Hi all:

If you are in the market for a shotgun/cardioid mic, we just posted an article that you might find helpful http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/right_mic_brockett.html

Take a look. I hope that you find it to be an informative read. Let me know if you found the article to be a good resource.

Dan Brockett

Outstanding article. The clearest comparison of mic qualities (with explanations of what the qualities are) that I have read.

Very good to have the low-priced Audio-Technica and Octava mics included.

The detailed descriptions are very helpful. The comments on male/female voices and on handling noise were especially helpful. For example, I have an AT4073a and the descriptions point out what mic would be good to add to this.

I am looking forward to your review of the lavaliers. (And if possible, it would be nice to have a review of the PSC milimic. It seems this mic has some characteristics that are very good for certain situations, and it would be nice to see it compared to the others.)

Dan,

Outstanding article! Thanks for taking the time to evaluate all these models. And thanks for doing it in a "real world" sort of way and comparing them to each other. This is an excellent resource for new and experienced shooters/audio people alike.

THANKS!

Rob

Outstanding article. The clearest comparison of mic qualities (with explanations of what the qualities are) that I have read.

Very good to have the low-priced Audio-Technica and Octava mics included.

The detailed descriptions are very helpful. The comments on male/female voices and on handling noise were especially helpful. For example, I have an AT4073a and the descriptions point out what mic would be good to add to this.

I am looking forward to your review of the lavaliers. (And if possible, it would be nice to have a review of the PSC milimic. It seems this mic has some characteristics that are very good for certain situations, and it would be nice to see it compared to the others.)

Hi Jack:

Glad you found the article to be helpful! I have sent a request to to PSC to obtain a review copy of the Millimic. Hopefully they can supply me with one to test.

So far, the lavaliere article will consist of:

Tram TR-50B (Have it ready to go)
Sonotrim (receiving end of January)
Countryman B6 (Have it ready to go, also requested the EMW and B3 from Countryman)
Sanken COS11X (Receiving next week)
Sanken COS22 (Receiving next week)
DPA 4060 (Request has been sent)
Voice Technologies VT400 and VT500 (Request has been sent)
Sony ECM77/88 (Request has been sent)
Audio-Technica AT899 (Receiving next week)
Sennheiser MKE2Gold (Receiving next week)

So far, this is my lineup. Of course, I am at the mercy of the manufacturers and as I learned during the shotgun/cardioid tests, not all of the manufacturers will always come through with review copies. Sometimes it's politics, sometimes is availability versus schedule and sometimes it's non-responsiveness on their part.

If there are any other lavs not on this list that you want to see included, let me know. I am looking forward to testing all of these, it's always an ear opening experience.

All my best,

Dan

Hey, great review

couple of thoughts - could you take all the sample files and put them into one big ZIP file, with each section in its own folder. I don't know why you zipped each individual file, because it made listening to everything much harder. If they were MP3 files the browser would play them making for easier access.

Oktavamod version of the mic would of been interesting to hear as these are supposed to be more open and cleaner sounding due to upgraded mic electronics.

I'd been looking at a MKH50 and I'm glad I got to hear it because now I know I don't want it... unless its little kids doing dialog.

Would of been nice to hear a Audix SCX1 in the mix, a KM184, and a AKG blue line which I think would of rounded this out even better as those are also popular (hyper) cardoids.... P2 right ;)

thanks for the hard work & great review samples

no sony mic's ?

Dan,

Outstanding article! Thanks for taking the time to evaluate all these models. And thanks for doing it in a "real world" sort of way and comparing them to each other. This is an excellent resource for new and experienced shooters/audio people alike.

THANKS!

Rob

Rob:

Thanks for your positive feedback. I have been wanting to write this article for years but it takes a tremendous amount of time and effort to actually complete it. My thanks to Ken Stone for his support and numerous requests to get me off of my rear to actually write it ;-)

Looking forward to this becoming a go to article for video/film people who are always looking for a good, open-minded resource.

All my best,

Dan

Hey, great review

couple of thoughts - could you take all the sample files and put them into one big ZIP file, with each section in its own folder. I don't know why you zipped each individual file, because it made listening to everything much harder. If they were MP3 files the browser would play them making for easier access.
I am not really the web guy as far as the technology behind the HTML but my understanding was that we thought many readers would only want to hear one or two mic samples and it kind of kills us on bandwidth and server allocation if everyone downloads all of the samples. But I hear you and agree, perhaps we can make this as an option to just download everything if you want to (give a choice of a "download all files link" in addition to the individual files?)

I will see if this is possible.


Oktavamod version of the mic would of been interesting to hear as these are supposed to be more open and cleaner sounding due to upgraded mic electronics.
Agreed but I had to cut it off at some point. The most difficult thing about these reviews are that it takes a tremendous amount of phone calls, e-mails, letters, conversations, negotiation and begging to obtain review copies. Don't forget, I am not a magazine or huge website, it's just me, I have to do everything myself. I have no staff or even a PA so at some point I have to say, "okay, this it, these are the units I have been able to get my hands on, these are the ones we will test" I haven't even heard of the Oktavamod, who does the mod, what does it sell for? Sounds interesting but in my dealing with Okatava USA and Paul from The Sound Room, I had never even heard of this.


I'd been looking at a MKH50 and I'm glad I got to hear it because now I know I don't want it... unless its little kids doing dialog.
Just keep in mind that I did one set of tests with two voices only. I definitely do not claim to be the be-all oracle on mic testing. Personally, I kind of liked the sound of the MKH50 but I do agree that it has a somewhat colored sound style that works well with certain parameters and not so well with others. There are lots of professional sound mixers who regularly use the MKH50 and record great sound with it though so I wouldn't write it off. I think it's probably just not your cup of tea. That was my main goal was to give the readers a way to decide for themselves which mic would best suit their needs.


Would of been nice to hear a Audix SCX1 in the mix, a KM184, and a AKG blue line which I think would of rounded this out even better as those are also popular (hyper) cardoids.... P2 right ;)

I unfortunately heard about the Audix from Ty Ford but I was already completed on the testing and had sent all of the mics back. It became a matter of, "do I want to delay the article another month or two to include the Audix?" and my thought was "no, it's not worth it".

AKG refused to supply a copy of the Blue Line or ULS series mics to me, we actually had several conversations and in the end, I don't think that they wanted their mics included in the test. They just told me, "sorry, we have none available" even after I asked them several times over two months. Case closed, if AKG doesn't want to include their mics in the test, so be it, it's their choice. It's a shame because I have heard a lot of good things about the Blue Line and ULS.

Not saying it is never done but I have never seen a sound mixer on a film or television shoot use a KM184. Great mic, I have used it for recording music many times but I don't think that mic is on the radar of very many sound for picture users.


thanks for the hard work & great review samples

no sony mic's ?
Thank you for taking the time to check it out.

All I can say about the Sonys are I have VERY rarely ever seen film/video professionals use them. My experience with the Sony ECM shotguns, from way back in the 80s and 90s has always been that I think they make them because they are expected to. I think that they make them as a Sony branded mic you can hang off of your broadcast camcorder.

All my best,

Dan

Dan,

thanks so much for all of your work. It will really help me make an informed decision. I found your 2001 low cost shotgun article very useful many years ago, but I am ready to move on to better equipment, and this new article is just amazingly useful.

One playful thing you might consider for the lavalier article is to give the sound files with a letter key, but not the identity of the mics. That way readers could listen to the tests "blind" so to speak, before looking up the letter key. Transom did this at their site, and I found it useful. That way readers can judge the mic based on its sound quality, instead of its name or cost.

Hi David:

Thanks for your feedback, I am glad that you recall the older article as well.

I love your idea about the blind key, that is seriously cool. Do you think I should do that for all of the tests or id them for all of the tests then just add this blind test at the end to see of the reader has "educated" his ear by listening to all of the tests?

Of course, that is the goal with all sound gear, to buy what sounds the best to your ears for your needs. All of the brand prestige, price variance, etc. are fun but the bottom line is to buy what works best for your needs.

Thanks,

Dan

I love your idea about the blind key, that is seriously cool. Do you think I should do that for all of the tests or id them for all of the tests then just add this blind test at the end to see of the reader has "educated" his ear by listening to all of the tests?


Maybe others will add to this, but I think it would be great to have different letter keys for each type of test (Male voice, female voice, etc.), so that listeners could make a completely blind choice (if they wanted to do so without looking at the key first) for each type of situation.
In terms of what transom did, see

http://www.transom.org/tools/recording_interviewing/200508.mic_shootout.html

and

http://www.transom.org/tools/recording_interviewing/200608_handheld_mic_shootout/

In the first test, they used two male voices and one female voice, but used the same letter key for all three situations. I think it would be even more useful to use different letter keys for each of the three voices.

Also, I'd like to say that the photos in your article were artistically done and really added to the quality of the article.

Thank you Dan! Great to see all of these compared. Just from the way you described them I was able to get a good idea of their sound from recalling the mics I own and have used.

I've only used the Blue Line mics on one shoot but they probably do have a place in your article - too bad AKG was unhelpful. They're pretty much what I expected, overall good but not great; slight mid and lo-mid emphasis, decent clarity and rejection. They reminded me of an AKG C2000S I used in music studios, only more tuned for vocals.

Thank you Dan! Great to see all of these compared. Just from the way you described them I was able to get a good idea of their sound from recalling the mics I own and have used.

I've only used the Blue Line mics on one shoot but they probably do have a place in your article - too bad AKG was unhelpful. They're pretty much what I expected, overall good but not great; slight mid and lo-mid emphasis, decent clarity and rejection. They reminded me of an AKG C2000S I used in music studios, only more tuned for vocals.


Hi Abe:

Thanks for taking the time to check it out. It sounds as if you are my intended target as an audience.

Good to hear feedback on the Blue Line. It sure was a shame that we couldn't include them but what could I do?

I too have used the AKG large diaphragm condensers in the studio, they are nice although I like the Neumanns better ;-)

Dan

Hi all:

If you are in the market for a shotgun/cardioid mic, we just posted an article that you might find helpful.
Dan Brockett

Hi Dan,

As I noted elsewhere, Keep them lobars outside (in a non-reflective area) or in a tricked out interior space. Otherwise a well done piece.

Someone mentioned the Audix SCX-1 HC. I'll second that.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Hi Dan,

As I noted elsewhere, Keep them lobars outside (in a non-reflective area) or in a tricked out interior space. Otherwise a well done piece.

Someone mentioned the Audix SCX-1 HC. I'll second that.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Hi Ty:

Thanks for checking it out. Yes, I agree with the keeping the shotguns outdoors but you would be surprised how many pros I work with on big tv shows and features that don't adhere to these rules all of the time.

Yes, I wish I had been able to include the Audix, Rode and DPA but you can't have everything I guess. And I will say that most of the non-sound mixers or audio gearheads I speak with have never heard of any of these three brands of mic so I guess it's not too bad that they weren't included? I definitely wanted to include the name brands that most readers have heard of.

All my best,

Dan

Great article!

I wish someone would do something similar with just hypercardioids -- the Schoeps, Audix SCX-1, AT4053, Octava, AKG 483, etc...

Great article!

I wish someone would do something similar with just hypercardioids -- the Schoeps, Audix SCX-1, AT4053, Octava, AKG 483, etc...

Hi Ben:

But then someone will say, "I wish someone would do something similar with just long shotguns - the Schoeps, Sennheiser MKH-70, Neumann KMR82i, etc.

I can see it now, the next two years of my middle age spent testing and writing about just microphones...Ahhhhhhh, can't take it, can't breathe, thump (head slumps down on computer keyboard).

D

Incredible reviews.. well written....great photos... accurate info...!!!

But then someone will say, "I wish someone would do something similar with just long shotguns - the Schoeps, Sennheiser MKH-70, Neumann KMR82i, etc.


LOL, that is true. :)

Incredible reviews.. well written....great photos... accurate info...!!!

Hi Brooks:

You want to be my agent? ;-)

Dan

OktavaMod is at http://www.oktavamod.com/

they have some samples of large condensers on their site pre / post mod, but not the 012

to bad AKG didn't want to play. even so, it was worthwhile and well done. I'm sure it was a lot of work, but fun work !

I'd also vote against generically labeled clips. I opened them all up in QT player and spread the across the screen to listen. it was more useful for me to know what I was listening to. It served to confirm some experiences I'd had in the past with some mics which I didn't like ( pretty much anything AT ).

OktavaMod is at http://www.oktavamod.com/

they have some samples of large condensers on their site pre / post mod, but not the 012

to bad AKG didn't want to play. even so, it was worthwhile and well done. I'm sure it was a lot of work, but fun work !

I'd also vote against generically labeled clips. I opened them all up in QT player and spread the across the screen to listen. it was more useful for me to know what I was listening to. It served to confirm some experiences I'd had in the past with some mics which I didn't like ( pretty much anything AT ).

Hi Steve:

You didn't think that the AT875r sounded impressive for a $189.00 mic? I shot a two day shoot last week with it and I am listening to the results now on my Genelecs, I found it to sound better than most of my $500.00 to $800.00 mics.

Different strokes, right?

Dan

Hi Dan,

didn't know it was $189. for that price, ok, no complaints, its pretty decent.

its not like I'm a snob, I've just had some experiences with AT... there was this one time I did a 3 cam shoot with 3 PD-150's about 5 years ago and some how the main audio bag stayed home :(. the solution was to remove one of the PD-150's mini shotguns from the camera and mount it onto a C stand arm.... and ... well.... it was ok. not great, but certainly clean enough and went on to international distribution. I guess the point is without a side by side comparison, especially within a single piece, its ok. As long as its reasonably clean and understandable, no one except the trained ear will notice, especially coming out of a 3" speaker. with some EQ in post, maybe no difference. its when you put them side by side that the strong and weak points of a mic will become apparent. its not like any of them truly are junk - noisy, poor sensitivity, really funky sound like poor LF or HF - just different. I listened on my studio B&W speakers turned up a bit and you had to listen to hear the difference, the casual listener would think most of the sounded the same except maybe the MKH50 with its "live" in your face sound.

Hi Dan: That's an excellent piece, one of the best audio comparisons I've read, because you provide so much context.

I especially appreciated how you compared your expectations based on the mic's reputation against your actual findings, because there is so much conflicting opinion online--I found that very helpful.

I think it is the best data on the MKH-60 anywhere. I purchased this mic as a sound upgrade, and I've always liked the sound it produces, but I've read many negative things about it--the standard forum user line seems to be "designed to replace the 416 but not as good", which clarifies nothing and made me a little concerned that I had made a poor choice. But listening to your comparisons and feedback have put my mind at ease.

One thing that I still don't get--there are some differences in tonality between the MKH-50 and the MKH-60, but I still don't understand if there is a difference in their pick-up pattern. Is there? Can you clarify this? My (poor) grasp of this is that the 50 has a little bit more off-axis ambient range than the 60...true?

Great job! Now I can just send people who ask me this very question straight to your article.

In the category of "why didn't you..." (can you hear the audio god's hollow laughter???), I would like to see the addition of the Rode NT-2. Can you get on that right away???

...
In the category of "why didn't you..." (can you hear the audio god's hollow laughter???), I would like to see the addition of the Rode NT-2. Can you get on that right away???

never mind <grin>

Hi Dan: That's an excellent piece, one of the best audio comparisons I've read, because you provide so much context.

I especially appreciated how you compared your expectations based on the mic's reputation against your actual findings, because there is so much conflicting opinion online--I found that very helpful.

I think it is the best data on the MKH-60 anywhere. I purchased this mic as a sound upgrade, and I've always liked the sound it produces, but I've read many negative things about it--the standard forum user line seems to be "designed to replace the 416 but not as good", which clarifies nothing and made me a little concerned that I had made a poor choice. But listening to your comparisons and feedback have put my mind at ease.

One thing that I still don't get--there are some differences in tonality between the MKH-50 and the MKH-60, but I still don't understand if there is a difference in their pick-up pattern. Is there? Can you clarify this? My (poor) grasp of this is that the 50 has a little bit more off-axis ambient range than the 60...true?

Great job! Now I can just send people who ask me this very question straight to your article.

In the category of "why didn't you..." (can you hear the audio god's hollow laughter???), I would like to see the addition of the Rode NT-2. Can you get on that right away???

Hi Meryem:

Thanks so much for your lavish praise. I am glad that you are finding the article helpful, that was my intention, to provide a place where anyone can just go and read about and listen to these mics. I have no bias for or against any of them, I tried to be open minded in approaching how they sounded to me. Bottom line is that you can make up your own mind from listening to them. Everyone hears and listens for different qualities.

If you look at the polar patterns that accompany each mic in the "contestants" section, that will show you exactly how each microphone's pickup pattern compares to the others. There is a definite difference in the pickup pattern between the MKH-50 and 60. The 50 has a wider pattern, so you will hear more ambient sound than you will with the 60 in mids and lows. If you look at th little dotted line in the pattern, you can see with higher frequencies, the 60 picks up a much narrower angle than the 50.

As far as the Rode, nope, didn't include any Rode, DPA, MKH-416, AKG, Gefell or Audix microphones. I tried to really go for the mainstream brands and up until lately, I had never heard a buzz about the Rode but it seems over the past 6 months, it's the go to cheap mic. At some point, I had to cut off the trying to obtain samples process and just test what I had so I did not get any of the above mics.

Best,

Dan

I wish the author had just linked to the mp3's rather than zip files of them...it would make the review much more interactive. I stopped following the test based on the amount of work I had to do to hear all of the samples. Rather than just previewing them in separate browser windows, I had to download, unzip, locate, than play them...I gave up, too time consuming.

I wish the author had just linked to the mp3's rather than zip files of them...it would make the review much more interactive. I stopped following the test based on the amount of work I had to do to hear all of the samples. Rather than just previewing them in separate browser windows, I had to download, unzip, locate, than play them...I gave up, too time consuming.

Sorry Cole:

Free web page/massive information resource + no advertisers or sponsors = massive bandwidth bills with no way to pay them.

If you have free server space and bandwidth for us and will host all of the 52MB per viewer download each time someone clicks on the page, we will be glad to move the media to your server and embed all of the MP3s into the page as many are asking for. So far, about 4,000 views in three days. I think over a month or year, if the article has "legs", you will see about 50k to 100k views x 52MB ea. Yikes, that's a mess O' server space and bandwidth.

Did I mention the website is free?

Just educating you to the financial realities of life on the web,

Dan

if you got 100K full downloads X 52mb, thats 5.2gigs. in a year thats really nothing. most real ISP's give you 100g+ per month of transfer for well under $10/month. 1and1 is 2000g per month ( at least on the server package I have for a client). their base plan is $18 for 3 months, so thats not really much to worry about.

as for zipping the files, a best about 10kb or less per file was saved. another way to think about it. everyone who has to decompress those files uses up some CPU time doing the work, burning a few watts of electricity. if it were just 10w X 100K downloads, thats 1 MEGAwatt of electricity used just to decompress the zip files. most of the power comes from green house gas emitting coal power plants. sometimes seemingly small things have significant effects. the internet consumes huge amounts of power, something like 5% + of the power used in the US.

that said, if a couple of people are willing to put up some space so the DL's could be shared, I'd be willing to be one host and spread the load around.

...Take a look. I hope that you find it to be an informative read. Let me know if you found the article to be a good resource.

Dan Brockett

Well done Dan. You have certainly assembled an excellent resource. Be ready to do it all again in 5 years.

if you got 100K full downloads X 52mb, thats 5.2gigs. in a year thats really nothing. most real ISP's give you 100g+ per month of transfer for well under $10/month. 1and1 is 2000g per month ( at least on the server package I have for a client). their base plan is $18 for 3 months, so thats not really much to worry about.

as for zipping the files, a best about 10kb or less per file was saved. another way to think about it. everyone who has to decompress those files uses up some CPU time doing the work, burning a few watts of electricity. if it were just 10w X 100K downloads, thats 1 MEGAwatt of electricity used just to decompress the zip files. most of the power comes from green house gas emitting coal power plants. sometimes seemingly small things have significant effects. the internet consumes huge amounts of power, something like 5% + of the power used in the US.

that said, if a couple of people are willing to put up some space so the DL's could be shared, I'd be willing to be one host and spread the load around.

Hi Steve:

My math may be wrong but isn't 52 megs x 100k expressed as a file size of
43620761600000 bits
5452595200000 bytes
5324800000 kilobytes (abbreviated as KB or Kb*)
5200000 megabytes (abbreviated as M or MB)
5078.12500 gigabytes (abbreviated as G or GB)
4.959106 terabytes

Big difference between 5GB and 5TB, right?

Dan

Well done Dan. You have certainly assembled an excellent resource. Be ready to do it all again in 5 years.

Hmm...you think we'll all be using those old fashioned "microphones" in 2013? ;-)

Dan

Excellent, excellent work Dan. I cant remember when I saw a side by side with so many mics included. Helps people make choices or reaffirm those already made.

I have to say I am guilty of using a boom mounted shotgun indoors a lot, because I use the CS3 and its incredibly versatile in this manner. And when I switch from an an Interior to Exterior, my sound whilst different because of ambience has a similar quality to it across the board. I find if I need to I can fake other components where needed.

Hmm...you think we'll all be using those old fashioned "microphones" in 2013? ;-)

Our microphones are probably the only things that won't be obsolete in 2013. :)

Excellent, excellent work Dan. I cant remember when I saw a side by side with so many mics included. Helps people make choices or reaffirm those already made.

I have to say I am guilty of using a boom mounted shotgun indoors a lot, because I use the CS3 and its incredibly versatile in this manner. And when I switch from an an Interior to Exterior, my sound whilst different because of ambience has a similar quality to it across the board. I find if I need to I can fake other components where needed.

Hi Noel:

So glad that you like the article, doing all of that recording and playing back was a real ear opener for me as well. Nothing like hands-on testing to really help you decide what you like. Unfortunately I really fell in love with about half of the mics, but I did the math and I don't have a spare $10k for mics burning a hole in my pocket ;-)

The CS-3e is a really nice mic, I am sure that it records some great sound for you.

All my best,

Dan

Hi all:

Just wanted to let all of you know that I just delivered a show to a client today that was shot with the Audio-Technica AT875r, the lowest cost mic I tested. It sounds very good, I am so impressed with this little microphone. Mostly just interviews but in a real, pretty noisy location. The end results were superb.

Best,

Dan

Hello Dan, and thank you for your effort to deliver such amount of audio info about the mics. Also I want to ask you if I can connect an AT875r to a HDR HC1. Do it work if I'll connect it directly to my cam(no phantom power) or do I have to provide ph power to it? Can you recommend me a suitable mic for my HC1 if this AT875r it's not good?
Thank you,
Alin

Not saying it is never done but I have never seen a sound mixer on a film or television shoot use a KM184. Great mic, I have used it for recording music many times but I don't think that mic is on the radar of very many sound for picture users.

Dan

Quieter than the Schoeps but too wide a pattern.