http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/05/canon-introducing-dual-flash-vixia-hf10-f510-and-f511-camcor/

FYI...

How about that... Engadget scoops everybody else by posting a snapshot from the CES show floor during booth setup, prior to the start of the event. Well, I can tell you that there's an embargo on all of this stuff until Canon announces everything on Monday (standard operating procedure, it's like this for every major show, CES, PMA, NAB etc.). As soon as their press releases go live, I'll have all of this for you right here on DV Info Net: images, specs, feature sets etc. and much more.

Chris,

Engadget may have the scoop, and no real details. But in the end I always rely on DVInfo for the reliable and real news/info. It is good that you keep the trust and stick to your embargo agreements. That level of trust may allow you access to the real nitty gritty important specs and details that the some other guys don't really cover and can't becuse of scoop stunts.

Thanks for being ethical. I just happened to stumble on this.

Can't wait to see the real detailed info here.

David

What amazes me is the level of access some of these entities get *despite* their stunts... and I'm not singling out Engadget, they're not alone by a long shot. But what I've found is that the more sensationalist the source is, the more likely that they get the details wrong, and I find a certain statisfaction in that because we make a point of getting it right here at DV Info Net.

I'm glad you posted this, David... but my jaw dropped a little at the simplicity of the scoop... someone from Engadget has access to an Exhibitor's badge and gets in to the show floor during setup, walks by the booth and snaps this photo. What I want to know is... where are the photos of other booths? Canon ain't the only one exhibiting during CES...

I've been waiting to hear something about a Canon HV30 or similar.

I need to get an HV20 this month but if the specs look good on these, and they are out soon I may get one.

If they do use AVCHD I hope they take advantage of the full 24Mbps. As from what I've read most AVCHD only does 12-15 Mbps and you can still see artefacts after compression


At least the HV20 may drop in price a little after Monday (even though it's already a great deal)

I just bought an HV20... should be getting here early next week.

Oh well, that's technology.

How's the old adage go? One in the hand...

... better than 3 in the booth?

I knew Canon was gonna come out with something like this- or I should say I was "hoping" they would!
Very interested!!!!!!!

I just bought an HV20... should be getting here early next week.

Oh well, that's technology.

How's the old adage go? One in the hand...

... better than 3 in the booth?

I'm guessing, like the HG10, these cameras (at least consumer level ones like HV20) will not be as amenable to manipulation as the HV20. I hope I am wrong....

Having a built-in flash drive and a removable memory card slot is a good idea if I do say so myself.
http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?p=625523#post625523

Paulo,
You're a man ahead of his time.

I think we're seeing the end of tape for consumer camcorders.

Cheers.

It even looks like Sony took one of my ideas as well when I said Panasonic should get rid of the tape drive and increase the size of the imagers.


What I want every company to do is replace all of their mini-DVD HD camcorders with Blu-Ray and replace all of the HD hard-drive camcorders with flash this year.

Dual media recording to both internal flash memory and a removeable SD card is brilliant and long overdue, I only wish they had done it sooner, and this is a feature I wish Canon would have implemented on their PowerShot digital still cameras long ago. I can't tell you how many times I've been with friends who have taken a great shot on their cameras, with no way to share it with anyone else without having a laptop handy... and who carries a laptop when you're partying in some club in Vegas at 3am. The obvious benefit of dual memory is immediate file sharing, and saying goodbye forever to the old reply of "I'll email it to ya later," which as we all know doesn't happen nearly as often as it should.

Now if only Canon would bring their Elph cameras up to date with dual memory... but there's always PMA, happening a month after CES, so we'll see what happens.

I'm not not interested in any consumer optical Camcorder. Flash is enticing because of the lack of moving parts, battery savings and no laser to worry about and much smaller size.

Looking at the SDHC cards they are dropping in price rather quickly and in a year or two a 16GB card should be under a c-note.

Hmmmm makes me wonder if Canon's Pro and Prosumer lines will eventually move to some sort of carriage like the P2 where you can hold 4-6 SDHC cards for maximum storage and maybe even some redundancy of data.

The future is certainly Flash. With SSD poised to take over the laptop segment in the next half decade this will spill over into our segment.

Somebody pop the champagne...the democratization of Video Production is underway and gaining momentum.

Agreed. Can't say for sure because I really don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if Canon's HG10 is the only consumer hard drive camcorder they ever produce. Internal flash memory recording is superior to fragile hard drives, I just hope they move quickly on taking these improvements to their pro line HD camcorders very soon.

To really make these media card camcorders appealing- the manufacturers should allow for user selectable codecs or bit rates so that advanced users could specify codecs or bit rates they want while allowing the consumer market to default to AVCHD or whatever spec is available for "long time" recording.
HDV was really good as it quickly became editable across platform with relatively good performance- but since it's a "Tape" based spec there were no camcorders that could record to that spec other than tape based cameras.

Give us "Selectable Codec/Bit rates" and everyone will be pleased!!!!!

Can't wait to see what Canon brings to the table with these new camcorders!!!

Dual media recording to both internal flash memory and a removeable SD card is brilliant and long overdue, .........
Forgive me if this is a silly question, but why BOTH internal flash and SDHC cards? I can see why solid state, and SDHC seems a good choice, but why then have internal memory as well?

I hear what you say about immediate file sharing - but couldn't that be as well achieved with card to card copying? Use the cost/space of the internal flash drive to provide extra slots/extra cards - 4 SD slots shouldn't take up very much room.

I could see multiple card slots on pro gear... such as currently found on some D-SLR's which have both an SD and a CF card slot. On consumer gear I think internal flash plus one card slot makes sense. Here's another advantage: hot-swap cards while recording; the internal flash provides a recording buffer during the swap. Nothing wrong with the dual-slot or multiple slot concept, but I think they're doing internal flash "because they can."

To really make these media card camcorders appealing- the manufacturers should allow for user selectable codecs or bit rates so that advanced users could specify codecs or bit rates they want while allowing the consumer market to default to AVCHD or whatever spec is available for "long time" recording.
HDV was really good as it quickly became editable across platform with relatively good performance- but since it's a "Tape" based spec there were no camcorders that could record to that spec other than tape based cameras.

Give us "Selectable Codec/Bit rates" and everyone will be pleased!!!!!

Can't wait to see what Canon brings to the table with these new camcorders!!!

I will defiantly be getting one of them, and since there are three, good chance Canon might have made some of the AVCHD bit rates higher than the HG10. I image thought he image processor will be the same as the HV20/HG10, and will likely have 24p as well. But really I just wanted something more compact than the HG10, and was leery of the Sanyo HD1000, so I figured wait to CES, and Canon delivered (hopefully anyway because they look awesome!).

Does Canon do their announcement today or tomorrow?

Tomorrow morning (that is, Monday 7 Jan., the first day of CES).

Steve, I too wanted something very compact and read good things about the HG10- but ended up getting an XactiHD1000- which is allot better than its given credit for....at least it's not AVCHD and you CAN edit on a pc or Mac....here's a quick raw clip showing it's indoor performance which I think isn't too bad at all-
http://www.stevenunez.com/hosted/bikerear.mov

But I WILL be getting one of these new Canon's if they perform as good or better than the HG10!
Let's not forget- Panasonic Unveils Two New High Definition Camcorders: HDC-SD9 and HDC-HS9 at CES as well- might be an interesting battle between Canon and Panny!

I am very impressed with the Panasonics as well...they added 24p...should be very interesting to chose between the two...can't wait for Canon to reveal the full specs on their new line.

Steve, I too wanted something very compact and read good things about the HG10- but ended up getting an XactiHD1000- which is allot better than its given credit for....at least it's not AVCHD and you CAN edit on a pc or Mac....here's a quick raw clip showing it's indoor performance which I think isn't too bad at all-
http://www.stevenunez.com/hosted/bikerear.mov

But I WILL be getting one of these new Canon's if they perform as good or better than the HG10!
Let's not forget- Panasonic Unveils Two New High Definition Camcorders: HDC-SD9 and HDC-HS9 at CES as well- might be an interesting battle between Canon and Panny!

Steve, was wondering if you had used a Canon HV20 and if so how it compares to the HD1000? I had a HV20 that broke, so I go a new one that I have yet to open. The idea of going tape less really interests me, but not to fond of AVCHD. Also I do a lot of in car taping and the HV20 has not worked for me. So might change over to a different camera.

Also I assume that these new Canons are AVCHD?

Duane, as far as I'm aware all these small consumer HD cams are indeed AVCHD (unfortunately.) The Xacti is unique in that it doesn't use that codec but one very similar called AVC/x.264 which is a type of mpeg-4 which many NLE's can edit no problem.

I haven't used a HV20 myself but have had a HV10, XH-A1 and various other Canon cams and the Xacti will not deliver the image quality of those cameras. Those cameras all record to tape in the HDV spec which is far superior to any of the non-tape codecs being used today (with the exception of Pan HVX proHD codec and Sony's new EX camera.) The Xacti excels as a quick point & shoot consumer HD camera but wont produce stellar broadcast quality footage- it does produce nice footage under the right circumstances, but even the HG10 is superior. Having said that- I'm actually found of it and wish for a few improvements and enjoy using it as is.

I am however going to keep a keen eye on these new Canon and Panny cams and see what reviewers have to say- I'm always in the market for something new to add to my collection.