It is another weekend, and time to try out a new version of CineForm's tools.

Here are some of the key changes in verion 3.2.2:

Added: Sony XDCAM-EX *.mp4 support to HDLink. This will support all the new cameras shooting modes. i.e. support for all the 1920x1080 35mbs, and all the audio modes.
Added: Count offset for HDLink split scene naming
Added: Improved cross-platform decoder threading.
Added: global controls over RAW metadata.
Fixed: Support on quad core systems for some old clips was broken.
Changed: "Force YUV" now defaults to on as too many cards couldn't support RGB overlays.


Only Prospect HD and NEO HD for now, as these where to first two off the build system. Also these level products are most suitable for testing for EX users.

Links:
Prospect HD http://www.cineform.com/downloads/ProspectHDv322b147-071214.zip
NEO HD http://www.cineform.com/downloads/NEOHDv322b147-071214.zip

Update--more Links:
Prospect 2K: http://www.cineform.com/downloads/Prospect2Kv322b147-071214.zip
Prospect 4K: http://www.cineform.com/downloads/Prospect4Kv322b147-071214.zip
NEO 2K: http://www.cineform.com/downloads/NEO2Kv322b147-071214.zip
NEO 4K: http://www.cineform.com/downloads/NEO4Kv322b147-071214.zip
Aspect HD: http://www.cineform.com/downloads/AspectHDv522b100-071214.zip
NEO HDV: http://www.cineform.com/downloads/NEOHDVv322b147-071214.zip

P.S. If other products are completed this weekend, I will try and post them.

Thank you David !

Can NEO HD be used within Sony Vegas 8 ( using Sony EX1 1920x1080 35mb files), or is NEO HDV only supported?

At 9pm PST I uploaded these again, if you got them earlier, please download again as the first upload was missing a component.

Thank you David !

Can NEO HD be used within Sony Vegas 8 ( using Sony EX1 1920x1080 35mb files), or is NEO HDV only supported?

Yes Steven - no problem.

Hi David,

Forgive me if my question is inappropriate for this forum or has been answered previously (I did a search but came up empty handed and, well, 41 pages of posts can be a bit daunting). The EX1 represents my first foray into HD, so consider me a novice in this regard (although I've been doing SD for over 25 years). My system is a fairly recent HP xw8400 running Adobe CS3.

After pouring over your website many times, I still don't grasp a real-world differentiation between Prospect HD and Neo HD. Is Neo HD generally real-time with only one stream? And "CineForm AVI/MOV render output" and "32-bit floating-point processing" with Prospect HD...as opposed to what with Neo HD? I could go on, but I think you get the idea :). Yes, I see the comparison checklist on your website, but what does it all mean to me as an editor?

Thanks for your help. I'm looking forward to working with 21st century technology!

Bill

What is the best workflow now to capture from EX1 to Prospect HD live (before camera's mpeg compression)?

Hi David,

I still don't grasp a real-world differentiation between Prospect HD and Neo HD.
Bill

Bill, rarely are Q's inappropriate. If we suffer from one characteristic on our site it is too much information. For those new to what we do it is sometimes hard to find simple answers. We have to work on that.

The answer to your basic question is simple. Neo HD and Prospect HD are identical with one difference. Prospect HD includes the real-time video engine for Premiere Pro. If Premiere Pro is part of your workflow (Windows) then you want Prospect HD. For all other Windows apps (Vegas, AE (without PPro), Combustion, etc) you want Neo HD. Hopefully that tidbit is helpful....

Wow, that was simple. That one significant little tidbit somehow escaped me. Thanks!

Bill

More beta testing please.

Here are the beta versions for more of our products

Prospect 2K: http://www.cineform.com/downloads/Prospect2Kv322b147-071214.zip
Prospect 4K: http://www.cineform.com/downloads/Prospect4Kv322b147-071214.zip
NEO 2K: http://www.cineform.com/downloads/NEO2Kv322b147-071214.zip
NEO 4K: http://www.cineform.com/downloads/NEO4Kv322b147-071214.zip
Aspect HD: http://www.cineform.com/downloads/AspectHDv522b100-071214.zip

NEO HDV is still building.

NEO HDV 3.2.2. is up.

NEO HDV: http://www.cineform.com/downloads/NEOHDVv322b147-071214.zip

No Prospect HD beta? (((((( sorryyyyyyyyyy...didn't see the links below....))))))

Thought I'd post my feedback about how Prospect HD is handling the footage.

Pros:
1. The conversion from mp4 to avi is lightning fast - extremely impressive.
2. HD Link is a fantastic little program - way, way better than the software provided with the EX1.

Cons:
1. The clip thumbnail (which is generally the first frame of footage) looks extremely weird. I've attached a thumbnail of what it looks like because it's too hard to explain.
2. This weird effect also appears in the preview window of the timeline. Scrubbing and even playing the footage in CS3 is extremely slow and delayed, with interruptions of the footage appearing as per the attached screenshot when the cursor isn't moving.
3. Using the footage in Magic Bullet is no good because the screenshot it takes to manipulate in the standalone application is the strange reversed weird version as per the screenshot.
4. Rendering out the effect from Magic Bullet results in the entire footage being rendered out weirdly and looking like this screenshot.

INFO: I've tested this on my desktop with CS3 in XP Pro 32bit and on my sister's laptop with Vista Home Premium 32bit and got the same results.

I can confirm that Magic Bullet is not doing this to any footage other than the Cineform footage.

Hope this helps,

-- John.

David,
There's still conficting info regarding whether the Sony PMW-EX1 is utilizing 10 bit via SDI, or it may be 8 bit in the 10 bit word. I believe you've stated it was 8 bit.

The latest info states it's using the full 10 bit word.
Having said that, using Sony Vegas 8 with NEO HD, will this combo be able to make use of the 10-bit I/O?
If it does, expect an immediate update from my NEO HDV to NEO HD.

There's still conficting info regarding whether the Sony PMW-EX1 is utilizing 10 bit via SDI, or it may be 8 bit in the 10 bit word. I believe you've stated it was 8 bit.

The latest info states it's using the full 10 bit word.
Having said that, using Sony Vegas 8 with NEO HD, will this combo be able to make use of the 10-bit I/O?

IF the EX1 was outputing true 10bit via SDI, and you captured LIVE via SDI through BMD or AJA, THEN you should have true 10bit color. I doubt the EX1 has true ten bit color at all, but it is possible, and would be a very nice feature, if someone could confirm that.

If anyone is in San Diego with an EX, it will only take 5 minutes to confirm. For those more remote, all we need an AJA or Blackmagic user to capture a live short 'v210' sequence, i.e. 10-bit YUV clip. If the bottom two bits of each component are zeros (or unchanging), it is 8-bit. Send me a file, I only need a few frames.

Good to see that the MP4 conversion for the EX1 is working. Was HDLink ever able to convert the MXF conversions from Sony's utility? I only get a green frame when attempting that, and the resolution is reset to 1440.

Both errors have been fixed and a new version of Prospect HD and NEO HD should be completed within an hour. I'll post new links when they are ready.

Prospect HD and NEO HD build are up with fixes for 1920 MXFs files and weird thumbnail and exports for progressively encoded frames.

Prospect HD: http://www.cineform.com/downloads/ProspectHDv322b148-071217.zip
NEO HD: http://www.cineform.com/downloads/NEOHDv322b148-071217.zip

Prospect HD and NEO HD build are up with fixes for 1920 MXFs files and weird thumbnail and exports for progressively encoded frames.

Prospect HD: http://www.cineform.com/downloads/ProspectHDv322b148-071217.zip
NEO HD: http://www.cineform.com/downloads/NEOHDv322b148-071217.zip

I have just updated and the weird thumbnail thingy is gone.

Now I'm noticing a distinct difference in brightness in my preview between what it looks like when paused and when I press play.

It's as if the footage brightens considerably as soon as I press play, then, after pressing stop, it reverts to its original colour (playback quality settings are always set to high, though I tested it on Draft as well and the issue still occurs). There is also an approximately one second pause between when I press play and when the timeline starts to play.

Also, the more I play with Prospect, the more I wish I'd had this earlier! I guess I now know what all the fuss is about!

Level shifts are an NVidia issue. Some cards will work in RGB mode and don't habe the level shift. Try this by turing off the "Force YUV" option in playback options.

Level shifts are an NVidia issue. Some cards will work in RGB mode and don't habe the level shift. Try this by turing off the "Force YUV" option in playback options.

Tried this and got a jarbled mess of lines and colours instead, so I definitely need to have "Force YUV" enabled.

You say it's an NVidia issue? Does that mean that if I got ATI cards that it wouldn't happen?

Tried this and got a jarbled mess of lines and colours instead, so I definitely need to have "Force YUV" enabled.

You say it's an NVidia issue? Does that mean that if I got ATI cards that it wouldn't happen?

It's doing exactly the same thing with our Matrox Parhelia APVe, so it's not just NVidia...

Using RGB for output does fix the level shift on some NVidia cards, but unfortunately some NVidia card don't support RGB overlays either -- there is a theme that NVidia has not got video overlay working correctly, even pulled support totally from the 8800 series.

The Matrox Parahelia also worked best in YUV, so no loss there.

Is it possible to export back the EX1 codec?

Best,
Christopher

You can export to HDV, but not to the the MP4-wrapped MPEG2 which is the EX format. I can't think of any good reasons to go back to that format anyway.

You can export to HDV, but not to the the MP4-wrapped MPEG2 which is the EX format. I can't think of any good reasons to go back to that format anyway.

Someone asked on an Adobe forum so I thought I would ask here. I don't think they are really serious about getting an EX1, so it's not important, I was just curious.

Best,
Christopher

IF the EX1 was outputing true 10bit via SDI, and you captured LIVE via SDI through BMD or AJA, THEN you should have true 10bit color. I doubt the EX1 has true ten bit color at all, but it is possible, and would be a very nice feature, if someone could confirm that.

No answer on this yet? Sure would be nice to know.

That would definely be a very BIG point in the EX1's favor if it did! If not, it just seems like a "nicer lense and control V1"......for more twice as much $$.

Might get more attention if it did.

Does Aspect HD reduce the resolution of the EX1 codec? Do you need Prospect HD to get the full resolution of the EX1 codec?

Best,
Christopher

Aspect HD is a 1440x1080 HDV product. Sony EX1 is not an HDV product at 1920x1080, so yes Prospect HD is more suitable. Also Prospect HD will support HDSDI capture directly from the EX1 if you add an AJA Xena card, great for 4:2:2 greenscreen work. However you can use Aspect HD, but it will downsample to fit the 1440 license.

Hi,

My EX1 just arrived today and I'm giving my Prospect HD Link 3.2.2 (just downloaded it) a go at the native .mp4 files I copied over.

When I bring the converted AVI into After Effects, it shows up as 960 x 540 (PAR 1.0) while the native .mp4 shows up as 1920 x 1080 (PAR 1.0)

In the HD Link prefs, I've selected:

Automatic (capture options)
AVI
Film Scan
Automatic (frame format)
Rate (no change)
Resize Video (none)

It also down-sized my 720 footage too.

What's really odd is that I tried specifying Resize to 1920 x 1080 (just to see) and it still converted it to 960 x 540.

Any ideas?

Wow. Samples please (mp4 and AVI.)

I'll add links to the clips on my support ticket.

Hi David,
Need your urgent help.
HDlink would not convert my EX1 files.

Attached is a screen shot of the log file.

Software used-Prospect HD, latest version.

Thanks!

Johnnie

Only need to log window, you scaled the whole screen to the point I can't read the log window. To capture just log, select the window, and press ALT+PrintScreen, then paste the image in IrfanView or any other imaging tool.

Likely you don;t have something install. Recapture the log window and send it to support -- trouble tickets go to www.cineform.com/support

Thank you David.

All was send to support.
BTW, it will be nice to be able to install HDlink as a separate program. Sometimes, a second computer just for converting files, will not have the Premiere installed.

I was about to update my NEO HDV (which I haven't even used yet) to NEO HD to use with Vegas 8 with my new EX1 capturing 1920x1080P, and over on the Vegas forum I'm hearing that NEO is not needed, or is of only limited use, for the EX1 as long as the computer is current.

Can someone explain why I am hearing this or counter if you don't agree.

Mike

It depends on if you're talking Neo HDV or Neo HD. Please doublecheck the specs (as I use Aspect, not Neo) but I believe Neo HD is 10 bit color as opposed to 8 bit, which would help with multigenerational workflows and heavy correction or compositing work. It's also great for keeping a visually lossless master copy. Also, the framerate and resize tools in HDLink are very handy!

Carl

Carl: Neo HDV is 8 bit and Neo HD is 10 bit but that is not the point. The point is with the EX1 (.mfx file codec) with a good processor some say you don't need Cineform at all because the codec is so much more efficient than HDV.

I agree with Carl. Even if one doesn't need Neo HD to load EX1 mxf files on the Vegas timeline, Neo HD makes an excellent intermediate or archival format.

Bill: What is the relative size of the Cineform files for archival? I can see the advantage there and perhaps monitoring playback has a better frame rate?

Cineform files will definitely not be smaller, but with the proper disk speed, you should be able to play back many more layers or streams at once.

David...

I hope this question isn't too dumb for me to see the answer.
I've converted Sony EX1 files(1080p HQ) to .mxf with Sony's clip browser software. Then I ran the .mxf file thru NeoHD to get an Intermediate. If I load the .mxf and the CF Intermediate in Vegas, the .mxf shows as "progressive", and, the Intermediate shows as 1080i, even tho' I selected "Progressive" on the HDLINK Preferences page.

Am I missing something obvious?

I believe Vegas says all VfW sources are interlaced, even when they are progressive. I think you have ignore it.

ah....thanx

I've only just noticed that converting EX1 MP4s to Cineform AVIs in HD Link is producing clips that are about 3 frames shorter than the original MP4s.

Is this happening to anyone else?

I've attached a screenshot from within CS3 to show the difference between each of the MP4s and their equivalent AVIs.

In every case, the duration is less for the AVIs than for the MP4s.

I am wondering:
a) Why?
b) How? As in, is it simply removing three frames from the beginning or end or are they missing from the middle somewhere or are some of them blended?

I have also noticed that in the tab that lists all this information, the Media End and Media Duration figure should be identical, since all the timecodes start at 0:00:00, but they are also different from each other in every case, whether it's AVI or MP4. How can that be?

We transcode all the frames that are decoded from the MPEG Decoder we use. If any frames aren't converted they would on the end, possibly from an incomplete GOP. Media End and Media Duration are not suppose to be the same as Media End is an inclusive frame (not an out time in the EDL sense: Duration = End - Start + 1.) It is Premiere that reports this, not CineForm as personal refer an exclusive out time.

Mr. Newman,

I'm looking to set up a HD workflow that includes live HD SDI capture for a dance show.

I have two Premiere CS3 NLE PC's, one with a scsi raid0 and one with a sata raid0 array. I am thinking of using either the Canon H1 or the Sony EX1 cameras.

From your posts,you indicate that a camera SDI out to AJA Xena SDI card with Prospect HD using HDLink would be a good set up for realtime or live HD capture as well as editing with Premiere CS3.

My question is, which of the Xena HD SDI cards would be most appropriate for a system that is capturing HD SDI from either the H1 or EX1 into a PC with Premiere CS3?

All of the Xena cards (PCIe or PCI) appear to work with Premiere CS3 except the HS card which appears to support only Premiere Pro 2.0. I'm guessing from research that either the 2K or LH cards will do and most probably the 2K card if i don't want or need to support any legacy analog devices.

BTW, from the threads i have read, you are most generous in jumping in to help out those in need.

regards,

We use the LH and LHe cards successfully with Cineform. I don't believe the 2K/2Ke is fully supported.

Mike is correct. Choose either the LH or LHe card. We've intended to support the 2K card for a while but it hasn't made it to the top of the list yet.