There's been some discussion regarding "in camera" image adjustments.
Some feel the best way is to capture the most natural color correct image as possible and tweak it to your liking in post.

Here's a link I found from Sony that has some changes, mainly gama curve changes to effectively widen the unit’s expressive range.

http://www.sony.co.uk/biz/view/ShowContent.action?site=biz_en_GB&contentId=1193315622112


If you have any picture profile settings you find interesting, please post them in this thread.

At the Sony US site they have scene profiles for XDCAM cameras. There's nothing for EX1 yet but it would be nice if they had some.

http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusiness/markets/10014/xdcamSceneFiles.shtml

Maybe it would be nice, now that more and more people are getting their cameras, to have a thread to share Picture Profile Recipes for some interesting looks (bleach bypass, cross process, wide latitude, etc).

I had good luck getting this concept going in our Canon XH series camcorder forum, but not in our Sony V1 forum. Here's hoping it'll really catch on here. This should be the single most popular trading spot for picture profiles... if we can get a couple going, it should catch on pretty quickly.

if we can get a couple going, it should catch on pretty quickly.

OK, Chris, here's a start. I've set up a couple of PP's that have the following characteristics:

HISAT - The Matrix Select has been set to HISAT with the Level changed to 25; Gamma Select is set to CINE1. This set of setting provides much richer colors yet preserves some shadow detail.

HISATBLK - Same settings as preceding plus BLACK GAMMA has been set to +25 to open up the shadows.

The file below also shows the default settings for reference.

Let the games begin!

Carroll Lam

Carroll thanks for the settings I tried both and the factory setting (ugh) yours were better. Today I will try two new setting and let you know what I think. My goal is to have a setting close to the rich colors I had on my Canon A1 with Steve's Vivid and still have rich blacks. More soon.

We need to get this rolling the way the Canon A1 forum ran. It was fantastic.

Page 76 of the manual talks about storing and retrieving camera set-up (including picture profiles) on the SxS card. My camera is *supposed to be* in transit so I can't do any testing now but wouldn't it be great if there was a way to attach picture profiles to this message board that could easily be downloaded?

Someone figure out how to do that before my camera arrives. :)

but wouldn't it be great if there was a way to attach picture profiles to this message board that could easily be downloaded?

Someone figure out how to do that before my camera arrives. :)

It is easy to upload a setting file for download. The problem is that it contains all the camera settings not just the PPs.

The time that it takes to read and enter the PP settings from a list, such as the one I posted, is for all intents and purposes faster than downloading a file, loading onto a card with a pc, moving it the EX1 for upload, and then changing the nonb-PP settings to your own preferences.

Carroll Lam

Hi Carroll sorry I ran into a Final Cut Pro Scratch disk problem with EX1 footage today so no shooting.

I will try two new PP settings tomorrow and let you know the settings if they are worth looking at. I have time the next few weeks prior to months of busy shooting to test settings so lets see if we can move this along. Thanks for getting it started.

Thanks for getting it started.

Looking forward to more inputs. Let's hope others contribute also.

Carroll Lam

Carroll, et all

I took the liberty of adding two more to your XL spreadsheet (in red at top).

One is for film, the other TV.

Jim

I took the liberty of adding two more to your XL spreadsheet (in red at top).

One is for film, the other TV.

Thanks, Jim. Any rationale for how you came up with those settings?

Carroll Lam

All were from the XDCam. The file setting came from Allister Chapman (I think).

Jim

All were from the XDCam. The file setting came from Allister Chapman (I think).

Jim

Thanks, Jim, I'll give them a try.

Carroll Lam

I will also try today since I solved my FC problem and the weather is spring like.

Thanks Jim, I was wondering the same thing as Carrol.

I see the film setting is not using the cine gamma curves.
How does it hold up for latitude, compared to selecting the cine curves?

I've been searching/asking for this in vain: how do the 4 cine gamma curves (depicted in the pdf brochure) compare to the 4 std ones?

Anyone?

It's in the manual, page 74.

I mean graphical comparison, Steven - not a description ("a picture is worth more than 1000 words", and in this case - 100k :))

You can download the manual. It's online.
http://dvinfo.net/conf/showpost.php?p=768448&postcount=11

I downloaded the manual on the first day of its availability on the Internet, Steven - no gamma curve pictures there, as you know. Only description.

I set up the 4 PP on this forum plus one I am testing trying to match (Canon A1 Vivid) and took a quick check. Wow the TV Curve has saturated/vivid colors. Now off for a test shoot more later.

I saw the pictures on this forum somewhere.

Went out today and shot for a few hours on a hazy warm winter day. There were not a lot of colors. Running late so I can post grabs or clips tomorrow if anyone is interested.

I tested 5 PP settings at two locations a few times at each place. All shots were locked on tripod, full manual, keeping iris between 2.8-4.8, some had ND1, some ND2. Zoom was 100% on some, 50% on others, and full wide on the last third.

See attached for settings:

I found PP1-2 very pleasing crisp and clear with nice colors and realistic blacks.

PP3 looked nice but I will have to spend some time tomorrow to see how the Black Gamma +25 looked in the shadow details.

PP4 had loads of noise and was washed out with a purple/green tint. It was also 2 stops brighter.

PP5 also had noise but not as much as PP4. This is oversaturated with a blue/red tint and only one stop brighter then 1-3.

More tomorrow family calls.

Added today the Picture Profile frame grabs. All three are full wide and have not been touched in post.

Well for some reason PP4 will not upload so I will get another frame grab and try again. I keep timing out for a 2 MB .png that is 1920 x 1080. I will try a few more times. UPLOAD FAILED four times not sure why so I will come back later when I have more time. PP4 is worth a look since I was surprised at how this image looked.

Good work Paul, it'll be great to see these getting the attention the XH-A1 versions got.

In the samples you uploaded I liked 2 the best, and in fact is the same as the settings I've been using. 3 looks more HVX like to me (or at least heading in that direction) and 5 loses way too much detail for my liking, I'd prefer to leave that kind of contrast for post.

Nice one!

Never mind, I see the file names (I've been healed!)

So Paul

In the screen grabs above you have

PP1 PP2
PP3 PP5

with 4 still to come?

Jim

Thanks Paul I also like PP2 the best so far but will keep playing. Rain all day today so no shooting. Also I can not seem to get PP4 to upload but will try again in a little while.

The problem tho', with detail cranked up in the camera you get an artificial "edge" sharpening that tends to be hard to key. Start doing Hi Contrast 3 pass keying and you run into problems.

A low detail setting allows you to key easier and if not keying you can apply an unsharp effect to bring that little bit of detail back.

For what its worth.

Jim

Jim are you referring to the +5 level I used on my Detail Level setting? If so I agree it would cause problems keying but it is worth looking at while I am experimenting.

Agreed,
I tend to drop the detail to level to -15 and up the frequency to 20 or so.
This helps take the edge off, but still holds clarity.

Nice from you to provide some footage.

I've the excell-file in front and try to understand the differences. PP1 is nearly the same as PP2, except a higher detail, changed blackgamma and matrix setting on PP1.
I can recognise the detailing, but I'm not able to see a difference in the black gamma and matrix settings. The picture of PP2 looks like a cloud is comming and shadowing the front left trees - or is THAT the black gamma influence?

PP3 is a copy of PP2 except a black gamma setting. Why is the image so muddy and dark? It looks underexposed. The white building is now grey...

PP5 looks great I think! In my opinion that looks film-like, just a little unsharp and a with a hight contrast. Well exposed!
Tell me based on the settings, where does this look come from: Std1 against cine1 gamma curve or the matrix?
I'm not willing to believe that a std-gamma-curve produces a more filmic-look than a cine-gamma-curve...

btw, is there a good online-ressource for learning the matrix adjustment?

Steve do you have a setting you can share with us that has the -15 level and +20 frequency?

Gregor I am not as impressed with PP4 (still can't upload) and PP5 both have loads of noise in the picture.

Yes, I'm wondering if you don't have pp3 mixed up with pp4.
It doesn't make sense looking at the excel table that pp3 would have lower contrast than pp2. Is it possible that your pp3 image is really pp4 settings?
PP4 has the cinema matrix which has lower saturation.

I agree, that the detail off and pushed colors have a more organic look, closer to film. I bet there is a good in between that still holds a tad more clarity, but offers that overall look.

No PP3 is correct I checked with the PP3 from the site next to PP4 on the screen. If and when I can upload PP4 you will see a huge difference. PP4 is a purple/green tint and noise.

OK, I see it now, PP3 has the black gamma raisied which offers the lower contrast. Thanks.

Oh! Sorry, I' ve meant the overall look of PP5 which is great. Yes there is noise, but I've seen it after your notice, not before...

Steven your're right a bit more detail and lower noise, would be better.

I wish my EX1 would be arriving...

Will have some nice late day light today for more testing. Still would be nice to get some input to get a setting as nice as Steve Dempsey’s Vivid with the Canon A1. All of my clients love that setting not that they understand it they just say my colors are incredible. And yes you can do it in post but not on some of my jobs where I shoot then play on a big screen TV 2 hrs later. That is just enough time to cut a days shoot to a looping 20 min. So great color from the camera is a must for me.

Dive in!

Would you consider PP5 to show the most noise?
I can't really tell from the stills.

I imagine you could drop each by a certain percentage and still have the same balance, but would decrease the overall saturated look. This would probably also decrease noise levels.

I would say PP4 has more noise then PP5 and both are at a level that is unacceptable for me.

Today I shot all again once then concentrated on PP2 with some over and under crank.

What Picture Profile do you use?

Essentially I have been using something like PP2 with Cine3, but detail level reduced to -20 & frequency at 20. I also adjusted blacks, but I can't remember what it was, I'll have to look.

Paul - I was not refering to anything specifically just making a comment.

Steve it is nice to know that by cranking up the frequency you can retain the sharpness and still lose the edge. Gotta try that.

The TV PP was used to master to Beta SP. Seems that going to analog causes a visual loss.

Jim

The TV PP was used to master to Beta SP. Seems that going to analog causes a visual loss.
I don't think so. Betacam SP does not look so contrasty. Maybe the sharpness is good for a downconvert, but why a profile for an old format...

Because that is what the station requires. When going to Beta you lose some of your contrast and saturation.

You are talking about PP5?
It doesn't make sense to me to raise the contrast above normal for a beta playout...

Jim no worry I was just checking that it was the +5 you were discussing. I have never gone to Beta so don't know about PP5 and saturation for that use.

Thanks Steve I will play with some of those numbers today.

Yesterday I went through all one more time and still like PP2 for my work but it needs improvement. Also played with PP2 in 720 30/60 and timelaps 1/1-16.

YeeHa 2 new U60 batteries arrived today after ordering from AbelCineTech yesterday.

To help understand the PP settings try this. Hook the camera up to a big monitor and another camera with the settings you like on a monitor next to the EX1. I did this with the Canon A1 and the Sony Ex1. Keeping the Canon on the settings I like. Then going through all the PP setting on the EX and looking to see what each adjustment does to try and get close. You do not have to record and the changes are instant. Make sure your monitors are accurate and only use this as a guide but it is a nice exercise. I did this with both on tripods and through a open window since 95% of my shooting is outside. Then pick 5 setting and go out and shoot and look at the results in your NLE.

Four more new PP's today and I am getting close to the one I like for my upcoming jobs. I am sure it will always be tweaked but getting close.

The one I like the best so far is PP1. But I think tomorrow I will try the Low Key Sat at +10 and +20 to help dial it in.

I do like Detail off and Skin Tone off. As for Knee you can't control Knee unless you are using the Standard Gamma.

I noticed that Sony has some downloadable scene files for the XDCAM's on their website.

http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusiness/markets/10014/xdcamSceneFiles.shtml

Is there any way to convert these scene files for use on the EX1?

Keep up the good work Paul. I tried out some of your settings today with mixed results. I'm undecided if I like the image with detail off or not. Part of me feels happy that there's less processing happening, but I also miss the images looking quite as stunning.

Your PP1 seemed over saturated to me, I know the look your trying to achieve as I used the vividRGB settings in my A1 a few times too, although I always found that to be a little too reddish for my liking. Good luck with it though, I'm definitely going to keep trying out your findings.

Paul.