View Full Version : Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull Discussion - SPOILER ALERT!


Mathieu Ghekiere
February 14th, 2008, 08:48 AM
Just saw the trailer of the fourth Indiana Jones movie!

I'm a huge fan of Spielberg, and I thought the trailer really looked good!
Only thing I didn't like was the one-liner "I thought that was closer", broke the illusion very much, and was a bit too cartoonish. Loved all the rest!

Sean Skube
February 14th, 2008, 12:54 PM
There were a lot of shots in that trailer that I hope are still WIPs, cause they looked really fake. Like when they are driving along the cliffside, it looks very much like set lighting and a CG background. Same when they are all running out of the temple. I don't know why they don't just shoot them outside instead of trying to mimic saylight in a studio.

Carl Middleton
February 14th, 2008, 01:05 PM
Because they'd really hate to have hundreds of people show up to film... and it be raining. Cheaper to do CGI and lighting than risk missing production days.

Terry Lee
February 14th, 2008, 01:29 PM
I'm not so sure money is an object when you have such a popular movie at stake. Although, Beowolf was a very well known and popular epic that got destroyed by CGI...In my opinion anyway..

Kelly Goden
February 14th, 2008, 07:19 PM
At first I wondered where the original music went..I heard synthesizer and freaked out...lol

I cant say i was blown over. Will probably be diverting but...
I dont trust Lucas...and its his story. Amusing to see the warehouse, and I like the 50s style evil Russian costumes. Very retro serial-esque.

I assume they will improve the effects as it gets closer to release date.
For something like this you would think they might go more traditional but it costs so much more.

Raiders was around $20 million to make and it had a lot of big sets and location shooting with 100s of extras.

Charles Papert
February 14th, 2008, 08:10 PM
So I was watching the sequence where Indy swings through the air in the warehouse frame by frame to suss out if it was face-replacement CGI or actually Harrison Ford doing the stunts, and I saw something rather surprising: check out the frontal shot of him swinging through the air where the camera is mounted on the jeep. The last ten frames or so reveal a gaggle of flags and c-stands! They are motion blurred but clearly recognizable--the light source behind them that is keying Harrison is pretty apparent (you can just glimpse the back of the unit in the final two frames of the shot). Obviously the shot was meant to be cut before all this was revealed.

Just a bit surprising that this snuck through the QC at Lucasfilm...

(oh no, have I suddenly turned into one of those guys who pore over movies frame-by-frame so that they can post in the "goofs" section on IMDB? The ones with clearly too much time on their hands? Really, I just stumbled across this; honest!)

Richard Alvarez
February 14th, 2008, 08:36 PM
You're right Charles - you do have too much time on your hands! My son says he heard a review that said Harrison Ford does MORE of his own stunts on this than on Raiders. Heck, he's only sixty something, right? Still a young pup.

"Not as easy as it used to be."

I think the whole feeling of the film will be one "I'm too old for this" joke after another - fun for guys like me who are still doing stunts on horseback in their fifties... but probably boring for the younger set. In fact, the main audience might just be baby boomers, instead of kids. That's a thought.

Kelly Goden
February 14th, 2008, 10:17 PM
I think the whole feeling of the film will be one "I'm too old for this" joke after another - fun for guys like me who are still doing stunts on horseback in their fifties... but probably boring for the younger set.

**it seems like there will be some of that--although they have the Transformers kid in there--maybe as something for the teens.

The government warehouse stretching into infinity looks awfully familiar.

Paul Mailath
February 15th, 2008, 05:48 AM
I found a script of Indi 4 some years ago while trawling the internet - It introduced his son. It'll be interesting to see how close it was, certainly was a great read at the time.

Afton Grant
February 15th, 2008, 06:55 AM
The last ten frames or so reveal a gaggle of flags and c-stands!

Yes, good catch indeed. And now we all know the term for when flags and c-stands assemble! Just bustin' chops, Chas. Happy b'day.

Kelly Goden
February 15th, 2008, 12:27 PM
I found a script of Indi 4 some years ago while trawling the internet - It introduced his son. It'll be interesting to see how close it was, certainly was a great read at the time.

**is that Indiana Jones and the Sons of Darkness?
It was an interesting idea. The skeleton of a the first evil man or something.
And I could have sworn soviets were the villains in that too.

Paul Mailath
February 15th, 2008, 07:21 PM
**is that Indiana Jones and the Sons of Darkness?



Yep! - I just checked. Good script, I could hear the music starting up as I read :-)

Kelly Goden
May 22nd, 2008, 04:04 PM
Bump.
Surprised no one has commented on it yet.

I have yet to see it.

Mathieu Ghekiere
May 22nd, 2008, 04:18 PM
I am the original poster of the thread and seen it in the meanwhile, in a midnight screening on the night of tuesday to wednesday.
And to be honest: really dissapointed...

To copy my own reviews of the Spielberfilms forum:

"yep, Indy 4 was definately a dissapointment for me too. Went in with good expactations, but not impossible expectations.

So:
- no cleverness and no imagination or inventivness in the action sequences.
They just weren't good or special (yeah, just punch someone, and move on. No sense of danger. The stairs are dissapearing!!!! Don't worry, just fall down in the water and move on).

- a little bit too much CGI

- humor wasn't always very good, although the snake scene was hilarious!

- the Macgufin?? You couldn't follow the plot anymore! Like others said, they go from here to there, but you don't get a sense of moving forward.

- bad script... characters underused.

Indy4 had some good things going for it, but it's hard for me to believe that they really thought this script was so fantastic..."

Another, more detailled review:

"Hi,

I've went to the midnight screening of Indy 4, finally yesterday.
I've inserted SPOILER and END OF SPOILER warnings beneath because I don't know how to put text invisible here.
Beneath I've put a conclusion without spoilers. If you want to skip all the spoilers, you can just look at the conclusion.

Okay, to break it down simple:

THINGS THAT I LIKED
- The acting is good over the whole line.
- The jungle chase scene (no it doesn't look plastic... nowhere!)
- The ants! Really freaky and nice visual fx
- The winks to Last Crusade were genius!
- WARNING SPOILER COMING
The scene were Marion tells Indy he's Mutt's father is hilarious, and the way how they handled Indy's fear of snakes is sooooo immensly funny!
- I quite liked the saucer theme. I wasn't fond of the idea before the movie, but it's handled pretty well, and the scene with all the skulls merging and is pretty nice and scary.
- The ending, with the hat... nice shot!
END OF SPOILERS
- Indy still is Indy... for the most part. The grin of Ford in the first shot we see of Indy is priceless!

THINGS I DIDN'T LIKE
WARNING PRETTY MANY SPOILERS BENATH
- Some CGI... It felt a little bit much for an Indiana Jones movie sometimes, although it never went completely overboard. But the monkeys weren't neccissary.
- The waterfall scene... As in Temple of Doom, it was too much over the top.
Indy can go over the top, but this...
- Some scenes didn't feel Indy-like. The interrogation scene in the beginning, after the opening? Indy didn't feel too much like Indy there, also how it was shot, and lit. Normally Spielberg can bring life to these simple scenes, but this one was very dry, you really felt Spielberg didn't care much for this scene.
- Some cuts were different, and better in the trailer ("Always glad to help" is much funnier in the trailer then it is in the movie).
- Some things were badly written... The scene were Indy suddenly says that HE will return the skull because "it asked him"... Just didn't fit, and wasn't build up good.

- This is a huge factor for me: I really had the feeling that they have rushed the movie... I know, they took 19 years, but I the action scenes aren't as good as they were in the original trilogy, especially in cleverness. To try to explain it, because English isn't my native tongue: in an original Indiana Jones movie, you had an action sequence, something went wrong, then good, then wrong again, then even more wrong, even more wrong, and you were losing breath by the minute! (especially, for me, the Tank sequence in Last Crusade). Here, some action scenes are just too rushed and weren't as witty scripted. For instance: in The Last Crusade, when Indy and his father are tied up, they try to burn the rope with a firelighter. Then the whole house burns, then they get loose, but nazi's are behind them. Then they find the boat, but go with the motorcycles, and suddenly someone goes towards them, but Indy grabs a stick like a knight. It's just very clevery written. Here, for instance, in the opening scene, Indy 'just' punches a guy and takes his pistol. (Okay, where he run in the warehouse, once he was 'loose' was nice). In the beginning of the jungle sequence, they 'just' punch a guy, take a knife and cut loose. It isn't as imaginitive as the old ones.
Compare the old motorcycle scene with the new one... This one could have been great, but fell too short. It didn't build or so, just a quick chase, that ended very suddenly. Then for instance, the scene with the stairs at the end. Such a great things, the stairs that dissapear, in the circle! And what happens? Nothing imaginitive, they just fall down in the water, get up again, and go further...
That made me feel, personally, Spielberg rushed some of these sequences.
The ants scene, and some parts of the jungle scene were nice though.
- The action scene with Ford in the fridge, was nice, but tooo much also, and a bit too CGI too.
- I liked the climax, but I thought Cate Blanched should of suffered an even more horrible death.
END OF SPOILERS
-The music was good, but didn't has such good themes or wasn't as present as in the old movies. Maybe I'll like it better on the album. Sometimes, Williams' scores have to grow on me.


CONCLUSION
I enjoyed Indiana Jones 4. Some parts were genius and some winks to other movies were very nice..
But it could have been much much better:

Some scenes aren't greatly written. My biggest problem is that many action scenes aren't always as imaginative as they could have been, and feel too rushed.
And in comparison with the old movies, this time the MacGuffin is way too complicated. In the old movies you could get it very quickly; the lost ark, hidden there. The stones, for the village. The holy grail who gives eternal life. Here it was sooo many talk talk about it, that sometimes you almost lost track of what it was that they were searching. But the basic idea of the MacGufin, and the climax, were pretty good.

So, Indy 4 is nice! I will look at it again, and again. Indy still is Indy.
But it could have been much better and much more exiting to my opinion.

Feedback welcome."

Tom Vandas
May 23rd, 2008, 03:21 AM
the MacGuffin is way too complicated.

Good review, Mathieu. Regarding the MacGuffin, I would simply add: I just didn't care...

I'd heard rumors of mixed reviews from the pre-screenings and I went yesterday with the expectation to at least enjoy a Spielberg film; walking out I wasn't sure I actually saw one. Indy 4 felt very paint-by-numbers to me, anyone could have directed it.

I'm left feeling entirely neutral about the film, which is vaguely disappointing.

Michael Chenoweth
May 23rd, 2008, 11:16 AM
Here's a reply I posted over at DVXuser

Okay - just got back from seeing it for the 2nd time. Probably the one time I've seen the same movie twice in 12 hours. First with my buddy from high school whom I sluffed with to see Last Crusade and second to take my wife.

I've got a lot of mixed feelings as Raiders was THE film that made me want to work in the film industry, first as an fx artist, gravitated to camera / editing and now is ending up with screenwriting ;)

Overall I have to say the second time around was much better and I watched it for pure entertainment, hokey as it is and while being less critical the second time around, it made for a more enjoyable experience.

Was it sequel that should have been made. I'd have to say no, but 19 years later, it is what it is and they could have done a much worse job with it.

Where to start... I'd have to blame Uncle George "The Flanneled One" at the get go. He just doesn't know when to say when. He's run the SW franchise into a complete farse of its original self and the same can be said with Indy 4, although not nearly as awful as the SW prequels were. You can thank Spielberg for that one. I liken George Lucas to a crazy old inventor. The kindof guy that comes up with some really great and briliant ideas but once the idea is on paper, you kindly take him by the hand and lead him to a closet where you can lock him away during the next few months / years or he'll just get in the way and ruin things more. I've done video work for 3 inventors and they're all cut from the same cloth. In fact I think Harold Oxley in Indy 4 was a character based on Lucas. That's about how wacked out he is at this point and I think I can safely say most of the more silly and far out ideas / scenes in the new film are a result of his not being locked long enough in the closet.

Spielberg... I still think the guy is a great and talented director. There isn't anyone that has worked with him that would say otherwise. Spielberg was born to direct. Aside from AI and War of the Worlds, I have enjoyed every one of Spielberg's films, but like the best of the best, everyone has a bad story or two in them. I don't think Spielberg purposely set out to ruin Indy 4 but I feel that there was a sense of "Let's play again this one last time." It was very obvious that this was a fun film for them to do and very tongue-in-cheek, however I think it's a sign that Spielberg has indeed grown up and adventure to him now is not the adventure we grew to love in the 80's. I still think he has some wonderful films left in his career and I'm very much looking for ward to Lincoln being one of his greatest landmark films yet to come.

Ford... Ya gotta love the guy still. He's cantakerous and officially a senior citizen but he played Indy as a 65 year old and did a pretty good job with it. I think Ford's biggest problem was that the script just wasn't as polished as it needed to be. But Indy was back in character and Ford after 19 years did a wonderful job in the role. We'll see what's to come, I about laughed myself silly after watching his last fight in Firewall. Indy 4 redeemed him a bit regardless of his age.

Koepp.. I think he's a good screenwriter. Is he a brilliant screenwriter? Not sure I'd go that far but he's got a good track record for the most part. His biggest problem script IMO, War of the Worlds, another Spielberg film. Another I didn't like? Lost World: Jurassic Park, another Spielberg film. Both of them lacked any serious character development and became mostly forgotten films. I see the same with Indy 4. There's so much going on there just isn't time to really develop the new and returning characters like I feel he should of. The Russians were as wooden as any Indy baddie and there was just so much mixed about it really came across muddled by the time it was shot and edited. I will give Dave Koepp the benefit of the doubt though and that's the fact that this script has been in more hands than a cheap whore and isn't really any fault of the writer more the guy who kept passing it around until HE felt it was right and that was George Lucas who hasn't been a good storyteller since about 1981. After that, the third parts of both the SW and Indy trilogies were very much a retelling of the first in the series. A sign that he was running out of material fast.

Cinematography - I have great admiration for Janusz Kaminski and have had the priviledge to interview him. He's a brilliant DP and he knows his craft. I don't believe he was the right artist to paint this Indy canvas though. It just didn't fit. Nor was it his best work and I feel he wasn't quite in his element with this film. He and Steven very much have a non-verbal and very visual way of communicating on set and I think that relationship will keep Janusz shooting everyone of Steven's films regardless of if he's the right man for the job or not.

As for the other issues, effects, goofy scenes... you can pretty much just put Lucas to blame for those. I think ILM is not near the powerhouse they used to be and most of their stuff now looks inferior to many of the other post / fx houses now.

Well.. that's all I have to say about that. All in all, it was a fun, popcorn flick and sure a nice change from all of the recent more crappy sequels to other franchises.

cheno

Dylan Couper
May 23rd, 2008, 11:31 AM
Hey guys, I've changed the title of this thread, since the movie it out now. It's open for spoiler discussion.

I saw it yesterday, didn't expect too much and enjoyed it.

Except for the whole CE3K ending... What the f--k....

Kelly Goden
May 24th, 2008, 08:41 PM
Wow
I am not sure I want to see it based on all the reviews I have read. I was planning to see it for years. Lucas almost ruined Star Wars for me and I was a BIG BIG BIG fan of IJ movies-saw them a few times in the theater(and still have tons of merchandise lol). I especially liked the religious artifacts and fantasy mixed in with stunts.

From the moment I heard of the aliens I didnt like it. Its an an odd mix for an archaeologist and even if its in keeping with 50s serials it has been done and done and done(Alien VS predator, X Files you name it).
In fact it was said that Lucas had the idea since the early 90s and Ford and Spielberg disliked it--but Lucas wouldnt give up and it got to the point where they either did his story or nothing.
That wasnt a good sign.

I kind of figured Spielberg would be full into it, but I agree with the sentiments about Spielberg "growing up." I think its a conscious decision on his part not to be fully engaged in these summer movies anymore. Leaving things somewhat sloppy(LW's unloaded guns, ship crews vanishing without a trace).
Starting with the Lost World(although I felt it was very much like a matinee serial adventure and John Williams score had a 60s jungle vibe to it--plus some dark humor and nasty irony I never associated with Spielberg.).

LW, AI, War or the Worlds and Minority Report were all darker in tone that what he used to do.

Its too bad. Mask of Zorro had some great old fashioned stunts and energy and wasnt Spielberg a producer on that?


I think I'll leave it at Last Crusade and IJ riding off into the sunset.

"Ive got a lot of fond memories with that dog."

Mathieu Ghekiere
May 24th, 2008, 09:05 PM
The alien story on itself isn't what's wrong with the movie. They could've made a good Indy movie of it.

It's the script, the execution, the level of humor, the interaction between characters, the dialogue, the action sequences, the CGI, the structure...
THAT'S what's wrong with Indy4.

Dennis Stevens
May 31st, 2008, 08:18 AM
Cate Blanchett talking to her agent:

CB: So, is there one line that sums up my character?
Agent: Yes, you shake your fist and yell 'Jones!!!!!!!'
CB: Uh-huh. So will there be a dialog coach to perfect my Russian accent?
Agent: Well, Spielberg is sending you all the Rocky and Bullwinkle episodes on dvd. He wants to pay attention to Natasha.
CB: OK.... right. So there are scads of money involved, right?
Agent: Scads and scads.
CB: Fine, I"m in.

Richard Alvarez
May 31st, 2008, 08:45 AM
Got around to seeing it.

It's marginally better than "Temple of Doom".

That's the best thing about it.


Script was really awkward. Lots and lots of forced exposition. Had to jam too much 'well, here's what's happened in the last twenty years' into a couple of lines of dialogue. I think they could have actually left some of that out, given us a couple of cryptic inferences - Simply calling him "Colonel Jones" and leaving us to guess the rest - that sort of thing.

CG was okay, not great.

Inside jokes aplenty, enough to keep all fanboys happy.

Ford was terrific being Ford. God bless him.

Frankly, I don't think there was enough 'meat' to the plot. I could have done without the extended jungle chase/fight. I mean, we already had one running fight scene on the motorcycle... so the signature action sequence had already been addressed.

I had fun, enjoyed it, I'm sure it'll make a boatload of money. Good on them.

Andy Graham
June 2nd, 2008, 03:02 PM
Just saw it today, i'm a big fan of indie and i did my absolute best to like this film.....i looked the other way with the atom bomb fridge survival but they lost me with mutt swinging through the trees with a monkey army. And by the time i got to the end and saw the alien flying saucer i was just so dissapointed with how much cgi they used not to mention the ludacris stunts and story line.....no doubt Lucas pouring poison into spielbergs ear.

Andy.

Jeremiah Rickert
June 5th, 2008, 03:38 AM
Just saw it today, i'm a big fan of indie and i did my absolute best to like this film.....i looked the other way with the atom bomb fridge survival but they lost me with mutt swinging through the trees with a monkey army. And by the time i got to the end and saw the alien flying saucer i was just so dissapointed with how much cgi they used not to mention the ludacris stunts and story line.....no doubt Lucas pouring poison into spielbergs ear.

Andy.

Actually I think you're wrong on this one. Lucas' original concept was shot down. Koepp is Spielberg's guy, and the "Fridge" scene was something from an early draft of Back To The Future where the time machine was a Fridge instead of a DeLorean and they needed a nuke to power it for the return trip.

Car racing? That was Lucas-esque, but the prairie dogs and monkeys? Spielberg all the way. And even the CGI was "Spielbergian" rather than Lucas-style. The whole ending had so much CGI (even the wedding looked like it had been color corrected to death) it reeked of Spielberg. (think about how War of the Worlds and even Minority Report are so desaturated and grainy). That saucer didn't look like a Lucas saucer.

(I'm not a Lucas lover by any stretch...I walked out of Phantom Menace with a hollow feeling in my gut, but you gotta give the credit where it's due here). Spielberg was the director.

Andy Graham
June 5th, 2008, 04:48 AM
Fair enough , i was just guessing considering lucas has ruined star wars for me with those abominations. Im trying to erase the kingdom of the crystal skull from my memory........indie ended when he rode into the sunset with sean connery.

I think they're systematically destroying every film i loved when i was a kid, they're gonna soil the lost boys and i heard he was talking about doing a goonies 2

Spielberg......step away from the goonies

Someone has spiked the water in hollywood.

Andy.