Helicopter shoot

I’m planning to shoot the central Southern Alps of New Zealand from a Hughes 500 C helicopter. The owner/pilot tells me we shall take the door off and we will be about one hour in the air. I shall be well and truly harnessed in wearing warm clothing. I plan to shoot this scenic wonderland of ice and rocks using an EX1. I have zero experience with this sort of thing so I’m looking for tips. I presume I kind of lean out the side of the helicopter hanging onto the camera by the top handle and frame using the slide out LCD. Or would I be better to use the side grip and frame through the viewfinder. I have no idea. I imagine I should tie the camera to somewhere inside the chopper just in case. I would like to have a rough idea of what I’m doing before we get airborne as you might imagine. Experimenting up there is expensive.

Anyone shot out of a Hughes 500 C, or similar?

Suggestions most welcome.

You want to isolate the camera from the vibration of the helicopter as much as possible.

It'll be interesting to see how the rolling shutter of the EX1 will do in such conditions.

You don't want to have the camera past the door frame of the helicopter. The rotor wash will be really bad.

If you could get a gyro stabilizer, that would be the best bet. Otherwise try and use your arms to absorb the vibration and shake of the helicopter.

I've shot out of a bigger chopper in the past and it was allot of fun.

If you check out the site that makes the Cinesaddle, they have some aerial footage from a helicopter taken using their product.

Here's the site for the gyro stabilizers - http://www.ken-lab.com/ They have units for rent or should be able to tell you who has them for rent in your neck of the woods. Shooting some aerials from a Beaver a couple of years ago in Alaska I found exposure to be the biggest challenge as the light changed as we flew from mist to clouds and sunshine.

What I've seen done is attaching the camera to the roof or a handle on the roof of the helicopter with Octopus straps. Using about four straps will give you some buoyancy to move the camera around, absorb most of the shake and keep your arm from falling off from holding a camera for an hour.

Jealousy consumes me!

I have a major fetish for the south island (currently trying to set up a 3 month stint living in Queenstown - I normally work from home, so hopefully it'll be possible). Will you be posting any of the results? I'd love to see them.

There was a post about this subject awhile back that might provide some more answers.

http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=101593

Hi John,

I have shot out of a Hughes 500 and it is an excellent helicopter. I don't mean to be harsh but with a small hand held camera like the EX1 don't spend the money unless you use at least one KS-8 (Kenyon) gyro. This is from experience. It is even better if you use 4 gyros. The pilot might have a unit you can rent. The vibration is tough on the picture and you won't be able to zoom unless it is isolated from the helicopter.

As for sitting it is best if the back seats are out and you sit on the deck with your legs out while shooting. While you are shooting the pilot should not fly fast. Do not let the harness be attached to your back. It should always be where you can reach the attachment.

Most of all have fun. For me it is by far the best way to shoot and the Hughes 500 is loaded with power so in the right hands/feet it is a great ride. And South Island well God had a very good day!

Let us know how you make out.

Hey, did you manage to track down those stabilisers mentioned in earlier posts?

I'd be interested to know who has them for future reference, just in case I luck out and get my own trip over the mountains.

When are you going exactly? Are you flying out of Franz Joseph (I know there's three or four chopper companies flying out of there)?


CS

PS.

Paul, when you mentioned using 4 gyros, do you mean in a sort of a cross formation on a special plate to which the camera is fixed? Are such rigs available commercially, or made to order? A bit of quick math gets me to the whole lot having to be suspended from the aircraft door frame on elastic bungy type thingies - heck, with 4 gyros on board the thing would practically "do it's thing" without even being touched.


PPS.

On reflection, one wonders just how you would ever pan the camera with that lot attached - it'd be like pushing the USS Nimitz away from dock single handed!


PPPS.

Even further reflection brings to mind a fast CAT induced sidestep on the part of both chopper and you, with camera, plate and gyros deciding they shan't. Not so bad if they're moving rapidly away, not so much fun if they're coming at your head at 60 mph! Hmmm.

Thanks so much, everyone, for the excellent input. I’m checking availability of the kenyon labs gyros right now. I shall certainly use the Octopus suggestion. Don’t know when I’m going exactly, Chris. Depends very much on the weather and the availability of my second cameraman. The project is important but not urgent so I’m taking good time with the planning as we don’t really want to be fixing it when we get in the air. Yesterday I sat in the helicopter to get a feel for how to proceed. I need to re-visit and check out the sitting-on-the-deck idea which makes a lot of sense.

Paul, you advise…Do not let the harness be attached to your back! Right. I’m struggling to understand what you mean. I do need to be harnessed in, don’t I. Do you mean if I am constrained by the harness attached at my back I won’t have sufficient freedom of movement. My pilot tells me not only will I be wearing the usual harness but he will tie me in with a bit of rope or binder twine or number eight wire or something just in case I accidently snap open the buckle on the harness, which has happened, he tells me…just imagine, and no door. Do I really want to do this!

The helicopter company is Station Air Ltd. The pilot/owner is Laurie Prouting of Mesopotamia Station. Messie, as it is called locally, is located up the Rangitata River near where it begins its journey as glacier melt in the Southern Alps. Messie is one of the largest and most famous sheep stations in the New Zealand high country, third generation Proutings. We’re flying from Messie up the headwaters of the Rangitata River to the Garden of Eden and the Garden of Allah ice fields, and around and about up there. Yes indeed, God did have a very good day. I’m looking forward to the shoot, for sure.

If it works out and we make it safely home, and I have some decent footage, I shall share if I can. I’ll keep you posted. Suggestions, comments most welcome and appreciated.

Don't suppose you have room for another camera, do you?

(Big grin and chuckle!)

Well, it's worth a try.

Hey, I can be up there in oh, half a day, just tell me where, like a shot.


CS

John and Chris go to http://www.ken-lab.com/index.html and look under links for aerial exposures for their 2 - 4 gyro set up. I don’t think Chris Hurd will mind the link since none of the sponsors sell the gyros and the best way to go is direct. Kenyon Labs is an excellent company with outstanding product and quality all the way.

I use the 4 gyros set up on a R44 in Rhode Island and it is mounted to the seat by the door on that helicopter. Then I also own a custom Zacuto shoulder brace where I have one gyro behind my shoulder and one under the camera. All gyros on both systems are KS-8, which are the bigger ones. You can buy KS-12 but I have never used them. When the client won’t pay for the Aerial Exposure set up which runs about $500/hr then I use mine and charge them a lot less. Also my set up works when I am in one boat shooting another boat or just need to zoom long while hand held.

Chris the panning is easy you just can’t go fast since all 4 gyros are working to keep the camera steady. The system as I said is secured to the seat or deck by its base. The base has a 360-degree swivel where the two arms come up each side. Then the camera with the gyros attached hang off the arms with bungee so they can float free on a swivel shaft. Once problem with the EX1 on this system is you can’t get to any controls but zoom since that is all that is offered with a remote. Since you need to keep your hands on the two handles off the gyro base and have a VERY light touch. If you reach for the iris, ND, or other controls you loose the shot until you are back on the handles. The key is to let the gyros do the work and just guide it to the shot. You do have full pan and tilt. I have had full zoom in a helicopter with this set up and used the shot. Of course the pilot makes a huge difference. Most have a monitor set up so they can see what you are shooting. Also take the time to balance the set up out of the helicopter with your camera.

There are loads of gyro formation on the units I like the following. With my two gyro set up the one under the camera is in line with the camera lens and the one in the back 88 degrees perpendicular in the same plane when calm. When rough I put the one in the back perpendicular in 90-degree plane if that makes sense. So the gyro in the back goes from underneath to vertical in the back. Why 88 degrees well the experts at Kenyon say it is better to make the two work against each other. Sounds funny but it makes a huge difference compared to 90 degrees. I tried it and was amazed.

As for the 4 gyro set up there are two in line with the camera and two on 90 degree angle frame running down from the front of the camera and back of the camera also set at 88 degrees.

John my point with the harness is always having attachment point within your reach and not on the center of your back. But it sounds like you are in great hands with Station Air Ltd. And as I said a Hughes 500 is excellent.

I am sure you will have a blast and might even get hooked on the whole deal of shooting from choppers.

Paul, about 6 months ago I flew out of Myrtle Beach on a R44 with exact same rig you described. Even though the footage was good, I feel the next time it will improve drastically. Those 4 gyros really pull and any pan is a fight. Better to lock in and have the copter make your moves (just an observation). Does Kenyon have the specs for your set-up? Also, could that work on a small Bell bubble if you took out the left seat and sat on the floor?

Jack I agree it takes time to get use to using the Aerial Exposures set up. I have no problem panning and tilting even to where I get me feet in the shot at the end. But you are correct if you fight the gyros it is a problem.

Kenyon does not have my shoulder brace set up. I did talk with Kenyon yesterday about Yaw, Roll, and Pitch setup with my two KS-8's. I will be trying other options while flying a lot next month down south. As for using my set up in a Bell Bubble yes it would work. And you would not have to take the seat out you can use it sitting in the seat just like a shoulder mount camera.

Here’s an update regarding this shoot. With the kind input from all I fashioned a device on which to mount the camera loosely based on the ‘hi tech’ design described by Don DesJardin here:

http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=101593

I have posted photographs here:

http://www.dvinfo.net/gallery/browseimages.php?c=50

The construction is of 2.5mm slotted stainless steel 30 x 50 cm with a cradle 26 cm tall. I looked into using handlebars off a bicycle but opted instead to make individual handles over which I placed regular handlebar grips. As you might imagine this device is almost infinitely customizable. Everything can be adjusted back and forth in order to obtain the best balance. I plan to sit on the floor of the chopper with my feet dangling outside and position the handles such as to have a comfortable arms semi-outstretched position while keeping the front of the camera just out of the slipstream, hopefully, at least that’s the intent. I go for a ‘fitting’ in the chopper tomorrow.

The device may be too long in which case I shall lop a chunk off one end. I plan to experiment using a Nissan Safari with the rear doors open and the bungees attached up at the rear corners, and drive down a bumpy gravel road, very plentiful around here.

I have an eye bolt on top of the inverted u section under which the camera is mounted and I also have eye bolts on each side of the inverted u piece. Experimentation with the Nissan should enable me to determine the optimum attachment point.

Cost $250.00 Kiwis, about $195.00 US.

More as things progress. Comments and suggestions most welcome.

Chris, sorry; all seats taken very early in the game as you might imagine.

John

It being full and all, can't imagine how that happened.

Seriously, I've a bad attack of the "Green Eyed Monsters" over this but hope it's a blast for those partaking, you lucky sods.

Got to say from looking at your rig, it's a pretty typical Kiwi No. 4 baling wire design but looks like it just might do the job. Bloody well done. Most impressive.

I seriously DO hope it does the necessary on the day.

Keep us posted.

As an aside, did I bump into you in Wanaka on NY eve? There was a guy covering the entertainment down on the lake front waving around an EX 1(much to my utter astonishment) but he was working on a shoot for "someone" (hey, I was pretty well oiled so names just went in one ear and...........yep.)

I do remember him saying he had the first pre - production model in the country, so must have been popular with Sony then!

Doesn't sound like you from the little I know, and don't think he's here on DVinfo (could be completely wrong, of course) but just thought I'd check.


CS

John very innovative and could be a great way to go. I would also suggest you have bungee in a smaller diameter holding the unit down and too the sides. So say off at 45 degrees to each bottom corner of the door jam. Also of course a safety line from the unit to a secure part of the helicopter.

Very exciting stuff have fun and please let us know how it goes and post some clips.

Paul, and anyone else for that matter, care to comment regarding EX1 camera settings. OIS on of course, and do you suggest full auto, or what? I shall have my hands full just holding the camera I imagine.

Should I shoot progressive or interlaced?

Thanks for the suggestions regarding tying things down. That I shall do. Located bungee cords that are length adjustable and rated to support up to 85 kg made by Master Lock. Should be ideal for the main load carrying role.

Many thanks.

John

John yes OIS on, but I would not go full auto. I would pick what you want 1080 or 720 with the frame rate you prefer and go progressive. I have found that progressive works better then interlace while flying.

Then try both auto focus and manual if you are hovering. With iris try to get the pilot to head in one direction for each clip so you can set the iris then shoot a few clips. Some pilots like to circle the subject and this makes it hard to expose properly but can make dramatic shots. Don't be afraid to ask him to fly toward what you want to shoot since they want you to be happy with the flight.

I know it is expensive but experiment that way you can see what works in post. Also it does not take too long to change settings.

One thing I always like to do is shoot take off and landings to experiment with settings.

How did the fitting go?

How did the fitting go?

Great. I need to shorten the base plate by a little, but other than that; no problems, and the seat belt harness attachments are almost perfectly located to hang the camera in the best position. Shooting this coming week, hopefully, when the weather cooperates.

And many thanks for the setting suggestions. Probably shoot 30p. I have two 8 Gig S x S cards and we figure one hour flying time to cover the locations.

Still waiting for the weather to cooperate. In the meantime I’m playing around with various formats using the camera hand held. Looking at the files played back on a Dell m90 core 2 duo 24inch monitor combo it appears the 720 60p is the smoothest but this might be a factor of the playback equipment. Given that I won’t have kenyonlabs gyros this time what settings would you suggest I use to get the smoothest footage?

1080 30p or 720 60p or what?

Appreciate any feedback.

John

john flew yesterday an used 1080 30p but will try 720 60p later this week when I fly again.

I did have a very big problem with the camera yesterday that I have never had with other camera. 90 percent of the footage yesterday was junk due to horizontal banding moving up the frame at a steady 3-4 sec interval. The band is about 1/20 of the frame height and moves from bottom to top an only making it to the top 80 percent of the time. Glad it was only a 1/2 check out flight. Also I can not see it on the LCD only on FCP when at full screen. I can not attach a clip since my only on line access is my iphone which I am using now.

All thoughts welcome.

I also have noticed this problem while on a tripod this week when panning. But again I can not see this in the LCD while recording or viewing the clip after only in FCP at full screen. Need to solve today an tomorrow while it is rainning.

Oh dear, that’s not good! Are you sure the footage is junk? If you are not seeing the banding when viewing the clip then perhaps it is a FCP/computer problem. I imagine you have thought of that. Maybe try another computer. I use Vegas 8 pro so I’m no help with FCP.

I’m still working on determining the settings that give the smoothest footage. I believe I’m on the edge, performance wise, with the Core2 CPU T7400 @ 2.16GHz when it comes to playing the files. If the weather suddenly takes a turn for the better and we decide to fly today, which probably isn’t going to happen, then I shall shoot at 720 60p.

I think I might have found the problem. I am 100 feet from the main power lines into the Keys. That could be the problem so I will take the lap top as far as I can from the power lines an Test in 10 min. I agree since it plays fine on on the LCD the footage could be fine. If all checks out I will try 720 60p on Thursday while flying.

When are you going up?

Not the power lines but working on two other options an will know in a few hours. But I think it is a scratch disk problem since the full size QuickTime files play fine in QuickTime.

Well I have not solved the problem in FC but I am very glad to say the footage is great when viewed on the camera. I talked with Sony yesterday an we went through alot of options an it is a lap top or software problem. So for now three hard drive back ups an DVD DL back up until I get back to me edit station.

1080 30p was excellent choice for a one hour flight today. Up again tomorrow an will shoot 720 30/60p for some slow motion since it always looks better from the camera when flying. I will also try 720 60p at the same time.

Thank god the footage is good an it is a computer problem. I need a good big field monitor for play back from the camera. Any suggestions?

John have you been up yet?

John have you been up yet?

No not yet; the weather has been the pits. Right now it’s coming in from the south, very low solid cloud, raining hard, cold, 8 C (46 F) and I’m sitting here with the heater on twiddling my thumbs…and the weather forecast for tomorrow ‘rain, strong southerlies’. And this is mid-summer! Probably snowing up in the Alps. Sunday at the earliest is my guess, but more likely Monday or Tuesday.

Glad to hear your footage is great and that 1080 30p worked so well for you. Highly likely you will be able to report on the difference between the options before I get even close to flying so look forward to your observations.

Yes, a good big field monitor would be most helpful. I would even settle for a good smallish one. Most of the time I’m back to my workstation that day so haven’t had a big need. I was wondering if it might be handy to have one mounted near the pilot, plugged into the camera, so that he might see what I’m doing. I know there has been discussion here at DVINFO about field monitoring so instead of twiddling I shall take a look and report back. If I recall correctly a good big monitor will be costly.

Have a great safe flight tomorrow and I look forward to your thoughts.

I would be curious on how your camera support rig worked out, and what if any, adjustments you had to make.

Thanks for your interest Don, and for your initial input regarding design. I have only yet been able to test in the helicopter while on the ground and as a result I did reduce the plate to 38cm x 30cm. But regarding a real-world test we are still waiting on the weather to cooperate. With strong southwesterlies forcast for the next 2 days it might be next week before we get airborne. We really need calm conditions up there and while this shoot is important it is not urgent. So we wait…

John have you been up yet? I am on my way home today an did not get a chance to shoot 720p since the helicopter was grounded due to a bent rod. So instead we went into the back country in a flats boat.

So only two flights but enough footage for a satisfied customer.

Back to NE weather for two weeks.

John have you been up yet?

Not yet, unfortunately. Couple of days of decent weather this week but my pilot has been very busy supporting the high paying shooters from primarily the US, but a few from Canada also; the ones with guns, not cameras, and it’s Chamois, Thar and Red Deer they want to see in their sights, not the glorious vistas all around to which they are probably quite blind. I don’t understand what motivates these folks who will happily pay huge amounts of money just to kill a large animal in the wild.

We have a few enterprising hunter-type fellows here who support the rolling-in-dough shoot-to-kill crowd, one of whom I have met; his name is Bart. Well, one day not so long ago Bart gets a call from a very wealthy American asking if he can guarantee him a kill. Sure, says Bart, come on down, I’ve booked my hunting lodge for you, and we will get you a kill, I promise.

Large introduced mammals such as Chamois, Red Deer and Thar are getting fewer and farther between up there in the high country, which is arguably a good thing as they are considered pests by the conservation people, and the sheep station owners. But not to worry, Bart knows that so on the side he keeps a few tame domesticated Deer and Thar. So just before the hunter arrives he calls my helicopter pilot friend and they take one of these hand raised animals up onto an isolated spur in the mountains and plonk the unfortunate beast out on the rocks. I imagine the poor animal raised on flat green pastures among the ducks, chickens, pigs and happy farming people has never in its short placid life seen a rocky mountain and way up there alone is quite petrified. On the other hand maybe it simply enjoyed the magnificent view!

Next day the visiting hunter jumps in the chopper and my helicopter pilot friend takes him to where they dumped the bewildered animal and bingo, a few poorly aimed shots later, quite a few shots actually; our hunter is not a good shot but eventually he has his bullet-ridden trophy, and Bart and my helicopter pilot friend are laughing all the way to the bank. Go figure…

I digress. And now the weather has taken a turn for the worse again. I’m still waiting.

Did you use the Kenyon Labs gyros? I‘m seriously thinking I need one of those devices.

Ah yes the boys who say they are hunters. Oh well I guess they will never learn.

Yes I did use my two Kenyon KS-8 gyro set up and it works great. I am now home and will do a few small tweaks since I fly again in a few weeks on another job.

I hope you get to go up soon. Look forward to the positive report.

So today I finally got to go flying with Laurie Prouting of Mesopotamia Station in his Hughes 500 C up the Rangitata River and up over the Southern Alps. How extraordinary! The word ‘awesome’ gets very overdone these days but for once the word truly fits.

The weather was stunningly clear with just a few clouds on the West Coast side of the main divide, a rare day indeed in this part of the world. And mid-March here is late summer so no snow, just ice and rock up there at the top. Overwhelmingly beautiful. Magic.

We were flying for 1.1 hours and I shot most of it, the rig tied down where the rear right seat normally is located but we removed it and made fast the rig within which I had the EX1 suspended in a ‘spider web’ of bungees. I sat in the rear left seat and controlled the rig beside me.

In previous posts about this shoot I described playing around with plates and bungees. After a little more research and experimentation I came to the conclusion that I should bite the bullet and get a Kenyon Labs gyro. And so I did. That required a complete re-hash and so now we have Mark 11, an aluminum piece of modern art; no, make that post-modern art, that works like a charm, but one thing is clear; I need another gyro to take out the ‘up and down at the sides’ movement.

Other than that, the camera is superb. I set it in auto mode. I know that notion makes some of you DVINFO fastidious techy (anal) professionals wince. But listen; I’m in the back seat with the door off, 100 knots, extreme geography, bit bumpy; not a good time to fool with the controls I can barely reach; do more harm than good. I’ll fix it in post!

And seems that was a good decision. The exposure is by and large spot on, as is focus. Seriously, in these circumstances just pointing the camera and keeping one’s mind on the job, up there, is more than enough for me; forget about fiddling with the twiddles. The camera did a fine job. I am continually amazed what a fine instrument this is.

I need more time up there with this rig. I need to mount another gyro, attach a handle or two to control the cradle, and maybe an external monitor, say about 6 to 8 inch, just for aiming. I did find it difficult to read the LCD when we were up at the top in the ice and rock and clear blue sky. Huge amount of light and while the LCD held up very well there were times when I could not read the settings. Not that it mattered. But it was difficult to read the amount of time remaining on the card. Again, not that it mattered: the ‘media full’ notice appears on the screen just a few kilometres before we landed back at Laurie’s base.

The final delight occurred as we shot down the Rangitata Gorge, low, where, on this perfect summer’s day Rangitata Rafts were taking a few rubber inflatable rafts-full of adventurous tourist souls down the Rangitata white water, world class in thrills, and safety I should add, but Laurie tells me hang on - always like to give the rafters a bit of a show - and with that we dive down over the rafts and pull up hard and around tilted way over, I’m hanging onto the camera, if the rig goes out the door so be it, but I’ve got the camera and the gyro!

Smooth as silk…no worries.

Awesome!

Nice touch, Laurie. Probably just as well I was out of recording space!

Hi John,

Excellent I knew you would love it based on our conversations. And the Hughes 500 well a Porsche in the sky and sounds like a pilot who knows his machine magical combination.

I am glad you purchased the KS-8 and put it in line with the camera. And now you understand why I own two and have the second perpendicular to the first one. It makes a huge difference. Could you send a picture of your rig in the helicopter?

Full auto well until people fly in a helicopter they don’t understand what is needed to get the shot. Luckily I have my set up on my shoulder with the two gyros and can still be full manual but when using the Aerial Exposure I also have to go full auto. I have not used the Aerial Exposure with the EX1 so I am glad to hear you like the results.

The scene sounds spectacular and worth the wait. Please post clips when you get the chance. Also keep us posted on your next shoot and modifications to your rig.

I do look forward to visiting your area and that might happen soon rather then later.

Glad you are back safe and ready for more.

G'day John,

I was following this thread earlier in the year, but had completely forgotten about it until now. I've visited Mt.Cook National Park a couple of times and am hanging out to go back again. It'd be great to see any footage you have, did you post any of the stuff you got?

Cheers,
Tim

Morning Tim

The short answer is no, didn't post any footage the reason being I'm currently restricted to Telecom's wireless broadband in my Motorhome. OK for email and such like but as for moving huge files, forget it. New Zealand is quite primitive when it comes to Internet connectivity.

If and when you are over here we might be able to arrange something. I hang around between the Marlborough Sounds (where I am as we speak) and Central Otago with Mid-Canterbury being more or less the center of my comings and goings.

Cheers

John

I'm stuck living with wireless in Perth at the moment as well, I feel your pain!

Sadly I won't be back over until September/October, I'm trying to save up a big chunk of leave so I can have plenty of time to roam around. Still, I'll be sure to fire you off a message before I go to see what you're up to. Incidently, the words "Floating between the Marlborough Sounds and Central Otago" are going to make this a loooooooooooong day in the office :(

Cheers,
Tim