Did anybody hear about the licensing fees that indies will have to pay to author and distrubute Blu-Ray HD discs?

This is from a Larry Jordan report I read today in the e-newsletter, Digital Production Buzz (New Bay Media):

"In a recent conversation with Bruce Nazarian, president of the DVD Association, during The BuZZ podcast, we were discussing the sudden shift toward Blu-Ray HD DVDs. While Blu-Ray may be good for Hollywood, it won't be good for small independent producers. This is due to all the hidden fees tacked on to replicating a Blu-Ray DVD.

For example, producers of industrial and non-broadcast content are required to pay a $2,500 licensing fee to author and distribute Blu-Ray.

Then, each producer is required to pay a $3,000 one-time AACS license fee, plus a per-title fee for EACH replicated Blu-Ray disc. Currently, Sony DADC is quoting that fee at $1,585 per title (per complete Blu-ray disc project).

Then there's the per disc replication cost, which varies by quantity, and finally, there's a $0.04 per disc fee for AACS and $0.01 per disc if you want SONY DADC to administer the payments to AACS on your behalf.

As Bruce indicates, we may be standardizing on Blu-Ray, but the prices won't be cheap."

What does the DVI Community think about this news?

Collis Davis

AACS is used on both BD and HD DVD. The license fees are the same in either case.

http://www.aacsla.com/support/

That's not to say that there aren't additional charges specific to BD or HD DVD duplication. If there are links on where to get the contract information, that would be helpful.

Readers can go here to listen to the Podcast referenced above, Thursday, Feb 21st around 6:20 pm Pacific time. Check out this URL:

http://www.digitalproductionbuzz.com/LiveThisWeek/

What is the enforcement mechanism regarding payment of the above license fees?

I, for one, will not be able to afford these fees. It would seem to me that when folks learn about these fees, there is likely to be a revolt, and a move to circumvent them.

Collis

I did pursue the link that Jon Fairhurst posted (thank you!) and learned that this AACS system is essentially a content protection scheme for the new optical disc technologies. So, really, this is an optional thing. My concern evolved out of thinking that this would be imposed on everyone. No.

As I understand it, only those producers who wish to avail of this protection scheme (and who can afford it) will opt for this. Correct me if I am wrong about this. Even within the DVD world, I've always thought it wasn't worth it to pay for these protections as Asian bootleggers can crack just about any copy protection scheme anyway!

Collis

Is this therefore not similar to macrovision where there is a licence fee payable? I can't imagine they're going to insist on a licence fee for every blu-ray disc that is burned... I guess set-top boxes will have burnable BD discs soon so will they have to pay a licence fee?

...I guess set-top boxes will have burnable BD discs soon so will they have to pay a licence fee?

I doubt it, but I am in no position to make this kind of assessment.

The License fee is built into the retail price of blank writeable discs, as it is already with blank CDs and DVDs.

My view on all this?

It's all media scaremongering/misinformation.

There's not gonna be any BIG change to the way things work. Blu-ray is going to be a little more expensive, because it's newer and bigger than the previous. But dire warnings of 1,000,000,000,000% price increases for people who want to burn their own are nonsense. (IMHO)

Sounds like Chris has the last word on this issue.

Thanks!

Collis

Sounds like Chris has the last word on this issue.
Not quite...

Unfortunately, not all players on the market will play BDs that lack AACS. Some players are lenient. Some require an empty AACS folder. Others will not play non-protected discs at all.

So it seems that a key requirement is that 1) Players be able to play non-protected content, and 2) authoring systems need to make compliant discs, such as with empty AACS folders, if really required.

I don't think this will be a big deal. If the client is faced with spending a couple thousand dollars to get a disc to work with their current player or just buy a new player for under $300 or so....I'm sure they will just buy a new Blu-Ray player. Or take web delivery.

I don't think this will be a big deal. If the client is...You are assuming a client. But what of small, general distribution?

You can't realistically ask the people who attended a wedding/school play/amateur sporting event to purchase new BD players from your recommended list.

This got me irritated after seeing on a couple of forums, so I sent an email to the Blu-Ray Association for licensing.

Apparently, for wedding and event videographers, there is good news, but as he states, for movies, you will have to pay.

Here is the email response:

Dear Jerome,

For a small size company like you, we have a cost free license agreement called Logo License Agreement.

This permits you to use an official Blu-ray logo for your advertisement and promotion at no cost. I presume that the BD disc you intend to distribute is BD-R disc containing wedding and event video and the number of copies are small unlike movies.

Appreciate if you can download the Logo License Agreement application and send it back to us http://www.blu-raydisc.info/license_app/lla_apps.php

Thanks,

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Blu-ray Disc Association
License Office
10 Universal City Plaza, T-100
Universal City CA 91608 USA
Fax: 1-818-763-9027
E-mail: license@bdamail.com

AACS is used on both BD and HD DVD. The license fees are the same in either case.


The key difference - and its a major difference - is that AACS was optional on HD DVD but mandatory on Blu-Ray. So a small indie publisher could order up batch of 1,000 HD DVDs without AACS to save the $2,500.

Its been confirmed by both adult studios and at least one independent publisher (R&B Studios I believe) that Blu-Ray generally costs a good chunk more to publish and that they *must* pay AACS fees for their Blu-Ray releases.

I have a few questions on this topic:

How many BD's can you make before you're required to use AACS? Or is this rule simply for replication (pressed discs)?

How many players don't play non-AACS discs? A majority? Are they only the earliest players? How about the Playstation 3?

Second, according to the email Jerome recieved, if we apply and get accepted to the Logo License Agreement, we can use the Blu-Ray logo freely on our packaging, unlike DVD? If I understood that correctly, then that's at least one thing they've done right.

I have a few questions on this topic:

How many BD's can you make before you're required to use AACS? Or is this rule simply for replication (pressed discs)?

From what I"ve gleaned - and that's limited so add a pound of salt - you can burn all you want to at home. But you'll never burn a "real" holywood type AACS encrypted film at home because you don't have the tools to do so.


How many players don't play non-AACS discs? A majority? Are they only the earliest players? How about the Playstation 3?

Well that's where it gets fuzzy. There was a substantial amount of discussion on this subject at another forum and it included at least 2 Blu-Ray industry insiders, including one that worked directly for Sony. The insiders had to do research on this topic and I'm not sure if the entire discussion was really drawn to a solid conclusion. At the very least, I believe most existing players and hopefully all future players should support "basic" BD discs, which are essentially the video files and menus. Now advanced authored discs with Java authoring... I'm not so sure. Security flags may kick on players when non-AACS discs of that nature are played, possibly under the assumption that its a pirated copy of a real film. But don't take my word on this, it really needs to be researched.

I just installed my first BD burner today, so I'm going to revisit all the BD authoring materials I can get my hands on to see what the final story is. I'm not looking forward to it, because BD *is* heavily DRM'd. Its one of the reasons that several studios chose Blu-Ray exclusively to begin with. As it stands right now, I'm afraid I won't be able to author advanced discs with features like PiP or internet connectivity, but I hope I'm wrong.

You can't realistically ask the people who attended a wedding/school play/amateur sporting event to purchase new BD players from your recommended list.

You can much more easily ask them to buy a new BD player than pay over a $1000 to watch the disk. But someone else has already done the research and found out this is not necessary.

Eric,

It might not be legally necessary to include AACS, but the problem is that not all players will play AACS-free discs.

http://forums.support.roxio.com/index.php?showtopic=20850&st=0

This method of charging people should be illegal.

Can you imaging having to pay Epson or HP a fee every time you printed out a photgraph to sell to people? After all you are using their print technology to create items that you sell.

How about having to pay Canon or Nikon when you shoot a photograph that you sell?

What about having to pay Adobe when you create some cool graphic you sell on a stock footage website?

Since a HDV camera uses mpeg2 encoding I guess we cannot shoot any stock footage and sell that either or else we are breaking the law.

The only reason why these companies can charge these stupid fees is because nobody has told them they cannot. Nobody in congress is ever going to pass a law against this stupid sort of thing. Most other companies in the industry realize they cannot suck money out of people this way because it would never fly.

I can see licensing for copyright protection since we have to pay for that somehow but none of this other garbage that has to be paid to SONY or the Mpeg2 group. It isn't as if I am asking the mpeg2 group on SONY to encode it for me. I already paid both of those groups when I bought the software. I am all for copy protection and getting paid for the work that has been done on a product but the way I look at it I already paid Sony and the mpeg2 group when I bought a Blu-ray burner and a expensive mpeg2 encoder. If they want to nickel and dime us for every product we create then they should give the software and hardware for free and charge us every time we use it.

Interesting discussion. I wonder if the fact that there are now millions of HD TV sets and soon to be millions of HD consumer cameras with folks who will want to edit and see their home movies in high definition will exert any pressure on Sony and Blu-Ray?

Presumably the only high definition DVD format for home movies will also be Blu-Ray discs or some Blu-Ray style transfer on a standard DVD. Software such as Ulead Movie Factory 6+ or DVDit ProHD offer the ability to create "Blu-Ray" recordings "for the masses".

If the new consumer HD owners are not able to play their movies or to pass them around to different family members and friends who have different players (all ostensibly Blu-Ray) that will not play the discs, there will be a pretty big number of annoyed and disatisfied customers looking to retrieve their money invested in a technology that does not function.

that is the problem.
Sony wants to make us believe that HD is Blu-ray.
but you can store and play HD from many ways and a lot are cheaper and simpler. For instance the best way is to buy an harddisk based HD player and send the movies as data to your customer (WMV-HD on DVD for example or by download) , then they transfer it on the player.
I think people will realize soon that Sony is just implementing a kind of "blackmail" by media and as Mp3 almost killed CD, some virtual form of HD (not media based,but content based) will kill blu-ray.
today, thanks to youtube and camcorder, people are not more interested to just play purchased content, they want to record, edit, distribute their own.

You can much more easily ask them to buy a new BD player than pay over a $1000 to watch the disk. But someone else has already done the research and found out this is not necessary.

Eric, I think you are missing the point here. For these types of events, you can't ask anything of your customers.

They see you, they buy, it works or it doesn't work and they want a refund.

There is no room or expectation of buying anything or spending any more than the price of your product.

I personally am waiting on distributing anything in HD for quite some time unless it is a contract type of job.

It will be years before the lower level content producers can confidently sell HD discs and not fear them coming back due to the players not working or even having the players to begin with.


As far as Hard Drive players, I don't think they will be allowed to flurish due to the demise of the audio world with mp3's.

All content producers are trying to not repeat what has happened to the music industry. It is messy, but I can understand their point. - Spend $200 million dollars on a film and have it mass produced without ever seeing any proceeds.

Who is happy?

- studios producing major movies appear to have no downside to the success of Blu-Ray
- the manufacturers of BD discs are happy
- Sony the manufacturer of BD players has no downside of course
- the licensing agencies are happy
- the mass consumer of movies will be pleased not be forced to choose

Who is unhappy?

-Toshiba, of course, but they have gone to "plan B"
- the independent film maker for all the reasons you have all cited, and we do not yet seem to have a "plan B"

The implication is that no really big financial force in the industry is currently unhappy. The event photographers can get a free license to use the BD logo, but have no way to get AACS codes (making BD players reliable) for free or a reasonable one time fee. I am not sure how well documentary makers will fare in their application procedures.

At the same time the major studios need to protect their content. Current capability to crack the codes is pretty high, so that does not seem to be working especially well. In practice it is ineffective against the big bad guys, but hurts the little good guys.

Is there some way the independent film sector could collectively suggest a solution? For example, the independents need to be able to produce HD discs that are not in competition with the big boys so do not need content protection but that will play reliably on any BD player. Actually so will the consumer level HD movie maker need reliable BD players so they will be allies as will the HD consumer level camera makers.

Here is one suggestion. I am sure the indie group can come up with others that are much better, but this might start the conversation on how to get a plan B acceptable to all.

What about a consortium of independent film makers recommending a code similar to the AACS but intended only to notify BD players that the disc is OK to play? A one-time low-level fee would register an independent and provide the code.

I am not certain at what level of duplication the major studios might see competition -- but say 10,000 discs is the limit for any one title. Even for an independent, success above 10,000 discs could probably lever a real AACS code fee of $2,500.

Food for thought -- and the independents are going to need a legal plan B.

Alan

You raise good points Alan.

But I have to think, Sony makes cameras.

Nobody outside of broadcast outfits will want to buy HD cameras if they learn the footage can not be reliably played back.

What's the point?

This is kind of why I have been sort of against the whole HDV revolution for quite some time because it is putting medium before the media.

If the Blu-Ray group wants to shut out independent producers, who is going to buy all of the $1000 - $8,000 cameras?

These new cameras create great images, but if the web is the only place to view the footage, then I will continue to have a jaded view.

It is tough though. The very discs they are trying to block are burned on the same equipment small producers might use.

Also, the fact that Blu-Ray is a consortium makes it tough to get answers from one source.

I hope they can work some things out, soon.

Eric, I think you are missing the point here. For these types of events, you can't ask anything of your customers.

They see you, they buy, it works or it doesn't work and they want a refund.



You can demand anything you want from you customers.....it just doesn't mean you will get it. If you explain to the customer exactly what is going on they will be much more understanding(I work in retail ,along with a TV station, I know this). You don't have to give a refund ever, especially if you make a contract and tell them before hand....go the extra mile to tell people what could happen...sorry for the cleche.
Take DVD's for example. There are both + and - versions of them. Not all DVD players will play both. Fortunately with this it's a cheap fix of just burning the other version.
Now as other's have mentioned before there is web delivery also. You could let customers download the HD video files. You can distribute both a SD version of the disk, and a BD version and when they eventually decide to upgrade(prices always come down, when they want to see something badly enough they can pay for a new player..... I mean they already payed $600 for a wedding video or equivalent....if people will pay for this service they are not dirt poor.)
I really don't see this as being that big of a deal. Just give people something they can definatly watch. People are pretty understanding as long as you aren't a jerk, and yes, at times this can be hard.

You could let customers download the HD video files.That's far from a ubiquitous solution.

I live within 18 miles of an international airport, yet I cannot get true broadband. I pay $50 per month for 256 kbps wireless Internet. The only other options for me are satellite and dial-up.

Asking Grandma to download HD video files might not work so well either. But I'd bet she owns and can use a DVD player.

The key is that new players need to be able to play AACS-free discs. And product reviewers should be testing for the feature.

You can demand anything you want from you customers.....it just doesn't mean you will get it.

Well this is why I have stayed away from HD so far.

Demanding something you might not get from your customers is not a good business plan.

Weddings are a bit different as you have one customer you can meet with and they can get to know you.

But other 'event' work where you are recording a live event and trying to sell it to the attendees, forget about HD for a while.

You have no interaction with these customers. No time to explain anything other than price.

For this type of work, I am keeping my SD cameras until DVD sounds like yesterdays technology, because it will work, and reliability is more important than the image being a bit sharper.

I will probably pick up an EX-1 hopefully with a Convergent Designs XDR unit, but this type of filming will only be with certain types of projects.

What has bothered me about HD is that it is not going to be a one size fits all type of camera purchase like DV cameras were.

There will be some folks that will always have a DVD player and never buy a HD player.

This AACS mess will make that situation even worse for us.

Right now, I am resigned to only using HD for projects short enough to burn to a DVD (~20 min) and wait for some more dust to settle in the Blu-ray world.

We have to be able to distribute in HD. Just watching the footage that looks so great in the edit bay and gets dumbed down for customers just does not fly.

http://www.createspace.com/Products/Replication.jsp
“Copy Protection or Encryption (AACS) is available for $2,500 per title, plus $0.10/disc”
Wouldn’t that mean that it’s not mandatory?

Although there is also this:
http://www.createspace.com/Products/BrDOnDemand.jsp
“Pricing and availability will be announced as soon as key technology issues are resolved.”
Not sure if that really means anything.

Someone could try emailing them for further information. I’ve already emailed a different replication company and they haven’t responded yet.

At least most Blu-Ray players (meaning the PS3) shouldn’t have any issues playing back non AACS discs. The PS3 not being able to playback native EX1 clips is another story and I hope Sony fixes that with a firmware update.

Besides the fact that Sony makes camcorders, they also makes Blu-Ray burners. That alone should prove that they aren’t trying to stop Independent Producers from making their own content.

For Apple computers, Adobe Encore does allow people to author their own Blu-Ray discs but a lot of people would prefer to use DVD Studio and now that Blu-Ray finally won, I really don’t see a reason for Apple not upgrading it and releasing a Blu-Ray drive as a built to order option. They are loosing a lot of money taking this long.

http://www.createspace.com/Products/Replication.jsp
“Copy Protection or Encryption (AACS) is available for $2,500 per title, plus $0.10/disc”
Wouldn’t that mean that it’s not mandatory?

I'm not 100% sure, but I'd guess if you have them replicate a "Basic" disc as opposed to a BD-J disc, you could do it without AACS. If you want to replicate a BD-J disc, even if they *could* do it without AACS, your disc is unlikely to work anywhere including the PS3 (since this is a security "feature", not some hardware or software limitation).


Although there is also this:
http://www.createspace.com/Products/BrDOnDemand.jsp
“Pricing and availability will be announced as soon as key technology issues are resolved.”
Not sure if that really means anything.

They're likely still looking for an affordable place to easily get discs replicated. HD DVD has always had a huge production advantage with easily converted DVD lines printing HD DVDs. Additionally, most of the on-demand HD DVDs are simply replicated on DVD9 discs, which allow for about an 80-90 minute presentation using VC1. Blu-Ray production has had more limited availability and there have been fewer independent replicators. This is primarily due to the substantial capital investment to install brand new BD lines. Obviously now that BD has won, that'll improve. I just read that Cinram is adding 15 BD50 capable lines - that's a jump from the 2 they have now!


Besides the fact that Sony makes camcorders, they also makes Blu-Ray burners. That alone should prove that they aren’t trying to stop Independent Producers from making their own content.

Well lets just say they have a tight grip on what we can and can't do :)
Basically what it looks like right now is that the studios get all the cool toys (BD-J authored discs) and people that won't or can't cough up $2,500 + 10c per disc AACS fees get to play with "Basic" authored discs.

So we'll be able to distribute our content, its just kind of a bummer that we don't get to play with all the toys. With DVD (and HD DVD for that matter) we pretty much could do everything a studio did. If you wanted to put the time and effort into your DVD, you could give it all the razmataz of a studio release. That's gone. What we're basically going to have is approximately the types of menus and features we're used to with DVD, with the only difference being that our main presentations will be in HD. The whole "next generation" interactivity and capability that Blu-Ray brings to the table is... well, off the table :(

I asked Createspace the following: "In what format should I prepare a title for Blu-ray on demand?"

Kelly Beck replied: "At this time we are not offering Blu-ray duplication services"

I asked: "Does this mean you are not offering a high definition on demand sales option? That is all of the sales at this time are standard definition? I assume the HD DVD sales are no longer of any interest. Is that correct? Interesting times - I wonder what's next."

Kelly kindly and almost immediately replied again: "HD DVD is in Beta with some already for sale and Blu-ray is coming"

Alan

The threat of heavy amount of drm was the only reason why I was afraid of blu winning in the first place. I hope there's a way end users and content producers won't get screwed.

The threat of heavy amount of drm was the only reason why I was afraid of blu winning in the first place. I hope there's a way end users and content producers won't get screwed.

My feeling exactly not a good position to be in at this time.

Well, there's AVCHD disks. AVCHD compatibility is built into the Blu Ray spec. As the default "consumer" HD acquisition format, one would assume that DRM won't be required.

Some of the folks on the Sony Vegas forum have been successfully burning AVCHD to DVD-DL.

Keepin' my fingers crossed.

Well, there's AVCHD disks. AVCHD compatibility is built into the Blu Ray spec. As the default "consumer" HD acquisition format, one would assume that DRM won't be required.

Some of the folks on the Sony Vegas forum have been successfully burning AVCHD to DVD-DL.

Keepin' my fingers crossed.

I've burned lots of them, but they don't play in every Blu-ray player.

I thought folks might be interested in this correspondence I recently had with Mr. Morishita of the Blu-Ray Association.

I am an independent documentary producer who sells DVDs on Amazon and through the educational market. Most of my pieces are self-financed, and I have limited or no budget for licensing.

I have heard that in order to legally sell Blu-Ray disks to consumers to view on set-top players in their homes, I will need to pay licensing fees to the Blu-Ray association. Is this true? Is there a volume trigger beyond which licensing fees kick in? What> kind of fees could I expect? Are there any exceptions or lower rates for small, independent producers like myself?

Thanks very much in advance for the clarification.

Brian Standing, Madison, WI
Prolefeed Studios: www.prolefeedstudios.com
Documentary for the masses!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Dear Mr. Standing,

Thanks for your interest to Blu-ray Disc format and your inquiry.

For an independent producer like you, we do have a free of charge Logo
License Agreement to use BD logo for your BD disc promotion and
advertisement www.blu-raydisc.info/license_app/lla_apps.php

If you would like to be listed as a BD licensee in our web site and your BD
disc to have Regional Protection Code, then you have to apply for Content
Participant Agreement-Light for the amount of $500 per year.

Our minimum requirement for an independent producer like you, is to make
sure that you place your order to a BD licensed disc manufacturer(authoring
house/replicator). It assures that licensed manufacturers are qualified disc
manufacturers which have proven the compatibility with the BD players in the
market.
For the list of licensed replicators, please visit our site.
www.blu-raydisc.info/flla_licensee_lists_ROM2.php

Regards

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------
Blu-ray Disc Association
Kappei Morishita
License Officer
10 Universal City Plaza, T-100
Universal City CA 91608 USA
Fax: 1-818-763-9027
E-mail: agent@blu-raydisc.info

Here are my follow-up questions and Mr. Morishita's responses.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Mr. Standing,

Let me try to answer one by one.

Q: I'm assuming, that as a small video producer, I'll most likely be
burning onto BD-R media. Is that correct?

A: Generally speaking as long as the number of copies you require is
less than a thousand, it makes more sense to burn your content in BD-R media
than BD-ROM media. However they can be playable only in BD Drive built-in PC
and many of BD Stand Alone movie players but NOT all. If you want your BD disc
to be playable on BD-ROM Movie player, I am afraid there isn't any
economically feasible way to manufacture BD-ROM and distribute.

Q: So, as a small, independent producer of documentaries, trying to
self-distribute to a home video and educational market here are my
three major questions:

Q: Do I burn onto BD-R, Version 1 or Version 2 (or does it matter)?

A: Not really.

Q: When I use a "licensed replicator" (I can't find anything in the Blu-Ray material that is specifically called "replicators," only "media") to meet the terms of the Blu-Ray Logo Agreement, will I have to pay AACS copy protection fees for each title? Or will I just pay the normal duplication costs? If I do have to pay for AACS copy protection, how much will those fees cost me for duplicating less than 500 copies?

A: Yes "licensed replicators" has the same meaning as "media". They normally manufacture only BD-ROM but in very large q'ty, minimum order of 10k or more. So I don't think it's worth asking them.

Q: If I decide I don't care about using the Blu-Ray logo on my disks, can I sell BD-R disks with no AACS copy protection, with no logo? If I do, will my audience be able to watch those disks on standalone Blu-Ray players?

A: Yes you can distribute BD-R discs without AACS but they can be copied/ripped by anyone just like CD.

Blu-ray Disc Association
Kappei Morishita
License Officer
10 Universal City Plaza, T-100
Universal City CA 91608 USA
Fax: 1-818-763-9027
E-mail: agent@blu-raydisc.info

Brain,
Thanks for posting! So it seems to me that only the media houses are required to pay the big license in order to be "licensed" or approved to create the BR-Rom -- or for doing LARGE runs like 10K or more.

It also appears that a dupe house that can do BR is not required to pay for each title....

BUT, if you want AACS, then its required.

Bunch of grey lines huh?

Q: I'm assuming, that as a small video producer, I'll most likely be
burning onto BD-R media. Is that correct?

A: Generally speaking as long as the number of copies you require is
less than a thousand, it makes more sense to burn your content in BD-R media
than BD-ROM media. However they can be playable only in BD Drive built-in PC
and many of BD Stand Alone movie players but NOT all. If you want your BD disc
to be playable on BD-ROM Movie player, I am afraid there isn't any
economically feasible way to manufacture BD-ROM and distribute.

It seems to me that antitrust laws might be being broken. By not making it mandatory (as part of the specs) that BD-R be playable on ALL stand alone movie players and there being no "economically feasible way to manufacture BD-ROM and distribute", small producers are arguably put at an unfair competitive disadvantage (to the big studios).

From Wikipedia:

Competition law, known in the United States as "antitrust law", has three main elements:

* prohibiting agreements or practices that restrict free trading and competition between business entities. This includes in particular the repression of cartels.
* banning abusive behaviour by a firm dominating a market, or anti-competitive practices that tend to lead to such a dominant position. Practices controlled in this way may include predatory pricing, tying, price gouging, refusal to deal and many others.
* supervising the mergers and acquisitions of large corporations, including some joint ventures. Transactions that are considered to threaten the competitive process can be prohibited altogether, or approved subject to "remedies" such as an obligation to divest part of the merged business or to offer licences or access to facilities to enable other businesses to continue competing.

I think the answer is relatively simple - develop a list of known conpatible players - this is no different than the situation with DVDs - compatibility issues out the wazoo... I've heard of event video guys just pricing in an inexpensive "free" player they know to be compatible and tossing it in with the package...

It would be NICE if BR is more effectively compatible, to be sure, but with new tech, there are always going to be issues.

AS to "antitrust"
<tongue in cheek mode on>
I'd kinda like to build my own car, but with all the gover-mint regu-layshuns, I can't compete with the big guys...

A: Yes you can distribute BD-R discs without AACS but they can be copied/ripped by anyone just like CD.



He seems a very nice, helpful chap, but has no-one broken the news to him?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2007/may/06/comment.media

I think soon all BD players will start to support "home made" material.
it's good news that AACS is not hard wired into the format.

(just in case anyone gets jumpy, the above link goes to a news story, and contains no information on HOW to crack AACS)

There's a very interesting article by Larry Jordan on the new Creative Planet's Digital Production BuZZ - Tips and Tricks Newsletter -- March 4, 2008

Very interesting because of it's final sentence:

"Depending how this plays out over the next year, Blu-Ray DVDs may become irrelevant, just as they were starting to be taken seriously."


http://www.digitalproductionbuzz.com/CPCeNewsletter/ (don't know if you can see it there, but their Podcast should have it too: http://www.digitalproductionbuzz.com/Podcast/ )

The inherent problem with copy protection and security "schemes" is that they are only effective as long as they can be kept secret - once the "secret" is out, there are lots of "creative" people ready and willing to exploit or otherwise bypass the "security".

Security Rule #1, NOTHING is uncrackable.
Security Rule #2, if you claim something is uncrackable, SOMEONE will prove you wrong...

Dave, no, the problem with THESE copy protection schemes is that they're more of an inconvenience to customers and (independent) producers than to file sharers and pirates.

I've always liked this ad promotion:

DIGITAL - It's everything you could do with analog - AND LESS!!!

Dave, no, the problem with THESE copy protection schemes is that they're more of an inconvenience to customers and (independent) producers than to file sharers and pirates.

You've made my point - copy protection "schemes" are designed to make it inconvenient to make copies... which PRIMARILY affects the casual user who makes a backup or a rare copy. They DO NOT present a serious obstacle to the very parties who seek to profit from... MAKING COPIES.

They ultimately provides little protection against the pirates who will turn out hundreds or thousands of copies, so have a financial interest in doing so.

And in inconveniencing the "end user", the manufacturers discourage the adpotion of the very things they are trying to protect and profit from! In the short term this makes some sense to some bean counter, who is trying to preserve "profits" from a traditional product curve that I suspect no longer exists in the digital world...

The new paradigm is - offer a reasonable price, offer it fast and sell a boatload (making your profits on quantity, not high per piece markup), move on to the next thing, repeat - oddly enough the exact "business model" employed by the pirates - if the legit businesses adopted that mindset, there might be no pirating, as there no longer would be any profit in it!

How many Blu-ray players/burners/content discs do you think they would sell at a competitive price point to current DVD offerings? DVD would die nearly overnight.

Traditional marketing says you have to protect your product through a life cycle, start pricing high, then slowly move it down until you introduce the "next big thing" at a high price, and commoditize the "old tech". I'm not sure that mindset has much validity now, and expect it will become less and less viable as time goes by.

Enough philosophy, but I think you get my point...

Dave! Stop that at once! You're making entirely too much sense. Do you have any idea how dangerous that is??? The MPAA knows and hears all...

You've made my point - copy protection "schemes" are designed to make it inconvenient to make copies... which PRIMARILY affects the casual user who makes a backup or a rare copy. They DO NOT present a serious obstacle to the very parties who seek to profit from... MAKING COPIES.

There's also the "analog hole," meaning re-recording content from a display without bothering to crack DRM. With hi-def displays and hi-def camcorders, this is becoming ever more feasible. Although some quality degradation will occur, the result may still be better than standard DVDs, with their digital artifacts.

There's also the "analog hole," meaning re-recording content from a display without bothering to crack DRM. With hi-def displays and hi-def camcorders, this is becoming ever more feasible. Although some quality degradation will occur, the result may still be better than standard DVDs, with their digital artifacts.

That's a real problem. The truth is that people that care about quality are likely the same folks that don't mind paying $15-25 for a movie. On the other hand, the people that are paying $2-6 for pirated movies are *not* discriminating shoppers that are very concerned with quality. I bet an analog copy of a BD movie downrezzed to 720P and burned onto a DVD9 in AVC basic video mode would do quite well in the $5 pirate market.

So unfortunately in the end DRM typically hampers honest paying consumers while not really denying the $5 pirate crowd anything. :(

Dave! Stop that at once! You're making entirely too much sense. Do you have any idea how dangerous that is??? The MPAA knows and hears all...

Yeah, well sometimes I like to think that common sense is actually common...

I hope all that are in favor of blue ray and horrahed it's triumph realize what has been done. If you think I am just blowing off steam, take a look at words from this interview:

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/05/a-299-sony-blu-ray-player-but-no-cheap-chinese-models/?ref=technology


I already had an A2, but I picked up an A3 a few days ago. No blue ray for me for a while... I am interested in how this will play out over the next year..

And then there's the genius at Sony... yeesh.

Sure it's great to have a "premium" product, but not eveyone is going to pay premium prices, and 2-3 years later the tech landscape can change A LOT.

I'm 110% certain that there are Chinese reverse engineering the things right now, it's inevitable. Wake up Sony... the only way to beat them is make their business model unprofitable and make your profits on volume market adoption... while you can!

Nothing says you can't have models at various price points with various features!

Some people will always buy the most expensive thing (I pick up my slightly used cameras that way when they discover they have no idea what to do with them....) because it's expensive and gives them some satisfaction... the other 90%+ will hold out until something cheaper and just as useful is available - and some will just buy cheap Chinese junk or knockoffs because it's what they can afford...

Ultimately market penetration and mass adoption makes or breaks the product. Sony is apparently slightly clueless to this concept. Reality will come their way soon enough.