Bob and Bill, the F900 Standard REC709 setting is up at around 150 IRE, likely the same in the XDCAM graph.
http://www.siliconcine.net/temp/XDCAM_Gamna_Curves.jpg

Alfonso Parra, DoP, has performed F900 tests on the Digital Praxis custom curves. If you look at this image/graph, at 400%, the F900 Standard curve runs up to 150 IRE. The other curves are the Digital Praxis customs, somewhat similar to the EX1's cine gamma, except closer to Cineon log and some ideal for intense post grading and film out. This provides some perspective of what the STD curve values may be, and IMO, can be applied to the EX1 STD curve, as approximations of the X and Y values. The EX1 is after all part of the CineAlta family.
http://www2.alfonsoparra.com/php/images/content/167/049.jpg

This might be a stupid question, but, isn't the implication that the cam is more light sensitive in STD mode?
Furthermore, highlights will appear to clip in any NLE that can't handle IRE values over 100-110%?
Or conversely, crush the blacks if the highlights are exposed properly?

Bill, I looked at your WFM wedges, thanks. When looking at Alfonso's wedges, they appear exposed 18% grey wedge to 50 IRE on the WFM, and then observe how the different curves responded to shadow and highlight detail.
http://www2.alfonsoparra.com/php/ver/structure_all.php?s=3&n=3&id=134&ln=eng

The image recorded is not always appealing, however, in post there should be the most amount of detail preserved to extract, however, an F900 and the EX1 have different codecs and data rates, and one will be limited by how robust the EX1, in HQ mode, holds up, and how far your can exploit it in post, if one makes extreme presets, similar to Cineon log curve.

My EX1 arrives next week, so lots of testing to follow, in due course.

Exactly!! ;o)

This is becoming funny... I know you guys don't regard me high as a camea operator, but I have just finished my next couple of tests, and have a couple more surprizes for you:

1. Even with cine curves, at the moment EX1 starts clipping (and you cannot totally avoid it), the resulting colour patches are awful to watch (see the left grab: as if the blue colour resosution was insufficient). In the right grab, I was those tiny fractions of a stop on the safe side, and the sky exposed better.

2. I'm not sure, but I guess I have found the vignetting problem source; do you recognize the upper right corner thingy in the right grab? - well, it is the ND filter not quite snapped in...What a silly construction, and why no knob to rotate it quick and precisely?

Anyway, even though I really appreciate your experience and knowledge, I can now state it with 100% certainty: the highs compression algorhitm on the EX1 is faulty. You're simply wrong saying that all cameras do that; my V1E doesn't do that - period.

Piotr, I don't judge you on camera ability. I too have my EX1 learning to come.

I loaded those frames in PS and reduced the saturation value to -50, then the trees and sky don't stand out so much. Perhaps the funk is a combination of these particular settings, coupled with exposure? Hisat on, perhaps try another?

Piotr, I believe what their saying is that the EX1 has more latitude; therefore, how it rolls into over exposure and how it's perceived is going to be different, than say your V1E.

I'm not knocking your opinion, it's just that you seem to be the only one concerned with this.

I've taken great day light shots with plenty of sky holding decent latitude allowing good exposure for the bottom half of the image.

Piotr, I believe what their saying is that the EX1 has more latitude; therefore, how it rolls into over exposure and how it's perceived is going to be different, than say your V1E.

I'm not knocking your opinion, it's just that you seem to be the only one concerned with this.

I've taken great day light shots with plenty of sky holding decent latitude allowing good exposure for the bottom half of the image.

Sure, the problem is that you have no real benefit of this latitude: here is the grab perhaps some half-a-stop less exposed that image54 in my previous post; this is how the sky really looked (well, almost: there still is a single, unnatural patch of light blue there). Why no gradation between the blue tones, but the abrupt change in colour? This simply shouldn't happen - nobody will tell me one of these two grabs is poorly exposed (if anything, perhaps slightly off-focus, as it was a walking shot). And when you watch those changes in the actual video, it looks even worse because the patches appear and disappear constantly all over the sky.

Saturation, over.....

Saturation, over.....

Yes, it's all with Hisat matrix. But the Standard one looks muddy - and again: on the V1E, when I choose Cine1 gamma and Cinecolour on, I have everything at least as saturated as with the Hisat on the EX1, but still no patches when slightly overexposed.

I'm going to give the Cine matrix with one of Cine gammas the last try tomorrow.

Piotr,
Are you believing that the closely paced branches in the sky view do not reduce some of the sensor illumination at those given points?

I believe Alexander and a couple others have mentioned this. I'm not sure why you think it should not. Also, since I'm away from the office, I did not bring the image in and analyze it, but the sky sure looks over exposed in some locations. I know you doing the over exposure on purpose, but I'm not sure where this is going....

Piotr, if you think there's a problem with your camera you may want to return it for exchange. If you feel it's across all EX1 cameras, I suggest asking for a refund if they will still honor it.

I know you doing the over exposure on purpose, but I'm not sure where this is going....

Exactly Thomas - I am over and under exposing on purpose, to learn the new camera limitations and discover its strengths. Where is it going? Well, I thought I said many times: I'm trying to find a way to avoid abrupt colour changes (nasty patches) where the camera is just on the verge of, or slightly crossing, the clipping boundary. So far I haven't succeeded; I agree that tree foliages are enough to limit the amount of light just like some sort of ND filtering, but the resulting patches are washed out of any colour gradation, as if the colour resolution was insufficient (I'd call it near-clipping banding). The V1 doesn't exhibit this, so please don't tell me it's normal.

Piotr, if you think there's a problem with your camera you may want to return it for exchange. If you feel it's across all EX1 cameras, I suggest asking for a refund if they will still honor it.

Too late - I've just sold my V1E:)

Seriously though, I still hope I'll find a solution. BTW I am trying to be as neutral in this topic as possible, even though have been attacked a couple of times myself as a "unfuctional" operator, so let's just forget it for a while.

Nobody even commented on the vignetting caused by the ND filter - could it be something quite separate from the infamous vignetting problem?

Piort:

To get you out of this rut, let the past go and start afresh like this, then see if you have same problem:

1. DO NOT USE STD curves. They are not made for the likes of us. There are just there for comparison or to add some bells et. Also with the CINE curves knee is automatic so that goes out of the equation.

2. Try CINE4 it gives most detail in the blacks.

3. Choose HiSAT but leave all other settings flat.

4. DONT EXPOSE BY THE HISTOGRAM UNLESS YOU HAVE CALBRATED IT. On my camera it grossly over exposes even when the LCD look reasonable. YOU MUST USE ZEBRAS.

4. DO NOT USE ZEBRA 2, it is set at 100% which is way too high for this camera when in good light. Set your Zebra1 to 95 and expose so you see no zebras, yes NO ZEBRAS, in the sky.

Then tell us what you see in your NLE.

Bad advice, Stevens. I disagree with practically everything you've said.
I believe the STD curves may not look too nice on the VF, but, they capture the most detail; and, it's up to the editor to bring that out in post.
On the contrary, I've found that exposing to 100% zebra still shows detail in the white. I've never seen another camera work like this....100% zebra blows the hilights completely out on other cameras, but not the ex1. In fact, I've begun to shoot with my TLCS levels set to +0.5.
The histogram is calibrated for the capabilities of the camera CMOS, not necessarily the 0-100IRE range of an NLE. CINE3 shows the most detail in the blacks, but, at the expense of the middle grays and hi's. CINE4 is the best compromise for a high dynamic range scene. Cine 3 works for scenes without as much hi-lite, But CINE1 works very well for low dyanmic range.
The factory matrix, even in hisat, is off in the greens, cyan and blues. TC2 color matrix resets for more realistic colors in all modes.

Ravens:
As for you liking STD to give your more detail in post you forget that the sort of processing the CINE gammas do is much better than doing the same adjustments in post. The closer you can get to the look you want in the camera is always best.

As for 100% Zebras, all I can say is on my camera, using the CINE gammas, 100% Zebra blows a lot out. Now I know the camera claims to record to 108% and I do see that in my NLE, but my camera gets no detail in this range and is fully white blown, at anything over 95.

Michael,
i have to agree with Bill. In the real world of video production it is impossible to choose to shoot with nothing over 100% especially exteriors.
Thjat's just a fact of life in my world.

It may be that the cine gammas on this camera are the only viable option, but they shouldn't be and if theym are its a significant flaw that should be corrected. Cine gammas do a lot of compression which may or may not work for your shooting style and the subject but the camera should not be artifacting under normal gammas.
I'm going to look into this this afternoon and if I learn anything I'll post.
Lenny levy

Bob and Bill, the F900 Standard REC709 setting is up at around 150 IRE, likely the same in the XDCAM graph.
http://www.siliconcine.net/temp/XDCAM_Gamna_Curves.jpg

Alfonso Parra, DoP, has performed F900 tests on the Digital Praxis custom curves. If you look at this image/graph, at 400%, the F900 Standard curve runs up to 150 IRE. The other curves are the Digital Praxis customs, somewhat similar to the EX1's cine gamma, except closer to Cineon log and some ideal for intense post grading and film out. This provides some perspective of what the STD curve values may be, and IMO, can be applied to the EX1 STD curve, as approximations of the X and Y values. The EX1 is after all part of the CineAlta family.
http://www2.alfonsoparra.com/php/images/content/167/049.jpg


I'm going to have to ask the obvious question. If 110% is the point of digital clipping how does the camera record 150%?
I think I can understand how this in fact works but if so aren't we way outside Rec709?
If that's the case then NLE's such as Vegas are going to get the conversion to RGB wrong. Even more worrying is how that holds up in an 8 bit pipeline and recording system.
Might be interesting to hookup a 10bit scope to the HD SDI port.
Would I be way off the mark in suggesting that some of these gamma curves could be optimised purely for the 10bit HD SDI output and not used when recording with the 8bit XDCAM codec at all. I know trying to get something from Cineon into 8 bit can be difficult with banding problems pretty easy to come across.

Too late - I've just sold my V1E:)

Seriously though, I still hope I'll find a solution. BTW I am trying to be as neutral in this topic as possible, even though have been attacked a couple of times myself as a "unfuctional" operator, so let's just forget it for a while.

Nobody even commented on the vignetting caused by the ND filter - could it be something quite separate from the infamous vignetting problem?

When I first got my hands on the camera I commented that the ND filter control was not good. That you've managed to only partially engage a filter comes as no surprise to me at all. The ND filter control and the power switch need a lot of care and attention in use. Yes I agree, not well done at all.

Bob: I don't understand this 150IRE either. I think we must be comparing apples to pears. When you hit 108% on the EX1 it gives you warning telling you to back off?

Anyway I'm out now to do some more shots to test what Bill is saying, but I hear so many different stories here I am actually being the think these cameras might all be different????

Bob, indeed, how does it record 150%? I can only interepret the graph as a trajectory, in turn that is how narrow the STD REC709 range is? As for other curves being up to 110%, I myself do not understand how there can be detail if 100 IRE is white 255,255,255.

Bob, do you have any idea what the X value on the graph represents, going up to 600 before stop publishing?

Regarding hooking the camera up to an external 10-bit scope, via HD-SDI port, I was considering a good comparison would be do to this, then with the same camera setup, say, locked off tripood, record to SxS card in HQ mode, then play back and compare WFM display from live 10-bit to the 8-bit recorded file, the playing back out of the camera being 8-bit embedded in a 10-bit stream. My HD monitor has a WFM, so I might try this and compare, when I receive my EX1 in due course. This method was what I had in mind to ensure the 8-bit recorded settings are not misleading visually, because of the 10-bit 4:2:2 uncompressed monitoring direct from the HD-SDI port that I will be using, when practical to do so.

If I had to guess at an answer, and I AM just guessing, 110% is somewhat of an arbitrary cutoff based on the available bandwidth at 8-bit (bit depth)and allowing a bit(no pun intended) for headroom. With 32 bit floating point processing, the bandwidth really isn't greater, just greater resolution within the available bandwidth, certainly not what 10-bit (bit depth)would get you in terms of bandwidth. In conventional NTSC, IRE100 is not 255, it's 235. In fact, IRE108 is RGB255. And the RGB0-255 quanta are derived from the 256 (1.6 million discreet values) values that 8-bit allows. If one were to go to 10-bit, for example, significantly more quanta are possible...1024?

Then again, IRE 0-100 is a non-dimensional number. With greater mathematical precision and bit depth, one could fit a lot more quanta in the IRE scale. Much in the same way that the FCC keeps increasing the number of available frequencies even tho' the bandwidth of available frequencies remains unchanged. Then, a camera that can see IRE 0-150 simply needs to be remapped into 0-100 for present day NL editors, provided the quanta packets are smaller, anyway.

The fundamental problem, I think, is NOT the camera, but, the software we all have to process the recorded data.
But, honestly, I'm just whistling in the dark, here.

Here's an interesting read about Sony CMOS..
http://digitalcontentproducer.com/hdhdv/depth/cmos_latitude_111106/

Bill, for a moment, I forgot about the 16-235 and 0-255 differences.

NTSC REC601 and HD REC709, what range applies to the latter?

Questions... I don't have answers.

I believe REC709 will allow RGB0-255.

Whistling or not, I think Bill is on to something here; makes a lot of sense. Consider all with my opinion that each profile needs its own Zebra number to be valid. That argument was put down but I spent today experimenting.

I locked the camera down on a scene that has a covered wagon, one side in half light, one side in shadow. Hills behind and a big blue sky. I set the Zebras at the #2=100 and shot every scene just when the zebras had all gone, with every possible combination of Matrix (Standard, HiSat, FL, Cinema) and gamma (Std 1,2 &3 and CINE 1, 2 3 & 4). I then took the best grabs and did the same with them adding in Black Master and Black Gamma.

The first thing I noticed is that while most scenes were similarly exposed, many are very dark, despite all being recorded at 100%. I then split the scenes up and without knowing the settings sorted them into the best ten, then five then the best top three. I know this is subjective to some extent, but defining best as closest to the color graduation of film, the winner was CINE4 at HiSat with a little positive black gamma to pull out the black detail.

I'd post some screen catches if I knew how. How do yer do that?

Michael, not used it myself. When you post a reply, see Manage Attachments, below? Or, top of the screen: Image Gallery >> Upload ?

Bob, Bill at all,

I knew my gut feelings were not deceiving me. Have just browsed through the very first recordings made with the EX1 on day one (right of-the-box); unfortunately don't remember what settings exactly I was using (it might be cine gamma, but almost most certainly not Hisat matrix). Anyway, the sky behind foliages is treated correctly; it beats me why anybody should think the ugliness I showed before was a normal thing!

As soon as we have more sun here, I'm going to try and re-create. If it's the Hisat matrix at fault, it probably is badly programmed or for special purposes only (like lowlight/ indoors - without highlights, anyway). If I can't reproduce the clean look below, at least I'll know the camera needs servicing, after all...Or does it have any factory reset switch / key combination?

I knew my gut feelings were not deceiveing me. Have just browsed through the very first recordings made with the EX1 on day one (right of-the-box); unfortunately don't remember what settings exactly I was using ...

Piotr, trust me- you are seeing mostly a normal photographic effect. It was made more obvious (and a bit ugly as you say) by incorrect exposure. The codec had some effect, but you would have seen it in 35mm too.

I know you are seeing different things now than with the earlier shots, but there are lots of factors, including the lighting, that have changed.

Take your light meter out there. Take an incident reading at the camera, then take some spot readings at the trees, the sky behind the branches and then at the unobstructed sky. I suppose you may want to take readings at the fence- look just go crazy and meter everything.

(Don't forget to calibrate the light meter and the camera together!)

Take a few bracketed exposures for a few subjects, writing down all your settings... not just the picture profile but the aperture, zoom and focus settings- and your meter readings too. Then go back in and evaluate the images with that information at hand.

If you have a DSLR or 35mm camera go out there with that and do the same thing. Heck, try it with another video camera too.

Let me know if you still think you have a problem when you are done with all that.

Bob, Bill at all,

I knew my gut feelings were not deceiveing me. Have just browsed through the very first recordings made with the EX1 on day one (right of-the-box); unfortunately don't remember what settings exactly I was using (it might be cine gamma, but almost most certainly not Hisat matrix). Anyway, the sky behind foliages is treated correctly; it beats me why anybody should think the ugliness I showed before was a normal thing!

As soon as we have more sun here, I'm going to try and re-create. If it's the Hisat matrix at fault, it probably is badly programmed or for special purposes only (like lowlight/ indoors - without highlights, anyway). If I can't reproduce the clean look below, at least I'll know the camera needs servicing, after all...Or does it have any factory reset switch / key combination?

The camera does have a reset in the menus.
All the other recent Sony cameras have a hardware reset function, the EX1 is the only camera I've come across with a software reset. Just be careful as I don't know how much it resets. The reset in the Z1 does not reset the picture profiles. It does reset one thing though, if you buy a "PAL" variant it resets to 50Hz and the opposite if you bought a "NTSC" variant. The PPs each have their own reset in the Z1, haven't investigated the EX1s reser results as yet.

Yes you're right Bob, there is the Reset option in the menu - not being certain what it does, I won't do it as for now. I have reset all the PP's and will try to recreate the path that lead me from correct to bad results, that made me start this thread in the first place.

OK, so I reset my EX1, and shot the same scenes (sorry they are boring) with many different settings, but steering away from the Hisat matrix. The two grabs below are just the factory settings. The scopes in Vegas still reach above 100, but the artefacting is mostly gone - just the tree branches against the sky!

I guess two important conclusions (not scientific at all) may be drawn:

1. The Hisat matrix may be good for making dull scenere more punchy (like low light, indor scenes), but not where white cliping may occure

2. While other cameras (well, at least the V1, HC1, Canon A1) tend to spill the backlight into and over contrasty details (making the twiggies even thinner), on the EX1 we can see something quite opposite: the dark objects against highlighted backgroud tend to "overshadow" it, resulting in retaining the original colour of the backgroud which otherwise would already bee blown to white.

Please note that I didn't have to drastically reduce exposure, and the foreground objects are bright enough and NOT oversaturated, like they had to be with the Hisat matrix if I wanted to prevent the trees-against-sky artefacting.

PS. The more I work with the EX1, the more I hate the ND filter switch! Unfortunately, this is not going to be improved with a firmare update:(

From Adam Wilt's most extensive review of the EX1:

"I’ve found that the EX1’s knee does a fine job except when highlights are strongly colored. Saturated highlights show more hue shift and harsh clipping than I’d like. I’m exploring this further out of curiosity, but even if the knees were perfect I would still shoot with cine gammas, because I prefer the progressive compression to the look of a traditional knee."

"• Standard – the camera’s default color matrix.
• High SAT – boosts all colors by about 15%-20%.
• FL Light – boosts the red-cyan axis by 15%.
• Cinema – shrinks the red-cyan axis by 20%."

Looking at Image83, the whitest cloud above the end of the top of the roof is clipped and has lost detail. It's not visually objectionable because clouds can be all white (no pun intended) but if that was a patch of blue sky you'd be likely back to your original problem.

Which I think goes back to something I said many pages previously. Clipped specular highlights are generally visually acceptable because they're almost invariably white anyway. Your clipped cloud is another example of where only those who go looking notice. It's predictable and visually acceptable. Your previous problem with the sky is predictable but visually unacceptable.

I posted a link to an article on Luminous Lanscapes about histograms and what they mean and how to use them. The author made a very applicable point. A histogram inside a view of the scene is very useful, you need to look at the scene AND the histogram to guage what is going to be the result.

For certain, Hi Sat could bring you undone. If not, a logical question would follow. Why make it selectable. If it's always such a desirable thing why not just have it like that on every camera. Again a good point from the Luminous Landscapes article about a very similar scene to yours. We're trying to fit a scene with 11 stops dynamic range into a medium with 5 stops and it will not fit (well it wouldn't on his DSC or film camera). All the image adjustments these Cinealta cameras have gives us a better shot at squashing it in but it's a risky business. Some of the possible adjustments are as you've noted designed for different kinds of scenes or use under controlled lighting. Many of them are features from high end cameras and many users here and elsewhere have for years be asking why Sony make us pay large sums of money to get a camera with them. Well Sony have delivered but it is a case of buyer be aware.

Bob, Bill, Leonard at all,

Thank you very much for your input. I don't need to tell you how much relief the output of all that is to me; I was really very frustrated over the last two days!

I feel flattered by the fact that again, my observations coincide with (by far the most comprehensive so far) EX1 review from Adam Wilt; the statement that Bill has quoted:

"I’ve found that the EX1’s knee does a fine job except when highlights are strongly colored. Saturated highlights show more hue shift and harsh clipping than I’d like. I’m exploring this further out of curiosity, but even if the knees were perfect I would still shoot with cine gammas, because I prefer the progressive compression to the look of a traditional knee."

- has been practically illustrated in this thread, I hope. Note the terms "hue shift and harsh clipping"; add the Hisat matrix and you will get frost on bare trees! Or patches in the sky that almost look like ink stains.

Also, I couldn't put it better myself, Bob - your statement:

"Clipped specular highlights are generally visually acceptable because they're almost invariably white anyway. Your clipped cloud is another example of where only those who go looking notice. It's predictable and visually acceptable. Your previous problem with the sky is predictable but visually unacceptable."

- may well be considered the final conclussion of this thread.

PS. As a side note, Bob, the software EX1 reset takes EVERYTHING back to where it was when still in the box, including PP's. But also, of course, any button assignment, zebra settings, and the recording format (with the latter depending on the PAL or NTSC area one is in).

PS.PS. A note to Leonard Levy: thanks Leonard for consistently supporting my opinion on the effect unacceptability throughout the whole thread!

Piotr,
I guess you would of been relieved a lot sooner. Maybe you skipped over the Adam Walt's reference earlier on in this thread? :)

http://dvinfo.net/conf/showpost.php?p=820946&postcount=64

Well, of course this helped when you found out that backing off on the saturation was the fix.

It makes me wonder if Sony could offer a parameter to roll the saturation off on the top end where highlights start to get clipped.

Piotr,
I guess you would of been relieved a lot sooner. Maybe you skipped over the Adam Walt's reference earlier on in this thread? :)

http://dvinfo.net/conf/showpost.php?p=820946&postcount=64

Well, of course this helped when you found out that backing off on the saturation was the fix.

It makes me wonder if Sony could offer a parameter to roll the saturation off on the top end where highlights start to get clipped.

Yes, I must have skipped that post of yours - thanks as well. Regarding your point on a parameter to tune the highs saturation - well, it's there, but only for STD curves. I'm going to play with it, of course. However, I'd like to use the cine gammas for outside shots anyway (look how flat my last grabs look with standard gamma), and those do not offer ANY knee region adjustment at all - a pity.

Piotr,
I have to say after looking at all these pictures......I like the design of your fence. Seriously.

Piotr. I got a nice red Halo from a part overexposed image I was testing. I don't know if this is any use.

Piotr,
I have to say after looking at all these pictures......I like the design of your fence. Seriously.

I am now in such a good mood after making sure the camera is OK that I believe you, Benjamin :)

Piotr. I got a nice red Halo from a part overexposed image I was testing. I don't know if this is any use.

Mark, I don't think this is the same problem we've been discussed here; it looks to me more like the light spilling through the guys hair... But can't be sure.

I'm glad you guys got it fdigured out before I got a chance to test, now what will I do with my day.
One thing I did notice though is that even in the auto knee the knee sat control is operational so you might want to try the look again with the hi sat matrix but pulling down your knee saturation. that may give you the best of both worlds. Knees sat is always dangerous when overdone and it just may be that the combination with Hi sat matrix makes it worse.

Playing with these settings has alerted me to one striking flaw with the EX though that I hope could be fixed in an upgrade. Maybe I am just mmissing it though.

Is there a way to show at one time what the PP color, white, knee and gamma settings are on a single screen. The status button doesn't include it and that's the one screen that you really would want to check constantly, especially as its really easy to hit the wrong button when saving stuff.
This sucks big time to me. the worst thing I've found on the camera.

Leonard,

Unfortunately, with any Cine gamma, the Knee submenu (including the point, slope AND saturation) is NOT functional (dimmed out). You can adjust all of these for any STD curve, though.

Your point about a single status screen with all currently engaged PP's settings is excellent - should go high onto the firmware update list! There are 5 pages to browse in Status, but only the name of the current PP is displayed on one of them.

As it's your idea, please put it in the relevant thread - who knows, hopefully Sony IS reading :)

PS.PS. A note to Leonard Levy: thanks Leonard for consistently supporting my opinion on the effect unacceptability throughout the whole thread!

Hey I think we all agree it was unacceptable- just disagreed on why.

Glad its sorting out for you.

By the way- what was it you found objectionable about the ND switch on the camera?

Well the guy (Me) is quite a way into the shade. Sunlight is hitting the wall behind so you have an area (Me) That is underexposed and an area behind that is over exposed. The fringing around the hair shouldnt happen because Im not near the sunlight. The sunlight is behind and the halo is not through the hair its around it. Also following the brickwork too. It cant be light spill because this was an area of shade but also the halo follows the brickwork in the overexposed part.

Hey I think we all agree it was unacceptable- just disagreed on why.

Glad its sorting out for you.

By the way- what was it you found objectionable about the ND switch on the camera?

Alexander, the ND filter switch can adopt a position in between two stops, which results in what I posted here (see next posts also, explaining how and when it happened):

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost.php?p=822106&postcount=461

Alexander, the ND filter lever can adopt a position in between two setting, which results in what I posted here (see next posts also, explaining how and when it can happen):

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost.php?p=822106&postcount=461

Wow, I haven't had that happen to me.

Is there a way to purposefully recreate it? If you know how to recreate it, can you use that knowledge to make it never happens by accident?

The "opening iris effect" during filter switching I have noticed on several frames, but (perhaps pure coincidence) in SP 24PsF ONLY. The filter not having snapped properly (and thus creating the upper right vignetting effect) happened to me just once; yes I managed to recreate it intentionally - but frankly, cannot see a way to guarantee avoiding another incident like this. What the switch lacks is a proper lever/knob on it, so that it could be grabbed by and actually turned firmly, precisely and quickly between its stops; with the current construction the switch is actually slid instead of turned by the lever, which cannot be precise (just like all the other slider switches - the camera/power off/media, for one).

I'm thinking of having a knob machined nicely, and glued into the slit in the switch to create a proper lever mechanism, like those on the V1 and most other cameras I ever used. What do you think?

Looking at the pictures of the new HDV camera (Z7), I can see quite a different solution is used; no lever or slider, but a turning knob. This cannot possibly control a traditional filter, which makes me wonder if Sony adopted an all new ND filter (software?) It also has 3 and not just 2 settings (plus the "off" position, of course). And is probably ddead silent in operation - I hate the click of tranditional ND switches, getting recorded by the microphone!

As a side note, I also wonder why the CineAlta division hasn't adopted another new solution coming with the prosumer Z7 - the XtraFine VF. The one on the EX1 comes from the previous generation of cameras, and - especially when compared to the splendid LCD - is pathetic.

Hardware-wise, I personally find the ND switch and the VF to be probably the weakest points of this otherwise wonderful machine.

Leonard,

Unfortunately, with any Cine gamma, the Knee submenu (including the point, slope AND saturation) is NOT functional (dimmed out). You can adjust all of these for any STD curve, though.



Piotr,
Actually I was not refering to cine gamma which you are right about , but to the standard gammas - when auto knee is engaged you still have control over knee saturation which is exactly where your problem was occuring as I recall ( std gamma /auto knee?)

I hope Sony is listening but unfortunately i doubt it.

I'm thinking of having a knob machined nicely, and glued into the slit in the switch to create a proper lever mechanism, like those on the V1 and most other cameras I ever used. What do you think?

Well if its causing you that much trouble then it sounds like a good idea. With caveats.

I would suggest using the least amount of "extension" that makes it work for you. We can't know if too much torque might harm the camera in some way.

Also have you considered tapping a screw hole in there and then using a machined metal screw... like on matte boxes? The advantage is that you could remove it more easily when you sell the camera or the like.

Also- check with Sony support. I am sure they'll tell you that it will void the warranty, but if they are in a good mood they may limit that voiding to the ND switch mechanism.