Just a naive question here but it seems that though the fujinon standard lens is great for broadcast TV...

It is not so for indie filmmakers who are bending over backwards to make 35mm adapters work. I want the pmw-ex1 but I don't care about servo zoom just great dof.

How long until Sony releases the ex1 body only???

I think they would keep this for a more expensive camera with a 35mm sensor and do it right.

Again this may be a naive viewpoint but th 3 1/2" cmos chips on the ex1 seem to give great latitude and low light capibilities - while not as good as the Red's 35mm sensor still pretty damn good IMHO.

With dps wasting time and money with the various lens adapters wouldn't it be smart (and save Sony the cost of their expensive lens) to offer a body only (and compete with the Red more directly right now???

(the 35mm sensor would be great - agreed - but many would love the 3x1/2"cmos model as well)

ymmv...

35mm lenses directly on the 1/2" chips wouldn't work very well. It would give a very significant crop-factor.
But it would be cool to see a camera with some sort of built in special 35mm adapter. I don't see why that shouldn't be possible.

35mm lenses directly on the 1/2" chips wouldn't work very well. It would give a very significant crop-factor.
But it would be cool to see a camera with some sort of built in special 35mm adapter. I don't see why that shouldn't be possible.
Maybe I'm not understanding something Anders (in fact, that is most likely the case)...

But don't the Letus, Brevis, and M2 all work well as adapters for 35mm prime lenses - and thus greater control over dof???

At the same time I don't wish to be a MacGyver with these adapters and for that matter have to deal with the difficulties inherent in using these systems.

2 years before an ex1 without a lens like the z7 i would say.

when that happens you will be able to use a 1/3 " relay that will come out soon for cameras like the jvc hd line and canon xl line and of course the z7. wait if you want but it will be some time.

i use the ex1 and letus all the time and the lens is not a problem. in fact they work like a dream now.

i use the ex1 and letus all the time and the lens is not a problem. in fact they work like a dream now.
Good to know Phil.

It scares me to complicate things and use these 35mm adapters - to spend hours setting them up then to get on a set and have to ditch the whole contraption because now it's not working or having silly problems because the Fujinon has been inadvertently thrown off - focus, zoom or f-stop.

Also, it seems so silly to buy this great camera with a great built on lens and then stick an adapter on to circumvent the Fuji and never use it again.

Finally, I've seen some home rigged 35mm adapters for the HV20 and video (check out Youtube). Ok... I know the HV20 is not even in the same league as the ex1 - but - the dof control is beautiful! And, just on footage shot alone looks much more film-ic than the standard ex1 even with its much smaller cmos chips.

HI Steve

I have shot loads of stuff without adaptors on my ex1 and the image is superb. Go to my blog and look at the entry shooting without adaptors for a 2 minute news piece shot using it clean.

Also on my website is a short using the hv20/ letus combo and the image is amazing. But I can't agree with you saying it produces a more filmic image clean than the ex1. Especially if you are looking at youtube!

Hey Phil...

Your work is so convincing...I ordered a Letus Extreme, yesterday. Thanx for having this stuff up to share, I think...;o)

Bill

Santa Fe eh? What is it like?

I will be there on the 1st March for 3 nights (I arrive quite late I think after flying into LAX then getting a connecting flight). Shooting using your picture profiles you be pleased to know. Do you know director Vanessa Vasser?

What are your latest ones? Surprised by your -40 gamma, you still using that?

Am sure when you get an extreme you will have new ones. One for the LEX and one for without!

Glad my pics have helped you. Communities like this are the lifeblood and the inspiration for many people out there!

HI Steve

I have shot loads of stuff without adaptors on my ex1 and the image is superb. Go to my blog and look at the entry shooting without adaptors for a 2 minute news piece shot using it clean.

Also on my website is a short using the hv20/ letus combo and the image is amazing. But I can't agree with you saying it produces a more filmic image clean than the ex1. Especially if you are looking at youtube!
Hi Phil,

Will take a look at your blog. FWIW, in the past I've seen some of your shots (don't know with or without the adapter) and they looked really great!

But as far as the HV20 is concerned, what I meant is that with a ghetto adapter people are shooting with amazing dof control! I guess dof may NOT be a function of chip size.? (I don't know but it doesn't look like that's the case). More amazing dof control than the ex1 in it's native lens state? I would guess so. And that's why I say it can produce more filmic images (with 35mm adapter and lens, that is)

You cannot just bolt a 35mm lens into a body only Ex. As said before, the crop factor would make all but the widest lenses almost unusable for everyday work.

DoF isn't determined by chip size. It is determined by focal length, f-stop, and distance to subject. In order to get the same field of view on a 1/2 chip compared to a 35mm frame you need to use very short focal length lenses. The shorter the focal length the more deep the DoF is.

Phil...

No, I've abandoned the extreme GAMMA setting. I, now, shoot with black at -8 to -12, GAMMA at 0...it's a lot more forgiving. -40 was too aggressive. The original color matrix settings were very warm. I am now using some matrix settings a little more neutral, but, still more saturated than the factory Sony. The settings are posted on the Profile sticky. I've also played with a CINEMA setting ILO HISAT. Try this if you'd like:MATRIX: Phase:-29, R-G:31, R-B:48, G-R:-2, G-B:-32, B-R:-38, B-G:4. Black is set at -8. COLOR CORRECTION Target Phase at 274, Target width at 0, Level at 91 Phase at -18.

Santa Fe: many people find it much like some smaller european cities, spanish/moorish architectural style. Rural areas are very poor, but, also beautiful. March is a very variable month, weatherwise. The early morning and late afternoon light is breathtaking. Shadows and shapes are all enticing. You'll want to take footage. Sfe sits at the foot of a mountain range...very beautiful riding up to the ski area. Very historic place. Hope you're staying at a nice hotel, downtown has some very nice ones, "Hotel Santa Fe", "Inn of the Anasazi".

You cannot just bolt a 35mm lens into a body only Ex. As said before, the crop factor would make all but the widest lenses almost unusable for everyday work.Of course youe can't. But Sony could release a body only version with a built in optics which would correctly focus the light from any 35mm lens onto the cmos chips similar to the way a 35mm SLR camera works and can use ANY 35mm lens.

Hi Phil,

Will take a look at your blog. FWIW, in the past I've seen some of your shots (don't know with or without the adapter) and they looked really great!

But as far as the HV20 is concerned, what I meant is that with a ghetto adapter people are shooting with amazing dof control! I guess dof may NOT be a function of chip size.? (I don't know but it doesn't look like that's the case). More amazing dof control than the ex1 in it's native lens state? I would guess so. And that's why I say it can produce more filmic images (with 35mm adapter and lens, that is)

DOF control is directly linked to chip size. It is almost impossible to get decent shallow DOF out of any 1/3rd inch chip camera. Be in an HD200, HVX200 or HV20. You can achieve nice shallowish DOF with the EX1 as the image sensor is larger, not as good as a 2/3rd inch lens or a 35mm ground glass. With DOF adaptor all these cameras have the same DOF control

Of course youe can't. But Sony could release a body only version with a built in optics which would correctly focus the light from any 35mm lens onto the cmos chips similar to the way a 35mm SLR camera works and can use ANY 35mm lens.


Sony will let you use their 35mm slr lenses on their Z7 with a crop factor of around X7. Pointless.

What you are suggesting will not affect DOF in the slightest. You aren't changing the sensor size and THAT is where the problem arises.

Sony will let you use their 35mm slr lenses on their Z7 with a crop factor of around X7. Pointless.

What you are suggesting will not affect DOF in the slightest. You aren't changing the sensor size and THAT is where the problem arises.

i think it's the optical target area not the sensor size that affects DOF. the sensor is recording a subarea of the optical target area. another possibility is that i have no idea what i'm talking about. :)

here's a discussion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crop_factor#Secondary_effects

of course a crop factor of 7 is, as you said, pointless.

I believe that's the same.

I know the RED camera going from 4K images down to 2K images gives you less shallow DOF using the same optics.

A lot of people are saying a lot of "true" things, but you don't seem to be talking about the same things at the same time- and thus confusing each other.

Depth of Field (DOF) is dependent on aperture, focal length, distance to subject and sensor size.

Thus with the right combination of the elements you can control you may acheive a very shallow DOF- but you may compromise your camera's performance envelope to accomplish this.

35mm adapters do offer shallower DOF.

They accomplish this by focusing the 35mm lens on a 35mm target, usually a ground glass element, thus making an image with the aspect and the DOF you'd expect in 35mm photography.

Then you focus your lens on the converters target, in essence taking a picture of a picture.

The trade off is that these adapters use up some light- how much varies from one system to another. The Letus 35 Extreme loses 1/2 stop.

In order for a camera with smaller sensors than a 35mm negative to get the same depth of field you have to use an arrangement like this.

Mostly it comes from after market adaptors strapped to the front of your camera's lens. Letus and Red Rock are two such companies.

There is nothing stopping a manufacturer from building such an arrangement into a camera and allowing users to have the option of lenses intended for different sensor sizes.

Getting to a camera like the RED. It has been noted that when shifting from 4K to 2K you get a longer DOF. This is because to accomplish 2K RED uses just the center of the Mysterium sensor.

In essence they change your sensor from a 35mm sized one to a 16mm sized one. In other words, by using just the center of the sensor, they effectively make your sensor smaller.

If you REALLY wanted 2K with 35mm DOF on the RED, then you'd have to get an optical converter for your 35mm lenses. That's why even for 2K post a lot of people shoot RED at 4K then downconvert to 2K in post.

In order to reply to the main topic here...

I don' think an EX series with 35mm lens mounts will happen.

We are far more likely to get a shoulder mounted EX series camera with CMOS sensors and SxS recording that competes with or replaces the existing XDCAM HD units at similar price points.

That means they'll have interchangeable ENG type 1/2" B4 lens mounts.

I also hope to see updated version of the XDCAM Professional Disc based units, with CCD's that manage the same tricks as the EX1's CMOS sensors.

Now, if that happens I expect that we'll see a proliferation of 35mm to 1/2" B4 lens converters offering 35mm DOF. Such beasts have been announced. (http://www.pstechnik.de/en/digitalfilm-pro35-1-2.php) They should be available this summer.

You also have to consider that Sony is expected to deliver an XDCAM HD 2/3" CCD camera recording 4:2:2 at 50Mbps. Using 2/3" broadcast HD lenses that gives you DOF performance similar to 16mm film photography.

Phil...

No, I've abandoned the extreme GAMMA setting. I, now, shoot with black at -8 to -12, GAMMA at 0...it's a lot more forgiving. -40 was too aggressive. The original color matrix settings were very warm. I am now using some matrix settings a little more neutral, but, still more saturated than the factory Sony. The settings are posted on the Profile sticky. I've also played with a CINEMA setting ILO HISAT. Try this if you'd like:MATRIX: Phase:-29, R-G:31, R-B:48, G-R:-2, G-B:-32, B-R:-38, B-G:4. Black is set at -8. COLOR CORRECTION Target Phase at 274, Target width at 0, Level at 91 Phase at -18.

Bill,

It just caught my eye you're using some color correction; in the context of our recent discussion in the presets thread:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost.php?p=828934&postcount=163,

- have you succeded in boosting cyan at 274 deg, with gain at 91?