Sorry if this has been asked already... but with Sony's new EX1 and the two HDV models with interchangeable lens, Is there any word/rumor that Panny is following up with anything new? It seem that they are do...

I'm looking to buy a cam and will after I complete a music video next month. For this I will rent an EX1 and see how I like it. For what I need/want the only thing missing on that camera is an HDMI out and the ability to interchange the lens.

Sorry if this has been asked already... but with Sony's new EX1 and the two HDV models with interchangeable lens, Is there any word/rumor that Panny is following up with anything new? It seem that they are do...

I'm looking to buy a cam and will after I complete a music video next month. For this I will rent an EX1 and see how I like it. For what I need/want the only thing missing on that camera is an HDMI out and the ability to interchange the lens.

There have been no rumors of an HVX-200A or and HVX-300 so I wouldn't hold your breath. If Panasonic was to introduce a new camera, it would be at NAB 2008 which isn't until April 11, 2008.

No rumors, no buzz though. Yes, Sony has been introducing a lot of new cams but the HVX still seems to be selling well. Who knows?

Dan

The price of the HVX w/16g P2 is tempting, but the EX1 only leads you to believe they won't be the only ones with something new this year. If NAB is when, then I can wait.

Thanks for the reply!

The latest cams from Panasonic are the HDC-HS9 and HDC-SD9, both introduced at CES. These cams compete at the HV20/HV30 level, rather than with the EX1.

You can give a try on HPX500 and used broadcast SD lens (to save money) if you are specifically looking for a handy type cam.

It's more money but it is so solid and give you option to rent the real HD lens when you need it, also Cinevate is planning on making a relay lens to use with Brevis 35 HD imager.

Yes, Sony has a real HVX killer on their hands. I have seen a lot of people on forums replacing their hvx's with ex1's. I sure hope this makes Panasonic release a TRUE 1080p sensor camera in the same price range.

Yes, Sony has a real HVX killer on their hands...

While everyone has their opinion calling the EX1 an "HVX killer" is a bit of an overstatement.

I've personally tested the EX1 (no SxS cards were available at the time) and it's a nice camera - from an acquisition perspective only. However when you consider what working with XDCAM really means in post and that for most commercial workflows it will require transcoding the footage into an I-Frame codec just to be able to work with it as easily as DVCPRO or even HDCAM then it's far from being a "killer" of anything - except an HDV-based camera. In that respect, the EX1 is the next logical step-away from any tape-based HDV camera.

The EX1 does have a slight edge in noise, sharpness and low EV's (and to a certain degree so does the Z1 and H1) vs the HVX200 but all those advantages are lost when you consider how much extra time and money is required to incorporate any long-GOP format into professional workflows.

No doubt at some point Panny will introduce a new model to square-off with the EX1 (we all expect some announcement by NAB, but that is conjecture) but at no point could you replace the HVX200 with an EX1 and incorporate it into existing workflows without a painful, shoe-horn methodology.

While everyone has their opinion calling the EX1 an "HVX killer" is a bit of an overstatement.

I've personally tested the EX1 (no SxS cards were available at the time) and it's a nice camera - from an acquisition perspective only. However when you consider what working with XDCAM really means in post and that for most commercial workflows it will require transcoding the footage into an I-Frame codec just to be able to work with it as easily as DVCPRO or even HDCAM then it's far from being a "killer" of anything - except an HDV-based camera. In that respect, the EX1 is the next logical step-away from any tape-based HDV camera.

The EX1 does have a slight edge in noise, sharpness and low EV's (and to a certain degree so does the Z1 and H1) vs the HVX200 but all those advantages are lost when you consider how much extra time and money is required to incorporate any long-GOP format into professional workflows.

No doubt at some point Panny will introduce a new model to square-off with the EX1 (we all expect some announcement by NAB, but that is conjecture) but at no point could you replace the HVX200 with an EX1 and incorporate it into existing workflows without a painful, shoe-horn methodology.

Good take on the situation Robert. The EX-1 has been the victim of some rampant hype, much of it not true. The EX-1 is a nice camera that is capable of making good looking images but it also has numerous limitations and issues, as do most cameras. The HVX is far from perfect as is the EX-1. Either of these cameras have significant challenges to overcome in certain situations.

Best,

Dan

Yeah, it depends. I'm recommending the EX1 here at work for corporate videos. (Record the engineers doing demos, edit, ship a BD, cut down on travel expenses - and make so-so presenters look pretty good with the magic of editing.)

However, I wouldn't consider it for ColonelCrush, due to the rolling shutter on fast action. The HVX would be sweet.

Internal corporate videos don't deal with fast motion or frame by frame stuff, so the rolling shutter should be okay. Low noise lets us use simpler lighting. Since it would only be used occasionally, workflow issues (long GOP) aren't that critical. Looks like a nice match.

Neither camera is a killer of the other.

Robert,

I would like to know more about why you feel the EX-1 is overdone.

1/2" chips, nice lens, full 1080p resolution.

I am researching an HD upgrade and the choice is really between an XDCAM HD 335 & EX-1 or an HPX-500 & HVX-200.

It would seem to me, a small business owner who edits everything I shoot, that noise, sharpness and light gathering abilities are very important, more so than the work flow concerns.

I use Edius and it has a Canopus HQ mode which to my understanding is pretty quick to convert footage to an I-frame format.

In my situation, would you still favor the Panasonic cameras over the Sony? Given I can adapt to any workflow?

If so, I would like to hear your opinions as I have yet to use any of these cameras.

Thanks

Tim,

I said the "HVX killer.." comment was overstated, not that the camera is overdone.

If you're a one-stop shop and don't have commercial workflows or posthouses that you interface with then you can choose whatever camera you think best fits your needs however, here's the thought I leave anybody with when they're considering any long-GOP format system:

Working with long-GOP of any flavor takes much more computing power, for more rendering - and the painful "conforming" process at the end, which is why there are so many third party products and software to convert long-GOP into I-Frame.

So the question becomes quite simply: Do you want to work with a system that will eventually force you into converting into an I-Frame codec or, do you want to start out with I-Frame codec to begin with? That's the real question you should ponder.

I-Frame: DV25 (mini-DV), DVCAM, DVCPRO (all bitrates), HDCAM and now AVC-Intra (not to be confused with AVCHD).

Long-GOP: HDV and XDCAM.

Choose wisely.

My first thoughts are to image quality and then to camera performance.

I have to admit, by specs and reading I prefer the HPX-500 over the XDCAMHD 335, but I also prefer the EX-1 over the HVX-200.

I just can't get past the 1/3" chips and the light gathering ability of the HVX-200.

When shooting depostions with my DVC-200 and a Lowel 600w Omni (end of the table with spun diffusion), I still am often at f2.8 for proper skin exposure.

When I think of the HVX-200 in that situation I wonder how open I would have to be to properly expose.

I am looking forward to the future as I am kind of torn between the two companies as well as if I need to upgrade now anyway.

Tim,

Again, if you consider specs alone as your primary comparison for which system to purchase then you're not seeing the whole picture from how to actually work with the footage you've shot.

Each camera you listed is capable of amazing imagery; the camera alone is not going to produce good looking images nor is it going to make your life easier as an editor, you have to fully understand the implications of any system you use to fully utilize it's abilities and be aware of it's limitations.

Well, I am finding hands on experience is a bit of a problem with these cameras.

They are not in any stores in my area to go look at and try.

Specs are all I have at the beginning stages to narrow down choices to track down one or two of these cameras and evaluate them.

Anyway, this thread was about a new Panasonic camera and I would probably sway to Panasonic if they came out with a 1/2" chip version of the HVX-200.

Plenty of places in the D/FW area where you can touch & try... such as ECI: http://www.ecivideo.com/

Tim:

You can't argue with 1/2 inch chips.

But dealing with Long GOP in edit and post together with a substantially smaller color space isn't for me and many others.

I know Chris argues that the rolling shutter issue is overstated, but my experience is that it is a concern.

From what I've read, the EX1 is only about a half stop better than the HVX200 despite those larger chips.

Head to head, 1080/24p to 1080/24p, same rec 709 gamma (STD3 vs. HD NORM), the EX1 is 1/2 stop faster than the HVX.

But if you go to 1080/60i it gains a stop, and the HVX loses a bit, so for 1080/60i the EX1 would be about 1.5 stops faster or so.

Also, when dropping to 720p mode the EX1 gains about 1/2 stop, so in 720p mode it's about a total of 1 stop faster.