*Warning, My ignorance is showing...*

What is underscan?

Thanks,

Trish

Normal viewfinders and monitors show a pretty picture, just not all of it! You may think that you have a great shot only to find out later that the mic boom was it the frame. This is because they do not show everything that is going to the tape, and will be seen on the TV later. Some are better than others, but I think on average they show only about 90% to 95% of what is actually being recorded. You can check your particular setup by taping something with specific borders for the viewfinder, then look at your actual footage on the computer and see what the difference is. Even the computer may not show all, burn a DVD to look at on a TV set too.

Anyway, a viewer or monitor with underscan shows the whole shot, usually with a blank border all around. One small problem, at least with my JVC monitor, is that when I put it on underscan it goes from a 9" monitor to about a 5" monitor. Oh well, better than nothing!

Mike

If you don't like the XL2's stock LCD monitor, which is crap, get the FU-1000 B&W viewfinder. This will allow you to focus accurately. The peaking function allows you to see things snap into focus. The framing is also nice, you see the whole image.

I'm saving my pennies for a Transvideo monitor, either the CineMonitor IIIa, or one of the Rainbow II models. I want to be able to use it as an onboard monitor, but I also need to be able to loop through to another monitor for the director. The Marshalls, Transvideos and Nebteks can do this. The Nebtek is less expensive and may be the way to go. The Transvideo monitors are muy expensive.

I got the Marshall 4" monitor, because I needed it for a job. It's okay, but everything is squeezed in 16x9 mode, so it takes a little getting used to. But, I can see what I'm doing when I'm jibbing, dollying, or doing other fancy things where I can't look through the viewfinder. I can also loop through to my other monitor, so the director can see what's happening. It's also good for some of the TV stuff I do, the director can either be tethered, or I mount it up top and have it pointing at the director so he/she can see the image.

Transvideo Intl. (http://transvideointl.com)

Nebtek (http://www.nebtek.com/index.php)

Could anyone recommend a trustworthy, yet inexpensive and small external monitor? I need something that would be easy to travel with.

I'd like to find something myself that is 16:9 (or at least switchable to letterbox), powered by an included rechargeable battery, and under $300. If such a thing exists by some miraculous stroke of serendipity, I've yet to find it. If anyone here has found such a gadget, do tell.

I use a portable DVD player that has video in. It was inexpensive and does a great job of letting me focus and correctly frame my image.

The screen on the one I bought flips 180 degrees so it lays flat with the screen facing out. A nice convenience.

Thanks for the tip Jesse. I actually have a portable DVD player, but it doesn't have a video in. Do you mind sharing the make and model of your player?

Hi,
I just bought a polaroid model PDU1045. The good thing about this model is that it has a 10inch screen and the monitor does a complete 180 degree turn and folds back so all u get is the monitor. Place it in the case that comes with it and cross the straps and hey presto - you can then place the monitor over ur tripod!

Don't use it for colour critical use though but its great for focussing ur shots rather than peaking and magnifying! Might wanna make it mono.

Cheers

Brian

I finally got my set together. Received the nebtek battery converter for use with 12v monitor today and put it all together, here's how it looks:

http://home.quicknet.nl/qn/prive/bras/camera1.jpg

http://home.quicknet.nl/qn/prive/bras/camera2.jpg

http://home.quicknet.nl/qn/prive/bras/camera3.jpg

the monitor i got from ebay. Cheapish thing, but preforms quite well. It origional color was grey but i spraypainted it to black. For power i use nebtek's battery converter, so i can use standard canon batteries. I shortened the cables a bit so i'm not stuck with miles of useless cable.

This is by no means good for much of anything other than a cheap reference monitor for use with a Glidecam, but what I did was go on over to Toys R Us and pick up one of those portable gaming screens for use with a GameCube. It included a cigarette lighter adapter which got me the connector I needed for adapting a 9.6v R/C car battery as a power source. So, I cut up the cable, spliced it to the wires on the battery, hooked it all up.

The screen featured an A/V input wire so I then plugged in the RCA output from the camera. Not so great for doing much other than not having to stair at the small viewfinder screen! Unfortunately, the screen isn't 16X9 so the image is stretched. There's a more expensive($100) PS2 screen available that is a widescreen(I think).

Whole thing cost me about $60. Works ok, but I think I'm gonna get that Nebtek battery thing and use this old LCD monitor I've got sitting in my closet!

I just picked up an almost new XL2 and am wondering what would be the best monitor to use with it? I will be working at achieving a high quality image and need something that will do the job. I can imagine that I would also want one with 16X9 capability.

Thanks,
Jim

What size? Is it for post production or field work?

For field work, you usually see an 8" monitor, though you certainly could bring a 13/14" out there with you.

Anyway, I have a Sony PVM 14m2u (that's a 13" monitor) that I use for both field and post work. It's very nice (16:9, blue gun, good color reproduction), and can be had used for not too much off ebay (I would say between 4-500 bucks is the most you should pay, though I've seen 'em go for way less).

On the small side (the 8" monitors), many seem to like the PVM 8044q. Though it's small, it still has 500 lines of resolution, 16:9, all the goodies. These seem to go in the same price range as above

There's the less-awesome PVM 8041q, which is only 250 lines of res, and only has 16:9 in underscan mode (and it seems not all the 8041q's have 16:9 at all, according to the pics on ebay), and probably has other limitations I'm not familliar with. These seem to go around $300 on the 'bay.

For critical focus you need one with 500 lines. If you shoot wider and mainly with the stock lens you can get away with a cheaper monitor but if you shoot with the lens long or a mini35 you will need the better monitor.



ash =o)

Thanks a bunch guys. Living in europe, i'm shooting pal; i take it that this info would pertain to this camera also.........or not?

Thanks a bunch guys. Living in europe, i'm shooting pal; i take it that this info would pertain to this camera also.........or not?

Absolutely, in fact your Pal camera has 20% more resolution than NTSC, so being out of focus will show up ever so slightly more.

JVC make some very affordable "hi res" (note, not hi def) monitors, rated at 750+ lines of horizontal resolution, with all the bells and whistles (blue check, 16:9, underscan etc)... the basic Sony models cost the same amount with lower resolution and fewer features.

Size doesn't actually matter much - the 15", 17", 19" models all have the same features and resolution. Of course it's nice to have a bigger monitor if you're in a studio, but for portability you wouldn't want to go any bigger than 15".

Not sure where you are, but here in NZ I just picked up one of the 15" JVCs for equivalent to about 500 Euros, but admittedly that was grey market so it may be around 600 Euros with JVC warrenty. I also have a Sony 14" with lower specs (500 lines, no underscan) which actually cost more.

Stick with a CRT model. Although they are bulky, you just can't trust the colours on an LCD (unless you're willing to pay through the roof for a high end job, ie: something that will cost as much as your XL2).

Two things you should check before you buy: lines of resolution (>500 as Ash said), and underscan (so you can check the full frame - the XL2 viewfinder doesn't show 100% of what's being recorded to tape).

Thanks Josh. This is helpful. these monitors are not as common in france or germany ebay. i live in france but electronics are traditionaly a bit cheaper in germany than here. i'll keep looking on ebay for a bit longer before giving in to buying a new one.

Thanks Josh. This is helpful. these monitors are not as common in france or germany ebay. i live in france but electronics are traditionaly a bit cheaper in germany than here. i'll keep looking on ebay for a bit longer before giving in to buying a new one.

Great. One more note, if you're looking at cheaper options, be sure that the monitor has s-video inputs (or BNC) so you can connect it easily to your camera at a higher quality than composite (any decent monitor will do).

And make sure it's rated as 500+ lines of res. Underscan is useful but not essential, so you can live without it if you're on a tight budget.

Happy hunting

I was thinking if one can use a laptop with firewire for monitoring the image, it should be sufficient for focus as it is pretty highres.
Besides, what app would one use in order to get a full screen realtime firewire monitoring?

Vedran,

I'm using a Dell notebook with PPro to monitor the image and to capture the footage. It's fine as long as you have access to external power. If the laptop runs on battery power, the screen gets pretty dark (to save power) and it is quite difficult to see anything on a sunny day.

For some reason I still don't understand the capture window of PPro doesn't show the image in real time but about 1/2 to 1 second later than the action. Not a big deal but sometimes it is distracting. Also you don't get a full screen monitoring in the PPro capture window. There are always several menue items (like record and stop buttons and so on) on the screen.

In short: it's possible to use a laptop for monitoring but a proper external monitor is much better for that purpose. On the other hand you can capture your footage to a hard disk and have the back-up on tape all at the same time.

You should also consider DVRack. I use the software and find it very useful in my event work.

http://www.seriousmagic.com/dvrack.cfm

SN

I use DVRack also. It has a waveform monitor, vectorscope, audio analyser, screencapture feature and a nice field monitor which you can make full screen to help you focus. You see a bit more noise on full screen, but that's the laptop display. DVRack is very useful for me, especially for green screen work.

I was that impressed, I bought their Visual Communicator and Ultra 2 software as well :-)

Allan

Is there a similar program for the mac. I dual boot my macbook pro so I could run dvrack. I'm just wondering because then I could keep all my video work on the mac side of my computer.

Well, Final Cut Pro has the live waveform and vectorscope in the "Log and Capture" window. You should be able to use the firewire out on your camera, and set the capture options to non-controllable device and use the built in scopes.

I've never tried this myself, but it should work...

That's true I never thought of trying that. I'll give it a shot and post if it works or not.

Well I tried it under final cut pro and it does work as a monitor and you can monitor all the scopes and such however you cannot record the video in final cut pro be cause it requires the camera to be in VTR mode in order to capture the stream from the camera.

what if you set it to non-controllable device? Will it not record what the camera "sees"?

That might do it. I'll give that a try later.

Hey guys, I had my weapon for afew months now and I realise sometimes the viewfinder isnt sufficent enuff to help me focus, most of the time its 'trial and error'...

ANyone has any onboard monitor to recomment for the XL2??
Something doesnt cost a bomb too...

Thanks for reading, cheers
david, singapore

David,

Read through this thread I think you will find what you need. :-)
I ended up with the Varizoom 7" you may need a higher res monitor like the Marshall for focusing of course you will spend the $$$$ to match.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=68671

Bill

Hi kyle, yes thats exactly what I did, I see DIY-mounts like these...
http://cgi.ebay.com/BRACKET-combo-Canon-XL1-XL1s-XL2-for-LCD-MONITOR_W0QQitemZ140023889156QQihZ004QQcategoryZ50496QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Has anyone here tried one of these before?

Hi Bill, I read thru the thread, hows ur the performence of ur varizoom, and how portable is it when you are running around shooting stuff?

I have been searching around my country and I cant find dealers who can help me bring them in...
If I'm gonna buy it online, where do u think I shld buy from?

David, singapore :D

David,

The Varizoon 7" has worked out quite well, but I do not "run" around with it.
I have had it on the camera with a tripod and picked it up and moved it with no problems. For run and gun I have always used the viewfinder.

A good place to buy stuff here in the US is B&H good people and they ship overseas.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com

No experence with that ebaY thing seems too pricey to me.
Interresting but pricey.

Bill

I also use DV-Rack and I think it is a great piece of software - the focus and exposure cards are very useful. The latency is a minor annoyance but more than made up for by the host of other facilities.

One complaint about using a laptop in the field (or even in the studio) with a firewire cable is that firewire connectors are SO ridiculously flimsy and are easily pulled out.

When on location, I like to have the laptop a little way away from the camera in order to facilitate easy movement of the camera (I tend to keep it on a dolly when I can). I couldn't find a 4-pin to 4-pin cable length that was long enough so I bought a 6-pin to 6-pin cable (10m) and a couple of 6 to 4-pin adapters. And of course that makes it even more flimsy! Even using a shorter length 4 to 4 in the studio is a bit hit and miss. Clearly, a tape is still a required safety net.

Quite why the developers of firewire chose to adopt such a feeble connector I cannot understand.

That said, the removal of the capture process is a joy!

Ian . . .

One question I have is if you buy a monitor from B&H or w/e what do you use to mount it to the camera? Ive seen people mount it to the hotshoe, and on the back. How do you hook the monitor to the camera?

-Kyle

I just use a cheap (ha! actually very expensive for what it is) portable 7" lcd tv.

To be honest, I use it primarily for framing and focusing and not for colour balance, exposure etc. The refresh rate is relatively poor but it serves a purpose and means I can take my eye away from the viewfinder and direct off screen action as well. On a recent music video shoot I used it in b&w (the final format for the video) which gave me a great idea of what the pictures would look like, even though I was shooting in colour.

It's powered by 12v dc or 10 AA batteries and I get around 3 hours use from one charge. It's mounted to the XL2 accessory plate, using the car mounting that came supplied with it. The battery pack also acts as a stand which just gets in the way so I attach that to the accessory plate using a spring loaded clamp (looks better than elastic bands!).

I've attached a few pictures to give you a better idea.

Ian . . .

ps, and if you are vaguely curious, here's a link to some stills taken from the video itself http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=74761

Ian,

is it possible if you can take few more close up picture of the back of the LCD? i have the same LCD. Thanks

Hi James,

The camera/monitor etc is dismantled at the moment, in preparation for transportation to a shoot on Thursday/Friday.

I'd be more than happy to take a few close ups then (feel free to remind me!).

Ian . . .

Very nice work, now I just have to find that lcd in Canada

Riley, if you're talking about the LCD that I use, it's a Maxim MX11-47, if that helps you find one in Canada. I have to say that it is only really of use for framing and partly for focusing. The refresh rate is poor, as is the resolution. For the price, though, it serves a purpose. When I'm in a studio or other indoors location I use a laptop with DV-Rack - that gives me much better focusing, exposure, colour etc control.

If you're not talking about the LCD I use then I apologise for butting in and I'll shut up now!

I'm looking for a LCD Color Monitor to mount on my XL2 for $200 or less. I found this one on ebay. I was hoping for some suggestions.

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-LCD-Monitor-Canon-XL1-XL1s-XL-1s-XL-1-XL2-XL-2_W0QQitemZ180037576561QQihZ008QQcategoryZ21517QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I think I'm dreaming here. OK... better yet how much above $200 would I need to do to get something decent? I would like tha ability to view 16x9.

Ian, what kind of matte box is that?

Hi Adam,

It's a Formatt (www.formatt.co.uk). I'm reasonably pleased with it although it feels a little less sturdy than I'm happy with. Also it's impossible to use when there's any wind - it acts like a sail and the camera goes everywhere!

The 4 x 4 filters are very good, but the rotating stage is a little stiff.

Lastly, Formatt are not particularly good in the customer service department - they take ages to respond to sales enquiries, which really irritates me. I now buy through one of their dealers here in the UK who gives me the same price and next day service.

But, it was relatively inexpensive and (incoming sad admission) it makes me look good!

All in all I rate the box 6.5/10, customer service (from Formatt) 3/10. Given the same budget and the same need, I'd go for it again, but I'd buy through my dealer, not direct.

Hope that helps.

Ian . . .

I'm looking to purchase a LCD color monitor to mount to my XL2. I need something that will do 16x9. I'm thinking at least 7" wide. Budget is now up to $500. I can go a bit higher. Any suggestions?

Look at the Varizoom monitors. Not the best, but affordable.

Thank you Dave. Not a bad place to start looking.

For highest quality check out the Marshall Monitors in 16:9.

Thanks again for the suggestions.

This one looks like it's in my price range.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Search&A=details&Q=&sku=400388&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

Not crazy about the composite input. Does anyone think that makes a big difference over S-Video or R-G-B.

Thanks..

what im most interested in is something that will give me the best quality to tweak my camera settings. LCD color isn't as accurate as CRT or on a TV but the LCD is much more convienant and most of the time its the light thats different on the television. Whats the best to buy thats not going to make me go broke and I can mount on the thing? Also, are there any that people recommend that are aspect ratio switchable?

-Kyle

Thanks...

I find it difficult to focus with the small view finder. Also - I'd like to be able to fool with the presets in the field. I also find it hard to adjust presets using the small viewfinder. This is why I'm looking for a LCD.

Hi all
I just bought the xl2 after using the gl2 for sometime. Well my concern is with the lcd of the xl2. I love my lcd of the gl2, it really helps with adjustment for true color reproduction. The xl2 lcd is dull and difficult to rely on it to get the best image. I want an lcd similar to that of the gl2 and not big as the 7" that most recommend (give me reasons why the 7" is better). Since I am an event videographer, I will rely most on this on-camera lcd.
Secondly, the weight at the front makes it difficult to use the xl2 on your shoulder for a long time so I need a front end support for this camera (not so expensive) or even improvised. With my gl2, I had it on a monopod which was great.
Finally, I would like to thank all for your support and contribution to this forum

I have the same complaint about my xl2. 7" just makes it easier to view and perhaps focus (depends on resolution).

varizoom makes the 4 inch one as I recall and a 7 inch one.

Goto the gl2 list and there is a thread on lcds going right now. Grazie even put a clip in of his set up.

Remeber lcd's are not the best to actually see the colors you are actually getting. a small crt monitor would actually be more accurate, just not so portable.