13th, 2008, 12:40 PM Jon, I too have the Axio LE + Premiere CS3 but have been unable to produce decent looking SD DVD's! Have you succeded in any way? Yesterday I've done a side by side test with my DSR300 and EX1. The EX1 footage was played out of the HD timeline - outputted via the Axio breakout box as analog component and inputted to a DVCAM deck via component in - recorded the playback as letterboxed PAL DVCAM - then re-captured via firewire the SD PAL footage to an SD project. I then imported the SD footage from my DSR 300 and did a split screen between the two identical images (of my son). The resultant picture is a shock - the footage from my 10 year old SD DSR300 DVCAM camera is like HD and the EX1 picture (downconverted to SD) looks like it has been shot with a Hi8 mm - and I'm not joking! Today I've got hold of a Kramer SDI-Firewire converter and fed it SDI input from the camera and outputted DV into my DVCAM deck. The downconverted picture is unusable. People's faces look out of focus when I was 100% certain that I was focused. I'm now at a loss - and I'm seriously considering getting rid of my EX1 and continue filming with my faithful DSR300. It is an unescapable fact that till now we still need to produce SD material - so Sony's insistence in filming in HD only is rather idiotic given that cost effective technology is not yet available. Dennis Schmitz March 13th, 2008, 12:52 PM Try downconverting with VirtualDubMod and Smartresize plugin. (here's a test vid: http://rapidshare.com/files/98564166/WithSmartresize_Hcenc.m2v.html) Best software solution so far. regards Dennis David Hadden March 13th, 2008, 12:52 PM Are any of you guys having trouble with downrezzing HD to SD DVD's using Vegas set to Best? or is this a strictly an Adobe and Final Cut issue? Thanks for the input. Dave Dennis Schmitz March 13th, 2008, 12:54 PM Dennis, thank you for you advice. I currently have Adobe Premier Pro CS3 which doesn't import the HQ files. If I've understood you correctly Virtualdub can resize the orginal HQ files to avi at SD resoltion avi 720x540. Will I have to convert the mp4 wrapping to mpeg2 for Virtualdub to do this, if so how? I could then edit this avi in premier then export to DVD. At the moment I will be mainly producing SD dvds. Is this workflow going to produce the best high quality SD DVD? If I record using SP 1080i on the camera is it still worth going straight to Virtualdub then editing in AP or will it be worth importing through firewire then exporting to Virtualdub? I have not tried editing HDV in premier yet, does the rendering of transitions & application of effects loose quality, it this done in the same way on all NLE? My camera has arrived today I would like to know the best step forward rather than spend days experimenting with different software! Vegas will edit straight from the HQ files, Premier wont, is my solution as simple as that?! Stay in HDV. Do the downcovertion at last. regards Dennis Jon Carlson March 13th, 2008, 12:55 PM Brian, Have you downloaded any of the sample files I posted? I'm curious how the results would compare. Again, that footage comes from a variety of sources, and I don't think the EX1 footage scaled differently than the graphics, stills, etc. I'm assuming you rendered from the timeline using Adobe Media Encoder, as well as testing the hardware output? How did the results compare? What are you using to preview your content? Does it look bad on an SDTV, or only when scaled on to a large HD display? CRT? LCD? Plasma? Have you tried the Virtualdub solution described in this thread? I hope to shoot some side-by-side comparisons between my EX1 and the JVC DV5000 it replaced (similar to the test you described) I'll see if I can upload footage for you to view. Any chance you could upload an .m2t file or something of your split screen for people to look at? Andrew McMillan March 13th, 2008, 01:03 PM Jon Carles I am realy interested in that shoot out. I currently work with a Dsr 300,and I need more cameras right now so I am looking at some EX1's or Used Dsr's, but "my dsr390 on lcd looks better than my ex1 or fx1 downconvrt sd on lcd" is not very reasuring. Especialy sense I only deliver SD. So I'm stuck until your shoot out. Dennis Schmitz March 13th, 2008, 01:08 PM Here is a download of virtualdubmod with some nice plugins included: http://rapidshare.com/files/99285984/VirtualDubMod.7z.html Unpack. Open VirtualDubMod.exe Drag'n'Drop your .m2v, .m2t, .avi (Canopus HQ, Cineform etc... everything is possible!) etc. on it. Click "File> Load Processing settings" Select a preset (from the attachement below) which is ok for you. Save (you can choose a codec in video>compression before) regards Dennis Brian Cassar March 13th, 2008, 01:22 PM Jon, no I did not have a look at your sample files. I'll try and post an m2t file if I'm successful. On a previous test (not a side by side comparision) I did use Adobe Media Encoder - the result was the worst I've ever seen for a HD to Sd conversion - worse than the hardware way. As for viewing I burnt everything on a SD DVD and played it on a Philips 21" / Panasonic 21" / Panasonic 36" all CRT's and a Bravia W3000 40" LCD. The Bravia picture was a good laugh - my VHS recordings of 10 years ago on a CRT was x5 times better than the picture of both the DSR300 and the downconverted EX1. The CRT's were slightly better. Andrew I suggest to go for other DSR's rather than the EX1. The quality of the DSR's is fantastic. Mine is the early 300 - I've heard that the 490's are incredible in quality - they are in fact 2/3" as opposed to my 1/2". When one mentions VirtualDubMod - how is it used? Once I finish editing on CS3's timeline what happens then? How do you downconvert? Dennis Schmitz March 13th, 2008, 01:26 PM When one mentions VirtualDubMod - how is it used? Once I finish editing on CS3's timeline what happens then? How do you downconvert? I've already mentioned the workflow above your post. ;) Have you seen the .m2v NTSC file I've uploaded? regards Dennis Brian Cassar March 13th, 2008, 01:27 PM Try downconverting with VirtualDubMod and Smartresize plugin. (here's a test vid: http://rapidshare.com/files/98564166/WithSmartresize_Hcenc.m2v.html) Best software solution so far. regards Dennis Dennis, I've just seen the test vid - wow it's nowhere near what I've been doing - it is really good. Please can you kindly tell me step by step what are you doing. Please bear with me that apart from CS3 I have no idea of other editing programs. Thanks Edit - I was still typing out this reply!. Thanks for the workflow Dennis Schmitz March 13th, 2008, 01:29 PM what is your output of Adobe CS3? Are you filming progressive, if not it will be much more complicated ;) Edit: Ahh, ok :D Bill Ravens March 13th, 2008, 01:37 PM I suggest that VirtualDubMod is about 2-3 years old and hasn't been updated by Avery lee to his latest configuration. The newest vesion of VirtualDub, v1.8.0, contains plugins for both wmv and mpeg files. Brian Cassar March 13th, 2008, 01:37 PM I'm in Pal Area and use 1080 50i - is it a problem? If needs be I switch to 720 50p. So once I have the edited footage in a HD timeline, do I export movie as one whole .avi sequence? When I drop this .avi movie to VirtualDubMod how long does it take to render? David Hadden March 13th, 2008, 02:01 PM Are any of you guys having trouble with downrezzing HD to SD DVD's using Vegas set to Best? or is this a strictly an Adobe and Final Cut issue? Thanks for the input. Dave Why no David, this is a Vegas problem too, but only if you don't use best.... wait... I don't know... I'm the same person who asked the question. :P Anybody? Anybody? Dave :) Jon Carlson March 13th, 2008, 03:15 PM It seems like there are varying definitions of "acceptable" floating around... if you want to compare Vegas to Premiere to Virtualdub, I would suggesting posting an MPEG2 file for people to look at and compare. As I don't have Vegas, that's the best I can do. :-) David Hadden March 13th, 2008, 03:53 PM It seems like there are varying definitions of "acceptable" floating around... if you want to compare Vegas to Premiere to Virtualdub, I would suggesting posting an MPEG2 file for people to look at and compare. As I don't have Vegas, that's the best I can do. :-) Thanks Jon, I'm guessing since no-one posted that I can see in here that is using Vegas it's not been a big problem for them, though they might just not define it the same as others. I'll do just that with some footage that's been posted raw on the net, and ask others to do the same with the same footage ( in a new thread ) so that everyone can see from a common ground. Dave David Hadden March 13th, 2008, 09:29 PM Thanks Jon, I'm guessing since no-one posted that I can see in here that is using Vegas it's not been a big problem for them, though they might just not define it the same as others. I'll do just that with some footage that's been posted raw on the net, and ask others to do the same with the same footage ( in a new thread ) so that everyone can see from a common ground. Dave I've made the thread (can be seen at link below) http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=116958 Simon Denny March 14th, 2008, 12:31 AM Hi David, I'm using the Sony Z1 and i have just found a good work flow With Vegas. First thing is make sure all your footage is in focus looking real sharp. Render to the best setting,upperfield fist, two pass Variable bit rate, max bit rate 8.5meg, Avg bit rate 6meg, Min bit rate 4.2meg This should produce a HDv to SD mpeg -2 DVD that looks good. Good luck Simon David Hadden March 14th, 2008, 12:43 AM Hi Simon, the reason I'm doing this (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=116958) is because it seems that some people are having problems specifically with the EX-1 (or that's what I've gleamed with my brief reading of this thread, not sure if they've mentioned having trouble with HDV or not), but I most certainly appreciate the feedback and suggestions. Dave Adam Forgione March 14th, 2008, 07:04 AM sorry for the delay i am the original poster. Here are some raw hdv files straight from the cam. i had to wait for it to load and then control click save as source (on mac): http://pennylaneprod.com/1.mov http://pennylaneprod.com/2.mov http://pennylaneprod.com/3.mov Here are m2v files already compressed with compressor : this is what jpivideo (on vu) saw at my studio and agreed it did not look good. we played his a1 footage wihtout changing a thing on my setup and his stuff looked much better: http://pennylaneprod.com/163_0046_01-mbps8.m2v this is what mr. ed (on vu) burned and said looked great when he played it on his setup on 37" plasma, on my setup it wasnt good. He came over yesterday and saw it at my studio and agreed it looked bad. http://pennylaneprod.com/163_0035_01-MPEG.m2v this is an example showing store signs. the signs look horrible and digitized. http://pennylaneprod.com/163_0013_01-MPEG-2.m2v now i will say when i watch all these clips on the link from my computer they look stunning, go figure. if anyone can burn these and view them on their systems, please let me know what you are using. the 1st 3 files are HDV so you would have to use your system to encode, but maybe the problem is with my system FCP, compressor, and dvdsp. all footage shot on 60i - i noticed 1080 30p looks great on sd, so im convinced this is an interlace issue Steve Sykes March 14th, 2008, 01:25 PM Here is a download of virtualdubmod with some nice plugins included: http://rapidshare.com/files/99285984/VirtualDubMod.7z.html Unpack. Open VirtualDubMod.exe Drag'n'Drop your .m2v, .m2t, .avi (Canopus HQ, Cineform etc... everything is possible!) etc. on it. Click "File> Load Processing settings" Select a preset (from the attachement below) which is ok for you. Save (you can choose a codec in video>compression before) regards Dennis I would like to know the best workflow before resizing in VirtualDubMod: 1) Is there a way VirtualDubMod can convert the orginal mxf files, it doesn't recognise them? I have read the HQ mxf files are actually MPEG2 files recorded at 35mb/s at VBR. Is there a way to convert the filename or rewrapped the codec so it is MPEG2? 2) Is it more advantagous to convert the HD footage to uncompressed avi or a lossless codec (I have huffy & Mainconcept's ProDV codec: DV50 - not sure which is best?). 3) Is the quality worse if I export from my NLE to MPEG2 (It only gives me mainconcept's encoder option). I'm assuming version 2 is best but my previous background has been editing DV. I am new to editing HDV! Frameserving was also mentioned- is this like transcoding? My understanding of this is an NLE uses the virtualdub plugin as it renders to avi? Is this possible in vegas or premier? I would like some light shed on this issue - ideally I want a method that doesn't eat into my harddrives but I'm willing to sacrifice this if the quality is noticeable better. Paul Newman March 15th, 2008, 04:29 AM I edit in HD, then simply downconvert the final master edit ( without title tracks "on" ) ie: make a lossless file of the master cut, re-size in Virtualdub, change your project settings to your prefered SD format and drop the new file in - switch title track back on and voila, you have a clean, no twitter master suitable for output to tape or conversion to mpeg with the highest possible title quality - ie, not "resiszed" I've done this with EX1 footage shot at 1920x1080 50i as well as 1440x1080 50i and it works very well indeed. All viewed on an HD Tube monitor. Paul Adam Forgione March 15th, 2008, 06:33 AM what is this VIRTUALDUB, does it work for mac? how do i get it, id love to try it Steve Sykes March 15th, 2008, 07:51 AM I edit in HD, then simply downconvert the final master edit ( without title tracks "on" ) ie: make a lossless file of the master cut, re-size in Virtualdub,Paul So Paul by a lossless codec you mean something like, HuffyUV or QT Sheer Codec. The other codecs mentioned on this thread are lossy, i.e. visually lossless as mentioned in this thread: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=113409&highlight=lossless+rendering I would not be rendering more than 2 or 3 times so I don't think I necessarily need a lossless codec. Does any one how the Sony 10bit YUV compares to Cineform or other lossy codecs. I used to use Mainconcept's DVCPRO 50 Codec when rendering DV. Is this still a good option? Is creating a HQ uncompressed, lossy or lossless intermediate file is the best / only method to go before Virtualdub resize. Can someone please confirm Virtualdubmod can not convert directly from EX1 raw files. If I didn't want to edit my footage but just convert to SD using Virtualdubmod do I have to render an intermediate avi file first? Sorry to keep asking, and thanks for your great advice so far. Paul Newman March 15th, 2008, 10:38 AM I actualy use Canopus Lossless, although uncompressed is ideal, but the file sizes become so huge, and to be honest, I can't see the difference in the end result anyway. Virtualdub doesn't see EX1 raw files, or .mxf, which is why I prefer to edit with .mxf and then downconvert the final edit - all my tests point to a vastly superior final .avi and mpeg file for DVD using Virtualdub to do the resizing, then frame serve to Procoder or tmpeg. There's some lively and informative banter on the Grass Valley Forum about this topic, related to HDV in general and particularly the EX1. Paul Steve Sykes March 15th, 2008, 01:49 PM I actualy use Canopus Lossless, although uncompressed is ideal, but the file sizes become so huge, and to be honest, I can't see the difference in the end result anyway. Virtualdub doesn't see EX1 raw files, or .mxf, which is why I prefer to edit with .mxf and then downconvert the final edit - all my tests point to a vastly superior final .avi and mpeg file for DVD using Virtualdub to do the resizing, then frame serve to Procoder or tmpeg. There's some lively and informative banter on the Grass Valley Forum about this topic, related to HDV in general and particularly the EX1. Paul Thanks Paul, I'll have a look at the Grass Valley Forum about frameserving as I am not sure what this is and how to do this. I presume Canopus codec comes with Edius Broadcast and is it available to download or try on its own? Paul Newman March 15th, 2008, 02:16 PM You can sure download here: http://www.canopus.com/products/EDIUSBroadcast/index.php for a full 30 day trial which will give you the codecs to play with as well as direct import of EX1 files to the timeline - very fast indeed. Virtualdub appears to be Windows only. Paul Jacob Nielsen March 15th, 2008, 02:57 PM No need for intermediate renders. I use Debugmode Frameserver. Frameserve to avi from vegas, open that avi in Frameserver and use whatever resize filter settings you want. Frameserve from Virtualdub and and encode this avi from TMPG encoder. Voila! Steve Sykes March 16th, 2008, 07:07 AM No need for intermediate renders. I use Debugmode Frameserver. Frameserve to avi from vegas, open that avi in Frameserver and use whatever resize filter settings you want. Frameserve from Virtualdub and and encode this avi from TMPG encoder. Voila! Thank you Jacob, that will save me much time and especially hard drive space! What settings would you recommend selecting in the frameserve settings. RGB24, RGB32 or YUY2? There are many complicated threads on this, epecially the vagas workflow thread: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=114970&highlight=vegas+colour+space Does it matter what profile I choose in Vegas if frameserve does the rendering? What would be the cameras native colour space so that frameserve doesn't have to convert? If I choose RGB32 will that make a noticeable difference if I have asked Vegas to do colour correction on the timeline? I presume RGB32 produce longer rendering times? I feel like my workflow is getting much better now. Thanks for all your advice so far. Craig Seeman March 16th, 2008, 10:16 AM I'm shooting 1080p30 and my conclusion isn't far away from yours. On a Mac I've tried various down converts in FCP, Compressor, Episode, playing with numerous settings. I tested all results on both an HDTV and CRT SD monitor. Not all shots look bad but there is certainly a pattern to the "problem" shots. My own hunch is not that there's a problem with the Sony but rather the opposite. The resolution is extremely high and thin lines are challenging the downconvert software. There's obviously a solution because we wouldn't see wonderful films on DVD and Red users may well be in a similar situation. I think part of the issue is that many of us EX1 users haven't dealt with this kind of resolution, which actually is higher than most HDV cameras. Peter Kraft March 16th, 2008, 04:10 PM Craig, Adam, and all others on Macs and Windoze, to downconvert use MPEGStreamClip which does a hell of a job. Better then FCP and anything else myself and many others have ever used. Download for free from: www.squared5.com Craig Seeman March 16th, 2008, 05:43 PM I use MPEGStreamClip for many things. The Mac Sony Transfer Tool rewraps to .mov which is what Final Cut Pro works with. Unfortunately I don't see .m2v as one of the options from .mov. It can convert .mov to other formats but not .m2v. MPEGStreamclip Converter features: – from MPEG, MPG, VOB, PS, M2P, MOD, VRO, DAT, DCM, VDR, PVR, TS, M2T, MTS, MMV, REC, VID, AUD, AVR, TP, TP0, TRP, TOD to MPEG, TS, REC, VID, M2V, AIFF, M1A, AC3 Craig, Adam, and all others on Macs and Windoze, to downconvert use MPEGStreamClip which does a hell of a job. Better then FCP and anything else myself and many others have ever used. Download for free from: www.squared5.com Adam Forgione March 16th, 2008, 08:42 PM Craig, Adam, and all others on Macs and Windoze, to downconvert use MPEGStreamClip which does a hell of a job. Better then FCP and anything else myself and many others have ever used. Download for free from: www.squared5.com i wont be able to try it till tomorrow but if what craig says is true than i guess it doesnt matter. peter how do you use MPEGStreamClip to convert HDV to SD m2v file, sounds like it doesnt do that. Daniel Alexander March 16th, 2008, 11:31 PM Although i havent compared results side by side by some of the virtualdub and mpegstream methods, i can confirm that my 1080p hq vegas 8 mpeg conversions that i burn to DVD are almost like watching the original on the timeline (almost). I must admit i had to play around with a lot of settings as at first i was getting washed out, soft and standard dv looking video. I finally came up with a workflow and changed some settings, half of them i wasnt sure what they were doing but they seemed logical from reading the manual and now im very happy. I understand that 'reasonable' quality is going to be subjective and one mans 'good' is another mans 'blah' but honestly for me personally im very pleased with what im looking at and im usually very fussy. Anyway, just in case anyone’s interested to give this a go, heres my workflow for PAL VIDEO, but obviously for NTSC just changed settings were applicable: 1.set my properties to 1080 50i, then changed the field order to none, set the project to 32 bit, change the compositing gamma to 2.222, set full resolution rendering to best and deinterlace method to none 2.set my scopes to show me studio rgb 3.complete my edit on the timeline along with multi layer colour grading 4.once my edit is completed I add a sharpen filter to the video track and set it to 200, or if i have multiple video layers acting as colour transfers etc i add 120 to each (i know the numbers dont add up but after many tests this is what looks best to me) 5.then I render to mpeg2 then choose the DVD Pal template then hit custom 6.once in custom on the project tab I make sure video rendering is on best 7.then on the video tab I set my aspect ratio accordingly and slide the quality slider to maximum 8.also in the video tab I set the ‘profile’ to HIGH and set the ‘level’ to HIGH 9.I set the I Frames to 15 (recommended for dvd) and make sure the field order is set to none. 10.lastly on the video tab I leave the variable bit rate at its default but I do check the two pass option 11.on the advanced video tab, I change the vbr buffer size to 1194 and sampling format to 4:2:2 12.in the dc coefficient I set the value to 10bit, or 11 bit if I don’t have much motion in my video 13.I leave the rest as it is, save the settings as a new template then hit render 14.voila, I now have a stunning looking mpeg i have tested this method on all sorts of footage under different lighting conditions and shutter speeds and all produced nice results. One thing to mention though is i usually apply a computer to studio rgb to my timeline which seems to give my images a lighter, more open look which is easier for me to grade however i notice if i do this then render out with my above procedure, it results in a nice image but slightly washed out in the colour and brightness so i stay away from it now if i know my output is for dvd and instead i just manipulate my black levels by starting with a reset to none 'levels' filter applied to individual clips. Hope this helps someone out there, as if your like me you dont like the idea of using all sorts of third party plugins/programs for resizing etc. Paul Kellett March 17th, 2008, 06:25 AM Daniel. I haven't done any of this and my dvd's still look good. I'm going to try exactly your settings today,i'll let you know how my dvd's look. Question, are you watching the finished dvd on CRT or LCD tv ? I've tried setting the profile to high in the video tab,my finished dvd looked terrible. Also if if i set my project preferences to field order to none,couldn't hardly edit with that,pciture very unsmooth,also the 32 bit just makes it worse aswell. Render as DVD PAL,,, not widescreen ? . I'll try theses settings today and post my findings. Paul. Peter Kraft March 17th, 2008, 08:39 AM Unfortunately I don't see .m2v as one of the options from .mov. It can convert .mov to other formats but not .m2v. You are absolutely correct. All I wanted to say was, use MPEGStreamClip to downsize from HD to SD. IMHO it does the best job of all apps I know. I am downrezzing using the MotionJPEG B codec, 75% Quality. Gives outstanding results. Interlaced material is de-interlaced with Maker from www.dvfilm.com which yields wonderful motion blur, reducing interlace artefacts. I have to encode to m2v then, which I do using the Main Concept' MPEG2 encoder. Goes for Mac as well as for Win ( www.mainconcept.com ). Sometimes I do opt for the Bitvice encoder instead ( www.innobits.se ). Download the free trial version. Many a DVD studio uses either one of these two encoders. For good reason, I think. Hope this helps Paul Kellett March 17th, 2008, 08:46 AM Ok Dan,i tried your settings. Picture is stunning,,,until pans start,then it looks terrible,all smoothness is gone,i've tried to correct this using different setting but my mpeg-2 picture goes back to how it was before,smooth with quite good quality. I've tried different project preferences,these don't appear to affect the finished article.,so obviously this leaves the render template. Any suggestions. ? Thanks,Paul. Daniel Alexander March 17th, 2008, 09:12 AM Hi Paul, glad you had some if little success with my workflow. Im not sure why the pans arent working out, however you could try lowering the dc coefficient setting and see how that works. Ive tested this method on slow/fast pans and hand held tracking shots and it seems to hold up however i believe i forgot to change my project settings 'deinterlace method' so during those particular tests i think i left my deinterlace method to 'blend fields', not sure if this would bare any result on the final render as like u said it seems to be overwritten on render. Im going to play around with it some more to see how it all holds up under extreme filming conditions and report back. You asked what im viewing my footage back on, as i always do i monitor first on my jvc broadcast crt then my regular crt television then my 30" consumer HDTV. I tend to feel i have it right when all 3 displays display a pleasing picture. Oh and a side note, my editing in vegas since using 32bit has always been a hassle, it feels like vegas doesnt handle cpu's as well as it could and i never get real time playback, so i just leave it in 8bit until it comes time to adding colour etc which is still a pain. Dennis Schmitz March 17th, 2008, 09:18 AM MPEG Streamclip seems to offer an even better quality than virtualdubmods' smart resize filter! Exporting to H264 Mov works nice, too :) regards Dennis Paul Kellett March 17th, 2008, 10:05 AM Thanks Dan,i'll try that. Bitten by the bug now !!! hehe The pans look like 25p footage. Whenever i render footage it's got to be rendered upper field first to get good results. The vegas manual also confirms this,upper for tv,lower for dv,none for pc monitor. Also,if i record in 720/50p or 1080/50i,the finshed SD DVD looks the same. I just find 720/50p easier to edit with,load smoother,especially with 2nd monitor on. Thanks,Paul. Daniel Alexander March 17th, 2008, 10:37 AM OK, so after more tests it seems everything looks real nice except for slow pans. Theres the odd occasion where a slow pan will look nice but after doing extensive tests it seems that most pans will look horrible. So Paul as you said, setting an interlaced method does solve this but on testing this with various sources of footage it brings me back to getting mixed results. So im off to do more shooting and encoding to see what i can come up with. |