Red is a long way from RAW too...
In the context of this chart (http://www.fletch.com/09digitalcamcomparison.html) what does "raw" mean then? I see the Red One is "4k" and not raw.

In the context of this chart (http://www.fletch.com/09digitalcamcomparison.html) what does "raw" mean then? I see the Red One is "4k" and not raw.

The Red marketing team appropriated the term RAW to help sell the camera. They simply called what comes out of the camera Red RAW in the hope of people associating it with the DSLR RAW format. It actually is a proprietary format using wavelet compression, 12:1-9:1. It doesn't get close to 4K either, after de-bayering, depending on lens and setting, 3.2-2.8K roughly.

The Red marketing team appropriated the term RAW to help sell the camera. They simply called what comes out of the camera Red RAW in the hope of people associating it with the DSLR RAW format. It actually is a proprietary format using wavelet compression, 12:1-9:1. It doesn't get close to 4K either, after de-bayering, depending on lens and setting, 3.2-2.8K roughly.

Thanks for the clarification!

I'm under the impression that the 4:2:2 output means it's compressed. If not, wouldn't it be 4:4:4?
That's call down-sampling.
rafael

My once a year 2 cam stage-play capture is happening later this week and I'm looking for an appropriate picture profile. Here are some details.

Good tungsten light overall, though center stage is hot. Very colorful costuming/set and plenty of white as well. High contrast stage elements with a black curtain backdrop (both cameras have a 486 IR filter).

The final will be delivered on DVD (and we're considering renting a local cinema for an HD showing). I expect to take advantage of the HD resolution for shot re-framing on the DVD and will try to minimize post color correction.

The profile that looks most pleasing to me so far is STD 4 gamma and detail turned down to -20, frequency +40. Exposure looks perfect when barely touching 100% zebras (although cine gammas tended to blow out at this setting).

Anyone have any tweaks or other suggestions? Is STD 4 my best bet for these conditions?

I do a lot of contemporary dance videos. horrible contrast range for video, hot spotlights, dark curtains and a lot of action in the dark parts of the stage.
I use 2-3 cameras all set to the following setting which I call CINEflat:

0 dB
if possible -3 if absolutely necessary +6 (but never ever more than that)

Matrix on
select Cinema
Level / Phase / R-G all 0

CC off

Offset White off
preset white 3200 (although on stages with modern lights or rock concerts I shoot with 5600)

Gamma Level 0
Select: Cine4

Black Gamma + 25 !!

It is quite a simple profile, but I am happy with the results.

you can see a not color corrected clip at trio 7d9 "interrupting measure" on Vimeo
(the noise is from the video projection on the background, not from me...)

or a color corrected video: 101 Zieglerstrasse on Vimeo

with the above settings, I have a lot of freedom to tweak in post, because I have a lot of detail in the blacks and a fairly flat picture, that is why on my PPs the setting is called CINEflat...

hope it helps, let me know .

Hi Oliver,

Your input is very useful! The blacks have been what I've stressed about most and your +25 black gamma looks great, although the potential for introducing noise in the blacks is a concern. I've got one more opportunity for some test shots before the performance and CINEflat is now dialed in for a spin.

Nice job on the videos. LOL at the end of the first one, and the second is also well done with nice CC.

Never considered that modern stage lights could be 5600k. That could be useful information one day. (A couple of HMIs would be nice to have in my kit, too!)

Thanks for taking the time to share your settings.

I second that, very nice video. What format did you shoot in (1080i or p or 720)

Hi Oliver,

I really like the details your getting in your videos. I do stage shows too an have just moved over to the EX3 from a Canon XL H1a. For exposure, do you use the zebras and if so what do you have it set at (70% & 100%)? If you don't use zebras how are you setting exposure?

Thanks,
Garrett

Bill:
noise in the blacks is why I always try to use -3 db if possible, often I have to go to 0db and sometimes I am forced to use +6 but I really try to avoid it. I never change during the show so that the noise stays uniform throughout the film. I found that using +25 in the black gamma gives me the steps in the blacks that I need. (Dark scenes with dancers wearing black in front of a black curtain...) If I wish to crush the black later I still can in post, but if I record it crushed it I can't get the definition back without running into serious noise issues.

Vincent:
I shoot everything in 1080, i or p depending on the look I want. Rarely 720 but only when I need slomo.

Garret:
I never use Zebras. They really annoy me, and with stage shows, where sometimes the only bright parts are a very small part of the picture, they don't really help because the "grid" is too wide to see the zebra properly.
What is essential with the EX3 is that I set up my viewfinder correctly. And then I tape the controls shut! When I first started using the EX3 I had problems when I accidentally touched the controls when taking the camera out of the bag and in a stage setting, when the theater is dark, it is easy to miss when they are off.
If possible I use an external monitor Sony LMD 9050 which I calibrate at my studio before. If I can do this depends on when I have to shoot. Monitors are very annoying for the audience if the piece has a lot of dark scenes, because the monitors emit a lot of light. And on that note: I tape off anything that glows (the V-Mount battery pack) or shines, and whenever I move away from the viewfinder, I turn it down to not disturb the audience, who pays to see dance, not to see me work...

As a general suggestion for shooting stage stuff:
Whenever possible, I try to do a "video runthrough" where I spend about an hour with the lighting guy and some stand ins to reprogram the light changes and situations to match the impression on the video to the intended experience for the audience. In other words: so that the video looks like the real show. Which means that very dark scenes might have a lot more light and the very bright spotlights might be a lot darker, but on the video the ratio between bright and dark resembles the impression the audience has during the show. As you all know, the f-stop range of video is nowhere close to the human eye... This is easy to do and allows me to use the same f-stop on all the cameras througout the show.
The only drawback for a video runthrough is that the energy and "spark" of the dancers is different without an audience. If possible I try to do this for a "pre-premiere" or general rehearsal when they invite schools or friends. But still the energy is not the same. So if possible: get some important people in to watch, for example fellow dancers or choreographers.
Another huge advantage of a video run is that I am free to choose where I want to position the cameras.

some more of my videos: ABAKU's videos on Vimeo (http://www.vimeo.com/abaku/videos)
not all of them are shot with the EX3, some with the 450 DVCAM

Using -3db will reduce your dynamic range by @ 5% up top, so you loose more highlight detail in the roll off at the top of the gamma curve. This could be fine if everything is dark, but in high contrast with people in and out of stage lighting your sacrificing a lot of skin detail.
It's hard to judge from vimeo, but the skin tones look pretty flat to my eye.

Luis Reggiardo - I'm curious to know if you or anyone out there shooting with a 35mm lens adapter has bumped the detail settings up.

I've been using the Bill Ravens settings and they deliver exactly as described - maxing the range in sunny and cloudy conditions, great.

But they decrease contrast, right, and between this and the inevitable softening of image because of the adapter's extra glass, I was wondering if increasing detail would counterbalance this in some small degree. I haven't experimented with this but am curious to know if anyone else has?

Thanks

I don't increase detail in-camera however I have added between 15 points and 25 points of sharpen in post depending on how complex the image is.

More in-camera detail may result in a "softer" image if groundglass grain "noise" plus any gain noise in the image, causes the codec to shed detail to maintain frame rate, so you may not end up any furthur ahead.

I've been using 35mm adapters for years with the Ex-1 and and the HVX200.
I generally run the detail a bit higher when using the adapter.
On an EX that might mean only as high 0 rather than well into the minus numbers.
Its individual choice though and depends on whether you do your own post. Good monitoring helps to make your decision but detail is always tricky to judge.

I can't comment on the pros or cons of adding detail in post rather than in the camera.

Woah, there's a hell of a lot of info on this thread, so much so that I can't really find the answer I want so I'll throw it straight out to the floor:
I need a simple, neutral, colour accurate profile for shooting the video look (corporate, etc) which retains the highlights and is clean enough in the shadows and doesn't really need any post correction. (Don't want much really do I?!)
I've played around with lots of settings and generally got into a total muddle.
I don't think I need the Cine settings, and I seem to remember someone stating that STD 2 is 'broadcast safe'.
Simple question, no doubt many answers, all thoughts gratefully received.
Regards,
Oliver.

Get Vortex Media EX1 DVD it gives ideal settings for most situations.

Agree with Bruce buy the Vortex Media EX1 DVD. The DVD is worth the money with great insight into not only the Picture Profile but everything you need to know for putting the camera to work.

would vortex media also be suitable for someone who is doing a lot of narrative stuff short films, features etc. nothing that needs to broadcast spec?


and or any pp that have worked in the past for a film look?

Hi, William . . .

Yes, the Vortex DVD for your camera - regardless of whether you are doing news, sports, short films, documentaries, conferences, etc. - is one of the best investments you'll likely make for your EX cam. Vortex doesn't give advice on anything other than how to get the most out of your camera. You can use the advice to help strengthen your narrative work - or any genre style you shoot with your camera. The Vortex EX1 video runs for about 3 hrs. in length - it's comprehensive and very easy to follow. For me, it continues to offer the best advice, tips-and-tricks, and all good things to get the most from my Sony XDCAM EX.

Hope this helps.

Ian

I have been noticing more and more a slight Yellow/Green color cast to the standard Sony cameras. I have come up with some changes to the matrix settings that will remove it.
This is a subtle change but really helps with skin tones, stopping on screen talent from looking ill! These settings work in the PMW-350, EX1/3 and PDW-700.

On an EX1/EX3 this works best with the Standard Matrix, On a PMW-350 or PDW-700 you can use it on it's own or mix it with one of the preset matrices as a modifier. User Matrix On, R-G 0, R-B +5, G-R -6, G-B +8, B-R -15, B-G -9

I presume you calibrate and profile your monitor on a regular basis? Colours can drift in a very short time, more so with CRT than LCD screens. I use a Spyder Pro at least once a week justy to keep things as accurate as possible.

Yes I do. This new profile has come about after seeing my footage in various screening situations. Do remember vincent that computer monitors have different gammas to video monitors.

Vincent, I hope you're using a Spyder2 calibrator. The original had a lot of "issues".

No, Dave I am using the Spyder 3. I also use a Gretag i-one amongst others which are knocking about the studio. I re-callibrate every other day.

Here is a link to my short review of the Spyder 3

Spyder 3 review (http://www.photo-i.co.uk/Reviews/Misc/Spyder3/Spyder%203.html)

Every other day??? What kind of monitor are you using?

I am now using a pair of 24" Samsung monitors, these are very stable and probably don't need profiling every other day. I actually profile once a week when I am not printing. When printing I profile before every job, this is mainly limited edition Fine Art printing rather than video editing.

Here are print outs of my HVX200/HPX170 settings. All the other settings are set to default. I noted that the detail adjustment is subjective because I just eyeballed the difference. The EX1 is notably sharper even at the lowest level. My Black Gamma levels are set very low in order to mimic the fall off of the HVXs Gamma curve. Do note that the Black setting has very minimal adjustment.

HVX Matches for EX1

PP1: Cine V
Matrix –
- Select: High Sat
- Level 0
- Phase +2
- R-G -11
- R-B -23
- G-R +38
- G-B 0
- B-R +17
- B-G -23
Detail –
- Level –30 (subjective)
- Frequency 15

Gamma –
- Level -1
- Select: Cine 1

Black – -2
Black Gamma - -99

PP2: Cine D
Matrix –
- Select: High Sat
- Level 0
- Phase +6
- R-G +22
- R-B -36
- G-R +19
- G-B 0
- B-R +14
- B-G -16
Detail –
- Level –30 (subjective)
- Frequency 15

Gamma –
- Level -1
- Select: Cine 1

Black – -2
Black Gamma - -96

PP3: HD NORM
Matrix –
- Select: Standard
- Level -5
- Phase +1
- R-G +8
- R-B -30
- G-R +15
- G-B -24
- B-R 0
- B-G +10
Detail –
- Level –30 (subjective)
- Frequency 15

Gamma –
- Level +11
- Select: STD4

Black – -1
Black Gamma - -52

PP4: FLUO
Matrix –
- Select: FL Light
- Level -8
- Phase -5
- R-G -64
- R-B -24
- G-R +64
- G-B -18
- B-R +24
- B-G -23
Detail –
- Level –30 (subjective)
- Frequency 15

Gamma –
- Level +11
- Select: STD4

Black – -1
Black Gamma - -52


I tried Andy's HD Norm profile with my HMC-150 and the scopes matched perfectly. I was surprised. The 2 cameras work well together. Great job Andy.

Get Vortex Media EX1 DVD it gives ideal settings for most situations.

Or instead try the Pana HVX settings also posted in this thread - they look way better than the Vortex settings. Perhaps the Vortex settings are good if you want to fiddle with colors in the post, while my experience with the HVX PP-s is that most of the time no need to adjust color, the images look fantastic without touching them.

Edit: I just noticed that the HVX settings are quoted above my post. So you can easily find what I was talking about.

I am new on this network and mainly was interested in joining b/cause of the picture profile (PP) threads...

There is a lot of info/pages already - and I am a little overwhelmed by all of it - so, I am wondering what PP came out of Paul Cronin's thread already in 2008 (January 7th):


My goal is to have a setting close to the rich colors I had on my Canon A1 with Steve's Vivid and still have rich blacks. More soon.


Right now, I am using a filter called "movie color" in post production to achieve a quite similar goal.

I am living and working in Mali, West-Africa though, where the sun is bright and surroundings are desert-y (a lot of brauns)...

Thanks for any input!

BTW, I am shooting with the Sony PMW-EX1

I decided to load up a few of the Panny/HVX picture profile settings. I did a shoot with one a couple of nights ago with the Cine V picture profile. I could hardly contain myself. Seemed so weird having the lush saturated Panny look in the Sony viewfinder.

Is there anyone here that is well versed in these Panasonic profiles and could sum up their intended use or look?

Anybody anything on my question from March, 24th? A direction to an answer would be more than OK too...

I am looking for a movie color picture profile (as described in thread March, 24th)
or more like a "film look" ....but than for a Sony PMW-EX1...

Thanks for any help in this!

Hi,
i am using the ex1r and i am a wedding videographer.
Mostly i am using the dvcam 50.
I am wondering if a PP will be the same for HD and DvCam.
Thanks

Here is a site with a number of Picture Profile suggestions. I apologize if this has been posted before but I didn't see it, if it was.

SONY XDCAM EX (http://www.sony.ca/xdcamex/tips.htm)

Anybody anything on my question from March, 24th? A direction to an answer would be more than OK too...

I am looking for a movie color picture profile (as described in thread March, 24th)
or more like a "film look" ....but than for a Sony PMW-EX1...

Thanks for any help in this!

Try number 2.

SONY XDCAM EX (http://www.sony.ca/xdcamex/tips.htm)

try this

DOUG'S PRESET

MATRIX:

SETTING: ON
SELECT: HIGH SAT
LEVEL: 0
PHASE: 0
R-G: 0
R-B: 0
G-R: 0
G-B: 0
B-R: 0
B-G: 0

COLOR CORRECTION:

SETTING: OFF
AREA DETECTION
AREA INDICATION: OFF
TARGET PHASE: 130
TARGET WIDTH: 40
LEVEL: 0

WHITE:

OFFSET WHITE: OFF
OFFSET: 0
OFFSET: 0
OFFSET: 0
PRESET WHITE: 5600

DETAIL:

SETTING: ON
LEVEL: 0
FREQUENCY: 0
CRISPENING: 0
H/V RATIO: 0
WHITE LIMITER: 0
BLACK LIMITER: 0
V DTL CREATION: Y
KNEE APT LEVEL: 0

SKIN TONE DETAIL:

SETTING: OFF
LEVE: 0
AREA DETECTION
AREA INDICATION: OFF
SATURATION: 0
PHASE: 130
WIDTH: 40

KNEE:

NOTHING

GAMMA:

LEVEL: 0
SELECT: CINE4

BLACK: -3
BLACK GAMMA: -2
LOW KEY SAT: 0


or that

Bills new tc2

Matrix ...............on
Select................hisat
Level..................0
Phase.................-5
R-G...................75
R-B...................0
G-R...................-18
G-B...................-32
B-R...................-27
B-G...................13

Gamma Level.............. 0 (changed from -40)
Gamma Select.............CINE1 (any of the gamma curves will preserve the proper color calibration, but I prefer cine 1 for the most latitude/filmy look)
Black..........................-3 (the min setting for BLACK I now recommend is -3 or -4.)
Black Gamma..............0

Thanks Jim, I will try this option today...did not see this before today...

@ Docea, is this an answer to my question too? not sure :)

p.s.
Where can I change the option of receiving an e-mail when some body replying to my thread?
I searched but could not find it so far ...

I can't find the option either. I don't think there is one....I wish there was one.

@ Jim

OK, so it is not me...thanks for the use full website ... it does look a bit more complicated than the presets Docea gave, for a PP starter like me, but I'll do my best :)

Where can I change the option of receiving an e-mail when some body replying to my thread?

Near the top, on the right, "Thread Tools", "Subscribe to this Thread".

and under Quick Links at the top you can manage your subscribed threads. If you want to change from email notification to something else, open forum and re-subscribe using a different option...

Thanks guys, helpful...

Hi there has anyone got any suggestions on a PP for lightning storms?

Hi Greg,

If anyone would it would probably be Alister Chapman. He pretty much captures storms for a living and produces some incredible images. Do a search of the forum first and see if there have been any previous posts.

Garrett

Although I normally shoot fireworks and some easy daylight filmings on the firing areas only I promised to help some friends next weekend at a belly dance on stage with colored lights at evening. So I will shoot their show from behind the audience and I stuck with the settings for my EX1R. I do not find an appropriate indoor setting when I search the forums or in the collection (http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdcam-ex-cinealta/472237-pp-recipes-sticky-thread-2.html#post1483701).

What I've found was this one from Oliver Neubert:
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdcam-ex-cinealta/110902-picture-profile-recipes-34.html#post1455035

Gain 0 dB
if possible -3 if absolutely necessary +6 (but never ever more than that)

Matrix on
select Cinema
Level / Phase / R-G all 0

CC off

Offset White off
preset white 3200 (although on stages with modern lights or rock concerts I shoot with 5600)

Gamma Level 0
Select: Cine4

Black Gamma + 25 !!


And I do like very much a profile from Alister Chapman for bright daylight, which I use outdoors:

Matrix: On
Select: Cinema
Level: +35
CC: off
Detail: on
Level: -8
Frequency: +30
Crispening: +20
Gamma: +-0
Select: CINE1
Black: -4

So, when I try to combine somehow, it would result in this:

Gain: -3db (I like the smoother image with less noise then with 0db)

Matrix: On
Select: Cinema
Level: 0

CC: off

Detail: on
Level: -8
Frequency: +30
Crispening: +20

Gamma: +-0
Select: CINE4

Black Gamma + 25
Black: -1 (I use this at fireworks and it has less noise than Black: 0 without darkening the image to much)

I will film in 1080/50i with Shutter 180°, ATW (I know, its so bad, but how should I do a manual WB when I film from 30m distance?). I film in 1080i because this is accepted for Blu-ray and I am afraid of fast movments of some dancing groups, so I avoid 1080/24p. I have to downconvert to PAL-DVD too, but this I do often.

So, please, can someone help me if my settings are somehow adequate or am I on the total wrong way?!

Thanks a lot for any hint, I want to give them clear images with all the deep colors and glittering of their costumes and colored lights.

Markus

For lightning I use standard gamma 3 with the knee set to manual at 90. I preset the white balance to 4300k for night shooting, 5600k for daylight. The more important thing is to use the slowest shutter speed you can get away with to avoid partial exposures. In daylight I shoot 25P (24P or 30P may be more appropriate for NTSC regions) with no shutter. At night I use a 2 frame slow shutter with gain at -3db.

Thanks everyone!
This info will be used hopefully on a trip to Alberta this summer! Praying for some bad weather....crazy huh ?

Alberta in June is a good area for Supercells and even the odd tornado, Only problem is the lack of roads that makes getting close hard.

I lived in Edmonton during the time the big tornado went through... very ugly. The hail was as big as my fist and I don't have small hands. Those were in turn spotted like a mace with smaller ice chunks. They hit the hot pavement and either stuck or leave large dents.
There are oil service roads criss crossing a majority of Alberta. One every mile or so. I would have thought that would be sufficient to get in pretty darn close :) They are usually gravel but more than passable even with a car at most times of the year.

In german

Wolfgangs VideoBlog - EX1R Picture Profile (http://www.fxsupport.de/pp.html)

In german

Wolfgangs VideoBlog - EX1R Picture Profile (http://www.fxsupport.de/pp.html)
Hello everyone!,
I would like to apologize to the person I took and used excel table from in this thread. I am so lazy and that excel table so well prepared I couldn't resist. I am sorry and I Thank you!
Wolfgang, Thank you for taking the time to post your findings too.
Wolfgang, I also took the liberty to transfer and post your settings for EX1R to the excel table first column in light blue. The second column in white is your settings modified (in orange) to fit my taste for EX3 and the fourth column in yellow is my settings for a film look on EX3. Please feel free to load them in your system and look at them in your vectorscope and if you do, please let me know what your conclusion is please.

Please, anyone, take a look at this settings and please comment. Feel free to try them.
Of course my film look settings for the White Preset will vary depend on the situation (indoor/outdoor/outdoor very bright/florescent/tungsten).
Thank you
Luben

Also, please try under Wolfgang's/modified Matrix, Phase 9 - change to -5... I like it much better, but forgot to do the column...