Can you still record to CF while changing tapes? If so, how?

Thanks for all the info Evan, much appreciated.

I have the same question ... is the XH A1 putting video out of the firewire even when not recording? or only when recording? (e.g. can video still be recorded while changing tapes).... is the video out of the firewire impacted by the tape change?

The firewire hdv output continues during the tape stop and tape eject functions. When record is enabled on the new tape, apparently some frames are dropped, but output continues.

Depends on how sensitive your capture/ editing software is to the dropped frames (or maybe timecode is reset). I record to a nNovia backup recorder through tape changes, but I don’t record on the new tape until I reach an appropriate point.

The firewire hdv output continues during the tape stop and tape eject functions. When record is enabled on the new tape, apparently some frames are dropped, but output continues.

Depends on how sensitive your capture/ editing software is to the dropped frames (or maybe timecode is reset). I record to a nNovia backup recorder through tape changes, but I don’t record on the new tape until I reach an appropriate point.

thanks .. I checked the manual and it does say some audio may be dropped briefly .. but it seem slike both audio and video may be dropped ?

and from your post it sounds like when the record is engaged it when it happens? does it also happen when you hit stop (e.g. when you press record to stop recording) or do you just let the tape run out?

and it also seems from your post that say for a live event, if you re-engage record on the new tape, doing so in a gap between speakers, for example, minimized the impact of the dropout (?)... I guess it's a balancing act between when the dropout occurs and how much is missed by not recording on tape as well (e.g. the extreme would be recoding only on the external device but having no tape at all)

thanks for the info ...!!

Dave,

Yes, you can definitely stop, eject and reload another tape without interrupting the firewire HDV output.

Now think in terms of timecode, the timecode is linked to the tape, and presumably continues out the firewire port after the tape is stopped, or the recording device just continues on it’s own. When the new tape is started, the timecode has to change.

I use an nNovia recorder to back up the tape, and it will record through the tape change, but my editor, Avid, is not happy about the time code or dropped frame glitch.

I tested the process by recording the A1 firewire output into an HV30 cam. That is where I discovered the glitch happens with the record function on the new tape.
Bottom line for me is that I cannot import a nNovia backup file that includes a record enable glitch. I can however split the file, and import the two halves, with only the loss of about 1 second of media.

Hope this helps.

Not sure if this has been posted before, operating instructions for Sony HVRMRC1 ..
http://www.fullcompass.com/common/files/10326-Sony%20HVRMRC1K.pdf

Dave,

Yes, you can definitely stop, eject and reload another tape without interrupting the firewire HDV output.

Now think in terms of timecode, the timecode is linked to the tape, and presumably continues out the firewire port after the tape is stopped, or the recording device just continues on it’s own. When the new tape is started, the timecode has to change.

I use an nNovia recorder to back up the tape, and it will record through the tape change, but my editor, Avid, is not happy about the time code or dropped frame glitch.

I tested the process by recording the A1 firewire output into an HV30 cam. That is where I discovered the glitch happens with the record function on the new tape.
Bottom line for me is that I cannot import a nNovia backup file that includes a record enable glitch. I can however split the file, and import the two halves, with only the loss of about 1 second of media.

Hope this helps.

So you're saying that when you hit STOP on the record button, that doesn't tell the Sony CF recorder to stop recording? You have to hit record seperately on the CF recorder?

And a bit off topic, based on what you're saying and have done with an HV30, I can link an HV20 to the firewire output and use that to back up the shot that my XH-A1 is missing during tape changes? Pretty cool!

Dave,

Yes, you can definitely stop, eject and reload another tape without interrupting the firewire HDV output.

Now think in terms of timecode, the timecode is linked to the tape, and presumably continues out the firewire port after the tape is stopped, or the recording device just continues on it’s own. When the new tape is started, the timecode has to change.

I use an nNovia recorder to back up the tape, and it will record through the tape change, but my editor, Avid, is not happy about the time code or dropped frame glitch.

I tested the process by recording the A1 firewire output into an HV30 cam. That is where I discovered the glitch happens with the record function on the new tape.
Bottom line for me is that I cannot import a nNovia backup file that includes a record enable glitch. I can however split the file, and import the two halves, with only the loss of about 1 second of media.

Hope this helps.

Terry, this is very helpful.
- How do you split the file?
- That does sound like something interesting if I can take DV in on my HV20 (I didn't know I could..will have to check this)
- I suppose 1 second of missed content is better than 30 seconds (or what feels like a painful eternity when editing) due to tape change ... is the 1 second due only to the interruption of the record function (or restart), the timecode change or both? Have you found any way to save any other frames from the 1 second ? (I suppose you are talking HDV with long GOP thus more time beween I frames).

thanks for any additional info, it's really helpful for those of us considering the jump to something like this (I suppose I could record without tape and avoid both the timecode and the record enable dropped frames (??), but I'm not sure I could somach it, seems like too much of a chance for other problems to be introduced and possible not have any recording).

THANK YOU!!

So you're saying that when you hit STOP on the record button, that doesn't tell the Sony CF recorder to stop recording? You have to hit record seperately on the CF recorder?

And a bit off topic, based on what you're saying and have done with an HV30, I can link an HV20 to the firewire output and use that to back up the shot that my XH-A1 is missing during tape changes? Pretty cool!

Randy check the manuals for the camera and recorder (shown in this thread) .. I believe you have to set the syncro on the cam and recorder and the CF recorder will record in sync with your record function on the cam..the CFrecorder manual shows the possibilities, both start and stop when you do, or the opposite (basically) which would help with tape change - when you stop, it starts (incl a pre-buffer), and bridges the gap between multiple tapes.. cool stuff and not unreasonably priced

Randy,
The firewire output contains both the video stream and control data to the recorder. As Dave suggested, consult your manuals to set the recorder and camera to do what is best for you. In my case, I elected to configure the recorder to run without regard of the camera stop signal.

Dave,
I “split” the m2t files with a freeware program “HDVtoMpeg2” (ver 1.11.89), consult your local google. The program allows m2t input and m2t output if you tell it to. It has the standard timeline to set in and out points, yes it takes a little trial and error, but it works and it is free. Also, it just copies the data… no transcoding.

Also, be advised that I only work in HDV, not DV. HDVtoMpeg2 will not load a DV file, but most common editors will easily work with DV. I haven’t tested DV recording with the A1, but assume it would behave similar to HDV.

I still like recording to tape, and use the hard disk nNovia as backup, just my preference. If the tape runs out at a critical moment, I just calmly load a new one and wait till an appropriate time to resume tape recording.

Terry

It's in stock now at B&H :) . Too bad no cash to spend on it atm :(.

Yup it sure is. Just purchased one and should have it Friday, and should be fun to use it Saturday.

Yup it sure is. Just purchased one and should have it Friday, and should be fun to use it Saturday.

what CF cards did you buy for it? how much?

Hey guys, I'm really excited about this unit as I've stated elsewhere previously. I KNOW these have been covered in this "book" of replies to this thread, but I just want to confirm the following before I buy one of these (and possibly ending up with about 10 for all cams used in business... I wonder if I can get a bulk purchase discount???)

Anyways... final questions:
1- It WILL record 24f/p in HDV mode just fine???

2- How much "real life" can you expect out of the standard battery for continuous recording?

3- You CAN continue to capture footage while changing out a tape without missing a beat???

4- Is there a file size limit (Possibly FAT32 file system?) where it breaks up the files??? ie, can I record say 60 minutes and it be in ONE file? If not, how much of a break is there during seperation of the clips?

5- Has anyone shot with this for a good amount of duration and had any problems with the captured files on the CF card??? ie, corrupted data, etc.

I'm not wanting to completely replace tape... I'll use tape as a backup and hopefully be able to use the card files that will SPEEEED up many of the projects I'll soon be picking up.

Thanks again, and sorry for asking things that was probably already covered, just wanted REAL hard proof by experience (not speculation, hear-say or "manual" knowledge) of these before I buy......

what CF cards did you buy for it? how much?
I purchased 3 16GB 133X transcend that many have had good luck with. They were only $35 each from newegg. Looking at the 300X Transcend as well. We'll see after I play with it this weekend.

I ordered one when I got the in stock email from B&H and a Lexar 16gb 300x. Does it come with a battery or do you need to purchase a battery and charger separately?

I shoot with both a canon A1 and h1 and had a few questions about this unit (Sony HVRMRC1).
1- We edit with Cineform aspect HD to Adobe Premiere CS3. How would importing the m2t files from the unit integrate into our editing workflow?
2- How does the resulting footage compare to the uncompressed files when using that new XDR cf recorder made by Convergent Design?
3- Marty Hudzik brought up an ergonomic question for the H1. I have a gold mount on the back of my H1, which I use to mount an Anton bauer dionic 90, which powers my Frezzi mini fill. I was trying to imagine how I could also mount the sony unit in addition, and i remembered that I had bought an Anton bauer extender plate assy. so that I could mount a Firestore unitafter the battery. I put the additional bracket on, and it looks like it will work ( though I don't have the unit to try).
4- One thing I didn't like about the firestore unit (which I got rid of) was that it connects via firewire. The firewire plug on the H1 is in a terrible location...hopefully it will work better with the Sony. I like the fact that the Convergent design unit uses a bnc plug to communicate.
Any information would be apprecited.
Bruce Yarock
Yarock Video & Photography (http://www.yarock.com)

Hey guys, I'm really excited about this unit as I've stated elsewhere previously. I KNOW these have been covered in this "book" of replies to this thread, but I just want to confirm the following before I buy one of these (and possibly ending up with about 10 for all cams used in business... I wonder if I can get a bulk purchase discount???)

Anyways... final questions:
1- It WILL record 24f/p in HDV mode just fine???

2- How much "real life" can you expect out of the standard battery for continuous recording?

3- You CAN continue to capture footage while changing out a tape without missing a beat???

4- Is there a file size limit (Possibly FAT32 file system?) where it breaks up the files??? ie, can I record say 60 minutes and it be in ONE file? If not, how much of a break is there during seperation of the clips?

5- Has anyone shot with this for a good amount of duration and had any problems with the captured files on the CF card??? ie, corrupted data, etc.

I'm not wanting to completely replace tape... I'll use tape as a backup and hopefully be able to use the card files that will SPEEEED up many of the projects I'll soon be picking up.

Thanks again, and sorry for asking things that was probably already covered, just wanted REAL hard proof by experience (not speculation, hear-say or "manual" knowledge) of these before I buy......

1. Yes
2. N/A for now. I know it says up to 6hrs with the standard battery. If it goes 3hrs I'm happy. Will know sat.
3. N/A
4. Fat32 Limits to 4gb size. It just splits the file with no break. You can connect the two later in your nle
5. N/A

I know others will be able to answer 2, 3, and 5 for you in specific. Take Care

I think asked already but not answered, does the Sony HVRMRC1 come with a battery? it looks like from the photo of 'box opening' it doesn't (??) ... but the B&H site doesn't say which battery is needed... can anyone say and also example of a charger? all my cameras are canon so I am thinking I'll need sony style battery and charger, correct?
thanks..

I think asked already but not answered, does the Sony HVRMRC1 come with a battery? it looks like from the photo of 'box opening' it doesn't (??) ... but the B&H site doesn't say which battery is needed... can anyone say and also example of a charger? all my cameras are canon so I am thinking I'll need sony style battery and charger, correct?
thanks..

There is no battery included. Some use the L series batteries as they are slim and give the CF recorder enough power for a good amount of recording time.

1. Yes
2. N/A for now. I know it says up to 6hrs with the standard battery. If it goes 3hrs I'm happy. Will know sat.
3. N/A
4. Fat32 Limits to 4gb size. It just splits the file with no break. You can connect the two later in your nle
5. N/A

I know others will be able to answer 2, 3, and 5 for you in specific. Take Care

Thanks Monday... I may soon be ordering the first 2. Knowing the files are broken without missing a beat, that is great news...

I think asked already but not answered, does the Sony HVRMRC1 come with a battery? it looks like from the photo of 'box opening' it doesn't (??) ... but the B&H site doesn't say which battery is needed... can anyone say and also example of a charger? all my cameras are canon so I am thinking I'll need sony style battery and charger, correct?
thanks..

As Randy said you will need to purchase a battery for the recorder and also a charger. It does not come with either. It does work with non sony NP-f570 or bigger type batteries.

As Randy said you will need to purchase a battery for the recorder and also a charger. It does not come with either. It does work with non sony NP-f570 or bigger type batteries.

so how did it go, did you use it this past weekend? how was it to use? have you checked out the files yet?

so how did it go, did you use it this past weekend? how was it to use? have you checked out the files yet?
It worked very well. Loaded the footage to the computer quickly and was able to start editing right away. Very good investment I must say. I must admit I was very confused at first with how to use the device. I turned on the memory recorder first then the camera and it would not sync at all. Then I followed Evan's process with having the camera on first without the fire wire port in the cam and then connect it to the recorder and it worked with no problems. I know someone else may make the same mistake. I must say with the small 570 battery attached to the recorder it feels like it weighs easily 2lbs. I Velcro the device to the back of the canon and tried it with the glidecam and I must say it was heavy.

I Velcro the device to the back of the canon and tried it with the glidecam and I must say it was heavy.
I'm very interested in the MRC1, can you show a picture of it velcro'd to the back of your A1?

Hi Monday,

Maybe you've posted the reason and I've missed it, but why don't you mount the MRCK1 in the hotshoe? I find it to be quite light and equally balanced there...even with a battery like the F730.

I'm very interested in the MRC1, can you show a picture of it velcro'd to the back of your A1?

I'll post it tonight for you when I get back home.

Hi Monday,

Maybe you've posted the reason and I've missed it, but why don't you mount the MRCK1 in the hotshoe? I find it to be quite light and equally balanced there...even with a battery like the F730.

The Problem is I use two wireless mics for my events and when not using that I use a light as well, and only have 1 hot shoe and 1 strap. So it was easier for me to velcro it on the back than the top where it will shifts the balance of the camera for me. I can get use to it but I really like it on the back of the camera instead, and it feels well balanced as well. Not everyone will feel comfortable with putting it back there.

Monday

Read through the manual and you can't record audio during tape changes. Shucks. Also, it seems you can't start the CF unit to record via the CF unit and then have the camcorder start via the record button on the camcorder to have one recording independently of the other.

I wanted to buy this thing so I could record video AND audio during tape changes. Seems I can't continue recording through a tape change OR I would have to record during the tape change and not during normal operation based on what the manual says.

:(

Even with those shortcomings, it's still amazing and I'll end up buying it anyway as it will help the studio I work with to more easily do same day edits. Maybe those expectations I had were a bit much?

I've got to admit the cache setting on this device is totally AWESOME!!! It buffer records 7 secs till you hit that record button. Now it's great knowing you can catch that special moment with 7secs buffer record without worrying you missed something. Of course your camera has to be pointed in that direction of the moment taking place. What a nice feature! Sorry for rambling on here but you can tell I'm pretty excited.

I've got to admit the cache setting on this device is totally AWESOME!!! It buffer records 7 secs till you hit that record button. Now it's great knowing you can catch that special moment with 7secs buffer record without worrying you missed something. Of course your camera has to be pointed in that direction of the moment taking place. What a nice feature! Sorry for rambling on here but you can tell I'm pretty excited.
Yeah, saw that and thought "oOooOOOo!" heh

Does it record the audio as well?

Yeah, saw that and thought "oOooOOOo!" heh

Does it record the audio as well?

Yup! Very nice feature. I'm going to enjoy it on my event for tomorrow.

I just got my CF recorder and it is a dream! I film outdoor tv and still use SD and this is a drag and drop dream i plug it in and pull the AVI files to hard drive and drag into FCP timeline I bought a 32 GB transend card for it and it gives me 146 min of record time ! almost 2.5 hrs

Im going to order mine very soon.
Where do you see yourself attaching it?
My hotshoe is taken.

Is there a significant advantage of the CF recorder over a Firestore Hard Drive type device?

Is there a significant advantage of the CF recorder over a Firestore Hard Drive type device?

Yes 1. No moving parts. 2. Swappable memory. 3. I believe it weighs less.

Yes the CF has its advantages It is smaller and weighs less and no moving parts (hard drive) less power consumption . If you have alot of CF cards you can shoot alot, and not have to dump the HD like on the firestore

its faster to boot up and is faster to work with I have both the MRC1 and the firestore pro hd and man do i like the MRC1 for what i do. i record in SD for broadcast and the avi files are easy to work with in FCP.

I want to get a bracket that will put it out to the side i see B&H has one. so i can use the shoe for lights

Yes the CF has its advantages It is smaller and weighs less and no moving parts (hard drive) less power consumption . If you have alot of CF cards you can shoot alot, and not have to dump the HD like on the firestore

its faster to boot up and is faster to work with I have both the MRC1 and the firestore pro hd and man do i like the MRC1 for what i do. i record in SD for broadcast and the avi files are easy to work with in FCP.

I want to get a bracket that will put it out to the side i see B&H has one. so i can use the shoe for lights
Kirk, did you ever think about purchasing a handle bracket of some kind and mounting the MRC1 on your cameras handle instead of your hotshoe. By doing this might very well make your camera better balanced than mounting it on the side or up front on your cameras hotshoe. I'm not a hug fan of side camera brackets, because they have always seem to throw off my cameras balance one way or the other.

I have 2 different ones which work great.
HDV Handle Bracket | VFGadgets.com (http://www.vfgadgets.com/grip-camera/hdv-handle-bracket)

and

Delvcam | DELVG10801 Handle Bracket for Sony HDV | DELV-G1080-1 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/398635-REG/Delvcam_DELV_G1080_1_DELVG10801_Handle_Bracket_for.html)

I prefer the VFGadgets HDV handle bracket, because it has a smaller form factor. It should be perfect for the MRC1.
If you are running cables of any kind then the DELCAM bracket is better because it has cable management on it.

I use them currently to mount my large Sony HVL-LBP LED light on my cameras handle and this keeps my rig balanced very nicely. I'm looking at picking up a couple of MRC1's and mounting them on my camera handle.

micheal

It looks good the only problem is that it would cover the vtr controls on the XHA1!

kirk

Kirk

The FSC comes with a cradle to mount the Firestore. I built a simple bracket that uses two velcro straps to hold it on top of the handle of my A1. The FSC comes with a cradle mount. When I have the FSC turned on I use the playback and VTR controls on the FSC. This is one of the major advantages of the FSC and CF recorders. You don't have to rewind tape.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/canon-xh-series-hdv-camcorders/103650-how-do-you-mount-firestore-fsc-canon-a1.html

Im going to order mine very soon.
Where do you see yourself attaching it?
My hotshoe is taken.

Velcro to the back

Any one can upload some test file.
I would like to try a native file in my Premier CS3. I wonder if CS4 or CS3 would handle this native m2t file. Even more if the time code could be retained. I heard that Premier just handle m2t file time code from sony cameras.

Thanks kevin, that looks neat, although i think id prefer it on the handle.
I ordered mine today with 2 transcend 133x 32gb cards.
I hope they are good enough.
I just have to get batteries now.

I gotta say the way you have the recording unit on the back makes it look like the unit was made for the XHA1.

Very cool.

I see lots of you have used this unit with the Canon A1 but is there anybody out there who has used it with the H1? and if so is it the same to set up as the A1?


Regards

Mick

Can anybody with a PAL type XH-A1 confirm that the Sony HVRMRC1 works with 25P footage?

Richard

Does the Sony work with Canon's proprietary 30p and 24p frame rates? BTW I am not trying to promote the Firestore but simply am trying to compare the two devices. The Firestore FSC does work with 30, 24p.

Does the Sony work with Canon's proprietary 30p and 24p frame rates? BTW I am not trying to promote the Firestore but simply am trying to compare the two devices. The Firestore FSC does work with 30, 24p.
Yes it works flawlessly. No problems at all.

Does the Sony work with Canon's proprietary 30p and 24p frame rates?

They're not really proprietary as much as the correct and best way to store progressive frames within MPEG2. Sony's newest cams use the exact same progressive method to store 24P footage now, so they didn't make any special effert per se to support Canon. You could say they caught up :)

Interesting

Is there a Sony deck like the Walkman that will play back Canon now?

Not sure how many products are compatable, but at least one of Sony's recent professional decks plays back 24P, including Canon's. Maybe someone else can remember the model? It was definitely a pro deck though, nothing like a Walkman.