Michael,

Does clipwrap eliminate the dropped audio & video frames between footage longer than the 4gb file limit?

How about getting a handle bracket and mounting it to that.
this way the weight is centered on the center of the camera and not the front.

The only downside for A1 users is that teh transport controls are on the handle.

Thought about that. I have used the transport controls once. I suppose I could carry the remote in my back pocket. hehe

Michael,

Does clipwrap eliminate the dropped audio & video frames between footage longer than the 4gb file limit?
Yes. Besides rewraping the file in a QT wrapper, ClipWrap also Automatically recombines spanned files.

So you can combine multiple files into one seamless file.

I decided to go with the 100 gig Canon Firestore Drive. I will use this on my A cam which has a mixer and sound recorder on it anyways, I just want to eliminate the need to run tapes.

I am hoping that this unit does allow for both digital and tape recording at the same time. If not will return it for the other option.

Michael,

Have you tried combining files longer than the 4gb max and checked to see if there are any drops? This is the only thing holding me back from purchasing this unit.

I am hoping that this unit does allow for both digital and tape recording at the same time. If not will return it for the other option.

Denny, if you are talking about the FireStore "FSC" , then yes, you can record with out tapes in the A1.

Denny, if you are talking about the FireStore "FSC" , then yes, you can record with out tapes in the A1.

Can you also record with both, tapes and the FSC ?

Can you also record with both, tapes and the FSC ?

Yes. no problems with both, tapes and the FSC. I don't use tapes anymore, but some do as a back up.

Yes. no problems with both, tapes and the FSC. I don't use tapes anymore, but some do as a back up.


Thanks Rob, how do you like the FSC, I really would love the CF method but I get my share of Catholic Mass Weddings that last an hour, and worry about dropped frames in footage lasting more than an hour.

Someone uses both Cineform ProspectHD and this gadget? With what result?

Hi Hernan,

I use the Sony with CineForm NeoHDV with no problems. The files come off of the CF cards as if you took them off the tape via firewire.

Garret

I've tried everything I can think of since getting the MRC1K to make my A1 see it but nothing works. Different cables, everything advised to others on this thread, but it just doesn't see it, and I can't get into the iLink menu on the unit which seems to me like it can't see the A1 at all (it's greyed out).

I'm starting to think it might be the A1's firewire socket as I've seen many problems written about it on the net. I tried to dig in some footage to a MacBook Pro and it couldn't see it either so I'll try it with my Mac Pro tomorrow to see if it definitely is the socket.

I used the unit with a Canon HV10 and HV20 no problem but you don't get the 'synchro' control from the camera's stop/start button (is that right?). Just recording with the 2 REC buttons on the unit seems to work well so I'm assuming the unit is working???

Any advice greatly welcomed.

Thanks.

Hi Hernan,

I use the Sony with CineForm NeoHDV with no problems. The files come off of the CF cards as if you took them off the tape via firewire.

Garret

Thanks Garrett! But then i suppose u have to transcode the M2T files to Cineform´s AVIs by HDLink.

1. How much time does that process take, let´s say for 1 hour of footage?

2. Is the final quality of the converted clips the same than capturing from tape to Cineform (as i do with Premiere)?

Hi Hernan,

You are correct. Once I've copied the files I use HDLink to transcode into CineForm AVI's. The time it takes to transcode will of course depend on your machine but I'm using a Q9450 based machine and it goes pretty fast. I don't remember exactly how long it takes but it is faster than real time. The quality is exactly the same as capture from take and in fact I prefer to use HDLink as it allows me to set up batch transcoding.

I have to say that I'm really happy with the unit and how it has streamlined my workflow. I recently shot a first birthday party and within an hour of the end of the party I had a video edited and burned.

Garrett

Can someone with the Sony unit please check to see if you record for extended periods of time, are there dropped frames or audio when you combine the clips with clipwrap? Thank you.

FCP doesn't recognize M2T format. That's Premier....But Avid MC does. It runs on MAC or PC straight out of the box. Problem solved :-)

Just checked out ClipWrap. It looks like an excellent tool!

In the online tutorial for ClipWrap, it mentioned that it will join together separate files recorded by tapeless devices (it specifically mentioned a Firestore in the tutorial) and will account for the HDV GOP in order to eliminate dropped frames when joining them together.

Has anyone checked the media that they've rewrapped using ClipWrap to see if it eliminates the dropped frame issues that people have gotten here?

Glenn,

I have asked this question twice and have not gotten a definitive response. This is the only questions holding me back from purchasing this unit. Hopefully someone out there can run a test for us......

I contacted DivergentMedia, the software company behind ClipWrap, and asked them if they have used the MC1 and whether or not their software can stitch the files back together in such a way as to avoid the short dropouts that some users have mentioned. Here's the email that I got back from Mike Woodworth over at DivergentMedia:

Thanks for the interest in ClipWrap. We have not tested with the HVR-MC1 internally, but I know we have customers using ClipWrap with it. ClipWrap will combine these spanned files for a seamless playback (no dropouts), the problem is we rely on specific naming conventions to detect these spanned files. I believe you need to slightly alter the file's names in order for ClipWrap to detect and combine the sets.

So it sounds like they have customers that have worked with the device and have had success in the past, although it's still a little unclear whether their software specifically solves the issue that many have mentioned.

I would still like to hear from somebody on this board who has the MC1 and has used ClipWrap with it.

You that have the HVR-MRC1K, can you show some detailed/different angle photos (top, both sides view, of the attachment and cable routing. This Photo leaves out top view and right side view and how the velcro is installed. Thanks.

Would like to see more photos too!

Would like to see more photos too!

I posted pictures of my mount here:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/canon-xh-series-hdv-camcorders/143239-sony-hvr-mrc1-mount-w-pics.html

[QUOTE=Brian Morris;995769]Ok... so the credit card is heating up but I found some more deals.

.......Sony HVRMRC1K Memory Recording Unit | Full Compass (http://www.fullcompass.com/product/362140.html) -Full Compass is carrying the unit for $783.21 ($884.95 on B&H)...........

I emailed Full Compass regarding expedited shipping on the MRC1 ( the web site states "usually ships 2-3 weeks " )- here's my reply :

"Hello! Sony is so big it isn't the most compliant vendor I have. We quote 2 to 3 weeks, but it could be 1 week to ten years. If it's in country it isn't a problem. If it's in Japan that's another story. Sorry I can't paint a rosier picture." (from Mike Beckon )

I'll give him an A+ for being honest.

This program that can be downlaoded from Sony for free combines the 4GB files without any dropped frames:

HVR-DR60 | Hard Disk Recording Unit

Check out this other thread for proper credit to Darin Clifton for a brilliant find,

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/canon-xh-series-hdv-camcorders/143842-hvr-mrc1-a1-bottom-line.html

I tested it with a shoot that ran over an hour. I basically had what should have been two clips, one 30 second clip laying down color bars and one other clip of the performance. The CF card had 5 m2t files on it. I popped the CF card into my CF reader and fired up the application. It showed that it would import two files. The first was the color bars and the second was the entire show, no dropped frames of video or audio.

With that I have to say this make this unit one of the best accessories I could imagine for any HDV camera.

I know Sony wouldn't be so stupid to put out a unit that couldn't put out completely seamless long clips. I just with they would have made this program easier to find out about. But, at least it's free.

All you HVR MRC1K owners go download!

Sorry, the link to the program didn't come through. Here it is again,

HVR-DR60 | Hard Disk Recording Unit (http://www.sony.ca/hdv/HVR-DR60_60i/products/HVR-DR60/soft.html)

And they have a Windows and FCP version.

Just done a 33 minute 'out of the windows' shot and I can confirm joining the clips using the software downloaded from Sony it DOES NOT LOSE AUDIO whereas if I just butt the 2 clips together on the timeline it does. Many thanks, all seems sorted ! (Just need to overcome the 2 second delay in recording in sync mode now...)
Oliver.

I posted pictures of my mount here:[/url]

Steve, I noticed that your viewfinder becomes unusable in this set-up, no? Do you only use it in combination with your lcd and a tripod or also when handheld? With your setup you also might have the possibility to extend the recorder on the right side of your camera so you still could use the viewfinder.

Sorry, the link to the program didn't come through. Here it is again,

HVR-DR60 | Hard Disk Recording Unit (http://www.sony.ca/hdv/HVR-DR60_60i/products/HVR-DR60/soft.html)

And they have a Windows and FCP version.

Hi Garrett, thanks for the link. How do you get this utility to unpack? I tried to run it on my Win XP SP2 system and it just says it's not a Win32 application. Any suggestions?

Richard

I just downloaded it and double clicked. It's just a small app that runs straight from the .exe file. I'm running it on Vista but it should run fine on XP. I don't have access to my XP 32bit machine right now but I'll try it on that once my XP machine frees up.

Garrett

You guys think this will work with a Sony EX1?

I just downloaded it and double clicked. It's just a small app that runs straight from the .exe file. I'm running it on Vista but it should run fine on XP. I don't have access to my XP 32bit machine right now but I'll try it on that once my XP machine frees up.

Garrett

Hi Garrett. My download was corrupt somehow. I had to download it about 5 times before it was OK. Anyway it is working now, thanks.

Richard

Steve, I noticed that your viewfinder becomes unusable in this set-up, no? Do you only use it in combination with your lcd and a tripod or also when handheld? With your setup you also might have the possibility to extend the recorder on the right side of your camera so you still could use the viewfinder.

Yes, I do not use my viewfinder on tripod or monopod. I do not hand hold so my mount would not work very well if I did. I would just use my "extended" shoe on top of the camera instead if I needed the viewfinder.

Rycote | 037303 Hot Shoe Extension | 037303 | B&H Photo Video (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/407098-REG/Rycote_037303_037303_Hot_Shoe_Extension.html)

Hi guys. Just read through all the posts about this device and really like what I read. It sounds like the program cited about will alleviate the 4gb max clip issues. What about tape changes? Will it patch together two files that are split by a tape change when you rehit the record button? If this doesn't make sense what I mean is...
1. You are recording to CF and tape.
2. Tape fills up...you leave CF recording.
3. Eject tape, put in new tape.
4. Hit record so that CF continues recording and tape starts recording.

From reading the posts this work sequence previously would cause dropped frames at step 4...will using Sony's little program fix this?
Andy

Looking at footage from my XH-A1 and a friend's Sony FX1 (same optics at the Z1) on the same monitor, the Canon's image is slightly sharper both for moving and static subjects. The FX1000/Z5 is supposed to be an improvement on the older models in this respect, but I've not seen any footage yet. There are two possible sources of improvement:
1) better lens;
2) better MPEG2 encoding.
If the Sony image is now as good as the Canon (can anyone else comment?) then it's down to which one feels better to operate, whether the Sony is worth the extra cash (it's about 20% more in the UK IIRC) and whether you think CMOS chips (Sony) are good, bad or indifferent.

HTH

Mark, I had the FX1 and now have the Z5. The Z5 is much sharper with greater detail. The overall picture on the Z5 is significantly better. I've never done an A/B with the Z5 and the Canon, but using the Z5 with the CF recorder attached is a dream. As you probably know it fits flush with the cam body and feeds right off of the Z5's battery. It's just fantastic to use and the results can be played back immediately via the HDMI output of the Z5.

For anyone wanting to know the exact process of making it work with the A1 here it is:

So record to card only this is my process:
- In the A1's menu so "System Setup ---> DVControl ON"
- Connect the firewire cable between the A1 and the MRC1K
- Turn on the MRC1K throw in your CF card (it won't let you get to the MRC1K's menu without a card in it) and go press the MENU button
- Now go "SETTING ----> CAMLINK SEL"
- Choose "SYNCHRO"
- Now on the A1 you should see a green box next to "DVCONTROL"
- Your now able to control the recording with the A1's record buttons and don't need to shoot tape at the same time

That's all there is to it. Once it's set once you don't need to do it again. Just connect the two and turn the MRC1K and you're ready to go.
I may to a little youtube vid about it or something.

OK- what if this doesn't work. I can't get to see my A1- it thinks when i turn it on it's connected to a pc. A couple of times it actually recorded when i turned my cam on then the mrc. I couldn't get it to record in Dv... only HDV. I'd like to record HDV to tape & DV to card for a project I have coming up in 10 days ! DV control on cam set to on , MRC set to synchro , (cache mode) , I Get the GREEN BOX next to DV control , when I press record on my cam - the green light on dv goes red then back to green - does not record. Cam is recording as usual.

Pullin my hair out !!! Please Help !!

OK- I couldn't get it to record in Dv... only HDV. I'd like to record HDV to tape & DV to card for a project I have coming up in 10 days ! DV control on cam set to on , MRC set to synchro , (cache mode) , I Get the GREEN BOX next to DV control , when I press record on my cam - the green light on dv goes red then back to green - does not record. Cam is recording as usual.

I don't own the MRC unit, nor do I plan on it anytime soon, but perhaps you need to check the A1's menu SIGNAL SETUP settings & make sure it's set for the signal you want to go to tape. On that note though... unless the MRC unit has the ability to downconvert on the fly, I don't see how you can record two separate formats at the same time.

unless the MRC unit has the ability to downconvert on the fly, I don't see how you can record two separate formats at the same time.

Thinking the same here, you can record in dv or hdv with the canon were the downconverting is done by the camera for dv but it can't process hdv and dv simultaneously to 2 different sources. You"ll stuck with either dv or hdv I'm afraid.

On that note though... unless the MRC unit has the ability to downconvert on the fly, I don't see how you can record two separate formats at the same time.

I don't know what the Canon's capabilities are Bill, but in actuality, with the Sony Z5, you can record in HDV to tape and simultaneously record SD DV on the MRC unit. The Z5 does the downcoversion on the fly to the CF recorder.

I got to thinking last night - maybe the A1 will only down-convert during playback. It may send via firewire the same signal that is being recorded - with no option to convert in record mode. It (mrc1) records when I select HDV - but not when I select DV when the cam is in HDV mode. Anyone notice similar situations that has one ?

I don't know what the Canon's capabilities are Bill, but in actuality, with the Sony Z5, you can record in HDV to tape and simultaneously record SD DV on the MRC unit. The Z5 does the downcoversion on the fly to the CF recorder.

I got to thinking last night - maybe the A1 will only down-convert during playback. It may send via firewire the same signal that is being recorded - with no option to convert in record mode. It (mrc1) records when I select HDV - but not when I select DV when the cam is in HDV mode. Anyone notice similar situations that has one ?

Ken and Darin, that's basically my point. The A1 wasn't designed with this type of external recorder in mind and for this type of scenario to work, the MRC would have to be able to do the downconvert via the firewire connection. Regarding the Z5 Ken mentions, maybe the MRC is connected through some other connection built in to the docking mount that has separate circuitry and doesn't need firewire so the Z5 can determine this. If it IS firewire dependent I don't see any other way other than the MRC unit playing the downconvert role.

OK- if the MRC will only record in the same standard as the A1 - I can deal with that ( just don't remember reading that anywhere) What I can't deal with is a $1,000 investment that won't even do that when I ask it to.
I turn on my camera , turn on the MRC1, get the green light on DV control , press the record button on the cam - camera records normally , DV green goes red for 1 second- then back to green , MRC does nothing - no cache mode icon in the display. Twice out of Ten times - they have "hooked up" and recorded ( and I had the cache mode icon on the MRC display) . I basicaly left the MRC on and turned the camera off & on about 3-4 times ; they finally found each other. The MRC won't even record by itself when I press the record buttons manually. 1 second on- back off.

I someone KNOWS - PLEASE tell me what I'm doing wrong.

After further tinkering.... the MRC will only record what the cam sees ( HDV - or- DV ) - it won't do "Hybrid" recording like it should with a Sony camera. For Me - The DV mode appears to log clips without problems, the HDV mode however - in cache mode - will record the cache , then a few frames, drop a few frames , then record normally again.
Is this an experience that more of you have had - and maybe just a quirk of the Canon/Sony not being fully compatible - or is it just ME ?

Ken and Darin, that's basically my point. The A1 wasn't designed with this type of external recorder in mind and for this type of scenario to work, the MRC would have to be able to do the downconvert via the firewire connection. Regarding the Z5 Ken mentions, maybe the MRC is connected through some other connection built in to the docking mount that has separate circuitry and doesn't need firewire so the Z5 can determine this. If it IS firewire dependent I don't see any other way other than the MRC unit playing the downconvert role.

Bill, I believe the docking mount on the Z5 simply serves as a convenient means of a firewire connection. Sony even goes so far as to mention that when using the MRC, the seperate firewire port is unavailable. I'm certain the MRC unit plays no role in the downconversion. If you think about it, there aren't even any menu items in the MRC unit that would even hint at that. On the other hand the Z5 does have these menu items (downcoversion, 16:9 or crop on downconversion etc).

I read someplace, somewhere, that there is a Synchro setting in this unit. Maybe someone can jump in here and help you.


After further tinkering.... the MRC will only record what the cam sees ( HDV - or- DV ) - it won't do "Hybrid" recording like it should with a Sony camera. For Me - The DV mode appears to log clips without problems, the HDV mode however - in cache mode - will record the cache , then a few frames, drop a few frames , then record normally again.
Is this an experience that more of you have had - and maybe just a quirk of the Canon/Sony not being fully compatible - or is it just ME ?

I Just got my MRC1 yesterday, and I see exactly the same as what Darin describes. Normal mode works fine, but the cache mode causes a break between the cached video and the point where the start button was pressed. In fact there may even be frames missing from after the start point which is not very useful at all. I was shooting in 25F in case that makes a difference.

Lou, the synchro mode is used to make the MRC1 start and stop recording automatically when the camera's start button is pressed. I believe Darin must have this set already to see what he is seeing.

Richard

Summary....... I'm not happy with this CF recorder !

Synchro , cache, DV - flawless ( and seamless ) one clip , no pauses , no dropped frames !
Same settings - HDV ...... first 9 seconds of cache mode in one clip, 5 second gap , next clip starts about 1 second after record button is pressed. ( from a produced file converted to avi format ) Playback DIRECTLY from the MRC thru the A1 - cache mode is one clip - 2 second gap - second clip resumes recording.

If you only want to record in SD with your nice Canon HDV camera - it will probably work fine. If you'd really like to see your work in seamless HD - better keep looking.

This thing just doesn't act right with an A1 ! Half the time when I turn it on - it thinks it's connected to a PC !!

Me thinks it will find it's way back to B & H very soon. Maybe if I had a Z5 ...............it would work like it's supposed to ???

This thing just doesn't act right with an A1 ! Half the time when I turn it on - it thinks it's connected to a PC !!

You are the second person I hear complaining about this and I find this a much worse problem then what it does with the cache. I was planning to order one today but because I'm doing weddings and events I would find it a big issue trying to have the unit recognize the camera right when I turn it on. There just is no time for something like this.

Are there more users that can confirm this type of behaviour or is it just a setting in the camera or sony unit that could prevent this?

I got mine a week or two ago, and have used it twice. Set up with no problems. Used only with HDV, no problems. Used with cache settings, no problems. Have operated it with cache settings directly from the unit, and via a lanc control on the camera, no problems.

So far, so good. My only complaint is that the clip numbering starts again at one when I delete the old clips. It isn't obvious from the manual how to change this, or if it can be changed. Can anyone tell me how to do this?

Does the unit recognize your camera as a camera and not as a pc sometimes? Are you using it with a canon Xh-a1?

I've connected to both cameras, with the Sony A1 I can only use it in "follow" mode, not synchro. With the Canon A1 it can be either. Cache mode works with both cameras.

So far, it has not confused the camera with a PC. I have downloaded the clips via the card reader in the computer and not connected the unit to the PC, so I don't know if that would make any difference.

In both cases, the downloaded clips have played ok - perhaps a little stutter right at the beginning with cache mode, but only half a second or so, then it's smooth.

If only two people have these problems, perhaps it is their units that are faulty.

Darin, why not turn cache mode off when recording in HDV. The unit appears to work so well with the Canon otherwise, why throw the baby out with the bathwater?