I'm interested in using a black backdrop for some of my interviews.

Am wondering if this can cause any special lighting issues? Perhaps with lattitude being that I will have truly black in the shot.

Also are some black materials better than others, e.g. black velvet over black cotton?

Thanks for any observations!

I use commando cloth; it's available from any theatrical supply house, and you can have pieces sewed together for whatever size you need. Some equipment rental houses also will have it too--if they rent out a chroma key backdrop, they probably also have a black commando cloth background. Lots of online places have it. Here's one: http://www.sewwhatinc.com/commando.php but you wouldn't want to buy it here because they only sell a full roll. Just look in your yellow pages under theatrical supply.

I have a piece that's about 8 or 9 feet wide, 12 feet long, and I had a full width loop sewn in the top so I can hang it easily from a rod suspended between a couple of C-stands.

I did an all black except for one spotlight shot recently. We had most of the room covered with "super black" theatrical cloth (one that really absorbs light) but we didn't have enough to cover every spot. So I turned the master pedestal down to -15 in the HVX and even dark grey areas went black. You have to be careful with such a low master ped in camera, because whatever is dark will become totally black. The look was great, though.

I purchase all my fabric needs through dazian. they handle all the broadway needs and have the widest loom size I've ever seen.

google them.

I use commando cloth; it's available from any theatrical supply house, and you can have pieces sewed together for whatever size you need. Some equipment rental houses also will have it too--if they rent out a chroma key backdrop, they probably also have a black commando cloth background. Lots of online places have it. Here's one: http://www.sewwhatinc.com/commando.php but you wouldn't want to buy it here because they only sell a full roll. Just look in your yellow pages under theatrical supply.

I have a piece that's about 8 or 9 feet wide, 12 feet long, and I had a full width loop sewn in the top so I can hang it easily from a rod suspended between a couple of C-stands.

Hi Bill:

Hmm...Commando Cloth? Is that really the same stuff as Duvetine? I know Duve is flame resistant/retardant, is the Commando?

I'm just trying to figure out if this just another regional term or if everyone knows Duve as Duve and Commando Cloth is something different?

Best,

Dan

What are you wanting your black background to look like? Are you thinking totally black? This is what I did recently for a shoot... probably a 30x30' room, my subject about 6-8' from the black background with a 1k light as a key. My black background was a black cotton cloth that I bought from a photo background selling on ebay. The key for good blacks are keeping light off the background. A bigger room helps with this as you can get your subject further away from the background.

And yes, I know there is microblocking in this image. It should disappear when I actually color correct the image and push the blacks down a little.

Matthew

Matthew, what is microblocking? I think the image looks great ;.

To all, I'm considering going with a velor/velvet type material b/c I'm assuming it will have better sound absorbing qualities. I'm using an MKH-60 indoors and room reflections can sometimes be a problem.

Matthew, what is microblocking? I think the image looks great ;.

To all, I'm considering going with a velor/velvet type material b/c I'm assuming it will have better sound absorbing qualities. I'm using an MKH-60 indoors and room reflections can sometimes be a problem.

If you look at the left side of the image you will see small blocks of black and not so black blocks. It basically has to do with compression and how badly it handles blacks sometimes.

To be honest, that's not really going to help much with your sound as your subject is facing the opposite direction. The sound is still going to go out from the subject, hit the wall, bounce back towards the subject, be picked up by the mic and then be absorbed a little too late. Your best bet is to build a "box" out of blankets around your interview space. But of course, a lav is FAR better for doing interviews. I use a shotgun also 90% of the time, but it's only for backup.

Matthew

And yes, I know there is microblocking in this image. It should disappear when I actually color correct the image and push the blacks down a little.

Matthew

Sorry for this, but what is microblocking?


[EDIT] SORRRRRY! I didn't see the answer below. My bad. I don't know how to delete a post, otherwise I would.

Dan, all the theatrical supply houses both here and the ones I've seen on line seem to call it commando cloth, same for the film rental houses around here. It's fuzzy, fairly thick, cheap, and fire retardant. I think Duvetine is the same thing but may be a brand name. Last time I bought some it was under 5 bucks a yard, and I believe 54" in width. So it's pretty cheap stuff. The nice thing about getting it from a theatrical supply house is that they usually make stage curtains and have sewing facilities, so you can get it sewn together in whatever sizes you want.

If you look at the left side of the image you will see small blocks of black and not so black blocks. It basically has to do with compression and how badly it handles blacks sometimes.

To be honest, that's not really going to help much with your sound as your subject is facing the opposite direction. The sound is still going to go out from the subject, hit the wall, bounce back towards the subject, be picked up by the mic and then be absorbed a little too late. Your best bet is to build a "box" out of blankets around your interview space. But of course, a lav is FAR better for doing interviews. I use a shotgun also 90% of the time, but it's only for backup.

MatthewSo it's really reflections off the wall behind the camera, not behind the interviewee, that cause the most problems?

May I ask about your lav setup?

BTW, I've listened to the following lavs:

Sanken COS-11
Sennheiser MKE Platinum
DPA (4060 through 4071)

They all sound good, but there is a chest resonance from lavs that drives me crazy. Any ideas on how to correct for it?

I'd also like to use the lav wired, FWTW. Are you going wired or wireless? I have an SD 302 mixer and 744T recorder and G2 wireless.

Thanks much!

So it's really reflections off the wall behind the camera, not behind the interviewee, that cause the most problems?

May I ask about your lav setup?

BTW, I've listened to the following lavs:

Sanken COS-11
Sennheiser MKE Platinum
DPA (4060 through 4071)

They all sound good, but there is a chest resonance from lavs that drives me crazy. Any ideas on how to correct for it?

I'd also like to use the lav wired, FWTW. Are you going wired or wireless? I have an SD 302 mixer and 744T recorder and G2 wireless.

It really depends on what kind of room you are using. If it's got carpet in the room, that makes a WORLD of difference. But I find that a blanket in the direction that the sound first travels helps greatly.

I am using the G2 wireless for interviews. I like the chesty sound a little, because it has far less echo and clearer. You can always in post find the frequencies that's causing it to be so bottom heavy and take it down a little while adding a little to the frequencies that provide clarity.

Matthew

Dan, all the theatrical supply houses both here and the ones I've seen on line seem to call it commando cloth, same for the film rental houses around here. It's fuzzy, fairly thick, cheap, and fire retardant. I think Duvetine is the same thing but may be a brand name. Last time I bought some it was under 5 bucks a yard, and I believe 54" in width. So it's pretty cheap stuff. The nice thing about getting it from a theatrical supply house is that they usually make stage curtains and have sewing facilities, so you can get it sewn together in whatever sizes you want.

Hey Bill:

Thanks for the clarification. I buy it by the 200' roll from FilmTools.

The coolest thing i have come up with is to cut your pieces to length, then measure them, then get some heavy duty white cloth tape and in each corner of the non-camera facing side (the smooth side), write the exact size of the piece. When you are going on a shoot and have a stack of different sized pieces, nothing is more frustrating than grabbing just one or two pieces, then arriving for setup and discovering that you didn't bring big enough pieces. In this way, I always know how big each piece is at a glance when they are stacked all together.

Yes, my boss used to work at Disney and when we needed really large sewn pieces to cover a whole room or stage, we would borrow Disney's huge pieces to cover the whole room. We had some pieces that were huge, it was nice not to have to cobble together from all of our smaller pieces.

Best,

Dan

Hmm...Commando Cloth? Is that really the same stuff as Duvetine? I know Duve is flame resistant/retardant, is the Commando?

Check out http://www.sewwhatinc.com/fab_duvetyne.php . According to the website, they consider commando cloth to be a heavier (16 oz.) version of duvetyne (8 or 12 oz.) that's more durable.

It really depends on what kind of room you are using. If it's got carpet in the room, that makes a WORLD of difference. But I find that a blanket in the direction that the sound first travels helps greatly.
...So in the case of the shot above, hang a blanket behind and to the left of camera; so his voice would be projecting towards the blanket. Correct?

Check out http://www.sewwhatinc.com/fab_duvetyne.php . According to the website, they consider commando cloth to be a heavier (16 oz.) version of duvetyne (8 or 12 oz.) that's more durable.

Jonathan:

Great find, thank you.

Dan

Another ?, does having an all black background effect post color correction? I'm planing on using the same backdrop for filming in different people's homes. So the lighting will vary at least a little and the subjects will vary a lot.

Nonetheless, I want the background to always be black, even after correcting the color. I could see how global color changes could be problematic b/c the black would no longer be black. But perhaps it's easier to "lift" the subject off a uniformly black background and correct their color only? I really don't know.

I'm still very new to all this. So sorry if some of the ?'s seem too basic. THANKS MUCH!

Another ?, does having an all black background effect post color correction? I'm planing on using the same backdrop for filming in different people's homes. So the lighting will vary at least a little and the subjects will vary a lot.

Nonetheless, I want the background to always be black, even after correcting the color. I could see how global color changes could be problematic b/c the black would no longer be black. But perhaps it's easier to "lift" the subject off a uniformly black background and correct their color only? I really don't know.

I'm still very new to all this. So sorry if some of the ?'s seem too basic. THANKS MUCH!

Peter:

I edited a three minute promo yesterday that I shot in Philadelphia last week. I had to intercut with some different footage I shot there in January. The client requested black background for all of the interviews I shot. I had a total of 12 different interviews shot in three locations, all against black.

It was extremely easy to color correct them and there was no problem with consistency. All I did was change framing for each subject and flip the key and side I favored them to for about half of the interviews so I wouldn't have all left side or all right side for the talent.

What you are proposing to do here is about as easy as it gets. To me, shooting black BG is a cop out, I am sick of doing it but when the client can only provide a bare, ugly room, I am traveling and working alone with usually about 30 minutes to unpack and setup everything and I don't have time to create or enhance a decent looking environment, green screen with the ReflecMedia Chroma Flex or black are the only two logical choices.

I have done some black BGs where I composited in pictures, other footage and graphics on the side opposite the talent and that can work nicely too, especially in 16:9.

Good luck,

Dan

Rosebrand.com is a great place to get these kinds of fabrics. As Jonathan noted, there is apparently a difference between commando cloth and dyvetyn. It appears the commando cloth is a 16oz grade and the duvetyn is a 8 oz grade:

http://www.rosebrand.com/subcategory151/fabric-by-type-commando-cloth-duvetyn.aspx

Another ?, does having an all black background effect post color correction? I'm planing on using the same backdrop for filming in different people's homes. So the lighting will vary at least a little and the subjects will vary a lot.

Nonetheless, I want the background to always be black, even after correcting the color. I could see how global color changes could be problematic b/c the black would no longer be black. But perhaps it's easier to "lift" the subject off a uniformly black background and correct their color only? I really don't know.

I'm still very new to all this. So sorry if some of the ?'s seem too basic. THANKS MUCH!

You can always lower the master black in cc and make everything black that is nearly black. This will not much affect any other part of the frame. If you do all your filming with nearly the same kind of "almost black" in the background, you'll be able to achieve the same look in cc.

Rosebrand.com is a great place to get these kinds of fabrics. As Jonathan noted, there is apparently a difference between commando cloth and dyvetyn. It appears the commando cloth is a 16oz grade and the duvetyn is a 8 oz grade:

http://www.rosebrand.com/subcategory151/fabric-by-type-commando-cloth-duvetyn.aspx

If it were me, and I had to transport a LOT of this cloth, I would go for the Duvetyne, simply because the heavier cloth would be a PITA to suspend with A-Frame clamps and or from C-stands. If it were a studio situation or I had proper crew and grip, the Commando cloth will last longer and also function as sound deadening better.

I buy the Duvetyne from FilmTools. A 5' x 200' roll ran me somewhere around $250.00, I think. Wider pieces are more convenient, I always have to do at least two layers to get floor to ceiling but the wider stuff costs a lot more, is heavier and more of a hassle to fold up.

Best,

Dan

Rose brand has 78 inch 12 oz. duvetyne for $9.25 yd.:
http://www.rosebrand.com/product217/Commando-Black-FR.aspx?sid=J84sPG6QJkuw01XCz7TfIFFuaHT%2fWQbDXMbnmU78hzY72JKabRbvvg%3d%3d&cid=151&idx=631&tid=1&info=Commando%2bCloth%2b%2526%2bDuvetyn
(click on the "View Complete Pricing Table" link on the right in the tan box)

118 inches wide, 8 oz. (needs to layers if there is light behind) is $9 a yard. That's almost 10 feet wide.
http://www.emu.com/products/welcome.asp?category=505&

Other theatrical suppliers probably have similar.

Depending on your setup, you might consider rolling the edge in wide hem (3 layers?) and putting some grommets in to you can quickly tie up the cloth using cotton clothes line rope pieces.

I'm interested in using a black backdrop for some of my interviews.

Am wondering if this can cause any special lighting issues?

To me the backlight/hairlight/etc. is critical to make sure there is a 3 dimensional separation from the black background.

Dark clothes and hair will disappear into the black and require significantly for backlight than light colors to get separation.

I'm interested in using a black backdrop for some of my interviews.

I see you are in Sherman Oaks. Rose Brand is close to you, in Sun Valley:
http://www.rosebrand.com/customer/contact-us.aspx

green screen with the ReflecMedia Chroma Flex or black are the only two logical choices

LOL - agree totally. In fact, used ReflecMedia to do a 'black-drop' a few times now.

Have also had requirements for white-out whilst on location. Hired a Gekko ring lamp and used that with my ChromaFlex kit. Worked a treat. For laughs, here's the tests we did:

http://www.mdma.tv/playpen/

It's not an 'in the can' effect and needs garbage mattes, etc. However, this plus the new DVmattePro makes it difficult to resist doing every 'talking head' a chromakey job.

To me the backlight/hairlight/etc. is critical to make sure there is a 3 dimensional separation from the black background.

Dark clothes and hair will disappear into the black and require significantly for backlight than light colors to get separation.Which leads to another ?. I see a lot of times the key and fill lights are daylight balanced but the hair light is tungsten.

Is this the "normal" way of doing things? To me it looks odd to have golden orange light on the hair only.

What do you use?

My key will be a 5600K five blub Wescott Spiderlight. http://www.fjwestcott.com/fjw.com/products/td5.htm

THANKS MUCH everyone for all the help.

Sometimes people will warm up the hair light a little. I often do that with bastard amber. There are all kinds of warming gels, but I just like saying bastard amber.

They all sound good, but there is a chest resonance from lavs that drives me crazy. Any ideas on how to correct for it?


Not to get too far off topic (this is the "Photon Management" forum, after all)... but the way to minimise this is to have the lav close to the clavicle (collar bone). This is the location of least vibration. Any lower, you get the chesty sound. Any higher, you get the throaty sound.

Just place your palm on your chest and move upwards as you speak and you will feel the vibration change.

OK, back to lighting!!!

I see you are in Sherman Oaks. Rose Brand is close to you, in Sun Valley:
http://www.rosebrand.com/customer/contact-us.aspxThanks. BTW, I went to Filmtools in Burbank yesterday to pickup some C-stands and they also carry duvetyne.

But I'll checkout Rose Brand, as I'm very close that area at least once or twice a week.