Can anybody recommend a reliable hard drive model/manufacturer currently best for RAID0 setup? I have a WD Raptor 10,000rpm 150GB set as a C: drive. I will also have a separate scratch disk drive. So the only thing left is choosing two identical drives.
I'll be editing in WinXP Pro SP2 using Premiere CS3 (update 3.1.1)

Any help is truly appreciated.

Thanks

I'm trying to plan the same thing for a purchase in the future, and I'm looking into picking up two 1TB hard disks made by Hitachi- Deskstar 7K1000 or something like that. They're listed on Newegg's site, and their prices have dropped significantly over the past few months. With projects in HD looming on the horizon and with the need to keep several projects on the drive to update periodically, the more space the better!

I've used striped barracudas for a while. Didn't have problems with them. i had 2 80 gigs, 2 120 gigs. All 7200 rpms.

I also have striped Barricuda's(3 of the 3.0 SATA 7200.10 drives) for my video drives and striped Barricuda's for my system drive also(2 of the 80GB 3.0 SATA 7200.10 drives)but I will probably purchase a few of the ES.2 drives by seagate with 32MB Cache soon for my video drives and throw the other 3 in my gf's machine. The ones I have had have been churning away greatly over time without any problems whatsoever on either array. I also use CS3 with the updates in HDV and they are wonderful to work with. I can constantly, if scrubbing the timeline quickly, see the hdd led going, but never a failure in well over a year(knock on wood)...

I would highly recommend their from experiences I have had with them. Before these I had two Seagate SATA I drives in a raid and they worked well also(in the gf's machine). My original 200GB IDE that is over 3 years old that I edited(SD w/Matrox X100 card) on is also residing in the gf's machine as her photo drive. The longevity is there as long as you have good cooling in your case. If you don't have that, no drive is going to last too long.

Seagate has a great warranty on their drives also.

Great points about cooling and longevity Damon!
I wonder if 32MB cache actually improves editing as opposed to 16MB.

Thanks

Not sure to be honest, but from the reports on the drives, people are getting some pretty good sustained speeds from these. Not to mention they are built tougher.. Honestly, I love these things compared to the raptors.. I have a raptor and as I am typing this, it's sitting on my desk collecting dust. When I first got the 80 gig drives, I tested them against the raptor that I have and the speed really wasn't that much different in real world applications because of the perpindicular.

So to answer and think about your question, I am really not sure, but I remeber the boost from 8 to 16 made a difference in how the timeline felt to me. Then jumping to the raid, it was another great improvement. Then the perpindicular drives, another improvement. If I didn't need more space, I would leave it the way it is to be honest as pretty much everything is instantaneous overall in the editing app. Matrox makes a difference also without a doubt(RTX2), but even in non accelerated apps, there is a huge difference in performance and accessing information..

I found this drive (http://tinyurl.com/2m3qgz) that I think will be great for RAID0 when paired, totaling 1TB. The thing is that I am encasing the whole PC into a carry-on luggage. So the weight is major concern. So 150GB raptor as a C:drive two RAID0 seagates and one cache and previews drive. I am, however thinking about jumping ship with Premiere Pro CS3 and start using Sony Vegas Pro 8. I've been hearing lately that Premiere CS3 3.1.1. is bloatware even on a fast hardware config. Premiere is very intuitive and I feel at home with it, I have been with it since version 3.
Damon, you mention the Matrox RTX2 card. If I move to Vegas then it makes no sense to have this card right? Do you really get everything realtime using this card when in Premiere? Does it justify the hefty price for it?

Thanks gain!

Renat


Not sure to be honest, but from the reports on the drives, people are getting some pretty good sustained speeds from these. Not to mention they are built tougher.. Honestly, I love these things compared to the raptors.. I have a raptor and as I am typing this, it's sitting on my desk collecting dust. When I first got the 80 gig drives, I tested them against the raptor that I have and the speed really wasn't that much different in real world applications because of the perpindicular.

So to answer and think about your question, I am really not sure, but I remeber the boost from 8 to 16 made a difference in how the timeline felt to me. Then jumping to the raid, it was another great improvement. Then the perpindicular drives, another improvement. If I didn't need more space, I would leave it the way it is to be honest as pretty much everything is instantaneous overall in the editing app. Matrox makes a difference also without a doubt(RTX2), but even in non accelerated apps, there is a huge difference in performance and accessing information..

Hello Renat!

Lets see, I am sure those drives would be good. I am currently at work, so I will try and respond fully and more thouroughly later. But.... I love Seagate drives.. They are whisper quiet, run cool, and for me have been pretty much bulletproof. And that is saying alot with the RTX2, which leads me to your next inquiry...

Ok, lets see, the X2... What can I say? Is it worth the price with Premiere? OMG yeah man! The one thing that people face is the specific hardware that the card does require, but once your past that, comparing it to the software alone is really no comparison... I will put it like this.. Unless your loading your timelines to death with effects, you will not render much, and when you do, the rendering is fast.. Extremely fast. I am running a quad(Q6600) and rendering(once again on the rare occasion that I have to) is ridiculous.. The only things that I find myself having to render are the things like the shine effects and the dynamic linked comps. The card really makes it as easy to work with HDV as DV. Even moreso with simply color correcting, scaling, manipulating the size of either video or photos(and I am talking about RAW pictures) and more. There really are few things that produce the red bar. I commonly work with timelines that are a good 3-4 layers simply because in all honesty I can. It's "NOTHING" to that card! And that is not a lie! You do need a pretty hefty gpu and the matrox cards work best with ATI cards. I would recommend a 3850 or 3870. I have a 1950 and every time I updgrade graphic cards or cpu, the experience with the card keeps getting better and better.

So is it worth the price? Yeah! LOL Especially if your doing things with it day in and day out.. Yeah.. I commonly leave my machine up and running or loop a timeline overnight just to every now and then test the machine and hardware smoothness... You get audio meters on capture, direct manipulation on the program monitor for your 3D dve's(which by the way, you can set as your default for the motion effect in premiere)Seriously, the card is nothing to sneeze at! And then, when you do have to export a file, the achillies heel of it and Premiere at this point is H264 and flash export. Those things take a while(on my system, I am getting 3-4X realtime to export these formats), but the results are pristine. This is the most time consuming thing.. For shooting out an AVI(I-frame), mpg, windows media, it's nothing for the card and most(depending on your effects you use) are definately less than realtime depending on your preset. I usually select the largest frames and bit depth also and on average, my exports from HDV downconverted to these formats range from 1/2 to 3/4 realtime... It ups your workflow that much.

It is easy to kind of get carried away with the effects and get into a rendering situation because the effects are soo easy to workwith and you can load the timeline with customizable effects and then just keep going and not have to wait to view them. I sometimes have to turn off say a layer or so if I don't want to render to get a look at the effect, but then once I get the effect the way I want, I turn the layer back on, render and keep on going.. It's that easy...

So yes, it's worth the fork over of the funds... And if your going to switch to Vegas, nope, the card only works with Premiere...

If you have any more questions, fire away...

I just thought of this.. It's better to see than to tell someone.. These are some of my "10 minute edits". I honestly only spend 10 minutes on the edits and whatever I come up with, that is what I do.. These were all realtime and the photos were raw SLR pics and were moved and the video was scaled to 140% in realtime and all of the effects also. Each little clip is on it's own timeline with no nested sequences. I didn't have to render any of the effects or the resulting clips.. I just edited and exported, no rendering or redlines whatsoever.. Most were 3-4 layers of video and titles with as you will see opacity, color corrections, move and scales, cross dissolves, etc and for the 03/01 a blue matte underneath it all. All realtime and once again, done in 10 minutes.

http://rchelidigest.blip.tv/#714590

Thanks Damon!
The clip looks great. How do you make the edge fade of the Picture-in-picture?

I have just discovered that the RAM I have gotten only works in x64 environment :( Newegg doesn't even mention about x64 exclusivity (http://tinyurl.com/2qvjbu). Corsair doesn't advice to install this Ram on x86 OSes.
That means that if some software will not work in x64 WinXP Pro then I am screwed since I will use this sys on the road (I'm encasing it into a luggage called Xcase). I will most probably be switching to Vegas Pro 8, but install the Adobe Production Premium CS3 just for the unfinished projects.
Here is the list of things I am getting to make this sys.

ASUS P5K Premium/WiFi-AP
Q6600 with mini-ninja heatsink
CORSAIR XMS2 4GB(2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)
XFX nVidia 8600GT card
C: 150 WD Raptor,
D: Two Seagate Barracudas 7200.11 ST3500320AS 500GB 7200 RPM 32MB in RAID0 config
E: Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 as a scratch disk for Premiere Pro CS3
Corsair HX620W PSU
Adesso foldable keyboard
Wacom Cintiq 12WX
All totaling around $2400

Any comments regarding editing using 32bit video-editing in 64bit environment?

Thanks!

I just thought of this.. It's better to see than to tell someone.. These are some of my "10 minute edits". I honestly only spend 10 minutes on the edits and whatever I come up with, that is what I do.. These were all realtime and the photos were raw SLR pics and were moved and the video was scaled to 140% in realtime and all of the effects also. Each little clip is on it's own timeline with no nested sequences. I didn't have to render any of the effects or the resulting clips.. I just edited and exported, no rendering or redlines whatsoever.. Most were 3-4 layers of video and titles with as you will see opacity, color corrections, move and scales, cross dissolves, etc and for the 03/01 a blue matte underneath it all. All realtime and once again, done in 10 minutes.

http://rchelidigest.blip.tv/#714590

Thanks man... And the border and PIP is a Matrox effect and parameter, so yup matrox hardware only for that one..

And for the build, sounds good! I haven't done an Asus board in a while, but they are fun to say the least! Also, that is a bummer about the ram.. That is kind of weird though and I have never run into that. It's very interesting to say the least.

Going to be getting a new system just for editing (use Premiere Pro CS3) and want to have a drive/drives just for video. Thinking of doing a pair of drives (500GB) in a RAID 0 or just a single larger drive (1TB). What would be the advantages of the RAID 0 set up? Also what is the difference between the Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 and Barracuda ES.2? One more questions, how do the Samsung drives compare to the Seagate as they seem to be less money for the same size? Thanks.

Samsung versus Seagate:

Cooler, quieter, faster. I guess those are the only major advantages of the Samsung.

Going to be getting a new system just for editing (use Premiere Pro CS3) and want to have a drive/drives just for video. Thinking of doing a pair of drives (500GB) in a RAID 0 or just a single larger drive (1TB). What would be the advantages of the RAID 0 set up? Also what is the difference between the Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 and Barracuda ES.2? One more questions, how do the Samsung drives compare to the Seagate as they seem to be less money for the same size? Thanks.

I was also curious about noticeable speed differences between going 2X500GB RAID0 as opposed to one solid 1TB.
Anyone has some wisdom to share on this?

Thanks

In a (R)aid0 with 2 disks the transfer rates are almost double that of a single disk, but the drawback of losing all data due to disk failure also double. That is the reason it is better called an Aid0, due to lacking redundancy. Another thing to consider when comparing different disks is the number of platters. The less the better for temperature, noise and speed. That is why the Samsung 1 TB is better IMO than the Seagate, three platters versus four and hence those major advantages.

Here is an example, even though it is not a comparison between the same capacity disks.

A little while back, I picked up three 750GB Samsungs. Of the three, one was bad, and I don't trust the temperatures reported by those Samsung drives either. The reported temps seem a bit low to be credible. I pretty much lean towards Seagate, in general nowadays, for reliable drives. I definitely avoid Maxtors.

There are big differences between hard drive models, not just make. It's a good idea to look at feedback from users at Newegg as a guide. Also, Tom's Hardware has a nice listing of drives and benchmark test results on them:

http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/hard-disks/average-read-transfer-performance,658.html

Many (if not most) cases do not provide for adequate cooling of hard drives, and they can get quite hot (not good at all for reliability). No matter what hard drive you use, if it's consistently running well over 50 degrees Celsius, it's almost assuredly going to have a shorter than average life. I particularly like this case for keeping hard drives cool:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129021&Tpk=Antec%2bNine%2bHundred

That depends on the cooling you use. The case you mention is definitely a good case, but would never be my favorite. No hot-swappable disks being the major drawback. But then I prefer a large number of disks in a Raid5 or Raid6 configuration, such as in a SuperMicro SC 743TQ-865B chassis. The attached pics show some temperatures with a properly cooled system with 20 degrees Celsius as room temperature and the case that I would prefer.

It's a simple question, but I have to ask it (I got no replies elsewhere):

With 32MB cache and the biggest allocation size possible, can 2 500GB Seagate Barracudas in RAID 0 work for 8-bit Uncompressed HD? Also should I go for a hardware PCI (not PCI-E, the Intensity Pro took up the last PCI-Ex1 slot) RAID for uncompressed or a Software RAID off of Vista? I'm using a Intel G33+ICH9 so it doesn't have built in RAID.

None of my other threads with this ever got answered.

Any comments regarding editing using 32bit video-editing in 64bit environment?

I have two boxes that run Vista x64 using Adobe Production Premium CS3 (along with a variety of commercial plugins) and they work just dandy. I have 4gigs of ram in each and as the x64 version will address all 4GB of ram rather than 3.25GB on the 32bit version it has its advantages. Also, After Effects (32bit) reports using 4GB of Ram on startup (which 32bit apps technically should be capped at), it only addresses 2GB on a 32bit OS with 4GB of RAM due to funky addressing limitations.

However, regarding your RAM, there is no artificial limitation that makes it any different, functionality wise (other than only being able to address roughly 3.25GB of the 4GB in a 32bit OS), when running under a 32bit OS than any other RAM. They are just stating that due to many uninformed individuals returning RAM because the computer doesn't see all 4GB in a matched pair set that they purchase when they use it in conjunction with a 32bit OS.

It's a simple question, but I have to ask it (I got no replies elsewhere):

With 32MB cache and the biggest allocation size possible, can 2 500GB Seagate Barracudas in RAID 0 work for 8-bit Uncompressed HD? Also should I go for a hardware PCI (not PCI-E, the Intensity Pro took up the last PCI-Ex1 slot) RAID for uncompressed or a Software RAID off of Vista? I'm using a Intel G33+ICH9 so it doesn't have built in RAID.

None of my other threads with this ever got answered.

I haven't built a system to capture live uncompressed HD yet, so I can't speak from experience. That said, the size of the cache shouldn't make a difference. I believe 2 modern drives in RAID 0 would be cutting it close (at best) for capturing 8 bit, 1920x1080 video in real time. When I do build a system for capturing live uncompressed HD, I'll use 3 drives in RAID 0.

I haven't built a system to capture live uncompressed HD yet, so I can't speak from experience. That said, the size of the cache shouldn't make a difference. I believe 2 modern drives in RAID 0 would be cutting it close (at best) for capturing 8 bit, 1920x1080 video in real time. When I do build a system for capturing live uncompressed HD, I'll use 3 drives in RAID 0.

For uncompressed HD 3 disks is not enough. It requires at least 4 to 5 disks in an Aid0 to handle a continuous data stream of 1.485 Gbps and that quadruples the chance of losing all data over a single disk. Did you ever consider why there are people that use a Raid01?

The Samsung F1 disk is around the fastest there is, but it's sustained transfer rate drops down to around 55 MB/s when getting fuller. 3 of those disks in Aid0 may achieve, depending on the controller and the inherent overhead something like 140-150 MB but for uncompressed you need at least 200 MB/s. Only when they are near empty you may be able to ingest uncompressed, but they fill up rapidly with these data flows. And the F1 has 32 MB buffer.

Or are you talking about 4:2:2 HDV? In that case only 120 MB/s is needed and 3 disks will suffice.

So even cached, this is not enough? Even at the maximum allocation size?

Now, would one drive or two be needed for optimum performance in "Film Scan" mode in Cineform?

Harm is right. 4 drives is probably minimum. (I don't have the numbers memorized yet - I will when I get serious about building a machine to do it.)

32 megs of cache on a hard drive amounts to less than a second of uncompressed HD video (insignificant). 50MB/s sustained write speed is about the most you can rely on with a modern hard drive (regardless of allocation size).

I also don't remember off the top of my head what the maximum throughput is with PCI, but I don't think it is adequate either.

I dream of 3 1920x1080 CCD sensors capturing in AVC (High 4:2:2 Intra profile) at 200Mbps in 1080p60 recording to 96GB SxS cards in the .mxf container.

Are all your recordings so short and the time between them long enough to transfer to HD? 96 GB will suffice for around 8 minutes per card. Better wait for 512 GB cards, they will last around 42 minutes per card, so dream on...

Are all your recordings so short and the time between them long enough to transfer to HD? 96 GB will suffice for around 8 minutes per card. Better wait for 512 GB cards, they will last around 42 minutes per card, so dream on...

There were 4 minute Beta SP tapes back in the day, this dream is a start. And it's 200 Megabits, not Megabytes (200 Megabytes is 4:4:4(:4) 16bit uncompressed). I take that as kind of an insult.

Again, how many do I need for "Film Scan"? (not Film Scan 2 on the PC and 100% on the Mac)

Now, In my current configuration, I can't use 4-5 internal drives, only 2, but after finding this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812119021

I'm thinking about external 4-5 HDD arrays for uncompressed as a far in the future upgrade. (if it even happens at all...)

This Lacie looks promising (but the price is a little steep): http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=30912&vpn=301032U&manufacture=Lacie

I also came upon this: http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=29753&vpn=WD3000GLFS&manufacture=Western%20Digital%20WD

A 10k RPM SATA2 drive that says sustained rates of 120MB/s, would RAID0ing 2 of these be enough? (will be half the price of an external array)

Also (related to film scan rates of 20MB/s), how reliable is cached sustained speeds of 50MB/s at writing at speeds higher than what the HDD was designed to do uncached? (9-12MB/s). (This will make me second guess my decision for a 2 drive RAID for Cineform NEO HD's Film Scan mode)

If I get no response, I'll automatically assume one drive is enough for Cineform Film Scan.

There were 4 minute Beta SP tapes back in the day

As proof: http://www.tapeandmedia.com/detail.asp?product_id=BCT-5MA
It's 5 mins though, I was only off by 1 minute. But it doesn't matter, 96GB @ 200Mbit/s will get around 43mins. (a 32GB P2 gets 32min @ 100Mbit/s DVCPRO HD)

Cache on a hard drive has essentially no impact on sustained read/write speeds.

Cache on a hard drive has essentially no impact on sustained read/write speeds.

Are you saying I should RAID 0 for cineform?

Run a speed test on your hard drives, and see what the minimum write speed is for the entire drive (not the average or maximum). If it's below the highest bitrate you will need to capture live, then use striped RAID arrays.

Here's a nice reference you might find helpful:

http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/3-5-hard-drive-charts/minimum-writetransfer-performance,669.html?p=1783%2C2021%2C2028%2C1827%2C1773%2C1775%2C1774%2C1824%2C1792%2C1790%2C1837%2C 1776%2C1843%2C1832%2C1799%2C1789%2C1806%2C1818%2C1811%2C1829%2C1833%2C1841%2C1795

Mine's listed as 37MB/s. Is that enough headroom for 20MB/s Cineform?

For single track yes, but things get dicey if you have multiple tracks that all come from the same disk. Maybe 2 tracks will barely get by, but three or more tracks is not really enough.

Mine's listed as 37MB/s. Is that enough headroom for 20MB/s Cineform?

That should work, so long as the drive is defragged.

It's a dedicated drive that only is used during capture and editing, it should work then. Once this one's full, I'll get another 32MB cache one with a fast response time (The ST3500320AS) and I'll re-install the current dedicated drive into it's original external casing (yes, I took a Lacie out of it's case, it's basically a ST3500830AS in a case linked through USB 2.0).

sriped barracude ES series drives.....you pay more for them but they are made to work in an enterprise environment with 24/7 reliability

Question about a noise coming from my PC. It is a brand new HP and I installed two new Seagate 500GB drives in RAID0. When the PC starts up and sometimes during usage, there is a high pitch whistle coming from it. I am almost sure it is the drive/s as it started right after I put them in. Is this normal or should I return the drives? Thanks.

Drives are out and no noise. Question, for just editing HDV is a RAID really needed and would the extra performance even be noticed?

Definitely, unless your editing is single track only.