Well, I have all my Vegas issues working and now I am editing at home. Unfortunately, no one in the house appears to enjoy listening to the same audio over and over. I am looking for a good set of headphones to use during the editing process.

Price is an object, but I need to know the truth on the quality of sound I can get from good to professional headphones. Also, these phones will be working from the PC outputs. I think that the impedance of the headphones will be a concern also.

Anyone with recommendations?

Thanks in advance,

Chris

Sennheiser HD-25 is my first choice for just about everything. If you need high impedance then look at something like BeyerDynamic DT-100.

Whatever you decide, look up the specs, look for reviews. For editing you need to be listening to everything as "flat" as possible.

You cant go wrong with Sony MDR7506 , most audio guys tend to love these, and they average under $100.

You can do lots of editing on headphones, at the cost of some fatigue.

You'll want to do all final eq, compression, volume and pan decisions on speakers, unless you anticipate your viewers using headphones.

Fostex T-20 or Sony MDR-7506. T-20's have been an industry standard for years, like the AKG K-240's. I've had a pair of T-20's for over 10 years, they are very rugged and a nice defined sound with flat response. 7506's have been very popular over the last 7 or 8 years as well. They are a little juiced up sounding but still relatively accurate.

As mentioned earlier in this thread it would be wise to recommend mixing out the final mix through speakers as this is the only way to fully hear the spatial stereo mix. Headphones are isolated left/right sound sources and do not give the imaging a good set of reference monitors would provide. EQ and other accoustic elements can also be somewhat misleading on headphones compared to monitors.

I do know what you mean by people being frustrated by the same audio being played over and over. Much of my initial draft work is done with headphones but I will still always do final mixing, level setting, eq and processing while playing through near field monitors.

You cant go wrong with Sony MDR7506 , most audio guys tend to love these, and they average under $100.

yes, those headphones are solid field and studio performers.

I recently picked up a set of AKG K271 and they are definitely one step up from the 7506. However, they are much more difficult to transport, very bulky. $155 shipped from various places on the web

I'm moving the 7506 to field duty and bringing the AKG to replace it in the editing studio.

I agree Seth. Headphones tire me out and ultimately I stopped using them. It is not possible to accurately manage the audio with headphones, as least that has been the case for me. But there are simply times I have to wear them for the same reasons Chris needs them.

I used to be firmly on the K271 (or, for less money, K240DF) wagon, but I'm really fond of the Shure in-ear monitors. The response on the e4c is flat as can be, and the quality of the sound-field knocks the K271s for a loop.

The e2c's are a nice low-cost alternative. It comes down to whether you're more comfortable spending your time with things in your ears or on them.

I purchased the Sony 7509HD which has proven to be a great move. The frequency response is excellent and they are comfortable to wear all day.

Go to a music store in your area and try them all if you must.

I only use headphones when editing on the road with my Macbook Pro. While in the studio I do not use headphones except for a one time listen when the mix is done.

For some audio work like dialogue editing and NR headphones are useful because they let you hear everything.

However, for mixing, I strongly suggest that you don't mix on headphones since a lot of sounds will be too subtle/quiet for people not on headphones. So your audience will miss sounds that they are supposed to hear! If you listen to music on both headphones and earbuds (while on the bus/train) you'll probably notice this.

So ideally you want a good pair of studio reference monitors. I'd not spend too much on headphones (e.g. get something entry level like AKG K-44) for that reason.

2- At an audiophile store where I live (Bay/Bloor Radio) you can listen to a number of different headphones and hear the difference for yourself. Perhaps you can find a store like that in your area... it should be a fun trip even if you don't buy anything.

3- What sound card are you using? The ones built into motherboards (especially laptops) will have a lot of noise in them that you'll be able to hear on headphones... e.g. when I transfer files on the hard drive or over the Internet, I can hear sounds on my headphones.

Take a listen to a pair of Senn HD 280 Pros. They are more natural than Sony 7506/7509s, but less dead than the AKGs. The Sonys tend to be scooped and pretty, which is fine when in the field, but not so good for checking your mix.

And I'll second the comments above:
* Headphones bring out details that people won't hear in many environments
* Headphones don't give the correct pan/phase/soundstage info
* Headphones can be fatiguing.

Advantages are:
* For $100 you can get headphones that are keepers. "Keeper" monitors often cost 10x that.
* You can mix into the night
* You can mix in a noisy environment
* You can use them when doing live recording.

If you get a chance, audition a few pairs before buying. (And then buy from the people who took the time to let you audition. If you quote them a web price, they'll probably honor it.)

One other tip (sorry if I'm repeating something that's already been said):

When auditioning headphones (or speakers, for that matter) take along a CD with some of your own material on it and ask if that could be used to try them out. If you're planning to put dialogue into your project then include some dialogue-only and some dialogue-over-music material on the CD.

I go along with the sentiment that phones are good up to a point - timing, spatial positioning of audio in the mix, rough mixing etc - but ideally you should then be listening on proper reference monitors for finalising your audio. 'Proper' = not hi-fi speakers = expensive.

FWIW I use Beyer Dynamic DT-100's. Ugly as sin but sound fine and are comfortable to use for extended periods. Also, the cable is user-replaceable, which is a nice feature.

Anyone know if there is a mini-jack cable for the DT100's? As standard they come with 1/4" jacks and adding an adaptor to convert it to 1/8" puts too much strain on the headphone socket on my XL2.

Hey Guys,

Thanks for all the information. My plan is to get a set of reasonable priced headphones to do my preliminary work. Then when the time is available, do final audio editing using speakers.

This information has made me approach editing in a much more focused and planned process. This forum has so much information, it is priceless!

Thanks again,

Chris

I go along with the sentiment that phones are good up to a point - timing, spatial positioning of audio in the mix, rough mixing etc - but ideally you should then be listening on proper reference monitors for finalising your audio. 'Proper' = not hi-fi speakers = expensive.


I have to disagree with this. It's often how things are done, and, yes, I use near-field monitors for *mixing*, but, unless you're having your stuff mastered by someone else, you should listen, at least once as a last pass, on whatever you expect your media to be played back on. The same goes for viewing.

It's certainly nice to be able to use high-end gear that really expresses the sound field and gives you nice level frequency response at some point, but it is absolutely critical that your media be targeted for the actual target (which can, of course, be the combination of multiple targets).

Most of us can't listen on a set of Genelecs and know exactly what things will sound like on an all-in-one home system (my wife can), which makes it worth having a crap system to preview on. I'm not saying Bose crappy, but somewhere around Polk crappy.

Look in high-end recording studios and you'll almost always find the "real world setup" speakers ready to be switched on and monitored through. You finalize as close to your target as you can.

Hi Matthew,

I absolutely agree that you should run your audio through as many outputs as possible to check that your mix works well on a wide variety of equipment. When necessary I run mine through any combination of Sony hi-fi speakers, a pc speaker setup, a mono speaker (!), domestic headphones, a domestic TV and a home cinema system.

In my case this isn't the last pass - it goes on throughout the mixing process (like I say, when necessary - if I know it's only destined for the web, for example, I won't bother listening through all outputs).

But if I had to choose, I would go for the flat response of a pair of reference monitors over any other speaker or headphone setup any time - and there is absolutely no way I would trust my mix to what I might hear from a set of manufacturer sweetened domestic speakers, other than to check it works.

Interesting points you are making. Matthew's comment brings to mind that I had heard that the 80's rock act "The Cars" mixed on car audio speakers, as other rock acts have done, especially rappers.

I have a killer set of speakers on my workstation and I am always disappointed to hear my work on a customers crappy TV. I have learned to adjust eq setting on occasion because many TVs cannot handle the bass of some soundtracks and will rattle.

Guys, here's a book worth reading that covers everything we've been talking about and a ton more - including choosing and using speakers/headphones and the pros and cons of different solutions. It's pitched as an introductory book but it goes into plenty of depth, including some very useful theory.

'Producing Great Sound for Digital Video' (second edition, 2003)
Author Jay Rose
Published by CMP Books in their DV Expert series
ISBN 0-87930-597-5
CD included

http://www.dplay.com/book/pgs/ (one of many websites that talk abut this book)

http://www.amazon.com/Producing-Great-Sound-Digital-Video/dp/1578202086/ref=pd_sim_b_img_2

There's a discussion thread here that presents some balanced views about the book and suggests some alternatives: http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=6777

And finally, here is a link to Jay's other book, Audio Post Production for Digital Video. I can't comment o nthis one as I haven't read it : http://www.dplay.com/book/app/index.html

Happy reading!

Ian . . .

p.s. I never knew that about The Cars! As for rappers doing it, that must be why I can't stand rap music ;-)

The secret is to listen to a lot of material you are familiar with, either CD or DVD's see how they sound in our monitoring rig and try to emulate that tonal balance (repeat this step a lot). This will get you accustomed to how YOUR monitors are supposed to sound (learn them with NO EQ, flat!!!) otherwise youre cloaking their true sound.

a very common mistake very often made is trying (usually unconsciously) to make low budget monitors (or any budget for that mater) sound like the Genelecs or something along those lines, at the big studio. this just simply never works. you have to learn the intricacies of your particular set-up, whether its monitors or headphones. and act accordingly.

As a retired mixing engineer, every time I went into a different studio, the first thing I would do is play a few song that I was very familiar with, in order to familiarize myself with the acoustical behavior of their monitors and more importantly their room, and as the day wore on I would go back constantly to my referance CDs to make sure I was still in the range I needed to be in.

One of the lessons I learned is that pretty much any reasonable monitor method is valid "IF" you learn their character whether its headphones or monitors. I have seen people save up to get the big expensive monitors that was the flavor of the month only to get crappy mixes, because they never took the time to learn them. or simply didnt know that they had to learn them, and assumed that just because they just paid 5k for a set of speakers that all of the sudden they will be able to get good mixes.

Just some fuel for thought.

Just out of curiosity, how many people remember Yamaha NS-10's???

:)

How about Auratone 5c?

The NS-10 were commonly found on the bridge of every sound studio mixer as representative of "what will it sound like with a small box? (speaker, that is)". Something like a good car stereo.

The Auratones were found in many tv/radio suites, as representative of "what will it sound like through a TV?"

These are still in the class of reference monitors. The primary difference between them and real car stereos, home stereos, home theater, etc. is that all the consumer gear is designed to make the program sound good. That is, consumer gear typically colors the sound in pleasing ways. Which is fine for general listening, but not so good for us who really want to know what the project sounds like without additional coloration by some consumer manufacturer who thinks that all listeners like bass they can feel and lots of highs...

My experience with the NS10s is what lead me to my theory. I purchased my NS10s back in 86' because thats what I saw in the pictures of studios, it took me a bit to realize that I shouldnt mix on them and expect them to sound like a typical home stereo (with the smile EQ curve), but i was starting out then. once some one explained (and showed) me how they are supposed to sound, then it was like the sky opened up and all of the sudden my mixes got much better. I cant count how many people I have seen using these for the same reason I had them, without knowing them, and coming up with bad results as well. Little did I know the speakers I had purchased for $229 back in the day I would end up selling for $750 almost 20 years later, with original drivers (never blew a driver). I am ashamed that I did sell them to some one who wanted them for the same reason I bought them back then as well... but I did explain how to get to know them, and he bought my old Crown D300 to go with them as well.

memories...

Sennheiser HD 600 is my headphone of choice... spendy, but flat.

Headphone fatigue, like any other sonic fatigue, is caused by excessive volumes. Learn to mix at low to moderate levels... which is quieter than you think. It's just more difficult to discipline your volumes with headphones.

Mix for 30 mins, rest for 15.

If you have a SPL meter, try about 85db... and stay with it for a week or two. Pretty soon you adjust.

It doesn't matter what you monitor with, or what you reference to... if you monitor too loud, your mix will reflect the inverse of your ear's sensitivity at higher sound levels... most obvious is bass response. Loud monitoring equals tinny mixes. Try it sometime.