Thought you all might like to know what I think of the new kid on the block...

I ordered it on friday at midnight U.K. time online from B&H Photo Video New York and it arrived via UPS at noon on the Monday here in Bristol U.K. Well that in it's self was pretty amazing!

So how does it stand up...

Well I bought the Zoom H2 when it came out and was somewhat dissapointed by it's sound with the built in mic's and the line in. The former had a nasely quality, a bit like Mettle Mickey and the line in was very poor with distortion underlying everything. Verdict was my old portable mini disc was sonically far superior.

To cut to the chase... the Sony is very good.
The self noise with the built in mic's is very low for a hand held unit.
The mic's themselves sound good.
The line in is excellent, as is the line out.
The digital in (optical) is a breeze.
The headphone amp is loud and clean. As is line out.
The analogue circuits are great and noise free.
Good limiter.
Good meters.
Useful speed control feature (helpful for checking things back in a hurry).
The handling noise is good but still there ( of course, never avoid that completely)
Windjamer does a good job.
Menus are clear and easy to navigate.
Backlight is great and switchable.
Buttons are well laid out like a real deck.
Battery life is very good.
Feels good in hand.
Good features all round.

Finally a product which does the job properly and for $460 + $45(windjammer) or for me £345 all in, the best in class.

Don't bother with anything else, there really is no comparison with the Zoom. If you can spend a bit more then do.

The only things I would say the Zoo h2 has going for it is the side address mic's.
I would love to see this unit with an M-S pair option instead of X-Y too.
I would change those but nothing else in this design.

The project manager and team who created this should be congratulated. It is a product that harks back to Sony's glory days.

I have recorded line in from various T.V. situations, bootlegged applause and through the desk. Drum kit (amazing for a unit like this) guitar, various voices close up and away. Nature, ambiance.

Can't say yet if the mic's are as quiet as an MKH 50/30 pair yet but they are quiet. Would be pretty surprised if they where that quiet though.

Basically I really like the way it sounds and works. The optional windammer is a must and a great idea.
The tripod is not required as a regular camera mini tripod from the pound shop will do.

My U.K. freinds should buy online from USA as it saved me £200. I paid £63 import tax and the total was £345 inc.

To finish off I just say that I have been working with 3 old pro's all week and they all intend to buy one. One in china when he does the Olympics and the other 2 via B&H.

Cheers

Thanks Jimmy. Great review mate!

I'm currently using Zoom H2 and the XLR/phantom power capable Fostex FR2-LE - both are completely different animals but both have pros and cons at their specific price points, in my opinion.....(H2 is about 142 quid and FR2 is about 380 at the moment in UK.) I can certainly believe that the Zoom is not worth considering if you have the cash for one of these new Sony's but it's still devoid of XLR inputs, which is where the Fostex comes in handy for us.

I suppose it's worth pointing out also that the mics are moveable on the Sony PCM D50 (90 or 120 degrees) and that an, albeit very expensive, XLR adapter box is available for it. You can also get a remote for it to circumvent any handling noise when using it's on board mics. Certainly looks/sounds like it's a quality product and the unusual limiter feature it has looks a real winner. Have fun with it!

More info and pics in this review for anyone wanting it.

http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2008/01/10/sony-pcm-d50-recorder-review.html

Also, a previous forum discussion on it in this link.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=110475

I was reading the O'Reilly review and became curious about the sync recording function. Would this function work while shooting video or does it record as soon as a signal is detected?

I ordered it on friday at midnight U.K. time online from B&H Photo Video New York and it arrived via UPS at noon on the Monday here in Bristol U.K. Well that in it's self was pretty amazing!

Thank you. We like to do amazing when we're able.

Ok so the windjammer is ok but outdoors in wind it aint a proper windshield. I had to put the whole thing in a stereo rycote kit to get away with the wind the other day.

The windjammer is good but don't think it will make outdoor recording possible in high or medium wind. It is better than foam but not as good as I hoped. I tried two little rycote furies,(lav covers), on the mics and that was a lot worse than the windjammer though.

Still liking it all the same.

Something easy to try (and cheap like me!). Stretch a Radio Shack (black or grey) foam mic cover over your D50...then wig it. I bought light weight fake fur (get long-haired with stretchable on 2 axis fabric) 'Transparency' characteristics are quite par with the high price hairpieces... It's all fake fur.

(info source: a nature recordists group ...professionals who strive for accurate low level sound capture ...great place to learn audio)

...course, foam alone works in light breeze. Looks like an English Bobbie (policeman) though

EXAMPLE: Watch this 'Green Jay' video ...the 'sonogram' part is the D50 in action ...wearing it's garments in ALOT of wind! http://www.viddler.com/explore/texdig/videos/2/

I ordered a D-50. I will pick it up tomorrow. I am also waiting on a Microtrack II I have on order.

The Sony PCM D50 doesn't look like it has as many recording options as the Microtrack II. We do a lot of transcript recordings these days directly to MP-3 and often give the Media directly to the producers. We have been using Compact Flash and SD cards for this purpose
Sony is selling an XLR adapter for the unit but it seems priced as high as the base unit to go with it.
Sony XLR-1 XLR Mic Adapter for PCM-D1 and PCM-D50

The XLR plugs add bulk in themselves, so you can expect adaptors for any small recorder. The Sony's adaptor is, of course, way overpriced because that's their style of targetting a pro level market. It's just a passive device that supplies 48v phantom.

I use Beachteks dual phantom (screws onto bottom of D50 perfectly, though slightly wider)... it costs 250 bucks ...and there are cheaper brands. 'Passive' means no pre-amp (thus no added noise)...just isolation and voltage. Sony's phantom box just looks prettier with the recorder though (if you have 500 bucks for 'Sony Style'). Using the Seinheisser ME 66 (phantom powered) adds 10 db self noise. That is very low for a mic. If you use it's self powered battery phantom, it jumps to 15 db noise. Of course, these levels hardly affect typical video, but it's nice have for your quieter recordings like nature, low level ambience, and building your sound f/x library.

The built in mics aren't the quietest, but the recording is 'brighter' than other brands. Reduce that brightness later (parametric equalizer) and you've got a hard to beat recording. Though it is targeted for the professional with wav only, I wish there were some handy compressed formats from this unit ... but you can always downgrade a recording format. You can regret recording lesser formats when you want them to shine later, you know.

A smaller/cheaper unit that is comparable quality? Pros are field testing the new Olympus LS-10 at this time. Olympus will not supply meaningful noise specs (fishy) ...keep fingers crossed!

(note: The D50 has 10dB self noise noise (mic in) ...considered very good... only a few exotic mics are quieter than that!)

I bought the PCM-D50 and received it today and must say that i am really impressed with its sound and will use this device a lot in the future. I am really glad that i found this thread before i bought a Zoom H4.

Thanks Jimmy for starting this thread and all others that have given valuable information to me and others.

Great recorder! I don't know if I would call it "bright". I think it records a clean signal that has less coloration than the others in its class. Other recorders sound muddy by comparison. it's harder to create detail in muddy audio than to round out crisp, clean audio.

I've been thinking of picking up an H2 for my kids to use for recording their choir rehearsals, which is recommended by the director. Being a family of musicians, a handy recorder would be great. However, I'm not sure I can do that after using the D50. I had high hopes for the MicroTrack II but the new batch has been back ordered for 3+ months.

This is very much a newbie question, I'm afraid...

My PCM-D50 came in yesterday and I'm wondering if I can use it with external mics without a Beachtek or Sony's ungodly expensive adpater....

I have the EV RE50N/D-B mic that I use with my Sennheiser wireless kit. Just a cord or...?

What are the guidelines in choosing mics for this unit?

--Darin

Sad sad sad, this unit can not be used with balanced mics at all I mean that it will pick up all the usual interferences caused my unbalanced mic cables, damn how on earth can one use this in environments with cellular phones or the like. Every unwanted incoming GSM/radio signal among the audience will be recorded. Even if one buys that expensive XLR adapter it will be interfered by radio signal because of the unbalanced 3,5mm cable that is between the box and recorder.

Is there anything that comes close to this PCM D50 that can use real mics and balanced cables?

Thanks,
T

Try a Fostex FR-2LE. Bigger, not as nice looking but plug in any XLR mic in you want and away you go.

What are the guidelines in choosing mics for this unit?

The mic's are built in. If you want external mic's then you also want an external mixer. That is the design.

The unit is not meant for using with external mic's, it is just an option. Not a serious one though. The unit's strength is as a hand held/tripod mounted mic/recorder.

Sad sad sad, this unit can not be used with balanced mics at all I mean that it will pick up all the usual interferences caused my unbalanced mic cables, damn how on earth can one ...
T

As above - If the un-balanced in's are a problem then get a dedicated recorder unit such as FR2LE etc.

But don't over re-act. Irrational fear of un-balanced cables is not something I would believe in. As long as the outputs which feed it are buffered from any balanced feed going elsewhere then where is the problem?

OT but it has been said that FR2 LE has noisy low power preamps that are worse than unbalanced lines in my mind.

T

The Fostex FR-2LE preamps are extreemly low noise!!!! They are ALSO lower in amplification than many would like (maybe 10-20dB lower than I, personally, would like). However, boosting in post (if required, it often is n't in my case) still results is superb audio with a very, very low noise floor. It is plain incorrect to say they are noisy. They are not. They are super clean. Now the headphone monitoring out is a bit noisy- BUT not the recordings themselves.

Sorry to be pedantic...... but DVinfo is a valuable place for for useful facts and I'm just trying to keep it that way. Incorrect statements like yours above should be challenged as they just mislead.

This is my opinion, audio experts please chime in to support or refute it if required.

I've heard mixed reviews of the FR2LE and wonder what the unit really is like.

Agreed this is a good place for the debate.

Agreed, lets get real users opinions.

However, I would *suggest* that they are put into the thread already going on the FR-2LE (link below with some members inputs already), not this one..... as this one is supposed to be about the Sony PCM-D50!

That way it will be easier for everyone to get the information they want on either unit as it will all be grouped appropriately and together, not spread out across multiple threads (there are already some other posts about the FR-2LE in other threads on Digital Audio Recorders.)

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=109502&highlight=Fostex+FR-2LE

I'd be interested in hearing from owners w/ DIY solutions to handling noise and wind muffs.

Also, is there any reason to not leave the plug-in power set to "on"? Would there be a battery drain if no mic is plugged in?

Below

http://reviews.cnet.com/voice-recorders/sony-pcm-d50/4505-11314_7-32886466.html?tag=bubbl_3

If you want to use an XLR mic with this recorder, try this cable:

http://www.markertek.com/SearchProduct.asp?item=XLF%2DH8%2D10&off=8&sort=prod&skuonly=0&search=XLR+3%2E5mm+cable&pagesize=20

This cable has built in low-to-high impedance matching so it doesn't add noise to the signal like most adapter cables do. If you need phantom power get an extra box like the Denecke. I have tried this system with my D50; it is relatively compact, much cheaper than the Sony XLR adapter and works well. BTW, I would turn plug-in power off unless you have a mic that actually needs it. The cable is supposed to block it, but I think plug-in power has the potential to add noise to your signal in some circumstances.

For phantom power you could use a portable preamp instead, together with the same cable and send the signal to the line-in jack. The mic jack, however, appears sturdier because of the metal ring reinforcing it. The line-in is just plastic. I've tried this out with a Sound Devices preamp and that works well, but is twice the size and weight of the Denecke phantom supply.

The built in mics do sound pretty good to my ears and the Sony preamp is quiet, but IMO not as rich sounding as the Sound Devices preamps. Hope that helps.

Best,
Peter
www.parkfilms.com

Forgive the slightly OT question - I'm using a Zoom H4 and it gets me by, but looking for a more professional solution. The Sony looks to fit the bill, but would prefer to go for full XLR inputs and longer term, possibly timecode

The Fostex FR2 LE has been mentioned, but has anyone done a side by side comparison of of it with its bulky big brother, the FR2?

I have searched the other linked thread and the Fostex forum to no avail, so if anyone has real world experience?

Thanks,

Nick.

For those who have used the D-50: given that the D-50 will automatically divide a recording into a new file when it reaches a 2 GB size, is there a lag when it switches over? My greatest fear is that I'll be recording a concert, and I get an audio gap when the recorder is creating a new file. I heard from an H2 owner that he gets a 15-18 second lag when the H2 is doing this.

Has anyone found a good case to protect the PCM-D50? The one made by Sony isn't available here in the U.S. I would just like something I can keep the recorder in when I throw it in my bag so it won't get all scratched up.

I got my Sony a few weeks back and really like it. Re handling noise, etc, I got the remote. I also had someone machine a little aluminum plug with a body the same diameter as my regular mics and a little 1/4-20 stub sticking out one end so I can screw the plug into the D50 and then mount it in one of my regular shock mounts. Works great and makes it really a snap to mount it to a mic stand.

Just for fun I set the Sony up next to my Schoeps CMC641 and recorded a bit of narrative. The Schoeps and Sony were within about 3 inches of each other, and maybe 9 to 12 inches from my face. The Schoeps was hooked up to a SD302/702.

Overall conclusion - one heck of a price performer. A short piece of each file is linked below. Tell me which is which.

www.j-e-andrada.com/A-Short.mp3
www.j-e-andrada.com/C-Short.mp3

Jim, I'd guess the C-short is the D50. The highs sound a little more sharp and brittle than A, and I think I hear more of a stereo image. I'm just listening on laptop speakers though! Very impressed by the side-by-side test; haven't done that with mine yet.

I own both, and am also very happy with the D50. It feels like having a great point-and-shoot camera. I've been using the D50 for recording foley effects lately and having a lot of fun - it's so small and convenient.

Abe,

You got it! Actually, I thought most people on this forum would get it, but a lot of "normal" people I've run this by can't really tell the difference.

The highs are definitely more - well maybe brittle is the best word I've heard to describe it. Also, more room effect which I'd sort of expect with the X-Y arrangement. If I move it back further from my mouth I get even more room and less me, which doesn't happen with the Schoeps.

Sort of an unfair comparison of course, but it turned out to be more interesting than I thought before doing it.

Naturally I'll use the Schoeps when it counts, but I think I wouldn't feel embarrassed by the Sony either, and the convenience is worth a lot.

I was wearing a lav at the same time, so there's a case "B" as well, but it would be too easy to pick it out.

I have a friend who's a classical guitarist and sometime this Summer I'm supposed to make a demo CD for her. I think I'll do the same kind of side-by-side comparison with the Sony when I do.

James,

I also had the ZOOM (H4) and after being unhappy with the sound quality and contols I ended upgrading to the Sony D-50. First off, I have to say that it is a pretty major upgrade in contols, sound quality and build. To answer your question you cannot notice the break at all. I believe the built in buffer allows for this change over to a new file without any lag.

Mark,

I just got a samll camera/camcorder bag and put it in there when I'm transporting it. I got a case logic that's just big enough for the recorder, adapter, wind screen, and a spare set of batteries. Works great and is small enough to fit into my equipment box.

Jim, let us know (or at least me) when you record the classical guitarist! I love that sound . .

Abe,

Will do! We were supposed to do it a month or so ago, but this is Tucson in the summer - nothing much seems to happen on schedule. Even the Monsoon got confused and showed up a month early! At least it was early instead of late.

Has anyone come across a polar pattern for the d50? I find myself recording some marching band performances at the high school as well as some band concerts and I'm wondering where I would have to place the d50 if I was to purchase one.

In the past I've just been using a Rode Videomic which is NOT the best solution for recording music, but it's all I have at the moment and it does work great in the stands for rejecting some of the noise from parents talking in the stands.

Glenn,

I mostly record our British style brass band. I've had good results with an M/S setup recording from just behind and above the conductor. We have a reading session scheduled for Friday night and I'm willing to try the Sony in the same position and see how it sounds.

We don't usually get to perform in ideal venues and as you noted, the audiences are usually not just sitting quietly so I think recording from back in the audience would be a bit iffy at best.

Abe,

You got it! Actually, I thought most people on this forum would get it, but a lot of "normal" people I've run this by can't really tell the difference.

Great comparison Jim thanks. The definitive side by side, all comparisons and shoot outs should be made like that.....great.

In that C-NEt D-50 review they say an 'adjustable' limiter, what's that about?

Cheers.

The limiter has three selectable release times, 150ms, 1 sec and 1 minute.

Honestly speaking, I've never fooled with the release time. Because of the way this one works I haven't seen any need to mess with it.

Thanks. Set at 150 I guess, 1 minute is rare on a small rig.

The default setting seems to be 150 ms and I haven't seen the need to change it - so far:<}

That'd be hard on location.

O/T we're rebuilding a Convair 340 at your PIMA air museum. We're going to fly it back to OZ. Drop by and say hello.

e-mail me through the forum and let me know your contact info and I'll set up a time to stop by.

How long will you be enjoying our rather cool wet Summer (cool compared to the last couple of years at least)

Ok I'll mail you.