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Steve Mullen
July 1st, 2003, 08:55 PM
This thread will be for posting information by owners of either the HD10 or HD1.

All may read.

On-topic questions are welcome.

Posts with comments from non-owners will be moved to the most appropriate thread.

Paul Mogg
July 1st, 2003, 11:21 PM
Ken Freed of JVC just posted the following reply to me.

The S/A sets auto exposure priority. If you set a shutter value the camera will auto exposure using the iris.

If you set iris the camera alters shutter.

The manual control you desire is not on this unit.

The AGC is the automatic use of the camera's whopping 6dB of gain to keep the image brighter. It does show grain in the image.

Ken Freed JVC
1700 Valley Road
Wayne, NJ 07470
(800) 526-5308 x5419
kfreed@jvc.com

I think I may have had the AGC set to ON while filming some of my clips that I posted, if not ALL of them. So I look forward to trying again with it off. Perhaps that may explain some of the color noise?

Steve Mullen
July 1st, 2003, 11:44 PM
<<<-- Originally posted by Paul Mogg : I think I may have had the AGC set to ON while filming some of my clips that I posted, if not ALL of them. So I look forward to trying again with it off. Perhaps that may explain some of the color noise? -->>>

If the term AGC is being used correctly, gain will only be applied IF needed. So you likely didn't add noise.

Steve Mullen
July 2nd, 2003, 08:37 PM
Finally got my HD10. Two notes:

1. You can "check" the current AUTO set shutter-speed and current AUTO set aperature. That means you can learn where you are -- which is what I hoped.

Now, in AUTO, the EC dial "should" alter just the iris. Since you know where it was before the bias -- you know where it is.



2. According to JVC, the default shutter-speed is 1/30th S. They say it's equal to a zero degree shutter -- not the 180 degree used by the DVX100 or film. The advantage is a stop better sensitivity and more blur to cover the strobbing.

In my house the shutter was usually 1/30th. But, I'll bet it will be 1/60th outside.

So I'm not sure yet which is the REAL default. Maybe there is none. :)

It's possible the AE system keeps the shutter-speed and iris in balance. This could be a problem since speed is so critical to strobing.

Will be testing all weekend.

Joe Russ
July 3rd, 2003, 01:46 PM
i got mine last week. the closest ive been able to come to controlling it 'manually' is to set the camera to sports mode (1/250 shutter) and then lock the exposure. though the shutter speed is much higher than most people will want im happy with it as long as i can get proper lighting (indoors is a little difficult), thats what post is for.

Steve Mullen
July 3rd, 2003, 02:23 PM
ASSUMING that my trick reveals the curent speed and iris:

Today with an 8ND filter I found:

The AE system is always in a "programmed" mode. No matter the light, speed never goes below 1/30th nor above 1/250th. And f16 and f/22 seems never to get chosen.

Thus its got some smarts -- or rather the engineers built a lookup table that shows some smarts.

BUT, not only does the camers feel free to chose speeds from 1/30th to 1/250th -- it seems to prefer to change speed rather than f stop! Now that's dumb.

Moreover, I think it may hunt. Under a sudden change to bright light it first goes to 1/250. Then over time it drops back to 1/125. 1/100, amd 1/60th. Each time, altering the F stop appropriatly.

But, the engineers may have had a reason. It looks like the F-stops are discreet. Whereas speed is continueous. Thus, it makes sense to quickly alter speed to keep perfect exposure.

While that logically is OK -- it's a real problem when the frame rate is only 25fps. The widely varying speed is not good for strobe artifacts.

In short, what is OK for a consumer DV camcorder does not fly at 30p.

It also suggests that there is no default speed.

So it looks like one must lock shutter-speed to whatever you want. Which means, you will now be at the mercy of the AE system.

Joe Russ
July 3rd, 2003, 02:57 PM
or do what i said, which locks the exposure and the shutter speed (just means you'll be at 250, means you need a lot more lighting in doors, and bright stuff outdoors)...if only you could set the default, in sd mode the default is 1/60, i just need 1/60 in hd mode. and then id be happy

Heath McKnight
July 3rd, 2003, 04:01 PM
I'm wondering if I shouldn't have bought this camera. The auto iris and "searching for an f-stop" thing is really annoying. Esp. since I'm using this mostly for filmmaking.

Nuts...

What about the exposure wheel near the lens? What's that for, the photo mode?

heath

Steve Mullen
July 3rd, 2003, 04:50 PM
<-- What about the exposure wheel near the lens? What's that for, the photo mode? -->

That's how you bias the AE for exposure control. And how you lock it.

The manual isn't clear, but you need to read this section. ;)

Frankly, I find the AE spot on -- so I'm inclined to simply lock shutter at 1/60th and shoot. (Using 8X ND.) It looks great on an 8 foot screen and JVC HD 19" monitor.

Do not use Auto Focus at 1/30th S!

More tests are needed. I'm off to DC with the camera. No posts. Have a great 4th!

Heath McKnight
July 3rd, 2003, 05:09 PM
You, too, Steve. Tell me if I wasted $3200!

heath

Joe Russ
July 3rd, 2003, 07:40 PM
i personally cant deal with AE. if you light a scene, its meant to have a balance between light and dark, and ae will try to optimize whatevers in the frame at that time. that compromises the whole point of setting the lighting in the first place. it would be fine if i was doing a home movie for fun or something, but thats not what i bought the camera for. so i need to lock the AE, ive done sufficient testing for motion artifacts and i can successfully convert the 30p to 24p without stuttering and keep the exposure and frame rate locked....the iris may be wandering, but it doesnt seem to affect the picture...

also, i just bought a tiffen low contrast 2 filter today to compliment the ND filters and my wide angle adapter. Ill see if it improves the low range lattitude...cos the chroma noise in the shadow areas on this camera hurts.....even without gain.

so, i should have some good tests (from a short im making for a video/film class) to show my video post soon.

Heath McKnight
July 3rd, 2003, 08:00 PM
Okay, how do I lock the AE without the filters and stuff?

I was in Best Buy, hooking it up to HDTVs (don't ask), and aiming the camera all around showed how bad the stupid auto iris is. I need to get rid of that, or I'm screwed with this camera. ARGH!

heath

Heath McKnight
July 4th, 2003, 12:04 PM
I posted elsewhere that my buddy heard JVC stopped shipping HD10s to re-do the controls. I am now fed up, myself, and being a non-techie, I can't figure out how in the heck to get around the auto iris.

Paul, Joe, Steve, any ideas? If I can't figure it out by Monday, I call JVC and get some answeres. If all else fails, the camera goes back and I buy either an alleged "fixed" HD10 or a DVX100 and wait a while for a new mini-HD.

heath

Joe Russ
July 4th, 2003, 12:28 PM
i wonder if thats true, if so ill be returning mine for a 'fixed' one when they re-release.....but im guessing that its not true, just cos it sounds too good to be true.

Heath McKnight
July 4th, 2003, 12:35 PM
<<<-- Originally posted by Joe Russ : i wonder if thats true, if so ill be returning mine for a 'fixed' one when they re-release.....but im guessing that its not true, just cos it sounds too good to be true. -->>>

Chris made a great point: rumor for now. First thing Monday, I call Ken Freed and ask for some help and clarification.

I felt pretty desperate earlier with the auto iris thing. Joe, you gave me a solution. But, what happens when I am shooting a movie, and someone walks in front of the camera? Will your technique stop the iris from adjusting automatically?

heath

Joe Russ
July 4th, 2003, 12:44 PM
well, the exposure is locked, and as far as i can tell. locking the exposure locks the iris too (i could be wrong), but ive pointed it right into bright lights and then into dark spots and there is no change.....and whenever i switch back to set the iris its at 2.0, which is the default i believe.....but i really dont know for sure, more testing needs to be done.

Heath McKnight
July 4th, 2003, 01:03 PM
<<<-- Originally posted by Joe Russ : well, the exposure is locked, and as far as i can tell. locking the exposure locks the iris too (i could be wrong), but ive pointed it right into bright lights and then into dark spots and there is no change.....and whenever i switch back to set the iris its at 2.0, which is the default i believe.....but i really dont know for sure, more testing needs to be done. -->>>

How do I lock the exposure?

Also, I will be shooting the fireworks tonight, just to see how they look. I'll follow your guide you posted.

heath

Michael Pappas
July 4th, 2003, 01:20 PM
Heath, this could be a very important piece of info in regard to what your friend heard. Now can your friend be reliable when it comes to info like this? Info like this does not manifest all on it's own, so where did he hear this?

It's very possible this is the case. JVC has come out with a starter level MiniDV HD camera that is from the pro division. Now the consumer version they don't need to worry about since that's consumer. But channel the HD10U thru the pro path and it better at least have manual exposure control at the very least. So maybe this was a major screw up that JVC wants to fix before they have shipped to many. Not many have reached the shores, so they could easily do this modify and move on.

In my opinion JVC could have something here, but when something's from the pro division at least bring it to that level. Don't repackage the same camera with a beachtech like adapter and call it pro. They at least upped the res on the VF to a base level 180k. So if they could make this kind of change, then it was possible to make the camera have controls of a beginning level pro camera.

Michael Pappas
www.pbase.com/arrfilms
www.pbase.com/PappasArts9





<<<-- Originally posted by Heath McKnight : I posted elsewhere that my buddy heard JVC stopped shipping HD10s to re-do the controls. I am now fed up, myself, and being a non-techie, I can't figure out how in the heck to get around the auto iris.

Paul, Joe, Steve, any ideas? If I can't figure it out by Monday, I call JVC and get some answeres. If all else fails, the camera goes back and I buy either an alleged "fixed" HD10 or a DVX100 and wait a while for a new mini-HD.

heath -->>>

Heath McKnight
July 4th, 2003, 03:37 PM
My friend is VERY reliable, but Chris Hurd is right--we'll keep it as a rumor until Ken Freed emails me back Monday (or whenever). If you ask me, this is the HD1 with the Beachtek-like adaptor on it. Then again, I have yet to use the HD1.

If I can't get a good answer, or a good solution, the camera goes back.

From Ken Freed (via Paul Mogg):

"The S/A sets auto exposure priority. If you set a shutter value the camera will auto exposure using the iris.

If you set iris the camera alters shutter.

The manual control you desire is not on this unit. (ARRRRRRRRGH!)

The AGC is the automatic use of the camera's whopping 6dB of gain to keep the image brighter. It does show grain in the image."

heath

Brian Gardner
July 5th, 2003, 12:19 PM
I for one am going to make these cams work .... Auto Iris issues or not.

If there are flaws and they are eventually corrected, I'm sure JVC will stand behind the upgrades. ?



Brian

Craig Jones
July 5th, 2003, 12:45 PM
If JVC reworks the camera including the chassis then we're in for a really long wait. If changes are limited to firmware, which I'd imagine would be the case, then hopefully all cameras would be upgradable. If this rumor is true I view it as good news for everyone.

I've read conflicting information on the HD10 viewfinder. Can anyone verify with certainty that the HD10 viewfinder is improved over the HD1? I'd be really surprised if it wasn't the same.

Joe Russ
July 5th, 2003, 02:29 PM
it is, but its pretty bad in the one i have.....i just use the lcd anyway.....its more "accurate"...you know yer in focus on something when the edges stair step because the resolution of the viewfinder is so much less then the actual res (hd anyway) and with the oversharpening you get nice stair step over focusing on the in focus areas. in a backwards way it makes it easier (for me anyway) to focus.

im considering tradomg up for a dvx100.....the chroma and luma noise on the camera is starting to bother me......its huge....and leaves little lattitude to adjust saturation and color balances before it rears its ugly smudgy head.....

Craig Jones
July 5th, 2003, 02:48 PM
My HD1 viewfinder is not good, but I would expect a 180K viewfinder in that size to be pretty good. If the claim is that the HD10 viewfinder is bad, I'd have to believe it's the same as the HD1.

In my application the camera will be housed, so I get the VF plus and external NTSC monitor. The flipout cannot be used so it's worthwhile for me to have the better VF if it exists.

Anyone else annoyed that the camera won't respond to a single control once it switches into power-save? You have to close-then-open the screen or VF to reactivate. Neither of those things are possible inside a housing so all that's left is the power switch. Anyone also notice that closing the VF screws up the diopter adjustment? How come operating any control other than REC won't reset the sleep timeout? It's mistakes like these that make it seem like JVC's never made a camcorder before.

Steve Mullen
July 6th, 2003, 06:43 PM
Quick Note:

The JVC controls exposure using the shutter-speed. The shutter-speed can vary CONTINUOUSLY between 1/15th and 1/250th (It seems to stay under 1/250th using an 8X ND -- which I recommend). There is no DEFAULT shutter-speed!

It does NOT work as most of us expect or want -- although it works like most consumer camcorders. And, like the VX2000/PD150 when you don't turn AUTO-SHUTTER OFF.

Think of it as a "Speed Mastered and Aperature Slaved" AE. The shutter-speed adjustment is very fast -- possibly adjusting frame-by-frame to achieve very solid exposure control.

Because a lookup table is used for AE, the aperature will always be as open as possible -- given the current speed. (Thus it is biased to minimum DOF.)

Unfortunately, for a low 30FPS camcorder this operation is the OPPOSITE of what is needed. We need all exposure control via the iris.

One way to prevent swings in shutter-speed is to SET shutter-speed. (Press S/A once and set.) Now you are in Shutter Priority mode with all exposure done automatically and via the iris.

Thankfully, the AE is very accurate at setting exposures for you. It's hard to get a bad pix. However, it needs lots of light and it can't handle small very bright highlights.

So YOU must take active control of light during shooting. Add more and/or reduce contrast. If you can't or won't take control of the light in a scene:

* forget the camera.

* Get used to a more complicated way of setting exposure. More to come on this.

Heath McKnight
July 6th, 2003, 06:54 PM
So YOU must take active control of light during shooting. Add more and/or reduce contrast. If you can't or won't take control of the light in a scene:

* forget the camera.

* Get used to a more complicated way of setting exposure. More to come on this.

Okay, makes sense. Even in DV mode, this does this? I don't think shooting a wedding will be good if I can't control the iris. Did you find a way to turn it off?

I'm making a movie, I light the scene, I have an actor walk from behind the camera. Will the iris freak out??? Will it adjust when the actor walks in front of the camera, where it may not be lit?

heath

Steve Mullen
July 6th, 2003, 09:03 PM
<<<-- Originally posted by Heath McKnight I'm making a movie, I light the scene, I have an actor walk from behind the camera. -->>>

OK -- here's Part 2.

1) Light your scene.

2) Press SA once -- note the speed.

3) Press SA again and note F stop.

4) Press SA again.

5) Repeat 1 thru 4 until there is no change to either value.

The speed should be 1/60th at about F2.8 or F5.6. If faster than 1/60th -- reduce light or use ND. If slower than 1/60th -- add light if possible. (Even with AGC ON, indoors you may have to live with 1/30th.)

As you adjust light, repeat steps 1 through 5. You are using the camera as a crude light meter. REMEMBER, speed will change much faster than iris!

Once you have verified your exposure is OK, press the EC dial once. Then press and hold until the L appears.

Now both speed and iris are locked.

Steve Mullen
July 6th, 2003, 09:12 PM
<<<-- Originally posted by Craig Jones : If changes are limited to firmware, which I'd imagine would be the case, then hopefully all cameras would be upgradable. If this rumor is true I view it as good news for everyone. -->

I'd be happy if the firmware could be modified to act at the same time as the shutter was locked. Interestingly a JVC teckie wondered aloud to me WHY that wasn't possible. But, after the pro group worked so long on tweeking the image -- it would seem IF IT WERE POSSIBLE they would have already asked for it from Japan. Unless they didn't realize the need before the protests began.

I wouldn't count on an upgrade.

<-- I've read conflicting information on the HD10 viewfinder. -->>>

It's different. I wouldn't consider the HD1 because the edge-enhancement is nicely gone from the HD10.

Heath McKnight
July 6th, 2003, 10:14 PM
Steve,

I know you're saving your review of the hd10 for the magazine you write for, but is this version/generation worth buying? Or, in certain cases, worth holding onto? Did you hear about JVC not selling any more so they can make fixes to it, as my friend says a JVC rep allegedly said? (I use allegedly a lot, thanks to working in news.)

Thanks for your help and, yes, that tip you gave fills me with confidence.

BTW, Best Buy is selling a Samsung 30 inch (16x9 shaped) HDTV for $999.

heath

Michael Hyun
July 7th, 2003, 12:05 PM
Hey,

I own the HD1, and I'd like to share some findings. Steve, much of what you say is pretty accurate.

However, I've noticed something. You said:

"The JVC controls exposure using the shutter-speed. The shutter-speed can vary CONTINUOUSLY between 1/15th and 1/250th (It seems to stay under 1/250th using an 8X ND -- which I recommend). There is no DEFAULT shutter-speed!

It does NOT work as most of us expect or want -- although it works like most consumer camcorders. And, like the VX2000/PD150 when you don't turn AUTO-SHUTTER OFF.

Think of it as a "Speed Mastered and Aperature Slaved" AE. The shutter-speed adjustment is very fast -- possibly adjusting frame-by-frame to achieve very solid exposure control.

Because a lookup table is used for AE, the aperature will always be as open as possible -- given the current speed. (Thus it is biased to minimum DOF.)"

This is exactly the opposite of my findings.

My JVC has a tendancy to stay at 1/30th and swing between f2.0 to f22 with increasing amounts of light. If you increase the shutter speed to 1/60th it has a tendancy to stay at 1/60th, cycling between f2.0 to f22 unless light drops off for a moment in which case shutterspeed drops back down to 1/30th. This would mean the the shutter wants to stay as slow as possible (excluding 1/15). This AE behavior suits this cameras 30p mode better that what you found.

Also, the camera will NOT go into 1/15 for any reason, unless you set it manually. I like to think of 1/15 as a manually selected low light mode.

Anyways, although disappointed with the non-fully manual exposure, the fact that it's A/E behavior is pretty predictable gives me hope.

I believe that the ability to lock the exposure with a seemingly default shutter speed of 1/30th is not that bad a compromise. Maybe if you increase the shutter speed to 1/60 and not hit any major light changes (staying in the light range of 1/60 and f2.0 and f22) it's tendency to stick with a constant shutter speed will allow you to lock the exposure at 1/60th too.

Although this isn't a perfect system, I think I can live with it given the incredibly fine images the camera produces.

BTW- I believe the people that constantly bash the camera for having 1 CCD or MPEG2 compression, haven't properly seen the images it creates (or are subconsciously upset they just purchased the latest iteration of the dv format). It's wonderfully detailed on a large HD display- like you are staring through a window. I think people are underestimating what increased resolution means in video. While they will GUSH and GUSH about subtle differences in color saturation of 3 chip cameras vs 1 chippers and the stunning differences between 24p vs 30p vs 60i, they dismiss what is quite revolutionary in handheld camcorders. HD is not a novelty. It is the future and is quite amazing.

Even with all the JVC's quirks, it is still the best camcorder 3k can buy right now.

Craig Jones
July 7th, 2003, 12:18 PM
I've also experienced the HD1's willingness to change aperture and leave the shutter at 1/30. When going from dark to light, the camera first closed the aperture then modified the shutter speed.

Michael Hyun
July 7th, 2003, 12:31 PM
Craig,

Have you also noticed it's tendancy to stay at a particular shutter speed after you select it? It tends to drop from 1/100th to 1/60th pretty easily, but will stay in 1/60th for me relatively consistently (sans a huge drop in light). Once it drops to 1/30th it will stay there unless a light source is brighter than what 1/30th and f22 can handle.

Craig Jones
July 7th, 2003, 12:42 PM
Yes, exactly. Mine tends to keep its shutter and adjust its aperture. Once forced to another shutter speed, it tries to stick to that shutter speed until forced to change again. Sort of a shutter "hysteresis loop" when going from dark to light to dark again.

It also changes more easily at higher shutter speeds as you said, so it tends to be "stickiest" at 1/60 and 1/30. I didn't pay as close attention as you did but what you said sounds right.

Steve Mullen
July 7th, 2003, 12:55 PM
<<<-- Originally posted by Michael Hyun : Hey,

I own the HD1. My JVC has a tendancy to stay at 1/30th and swing between f2.0 to f22 with increasing amounts of light. If you increase the shutter speed to 1/60th it has a tendancy to stay at 1/60th, cycling between f2.0 to f22 unless light drops off for a moment in which case shutterspeed drops back down to 1/30th. This would mean the the shutter wants to stay as slow as possible (excluding 1/15). This AE behavior suits this cameras 30p mode better that what you found. --->

Your HD1 is doing exactly what it should. But I've found my HD10 doing the opposite. If I'm shooting and the sun becomes brighter -- the speed jumps to 1/250th and you can see the strobe increase. Perhaps there is a difference between HD1 and HD10! Or, maybe my always using an 8X ND outdoors alters the AE program.

Thank you for your post. More tests wo ND to follow.

<--- I think people are underestimating what increased resolution means in video. While they will GUSH and GUSH about subtle differences in color saturation of 3 chip cameras vs 1 chippers and the stunning differences between 24p vs 30p vs 60i, they dismiss what is quite revolutionary in handheld camcorders. HD is not a novelty. -->>>

I agree. The bashers sound like pre-adolesencts told about sex. They think it sounds ikkky! Then after they have their first taste!!!

Heath McKnight
July 7th, 2003, 01:04 PM
The one thing I haven't complained about is the image quality! That I dig.

What about the people I've shot with the HD10 who look "ghost-like?" How can I fix that.

Still waiting to hear back from Ken Freed (I called him for direct, one-on-one help).

heath

Michael Hyun
July 7th, 2003, 01:09 PM
Heath,

Are you talking about the ghosting that comes with the lower shutter speeds? Have you tried to increase shutter speed?

Joe Russ
July 7th, 2003, 02:06 PM
i think i will be returning my camera as well. i can deal with the lack of real manual controls, the dark image and even the over sharpening (i didnt get the "pro" model). but the lack of color fidelity ruins any gain in resolution and the chroma and luma noise is painful. being a student i cant afford to throw 3000 bucks down on something that isnt giving me 3000 dollars worth of performance. so i will be trading up for a dvx100...the lack of resolution is a minimal cost for better performance.

Heath McKnight
July 7th, 2003, 02:33 PM
Just talked on the phone with Ken Freed, very nice guy. He said FORGET the S/A button all together and do everything on the side with the exposure wheel. Adjust accordingly (it's still auto iris, but it has a bias to it) and then hold down the exposure "wheel" until you see an "L."

So far, the image is great, I just didn't like the lack of manual control. It worked! More tests tonight.


The "ghost" effects, he said, is something with eye perception. We'll see if there is validity to it.

As for my contact who said the JVC rep told my contact the camera was going back; well, Ken actually KNOWS him, and we're going to get to the bottom of it!

heath

Michael Hyun
July 7th, 2003, 02:40 PM
that's too bad joe,

I directly compared the dvx100, the vx2000 and the gl2 with the HD1 before I bought my camera.

I found that that individual variances in color of the 3 chippers were almost as great as a 3chipper vs. the HD1. A bit less saturated under close inspection but still subtle. The chroma noise pre post wasn't much worse either. I think the most noticable difference was the relative lack of exposure latitude and flexability but again, only under some lighting situations, and somewhat avoidable by carefully adjusting for and controlling exposure.

But observe the images on an HD screen and the difference jumps out at you. It is not subtle at all- like day and night. The others produce nice camcorder images. The HD1 produces a window into a different time and place with incredible depth and realism.

I belive I can live with the flaws of the HD1 to get that kind of picture. To tell you the truth I don't think you are "trading up" for anything.

But to each their own.

Good luck with your new camera.

Brian Gardner
July 7th, 2003, 02:42 PM
I agree.



Brian

Heath McKnight
July 7th, 2003, 02:51 PM
This camera rules, despite some ergonomics flaws, and so far, the tips Ken Freed gave me are working out with the iris. I'll do an extensive test. He also mentioned the serial number on the software (received some laughs when I mentioned it) and the problems we've been having with it. He said the "1" I keep putting in isn't a "1" or both a capital and lower case "I," but probably a capital or lower case "L." Sigh...

heath

Craig Jones
July 7th, 2003, 04:16 PM
<<<-- Originally posted by Heath McKnight : Just talked on the phone with Ken Freed, very nice guy. He said FORGET the S/A button all together and do everything on the side with the exposure wheel. Adjust accordingly (it's still auto iris, but it has a bias to it) and then hold down the exposure "wheel" until you see an "L."

heath -->>>

This doesn't do anything on my HD1. You're saying that, while in full auto mode, if I press and hold the exposure control long enough I should get something other than the +/- 0 indicator?

Michael Hyun
July 7th, 2003, 04:23 PM
Craig,

holding the exposure wheel will lock the exposure setting at whatever point it was when you started holding it down.

There are 10 steps in either direction (don't know what this corresponds to in f stops), and given the aperature bias in the AE, I assume it would adjust the iris before the shutter.

btw- you need to be in manual mode before accessing this feature

Craig Jones
July 7th, 2003, 04:25 PM
Yes, that's how it works for me. Heath said you hold down the exposure wheel until you see an "L". I never see an "L". I get the "+/- 0" which indicates exposure lock but that's it. I'm curious now if there are functional differences between the HD1 and HD10.

Paul Mogg
July 7th, 2003, 04:29 PM
Heath, can you elaborate on what Ken told you to do with the exposure wheel? To me the most important thing is to be locked at 1/30th shuttter speed as I love that filmic look. But I've found that use of the EC wheel on the side is only available in the AE mode, which doesn't allow for locking the shutter.
On the ghosting you report, I haven't seen any of this, under what circumstances are you seeing it?

Thanks

Joe Russ
July 7th, 2003, 04:37 PM
yah, i have the hd1 and you can do the same thing, but you do lose control of shutter (which is still auto), and shutter is most important to me as well. you just press the exposure button so that the +0/-0 whatever appears on the left, and once its where you like, you hold in the exposure dial for a second or so and the L appears, but, the exposure is locked but the shutter speed is free to do whatever it pleases.....not good at all.

Heath McKnight
July 7th, 2003, 04:47 PM
<<<-- Originally posted by Craig Jones : Yes, that's how it works for me. Heath said you hold down the exposure wheel until you see an "L". I never see an "L". I get the "+/- 0" which indicates exposure lock but that's it. I'm curious now if there are functional differences between the HD1 and HD10. -->>>

You adjust the +/- 0, then hold the Exposure button/wheel down for a couple of seconds until the L shows up next to the +/- 0. That locks it.

heath

Heath McKnight
July 7th, 2003, 04:49 PM
<<<-- Originally posted by Joe Russ : yah, i have the hd1 and you can do the same thing, but you do lose control of shutter (which is still auto), and shutter is most important to me as well. you just press the exposure button so that the +0/-0 whatever appears on the left, and once its where you like, you hold in the exposure dial for a second or so and the L appears, but, the exposure is locked but the shutter speed is free to do whatever it pleases.....not good at all. -->>>

That wasn't happening to me on the HD10 after I locked it...I'll do more tests tonight to make sure. Sorry I can't get any clips up...

heath

Joe Russ
July 7th, 2003, 05:12 PM
yer saying on the hd10 the shutter speed can be set AND the exposure? cos on mine when i set the exposure the aperature or the shutter (whichever you had set before) flashes for a second and then disapears....and then its right back to whatever shutter speed it chooses on the fly

Michael Hyun
July 7th, 2003, 05:25 PM
joe,

no you cannot select the shutter speed and the aperature at the same time. You can however, lock both of them in the positions they were by using the exposure lock.

As I noticed that both 1/30th and 1/60th are relatively "sticky" in that if you select either, they tend to stay there while the AE cycles throught the fstops, I belive that once you get ur desired settings (after u selected either 1/30th or 1/60th, use steve's method of pushing S/A repeatedly while adjusting lighting ), then you can lock both the shutter speed and fstop in that setting. refer to previous posts for more detail.

If you want higher shutter speeds, you can use the sports setting while adjusting and locking exposure.

A kind of tedious fix, but I believe all will be well.

Craig Jones
July 7th, 2003, 05:37 PM
This is getting more interesting. I've verified that the HD1 does show the L as Heath describes. My understanding was that the +/-0 indicator locked the exposure but I guess not.

Pressing the exposure contol enables it, up and down adjusts it, and L actual does (locks) it. Is that accurate?