Just wondering if anyone has tested a SD lens on the HPX500 and what they found the results to be. Would be interesting to see a comaprison, or just some standard frame grabs from that of a SD lens. I have seen numerous posts saying that SD lenses can produce very acceptable results, even on HD cameras.

ALso, with the HPX500 CAC, would this help when using a SD lens?

Thanks
Kit

Kit,

There's a thread that I posted before that talks about older canon broadcast SD lens. I still have the lens so I can try shoot something if you have anything that you wanna see in particular.

Basically, SD lens look fine with close-ups but you would notice the sharpness problem on the wide angle shots.

I will look for the clips that I shot before and post it on my blog.

By the way, CAC only works when the appropriate lens (CAC compatible) is attached.

Thanks Kaku.
At this point, i am just looking to get into some cameras, preferrably the HPX500's or 555's, but I would like to slowly get into them. If I could start with some SD lenses and work my way up, that would be awesome. This way, I can obtain everything I need much faster and easier.

If you have some time, I would appreciate ANY footage you can put together very quickly. Just a couple random shots with the 500/555 & sd lens - outdoors in your back yard or from a balcony or anything. Don't worry about composition or framing, just a couple quick zooms and pans at: #1 1080 30p, #2 1080 24p, and#3 regular SD. Trees, buildings, people, whatever. I just need to see if I will be able to produce acceptable quality video with a SD lens for the time being.

Ideally, my goal would be to produce something in 1080p, but if that is not possible but SD is, the I'll accept that route.

Thanks again Kaku. And if anyone else has the capability of doing this, that would be great too.

I tried a friend's SD wide angle 2/3" Canon (good quality) & found it to be softer than the Fuji CAC. Sorry, deleted the shots long ago.

I tried a friend's SD wide angle 2/3" Canon (good quality) & found it to be softer than the Fuji CAC. Sorry, deleted the shots long ago.

Thanks, Bob.

But when you say "softer", do you mean that it looked blurry or was it just not quite as crisp? Did it yield acceptable results if you were not directly comparing the 2? Did you get a lot of fringing and CA?

Thanks
Kit

Just not as crisp as the Fuji CAC. Acceptable.... hmmm... probably, for the non-purist-hyper-critical person. Saw no fringing or CA, but the scene I used it on didn't have much contrast (where I believe it's easiest to spot). FWIW, remember it was a wide lens. Really just threw it on to see what'd happen... noticed it wasn't as crisp, but decided it'd work if necessary. (Better a bit softer than no shot at all, right?)

It is better a bit softer than no image.

I'm not looking for something super critical here. I just want something that people are going to go "WOW", especially compared to what you see on TV. Bob, would you say that the image with an SD lens natively looked comparable to a compressed TV image you would see on an HD channel? I'm just looking for "acceptable" right now so I can get into some nice cameras here. The lens upgrades can come later. But I know that if we go that route, we can't just get into something if the image is just going to look blurry to the average person.

So, in your opinion, do you think that the image would look good to the average person watching it on a regular television or on a low end projector? I'm stepping up from JVC HD-110's here. It's going to all be compressed to DVD for the time being anyways.

Thanks
Kit

Oh yeah, it wasn't "bad" in any way (keep in mind that CA wasn't an issue doe to location). I also didn't play with the zoom range much... we had a wide angle along on a certain shoot because we thought we might need it, we did, so took a moment to grab some A/B footage of the scene. Not a good evaluation in any way, just a quick off-the-cuff deal.
If you already have good SD glass, why not run with that & buy an "upscale" CAC lens later? We've had some superb posts about how CAC really does work. So that combined with a non-breathing zoom would be something special.

Oh yeah, it wasn't "bad" in any way (keep in mind that CA wasn't an issue doe to location). I also didn't play with the zoom range much... we had a wide angle along on a certain shoot because we thought we might need it, we did, so took a moment to grab some A/B footage of the scene. Not a good evaluation in any way, just a quick off-the-cuff deal.
If you already have good SD glass, why not run with that & buy an "upscale" CAC lens later? We've had some superb posts about how CAC really does work. So that combined with a non-breathing zoom would be something special.

That seems to be the general consensus. Theoretically, people have been saying without a CAC lens or HD on this will be disasterous, but from all the people that have actually tried this method, they're saying that a SD lens produces acceptable resulte. While not "ideal", as long as they are acceptable, that's good enough for me. In an ideal world, we wouldn't even be having this conversation and I would be out shooting on my HPX3000's...Maybe some day...

ohhh.... you want a 3000? I'll loan one of 6 I have, free, for 3 years, if you *really* want a 3000..... ;))

ohhh.... you want a 3000? I'll loan one of 6 I have, free, for 3 years, if you *really* want a 3000..... ;))

LOL, HPX3000......? If so I am good for it..... LOL

Kit,

I will do the quick test on Saturday for you. Hang on.

Kit,

I will do the quick test on Saturday for you. Hang on.

You are awesome, Kaku. Thanks buddy, I look forward to it. Planning to get my first 500 hopefully in the next week.... Possibly even ordering it tomorrow. I don't know that I will be purchasing the lens at the same time or from the same company, looking for a good used solution and awaiting feedback from my friends on the forums such as yourself. I really appreciate it!
Kit

I briefly tested in front of my office, but very old broadcast Canon lens performs really well. It's so old so the focus would affect the zoom (how you call it?) but if you get relatively new broadcast SD lens, it would be mostly fine. I will post some results later.

Kit,

What computer platform do you use? What video format (interlace or progressive) and what type of compressed format do you want (H.264?)?

Hey buddy,
I use PC/Windows and currently edit with Vegas, but will probably be switching to Edius or Speededit for editing Natively to P2. We plan to shoot 1080 24p or 30p for most projects. You can encode in whichever format you like.

Thanks
Kit

Hey buddy,
I use PC/Windows and currently edit with Vegas, but will probably be switching to Edius or Speededit for editing Natively to P2. We plan to shoot 1080 24p or 30p for most projects. You can encode in whichever format you like.

Thanks
Kit

Good, I will do 24p. Just wondering what format is going to be good to give you because I'm with Mac. Full size H.264 be feasible enough?

Good, I will do 24p. Just wondering what format is going to be good to give you because I'm with Mac. Full size H.264 be feasible enough?

Shouldn't be a problem. I have quicktime pro and have never had a problem playing H.264 files before, so it should work out great.
Thanks!
Kit

And for everyone else, if you guys have anything to contribute, please feel free to jump right in

Gawd, rained out this morning.

Here's the quick clip that I shot yesterday. Nothing fabulous though.

But I think broadcast SD lens works really well.

http://www.onebikeguy.com/KakugyoBlog/Podcast/Entries/2008/1/12_AG-HPX555_with_sd_lens.html
(The large file is taking long time to upload, so please visit again later for the 1080 file)

Seriously looks fantastic! That's awesome. What's funny is that I hear all these people saying "don't use a SD lens, you'll get terrible results". I say it's all a BS marketing scheme to sell the HD lenses. If they really didn't want anyone using SD lenses, why did they keep the same mount? Nobody has posted any footage to make me think that this method would yeild bad results. And the uprezed chips of the 500/555 look awesome too. I don't care how they do it, it looks great! I'll check that 1080 video later. Thank you soooo very much, Kaku.

Just a quick question though - What lens did you use? If you could let me know the exact model number, I would appreciate it.

WOW. I'm freakin excited. Now I can afford so many more cameras it's not even funny.

Here's the lens.

http://www.onebikeguy.com/KakugyoBlog/VideoBlog/Entries/2007/7/23_Canon_J13x9B_SD_Broadcast_Lens.html

This lens is the really classic one. But it is actually really souped up by Mr. Sekiguchi from Appex, the Canon broadcast lens dealer.

iWeb is having problem posting the large file, but it seems you already see the potential.

Yeah, and you can pick those up on Ebay and used places for less than $100. Very cool.

By the way Kaku, I went ahead and posted your video over at the DVXuserforums because we have a good discussion going over there too..
Thanks!
Kit

np.

I'm still having problem posting the large file.
Now I zipped it and uploading but not sure it's going to work.

Kit,

I had to upload the whole sites in the iWeb to make the file work but it is now completed.

Kit,

Keep in mind the kit lenses that were offered with the camera with CAC were specifically designed for the 500 both optically and electronically. And while a high-quality SD-broadcast lens will work nicely with the 500 you'll get superior results using the CAC lenses designed for the 500.

I don't think it's on this forum anymore, but just before the 500 was released I posted a sample of the Canon CAC lens showing the CAC control on and off; there was a significant difference in CA reduction and looked *almost* as good as an HD-spec lens. That same Canon lens was later used for a commercial shoot where we used it's amazing Macro capabilities as well as it's wide-angle performance. An amazing lens for the price - can't remember the model number of the lens but it was the more expensive Canon.

Using one of the SD-lenses on the 500 is sort of like using manual-focus Nikkors on an auto-focus Nikon; it will work but it's not always going to give you the best results.

Thanks Robert.

If you have been following some of my posts and comments regarding the 500, bith ere and at the dvxuser forums, there is very compelling evidence that the SD lenses look almost as good as the HD lenses. Some have said that certain lenses look better! But the whole point of the posts are that SD lenses can be acceptable. When you are doing a side by side comparison, of course you're going to see a difference, but to me anyways, looking at a SD lens without comparing it side by side to a better lens looks great.

To get into an ENG type camera package for just over $11,000, with body, lens, batteries and a P2 card is very promising as nothing else even comes close without buying a used camera. But even then, it's hard to find.

Yes, the kit lenses are designed for the camera, but they start at $6500. If you don't have the money for that, you can get a nice lens for less than $500 and save $6000 and it doesn't appear that the jump in price versus the quality increase is worth it.

BTW, thanks for the link to the Edius...I may just take you up on that in the next few days...

Kit