Starting new thread on this one. I thought I had a dirty heads problem, but I'm now getting this message during playback of any recorded HDV material on any previously or newly recorded tape.

'Incorrect tape specification -- playback is restricted'

If I play a tape (HDV material) from the start without stopping, no problem. If I stop and rewind and play again, the problems begin. The tape will play up until the point where I stopped and then give me a blue screen for a second or so, then continue playing. If I stop again and rewind, the problem gets worse when I play the tape once again. This time the blue screen happens at seemingly intermittent locations up to and including the spots where I previously stopped the tape. If I keep rewinding and playing, it gets worse and worse until I see the error message in red letters over the blue screen:

'Incorrect tape specification -- playback is restricted'

I've tried cleaning the heads --any thoughts on what might be going on here?

Thanks --

Did you combine HDV footage with SD footage on the same tape?

no, only HDV material on the tape(s). Interestingly, it does not seem to happen on older tapes shot in DV (shot with xl1, played on A1).

Think the camera has a visit to Canon service coming up real soon.

Can't say whether it's a transport alignement or other problem, but it's definately not as Canon intended.

They probably won't be able to tell you either, but at least they'll fix it.


CS

PS. This goes without saying, but I'll say it anyway - you'd better document this REAL GOOD and include a sample tape as well.

Hi Chris –

Yeah, I am beginning to think the same – I can’t believe that only a little more than a year after purchase, it probably has to go in. It really has gotten only very moderate use.

Not sure I understand the last part about documenting…? Can you explain further? All they need to do is throw a recorded HDV tape in it and play and rewind several times to see what is happening.

Thanks for the feedback.

I have found that a carefully and clearly worded half page description of the problem, with all known details included, double spaced, put in the box with the camera in the packageing, goes a long way to making sure the tech doing the fix has a real grasp of what he/ she is up against.


It is quite possible this is not a unique failure, if so, the description will tip him/ her off immediately.


Cs

Chris --

I see -- thanks for the tip, good idea and much appreciated --

James

This is NOT a defect...

The camera MUST be set the appropriate format, within VCR mode for teh tape foramt in question.

If you do NOT configure this, then this is the message you will be recieving.
Its also the same message you get when you try to play HDV as DV, and mixed format tapes.

If you have your camera set to Signal Setup, do NOT use Auto, select either HDV or DV

When playing back, the ONLY setting required is to use either DV or HDV in the "Playback STD" option. Aside from that, there is no need to adjust any other setting unless you want to scale down, this is where you can adjust downconvert option.
Aside from that, this message will only pop up if your cameras playback, signal send through 1394 are not the same formats within the tape itself

You might try call Canon first, to check whether or not they have hard of this before.

SP or LP speed?

If you rewind and remove the tape from the camcorder, then reinsert it and start over, does the problem reset (no problem on the initial play for this insertion) or do you see the issue at the same spots as you did before you removed the tape?

How are you viewing the tape and controlling the camcorder? Is this as seen on an external monitor, on a computer screen with camcorder controlled by the PC, on the camcorder LCD panel with no camcorder connection to anything else, etc.

Peter –

Thanks for the input. Yes, I initially made sure that I was in HDV and not auto. I switched between the two and it didn’t make a difference – same problem still. After reading your post, I checked again, switched between HDV only and auto and again, it didn’t make a difference in the problem. Humm…

Don –

Yes, it happens in the same spots even if I take the tape out, reinsert, rewind and view again. Again, it gets worse and worse at each new spot where I stop the tape. It almost looks as if small bits of the tape are being erased every time I stop the tape. I'm not sure how it remembers the trouble spot(s) after taking out the tape and re-inserting!

I am viewing on the camera LCD flip-out monitor – no connection to a computer whatsoever.

Side bar -- VERY STRANGE: I removed one tape I was viewing and inserted a different previously recorded tape (HDV) -- and for a split second saw a few frames of the previous tape! How on earth could that have happened!?

Will be calling canon shortly I suppose…

Thanks again --

Before sending the cam back you might try a master reset. You can do this by removing the battery, then, using something small like a paper clip, push the master reset located on top of the camera next to the built-in speaker. The camera is controlled by a computer and we all know how they sometimes loose their mind. This would explain why a frame or two of your previous tape showed even after you inserted a different tape.

Strange.

On the image from the previous tape, all reasonably modern digital camcorders (including the old analog camcorders such as Hi-8, that include digital signal processing) have memory used for image buffers. The image from the previous tape was probably resident in the image buffer, and it did not get updated until the camcorder read the start of a new GOP from the tape, which could take ~1/2 second during which the old image was probably displayed.

But definitely sounds like a trip to Canon is in order, if they cannot give a solution and a reboot is in order. It may be worth trying to play one of the problem tapes on a different machine to see if the camcorder put something on the tape at the problem point.

Thanks Jim and Don --

Regarding the master reset -- after I remove the battery, should all power (including AC) be disconnected? Or do I push master reset with the camera 'pluged in' but without battery?

FYI – I did reset the camera earlier from the internal menu: System setup>Reset All – is that the same as the button on the outside?

Thanks --

According to the manual "remove all power then push reset". I am assuming the internal clock battery supplies the power. This resets the computer in addition to all the settings. I have not had to do this on the A1 so I can't vouch for the accuracy.

Well, tried pushing the reset button -- no luck. Called Canon as well, they recommend bringing it in. Looks like a trip to the shop... and of course I have a shoot Friday! ugh...

Thanks all --

Thats how it always works! Just when you need it most - in the shop it goes. Best of luck on the shoot.

Thanks Jim

and thanks again all for the feedback. I'll post again after they figure out what's up...

Jamesburg, NJ, is just 45 miles down I-95 from NYC - a short day trip. If you are a member of the Canon XL-XH Owners club, will they provide you with a loaner for your shoot while yours is being checked?

James: I noticed that my issue gets worse the longer the camera is running. Is yours the same way?

For example, last night, I put in one tape to capture, and it had only one dropout. The second tape had 3 or 4, then the third and fourth each had about 20 dropouts. This morning, after the camera had been off all night, I captured another tape, and it only had one dropout. This development further convinces me it is a camera issue. It seems the longer the camera is on, or is being used to capture, the worse it gets.

If I play a tape (HDV material) from the start without stopping, no problem. If I stop and rewind and play again, the problems begin. The tape will play up until the point where I stopped and then give me a blue screen for a second or so, then continue playing. If I stop again and rewind, the problem gets worse when I play the tape once again. This time the blue screen happens at seemingly intermittent locations up to and including the spots where I previously stopped the tape. If I keep rewinding and playing, it gets worse and worse until I see the error message in red letters over the blue screen:

'Incorrect tape specification -- playback is restricted'



Hi Ben -- My problem gets worse the more I rewind and play the tape over. See my above description. Not sure about capture, although I assmum it would be the same situation. My problems occurs when the camera is in play mode, viewing material on the camera lcd screen (not connected to the computer via firewire, etc)

I'm thinking that maybe one of the tape guides, pins or something to do with tape tracking has become slightly magnetised.

Some quick tests:

It sounded like the problem spot, once created by stopping and rewinding, persists on the tape at that location, at least during the current session with the camcorder.

1. Does it persist the next day, or only during the current session using the camcorder?

If it plays OK the next day, is sounds like a thermal or similar problem with the camcorder that develops after operating for a while. But the following is a crucial test:

2. Does it persist on the tape if the tape is taken for playback to a different machine?

If it persists on playback in another known good machine, it is recorded to tape, and that implies the problem may be caused by a transient electrical signal/pulse reaching the record heads (which are the same heads used for playback) at the time playback is stopped. This pulse has the effect of erasing some of the information recorded on the tape at that point.

Hi All,

First off let me say we too have had this same problem with the camera! And It’s not the dirty heads!

(now I need to explain that I am a relative newbie so my terminology may not be spot on)

We just bought 2 XH A1s over Christmas and had no problems until last week.

The first time it happened I had been playing back the video on our Sony Trinitron TV. Then I went in and plugged the camera for playback into the Samsung HD TV in the back room. When I was done there, I disconnected and went to pull footage off on the computer. Once I pressed play, the camera gave me the error ('Incorrect tape specification -- playback is restricted'), and the wrong format was showing up in the viewfinder. I disconnected from the computer and still I was getting the error, wrong format listed, and the tape was obviously playing but I only got blue on the LCD screen. (NOTE: Oddly sometimes the error does not appear only blue screen and wrong format is visible with a frozen timeline even thought there are audible signs of the mechanisms playing)

I had recorded only in HD and it was stating SD but no visible time code.

Frustrated I searched the forum here and kept coming across the “clean the heads” response. Ultimately I determined the camera was “broken” and was going to have to ship it off to Canon.

Miraculously the next morning it worked. Hmmm… Not good.

So, not wanting to run into the same issue again, I kept trying to reproduce the error by walking through the steps I had taken the day before. No luck… Until, by accident that evening. Same scenario. I went into the living room to view the footage on the Sony Monitor then went back into the back room and plugged into the Samsung HD TV to view. When I disconnected from the Samsung, I pressed play to watch in the viewfinder, ERROR AND NO PLAYBACK! It happened again! So I went back and plugged into the Sony, and it played, with no problem. I then unplugged from the Sony, and it played fine in the view finder. I retested this situation multiple times to verify this was the direct cause of the error and non-playback. Absolutely reproducible every time.

So here is the catch. If I playback on the Samsung and then disconnect, I get the error and incorrect format listed. It does play on the Samsung TV but not after disconnecting in the viewfinder or for capture into the computer.

Solution, we don’t plug into the Samsung HD tv.

HOWEVER!!! The only way to reset the camera is to playback on the Sony monitor. No joke.

SOULTION??? Maybe try plugging your camera into another TV monitor and playback there? (try the neighbor’s tv if you don’t have two)

I can not tell you why this is happening, but this is what happened to us.

I thought it important to share what we found out, and how we worked around it.

Sorry for my lack of technical explanation… Hope that helps.

I sure hope all of you out there with this problem don’t own the same Samsung TV model…

Cheers!
Aly (& Balt)

(this is Balt’s wife writing under his login as I am yet to be activated :)

Can I just confirm something here.........

1. To view on both televisions, you were connecting the camera via the Component (three RCA connectors) lead or Composite (one RCA connector)?

2. To pull the info off the camera into the computer, you were connecting with the Firewire lead?

3. Unless I missed something, the error you are getting is happening without the Firewire being used at all? Just the Component or Composite?


CS

Hi Chris!

1. On both tvs we were connecting the camera via the Component lead
2. Yes, Pulling off the camera we were using Firewire (into Vegas)
3. Yes, the error is occurring without the firewire, only when using the Component connector.

I guess I should have mentioned that. Terribly sorry…

Of course, the next question you should have figured was coming............

Is there a powering sequence with this that does NOT induce the error?

To my way of thinking; The A1 Component is O/P only, the TV Component I/P only.

So, logically:

TV off, Camera off, Connect, Camera on, TV on, Play, Stop, TV off, Camera off, disconnect. Fault present?

You can possibly see how many combinations of this really need to be worked through to finger the culprit.

Don't suppose you've a couple of spare hours to work through them all?

Where I think the most likely chance of a problem occuring is if the camera is turned off and disconnected whilst the TV is on - if there is any residual voltage on the TV component connectors whist the Camera is shutting down it's possible that during it's shut down sequence that voltage is tripping something that shouldn't be tripped during said sequence.

That is pure speculation and not a lot of good to anyone. It is, however, the only thing I can see in my wildest imaginings that could trip a micro computer like the A1 up.

It would be nice to nail it once for all.


CS

Balt and I were just discussing this. We will test the power on / off combinations ASAP and post our findings here. (Though we have three days of shooting starting tomorrow morning and it may take a bit until I can get back to you all with the results)

To confirm, we have been powering off the camera before disconnecting. You have a very good point concerning the residual voltage.

We both agree on this end about nailing down the issue. I know after reading other posts of people with the same problem it would be nice to know “why” and not just "a work-around."

Cheers!
Aly

Just to expand on what I think may be happening here...........

If the camera is powered down with extraneous voltages on the Component O/P's, somehow (and this would be an extraordinary bad piece of circuit design, but eminently doable) the external voltages are producing an "in error" logic level/ bit/ byte/ flag that is written into the cameras Eprom during shutdown.

Power it back up, and hey presto, you're stuck with it. Power it down, back to Eprom it goes, error and all.

The only way to clear it is to power it down with those levels held down to zero (you can't find it in the menu's because it probably isn't even in a menu option).

Ergo, why the Samsung induces it, and why the Sony clears it.

Takes two bad pieces of design - both the Camera AND the Samsung, but has bought down more aircraft than just about anything else - double system failure (through design).


CS

PS. Further reflection on this has produced the following:

1. What are the exact model numbers of both the Samsung (culprit) and Sony (saviour)?

2. Does this happen with both Canon A1's in identical fashion, or are there differences?

3. Are there any plucky A1 owners out there who are prepared to have that model Samsung possibly scramble your camera in the interests of medical science (obviously, you have to own both camera and tv, gonna be a big ask)?

4. Have you informed Canon Aus. of this interesting snippet, or is Canon in blissfull ignorance (or, shudder, already knows but is keeping quiet, hoping no one will find out)?

Hi Chris,

Balt speaking now... Your theory makes a lot of sense. I was suspecting something to that effect, especially since the Samsung flatpanel appears to be doing a lot of detecting on its various AV inputs, and lets you know whether it finds anything.

From a pilots perspective I am not sure whether this has in fact brought many airplanes down, but as recent history shows (Qantas losing all electrical power due to water in one GCU, BA38 landing short probably due to some sort of FADEC conflict), the more microcontrollers you have in a system, the more complex things get I guess.

We will test the camera to reproduce the problem after this weekend. We have a shoot coming up and can't afford to be one cam down.

Cheers

- Balt