Should videographers who use full auto mode on their camera's be considered professionals.

depends. in some news gathering situations you just dont have the luxury of time, auto is the only choice. But if you have time to do setups, auto is not your option.....

Corey

Why are you asking this question?

Stelios

did a basketball tournament, and shot 2 games in auto (sony hc7) big disaster, everything way to yellow. used my sony walkman as monitor, but it did noy gave me the right colors.
tyank god the customer just wanted to see the players/ game, but no more auto for me.

pro·fes·sion·al /prəˈfɛʃənl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[pruh-fesh-uh-nl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1. following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain: a professional videographer

are you asking if a videographer that makes a living using a camera on full auto still makes a living making videos? the answer is yes.

I'm asking because the company i work for has to hire videographers around the country. We do real estate video's. The people who are hired are supposed to be professional. However, I can tell that some are in full auto mode. We panning across a room the camera compensates for the room, then when it reaches a window it compensates for outside. This makes the room dark and the features are lost. Also, when using auto focus, the camera is trying to focus on everything in front of it during the pan.

Also, when shooting exteriors, the camera may try to compensate for the sky and we lose details in the buildings, espcially if the buildings are in the shade. I was just looking for input. I don't use auto mode for this because I like to control the situation. I have to edit a lot of these videos and sometimes the video is so bad, I have to go and reshoot the whole project. I was wondering what other's thought about this.

If the light level ramps up and down, or focus hunts then they could be professionals, just bad ones! I'd have to admit to using auto exposure quite a bit , but only when it suits. I'm quite quick are switching in and out of auto iris, but sometimes, you have to work out which is more likely to give better pictures - sometimes auto is essential - other times not. I don't own any cameras that have auto focus so can't comment on that one - personally, hunting focus looks dreadful under any circumstance!

did a basketball tournament, and shot 2 games in auto (sony hc7) big disaster, everything way to yellow. used my sony walkman as monitor, but it did noy gave me the right colors.
tyank god the customer just wanted to see the players/ game, but no more auto for me.

You probably could have fixed that with some color correction in post.

I'm asking because the company i work for has to hire videographers around the country. We do real estate video's.

A significant portion of my income comes from real estate video and virtual tour projects. The human eye is capable of managing a much larger dynamic range of both luminance and color than any camera. I always use manual settings to insure my images have a very natural look. In my opinion manual settings are the only way to get consistent quality images that will honestly represent the property. Occasionally an auto setting of an outdoor scene has the potential of working with the other images, but only on a case-by-case basis. I would consider the auto settings you describe as distinctly amateur.

Waldemar, you understand what i'm talking about since you shoot real estate videos also. These people are asking for day rates and they are not delivering quality footage. I don't know if it's their first time shooting real estate videos, but it's not working for them. Not to offend anyone, but i can put a camera in the hands of anyone in full auto mode and show them how to pan and tilt. Especially since the camera is doing the work and they're only moving it around.

I don't consider myself professional yet, but I DON'T use full auto, pffft! If someone is claiming to provide a professional service and claim to result in professional looking footage AND use full auto - something is wrong. Full auto is point-n-shoot, $200 camcorder stuff. Most "pros" will use a pro or prosumer level camera and at that level they SHOULD be using manual or they are wasting resources and potential. I mean that is the equivalent of shooting a hollywood production and then taking the footage into Windows Movie Maker for post, not pro at all.

I've seen this here when calling to scope out the competition for certain niche work. One guy claiming to be a pro, had an amazing website, pro level high prices, but was listing a friggin' hi-8 camcorder as his primary!!! I viewed some of the sample footage and you could see that it was full auto, exposure flux, bad auto focus seeking, etc... I think he spent much more time on the website than learning how to use ANY camera.

Waldemar, you understand what i'm talking about since you shoot real estate videos also. These people are asking for day rates and they are not delivering quality footage. I don't know if it's their first time shooting real estate videos, but it's not working for them. Not to offend anyone, but i can put a camera in the hands of anyone in full auto mode and show them how to pan and tilt. Especially since the camera is doing the work and they're only moving it around.

Clearly, you need to have the security of knowing the footage you receive will meet a quality standard and the shooter you hire needs fair compensation. It doesn't appear to be balanced at this point. May I suggest you interview based upon submitted samples and then offer an exclusive 6 month to one year contract? I'm sure the effort of advertising for qualified videographers will more than pay for itself in the long run.

If you represent properties in my geographic region, feel free to PM me. If you are more focused upon the South and South East, PM me as well, as I can recommend a talented young videographer in the Houston Area.

With small prosumer camcorders like the DVX100 or HVX200 I sometimes use auto iris and/or auto focus - when I shoot eng-style stuff where I have to be quick and don't have a chance to repeat a scene. Try holding a HVX200 and quickly adjust iris and focus while moving around and still getting steady shots - it's almost impossible... with a shoulder mount you can do everything at the same time, and quickly (which is why I think handhelds are not a real option for eng shooting).

I never use auto white balance (it always looks crappy, better find a medium wb in advance and cc a little if needed) or auto gain.

In the scenario that you described I think it is highly unprofessional to leave even one setting in auto mode!

The people who are hired are supposed to be professional. Generally speaking, you get what you pay for. If you're seeing full-auto results then perhaps you're only paying a full-auto rate.

You need to look within your own organization and determine what mistakes *you* are making to cause these solicited video clips to be submitted in full-auto. Have you taken the time to present a set of guidelines describing exactly what you want? In other words, are you telling these folks in writing how you expect their video to look, i.e., manual exposure only, no full auto, etc.? Are you communicating with them in advance to tell them that you can't use video shot in auto mode? It is your responsibility to clearly communicate to these people exactly what your expectations are, and to pay them enough to make it worth their time. If you haven't taken these steps, then you have no one else but yourself to blame for solicited video that isn't usable.

At any rate, I fully agree with Allen Plowman: yes, videographers who use full auto mode on their cameras should certainly be considered professionals if that is indeed how they're making a living.

I think the *real* question in this thread is, what steps can be taken to insure that solicited video is shot in manual mode and not full auto. And I think the answer is to communicate ahead of time clearly to your shooters that you can't use clips that were shot in full auto.

Thanks for everyone's opinion on this subject. I wanted to pass it on to the people I work for. I don't hire these people. I only edit what they've shot. I agree you have to use auto in some circumstance's. In staged circumstances, such as real estate I don't think so. When we shoot "Cheaters" we have to go full auto when we jump out of the van's. There's no good way to adjust iris and focus when you're running behind people and things are being thrown at you. Also, with 8 cameras, you will always have a shot to work with.

Also, I didn't mean professional in terms of a dictionary technical description. If someone shot footage that was dark, out of focus and colors were off. Audio cuts in and out and they edit it on a low-end program. If they get paid for this are they too considered professional. Would you hire them?

With small prosumer camcorders like the DVX100 or HVX200 I sometimes use auto iris and/or auto focus - when I shoot eng-style stuff where I have to be quick and don't have a chance to repeat a scene. Try holding a HVX200 and quickly adjust iris and focus while moving around and still getting steady shots - it's almost impossible... with a shoulder mount you can do everything at the same time, and quickly (which is why I think handhelds are not a real option for eng shooting).

I never use auto white balance (it always looks crappy, better find a medium wb in advance and cc a little if needed) or auto gain.

In the scenario that you described I think it is highly unprofessional to leave even one setting in auto mode!

some camcorders like mine [for outdoor use]has best colour with auto white balance.fx-7

Also, I didn't mean professional in terms of a dictionary technical description. If someone shot footage that was dark, out of focus and colors were off. Audio cuts in and out and they edit it on a low-end program. If they get paid for this are they too considered professional. Would you hire them?

Based on my experience, professionalism has as much to do with attitude, effort and skill as it does one's camera setting. I shoot full manual and full auto probably 50/50, just depends on the context.

Waldemar, you understand what i'm talking about since you shoot real estate videos also. These people are asking for day rates and they are not delivering quality footage. I don't know if it's their first time shooting real estate videos, but it's not working for them. Not to offend anyone, but i can put a camera in the hands of anyone in full auto mode and show them how to pan and tilt. Especially since the camera is doing the work and they're only moving it around.

IMHO, the difference between a professional's skills and a wannabe is not in whether he uses ever auto modes or not, it's that he knows when he could use auto modes to make his workflow more efficient and when he can't because quality will suffer. The bottom line is the pro knows what constitutes quality footage, knows how to get it, and does whatever it takes to deliver it.

Steve, I agree with you. You've said a lot. I guess we've run across wannabees who are trying to pass themselves off as professionals.

Corey -

One thing I learned long ago is it's not the tool it's guy handling it. Someone that knows how to shoot might be able to get good footage with auto settings in the appropriate circumstances, but they need to know when to take control and how to do it.

I think the suggestions for minimum standards/guidelines are good - you'll scare off the "uncle Bob" and "Johnny just took a class in school" types, and you won't have to pay for crap footage.

You really should screen and get demos of similar shoots before you even hire anyone - it's no obstacle, they could shoot their own house if they don't have a reel and want the gig. And you don't have to try to polish a t**d when editing!

Another idea might be to put together a "show reel" of what level of quality you are expecting, sometimes that will inspire and pull better quality out of someone who "thinks" their stuff is great, when it "isn't"...

i am kind of surprised how some of you talk down to the beginners. i think that is an excellent question (post1)

haven'd you all started out as a beginner?
what makes some of you to "professionals" ? did you go to school, have a ba in video recording/ camera handling etc.?

isn't the idea of this board to exchange information and experiences?

Thanks for everyone's opinion on this subject. I wanted to pass it on to the people I work for. I don't hire these people. I only edit what they've shot. I agree you have to use auto in some circumstance's. In staged circumstances, such as real estate I don't think so. When we shoot "Cheaters" we have to go full auto when we jump out of the van's. There's no good way to adjust iris and focus when you're running behind people and things are being thrown at you. Also, with 8 cameras, you will always have a shot to work with.

Also, I didn't mean professional in terms of a dictionary technical description. If someone shot footage that was dark, out of focus and colors were off. Audio cuts in and out and they edit it on a low-end program. If they get paid for this are they too considered professional. Would you hire them?

your original question did not address your concern, I gave a specific answer to your question. you later clarified your concerns and got reasonable answers. had you asked if a lousy videographer should apply for the job, the answer is: why not? in my opinion, the bad guy here is the company that hires the substandard workers. My guess is, they hire the lousy ones for peanuts, they pay you to clean it up a little, and quality doesn't seem to matter as much as price. I am considering getting into the video tour market, and I personally would rather film at dawn or dusk so the camera can actually capture not only the room itself, but the view outside the window. if a person sets the camera to manual, and the view outside the window is not shown clearly, are they a lousy videographer?
does a really talented videographer do real estate videos that apparently tend to pay about 75 dollars each?
would I hire the lousy videographer? no I would not. why does the company you work for hire them in the first place?
do people not qualified for a job still try to get the work? of course they do!
maybe the lousy videographers in question have no clue they are not the best in the world. when a lousy video comes to you, are you able to tell the company to never hire that person again? what methods of background checks do they do? or are you merely ranting that there are some people less qualified for the job than yourself?



These are strictly my opinions, and I will stand behind them until I change my mind

Would you call a driver who don't know how to drive a car with manual transmission a professional?

The whole point of technical progress is removing manual work and making it automatic, be it driving a car, washing clothes or shooting a video. Would you refrain from buying a camera that shoots in full auto better than in manual on a premise that it will make you a non-professional?

It is not auto vs manual, it is whether their video good or not. I would just point out to particular problems in their video and would ask to fix them. I would not care how exactly it was shot.
When we shoot "Cheaters"...
I hate those who set people up, who shoot and then broadcast something that was supposed to be private. I don't know how much shows like these are staged, but to me they are revolting. Sorry for hijacking the topic a bit.

I agree with Michael, there are a great many film shots that CAN be shot on full auto, with the right operator

when a lousy video comes to you, are you able to tell the company to never hire that person again? what methods of background checks do they do? or are you merely ranting that there are some people less qualified for the job than yourself?


When a bad one comes in, of course I tell them to never use that person again. I'm not sure about the background checks. The people probably direct them to some of their better looking vids don't entail the same shooting scenarios. I edit and shoot what i'm assigned. No i'm not ranting. I'm merely voicing my opinion in a discussion. I only wanted to see what other's thought.

The footage that I get that's bad is shot in auto mode. If you know how and when to use it, good. If not, leave it alone if your on a job for someone else. I've read everyone's thoughts. Some were very good and I understand where they are coming from. Especially about delivering the best footage no matter what method was used to get it. Some people, however, seem offended about this whole auto mode discussion. I wonder why. I started shooting on betacam sp when I was 19. It was manual so I learned how to handle situations from a eng standpoint. There was no switch to move that would let you point and shoot. Just wondered what were the thoughts from everyone about people who buy cameras and start soliciting jobs without knowing how to really make the camera work for them.

i am kind of surprised how some of you talk down to the beginners. i think that is an excellent question (post1)

haven'd you all started out as a beginner?
what makes some of you to "professionals" ? did you go to school, have a ba in video recording/ camera handling etc.?

isn't the idea of this board to exchange information and experiences?

I don't think a "beginner" should be passing themselves as professionals. There are so many places you can learn and books and ways to access equipment to learn, so I don't really think that's acceptable. You don't expect your plumber to be a "beginner", inexperienced perhaps, but they'll have the basic skills and knowledge.

I don't want to go as far as the film camera assistants, who in one instance asked, when one clapper loader said in the camera truck he couldn't load a Steadicam mag, "whats he doing here?" In that world, the clapper loader shouldve been practising the previous day; I know other assistants who would've been a bit more supportive, but it's a tough business. BTW They did teach him to load the mag.

Regarding auto modes, unfortunately the small cameras are rather poor at shooting fast in full manual. The software controlled lens are slow to react compared to the manual lenses, so you're sometimes forced to use auto, however, the best compromise can be to allow the auto to set the iris and focus and switch to manual.

However, a cameraperson who can only shoot in auto is limited in what they can do. Full auto can be acceptable on some fly on the wall documentaries, although the subject matter has to be interesting to avoid the in focus wall behind the subject becoming distracting.

Here's a noodle baker ~When is someone considered a pro? I've been working with a camera and NLE for 7 years and still KNOW I need much more experience/education to utter the words "I'm a pro". Is it consistently producing quality material? Is it making a living with camera/NLE? Is it working with celebs?

Only recently in the last couple shoots we've done have I started to become truly elated with what ended up on tape. Having an industry "pro" compliment my work last week on a private project was a great feeling. What is the separating line between pro and proficient?

Corey, your original post was vague, I think that started the offensive ideas. you made it sound like a good videographer should never use full auto, with no explanation of your reason for your post. you later explained very good reason, that your company is having difficulty with underqualified workers. is it possible to make the agreement read that payment will be made after footage is reviewed? when a tape is dropped off, possibly at least look at a few spots on the tape to check the quality of the videographer? from what I gather in your posts, you seem to imply that putting an ad stating the company only wants professionals will ensure that you get the product that you want, every time. I feel that the company is at fault here for hiring underqualified workers. and as far as the original post, I feel a professional will use every tool at his disposal, and if a shot requires full auto for some unknown reason, a good videographer will not hesitate to do so. I also feel it would be virtually impossible to get good real estate videos on full auto. I have not yet done a video tour, but I am intending to start this summer. your thread has given me a lot of insight of potential pitfalls.

Here's a noodle baker ~When is someone considered a pro? I've been working with a camera and NLE for 7 years and still KNOW I need much more experience/education to utter the words "I'm a pro". Is it consistently producing quality material? Is it making a living with camera/NLE? Is it working with celebs?

Only recently in the last couple shoots we've done have I started to become truly elated with what ended up on tape. Having an industry "pro" compliment my work last week on a private project was a great feeling. What is the separating line between pro and proficient?

The basic difference is Pro is short for professional, which means you're getting paid.

However, you can have a professional approach in the sense you plan and work in a well structured, knowledgeable manner, but you're not a pro in the sense you're not earning your living from it.

An amateur is someone who does something for the love of it - as a hobby -they can be talented filmmakers, but they don't wish to earn their living from it. But it's often used as an insult towards disorganised professionals lacking in skills. Unfortunately the word tends to have more of the latter meaning these days and so people call themselves Indies, which in industry terms is a film make outside the studio system.

You can also have professionals who have the amateur's love for what they're doing. That is, they're in the fortunate position of earning their living from their hobby.

The basic difference is Pro is short for professional, which means you're getting paid.

However, you can have a professional approach in the sense you plan and work in a well structured, knowledgeable manner, but you're not a pro in the sense you're not earning your living from it.

An amateur is someone who does something for the love of it - as a hobby -they can be talented filmmakers, but they don't wish to earn their living from it. But it's often used as an insult towards disorganized professionals lacking in skills. Unfortunately the word tends to have more of the latter meaning these days and so people call themselves Indies, which in industry terms is a film make outside the studio system.

You can also have professionals who have the amateur's love for what they're doing. That is, they're in the fortunate position of earning their living from their hobby.

Very well put!!

some camcorders like mine [for outdoor use]has best colour with auto white balance.fx-7

Are you talking about the auto white balance or the "totally automatic" auto white balance? Of course I'm using auto white balance a lot (that is: use a white card and hit the "auto white" button). I was referring to the automatic auto white balance mode, where the camera adjusts colors every time you pan from shadow to sunlight. I don't like that because it gives you no control over when the white balance changes, it doesn't make colors look better than if you white balance manually (using the "auto white" button). Totally manual white balance, like with studio cameras, isn't possible afaik with most (all?) shoulder mount or handheld camcorders.

Just my two cents (forgetting semantics). People who shoot in auto mode in situations like you described (where there seems to be time and control to make things right) should not be hired if you want good footage. Actually, considering that we always want good footage, these people shouldn't be hired at all. I mean, what are they doing? Sure, they're framing things up but after that, the camera is doing all of the work. That's lazy.

I understand the value of certain auto modes in certain situations. While I've never employed auto iris or WB, I'm thankful for auto focus in situations where I don't have an assistant or time to get marks and pull focus myself. That said, if I'm in an interview setting or shooting something controlled, I'm on full manual and I get great images. It's just impossible to get consistent quality with auto because the camera doesn't know what you want. It knows what's too bright, or the color temp of the most dominant light source, but that's it. If you don't care that the windows are blown out because you want the interior of a room to be the focus, the camera cannot possibly know that.

Somehow there are a lot of people out there who don't work or act like professionals but make money doing it. I don't get it and I don't like it, but that's life. I do my best not to work with these people. If you have the power or influence to do the same, fix it. If for some reason the people who hire these people (and I assume hire you as well), don't bite, why don't you ask for more money to compensate for all of the extra time you have to spend fixing all of the unprofessional footage?

Anyway, good luck with this.

~~Dave

Are you talking about the auto white balance or the "totally automatic" auto white balance? Of course I'm using auto white balance a lot (that is: use a white card and hit the "auto white" button). I was referring to the automatic auto white balance mode, where the camera adjusts colors every time you pan from shadow to sunlight. I don't like that because it gives you no control over when the white balance changes, it doesn't make colors look better than if you white balance manually (using the "auto white" button). Totally manual white balance, like with studio cameras, isn't possible afaik with most (all?) shoulder mount or handheld camcorders.

How do you continually manually alter the white balance whilst panning if not in auto white balance

The basic difference is Pro is short for professional, which means you're getting paid.

However, you can have a professional approach in the sense you plan and work in a well structured, knowledgeable manner, but you're not a pro in the sense you're not earning your living from it.

An amateur is someone who does something for the love of it - as a hobby -they can be talented filmmakers, but they don't wish to earn their living from it. But it's often used as an insult towards disorganised professionals lacking in skills. Unfortunately the word tends to have more of the latter meaning these days and so people call themselves Indies, which in industry terms is a film make outside the studio system.

You can also have professionals who have the amateur's love for what they're doing. That is, they're in the fortunate position of earning their living from their hobby.

Word. I agree.

Maybe instead of using the word 'professional', we should use the word 'expert' in this context.

There are plenty of professionals who are not experts, and there are certainly experts who don't operate for profit. So I can see a professional using "full auto", but if that mode makes the footage unusable or rough, then I wouldn't call them an expert.

Although, an expert will tell you that there is a time for full auto as well; maybe real estate isn't it though.

How do you continually manually alter the white balance whilst panning if not in auto white balance

I don't, that's the point :)
If you use totally automatic white balance and shoot an object in the shade, the color is neutral white, then let's say you zoom out slowly until you reach full wide angle. While you zoom out, more and more parts of your frame are lit by nice, warm, yellow sunlight. Then suddenly, while still zooming, your camera says "hey, that's not white anymore" and auto white balances. The nice yellow sunlight becomes neutral white and the object in the shade turns blue. You won't ever see something like that on tv because every editor will reject it, it looks cheap and amateurish.
What you do in such a situation is either use outdoor preset, or find a medium white balance manually. Shade is allowed to look a little blueish, and warm sunlight must be yellow to look like warm sunlight - I won't let my camera decide what colors have to be white

My first thought is what does full auto have to do with being professional?
You could shoot in auto..manual..10 minutes of each, back and forth and still be pro or rookie.

At the end of the day you are paying for clips that your film crew couldn't film properly..so not only are they not pros, their poor camerman period.
How big are the files he sent you..what format?


http://www.metacafe.com/watch/939635/2007_worlds_jetboat_racing/

2 z1-u's and an xl1s full auto or full man???
rookie, amateur, semi-pro..pro ??

lol

Guys I am a professional videographer. I have shot over a hundred weddings. Twenty two local commercials and a couple national spots. I assisted in one feature movie and have produced a documentary that has sold over ten thousand copies at Wallgreens Vallareo and HEB stores. And yes I have shot real estate video one thing that you said that bugged me was day rate. It has been my experience that someone that ask for day rate usually wants more than they are willing to pay for. If you want a Pro you will have to pay for one.

I shot a real estate video of multi million dollar facility. The construction company owner wanted to lead a tour thru the facility. He asked for a day rate and he wanted a pro. We started out side worked our way around the facility then moved to the inside. At this point I had already walked a mile carrying my equipment setting up and shooting and moving and shooting twelve different setups. My sound person helping shuttle equipment from spot to spot. On the inside we toured over one hundred rooms halls, lobbies, foyers, entrances, at a joggers pace. In order to keep up I had leave my tripod behind mount a light and mic to the cam and go hand held. And yes it was necessary to use auto mode. That was the last time I worked for a day rate. I knew I was being taken advantage of as soon as we moved inside, I knew he was expecting top notch footage, but was not giving the time it takes to get it. Under the circumstances the footage looked pretty good. Holding the cam on monopod with light and mic like a steady cam wearing a battery belt stopping only to change tapes for two and a half hours. My back was killing me the only reason I did it was because I had said I would. And I live up to my word. In my mind I keep telling my self that this is a lesson I will not have to relearn. No more day rate. No more compromise. If you want pro we take time to shoot like a pro. If you want run and gun you get auto mode.

Ron, day rates (or even half days) are normal in the tv business, a little running and carrying included. In Germany tv stations expect a team with a shoulder mount camcorder - and therefore no auto-mode shoots. I recently shot for Pro7 (national station) and we offered either a HVX200, or Betacam SP - they said they wanted the Beta, or they won't book us at all. The quality of the Beta might be a little grainier than the HVX (in SD on MiniDV), but I was glad I didn't have to use the HVX. The shoot was only inside an apartment, but it was very documentary and with a few people around. I shot 2 hours of footage without once using a tripod, mic receiver and light attached to the camera, battery belt around my waist. No problem with the shoulder mount, and needless to say I shot in full manual.

I am fully aware of day and half day rates in the (TV business) I just don’t have them. I get paid for all the time I work. If you don’t then I am sorry for you.
In the shoot I was talking about I was hand held for almost three hours and that was after the outside shots. If that is what you call a little run and gun then we don’t use the same definitions.
Congratulations on shooting for a (national station.) I am not sure why you are comparing your little interview with a shoulder mount beta cam to mine or insinuating that I am some how deficient. But I assure you I am up to the task. This is a little of subject of auto mode and can it be used in a professional setting.
I am not saying that you should shoot in auto mode all the time. You should be in manual most of the time. I am saying that there are times when auto mode is useful. If you have never been in a situation like that then maybe you have not really been challenged yet. After you have been doing this for a wile you may find yourself in a situation where auto mode looks like a good option.

Any freelance professional camera people I know all charge daily rates (although some do charge 1/2 days), with the overtime start depending if they're working on 8 hr, 10hr or 12 hr days. The daily rates varying depending on the day booked and the type of production. This applies on everything from docs, commercials to feature films. On longer running productions you do get weekly rates.

Having recently shot Steadicam with Digibeta on a corporate for a major construction company you really need to work things out. You should tell them that you need to recce before you actually shoot anything on the day. Usually this involves leaving the camera gear behind in the camera car/truck, walking around and discussing what's needed and you making suggestions. This may involve telling them the best approach and for them to make priorities, otherwise they will have you filming everything.

Doing this enables you to ask for a trolley if there are any large distances involved. Also, often the client will offer help to carry gear once they see the logistics.

Shooting hand held can apply on all types of production and they mightn't be so the called "run and gun" productions. Three hours is pretty common on many productions.

I also charge a day rate.

My day rate is my hourly rate multiplied by how many hours are in that day. I don’t have any trouble getting it and I have plenty of work.

I still don’t see what this has to do with the original topic.

I also charge a day rate.

My day rate is my hourly rate multiplied by how many hours are in that day. I don’t have any trouble getting it and I have plenty of work.

I still don’t see what this has to do with the original topic.

I think it was you saying:

"And yes I have shot real estate video one thing that you said that bugged me was day rate. It has been my experience that someone that ask for day rate usually wants more than they are willing to pay for. If you want a Pro you will have to pay for one."

It's just that most professionals don't work by the hour only by the day. The reason being that you usually can't work for anyone else. Sometimes this may only involve actually working for a couple of hours, but they still charge for the full day.

Most producers know how most they can shoot within their scheduled day and budget accordingly, so the industry standard is the daily rate. You do get hourly rates in post production, especially when working with high kit, however, unless you're careful, you can go seriously over budget.

The producers who you do need to be wary of are those asking for an all in deal.

Regarding the original thread, it seems to be agreed that professionals do use the auto mode when it's appropriate for the shot(s) in hand.

Brian, that is a very good point the all in one deal is what I avoid. I work hard and I want to get paid for my work.

Now I have donated my services on many occasions when the cause is good or the project is fun and I can learn something.