Hello :)

I followed a little whats writen about EX1. But all sampleclips and still frames don't look VERY MUCH better that what I know from my Z1.

I guess it's better, but maybe one doesn't see the difference in daily work. Or am I wrong ?

We did a short movie with a Sony HDW750. And THATs a difference. Even when converted to HDV. Of course much more expensive but one can really SEE a huge difference. Thats what I am missing from EX1.

What do you think ?

Thanks!

Peter

Peter, guessing of what I have seen posted by now I find the overall EX1 image quality significantly better compared to my late FX1. Therefore I'd be very interested in a frame grab or a short clip of your Sony HDW750 movie. Can you share?

Not having my camera yet my judgement is based purely on tests i've seen and the EX1 really beats down all the HDV cameras i've seen it tested against. Dynamic range is better and small details are clearer.

simply put...streets ahead

The EX1 1920x1080P image is excellent. I have yet to see any sub 10K camera display this quality. Also, please remember the XDCAM 35mb codec is one of the reasons to move from the HDV standard.

But having said that, if you feel the Z1 is good enough, than why bother with anything else. Stay with the Z1 until you feel the difference meets your needs.

Miles better than the Z1, I've done quite a few side by side demos as its a great way to upsell from the HDV range to EX.

Obviously a £40k HDCam is going to be a million times better than anything costing 35,000 less...

Thanks so far.

But still, what I have seen so far looks so typical HDV-ish that I really don't see why I should change.

But it's definetly the better camera. No doubt.
I just think it make no differnce in daily work.

Thanks!

Peter

Ok, Peter enjoy your Z1 ! ;)

Peter, this may be of interest, just found it:
Sorry for the quote. I could not find a way for a quick link short of the whole thread.
>>>
"XDCAM EX "
Posted by RayRoman on Dec-02-07 at 11:00 PM


Well, I received my XDCAM EX cam from Sony on Friday. All I can say is WOW!!!! We have been shooting with the Z-1's for about a year and a half.
I did a side by side comparison in low-light with the Z1 and the EX. Unbelievable!!! I set-up the EX and Z1 with 0 gain in a very low lit room. The picture on the Z1 was pitch black, while the picture on the EX remained low-lit and clearly visible. I then lit the area with a 35 watt Litepanels LED dimmable light. The picture on the EX was superb with very nice skin tones and colors, while the Z1 remained dark and lacked color. When I adjusted the gain on the Z1 to 12db, the picture was as equally lit as the EX with 0 gain, but the colors were visibly better on the EX.
The EX shoots in several different formats ranging from 1080/30p to 720/24p, including 1080/60i. The over/under cranking feature on this camera is amazing. If you can deal with the costs involved and adjust your work flow a little, this camera is a beast. It's everything any wedding videographer could want in a camera and more.
Ray
<<<
http://www.digitaljuice.com/community_forums/tm.asp?m=88465&mpage=1&key=𕦴

I don`t know if it is of interest, but take a look at this website http://www.dvuser.co.uk/content.php?CID=171

I have e-mailed Nigel a few times. He knows a lot. Loads of interesting stuff here.

Svein Rune

"It's everything any wedding videographer could want in a camera and more. "

Thanks :)

I am sure the EX1 is great. I'll give it a try.

Peter

I have the EX1 and I am overjoyed. The definition of the screen display is crystal clear. It feels very sturdy and the 2 8GB cards that came with the camera store 50mins at full res. Awesome.

Thanks. That all sounds good.

Another problem to me:
How do You store that 16GB for future use ?

I guess its devided in several small clips, what would make it easier. On the other hand more complicated, when the editing application isn't available or cant read the old files after several years. But I guess thats how it will work from now on.

BEsides the higher compression with HDV, does anyone know if the new Z7 will also have that improved resolution ? But thats maybe another forum.

Peter

I store it on hard drives.
Hard drives are geting cheaper by the day.
I will also back up onto Sony professinal discs

The Sony Clip Browser will play back the clips. No need for an edit system. Burn to optical disc and include clip browser and your client wont need to worry about a deck (which is an especially bad problem with HDV and all the incompatible formats between Sony, JVC, Canon). Also change the.mp4 to .ts and a Blu-ray player or PS3 can play the files. Blu-ray players, at $300-$400 and dropping, are fare cheaper than decks.

The long term problem of compatibility would occur only if the Sony Clip Browser or future software players disappeared or if Blu-ray players disappeared.

I can easily and cheaply find CD players that can play data recorded to CD from 10 to 15 years ago. I can't say the same for my D2 tapes though. How easy will it to be to find an HDV deck to play back an HDV tape recorded on Canon at 24fps or JVC 720p in 15 years? I think using optical disc will maintain compatibility with future playback mechanisms a lot longer than any tape format.


Thanks. That all sounds good.

Another problem to me:
How do You store that 16GB for future use ?

I guess its devided in several small clips, what would make it easier. On the other hand more complicated, when the editing application isn't available or cant read the old files after several years. But I guess thats how it will work from now on.

BEsides the higher compression with HDV, does anyone know if the new Z7 will also have that improved resolution ? But thats maybe another forum.

Peter

The EX1 produces much cleaner images with more detail than the Z1. The EX1 pictures look more natural with less edge correction and detail enhancement. At the same time it needs between 1.5 and 2 stops less light to produce a comparable image. It also offers an amazing range of frame rates and features including true timelapse and the ability to over-crank.

The 720P material form the EX1 is simply stunning and compression artifacts are just about non-existent meaning you can really push the footage hard in post when grading. 1080 footage is also very clean, much cleaner and more robust than HDV. The lens is far better than any lens I have come across on any camera at this price level, certainly better than the lens on my Canon XL-H1 and Sony Z1. I don't care whether its good optics or good electronic correction but the almost total lack of CA rivals and in some cases out performs my expensive KH20 lens on my F350. Add to that the novel manual focus ring and manual iris ring and you have great user friendly optics which is more than I can say about the Z1's horrid servo system.

So is it better than a Z1, IMHO, hell yes!

Hi all, I received my EX1 a few days back. I'm so busy at work this week I've had only about 30 minutes with the camera.

I own a z1 and an ex1. With regards to sensitivey - from the very limited subjective tests I've done I can tell you that it is 'certainly' more sensitive. I would say that it is about 6 to 8 DB (perceptually at least). The noise the ex1 exhibits is different and would best be kept below 6 DB as many have suggested. Although i think it depends on what you are shooting - that noise won't appear as evident if your image is lit to some degree.

If you use my numbers above - if you stay below 9 DB on the z1u normally - you will probably be between 0 and 3 DB on the ex1 for the most part. The ex1 is more flexible and the profiles allow good 'visibility' at low light. It's like your eyes don't amplify reality - they are just very clear in low light. The z1 image which normally looks pretty good to me today looked soft and somewhat fuzzy in low light at 6db while the ex1 was picking up the same brightness with better clarity at 0 db. A 3-6 db gain on the ex1 would probably be close to a 9-12 on the z1u - and this is where both cameras start exhibiting offensive noise.

It's important to note as someone pointed out that the picture is much clearer with more definition than the z1u. It is noticable too - you don't have to look for it.

I'd put this camera between the DSR3xx series and Z1u in terms of sensitivity - more towards the 3xx.
Clarity/Resolution wise - beats both out without a doubt

With the z1 you need to crank up sharpness to like 12 or 13 just to keep the image from becoming mushy. The ex1 at 0 looks perfectly good to me. The z1 image has more of the video feel, in in 1080i this has a more filmic feel. Plenty of options to get the 'look' you want in any case.

The autofocus in dim situations looks a little slower than the z1 to me. I plan to use more manual focus though

Love solid state recording. Can't wait for cheap SxS cards.

For the price - it's worth every penny and much more. I'll write a better review once I do some real life tests.

Bottom line - if anyone is thinking of buying it - don't worry you won't be disappointed - it's a excellent camera for any use - especially weddings.

Is this the new low light king ? Could be :)

Paul

Is this the new low light king ? Could be :)Paul

Yes, it is. The EX1 is slightly better than the PD170 in all low light tests.

- Don

[I own a z1 and an ex1.]

Paul, will you be selling your Z1 or keep it as a spare camera? I own a FX1 and was thinking of getting EX1 too. The only concern I have is the partial flash exposure reported by some users. I do mostly wedding and there will always be situation when multiple flashes firing at the newly wed during important moments. I also heard some users did not have that partial exposure problem when they switch the shutter off.

Hi John ! I'm in the same boat - doing mostly weddings. I have not tested the flash issue - but will give it a shot for sure. I've left the shutter off for my tests.

I actually had two z1's and sold one of them as a trade in for the ex1.
I have another z1 - still new that i'm keeping for now. Once i'm set on the workflow with the ex1 - I'll pick up another as a backup - or possibly the new z7 if it proves to be a good perfomer.

I've shot a good 50-60 wedding over 1.5 years with the z1 and have been doing weddings for 15 years and while it provides decent results - i can see right away that the ex1 wll be a clear winner. The 30P images look really nice too !


Note however i only tested this in a room with about two 35 watt halogen lights running from a track light. If you put a 100 watt light on this thing things would sparkle. Low light is always a concern for me. It's not that i want to make it bright necessarily - i want it to maintain the mood but be clear as possible (hi-res) - the ex1 is doing at least a 50% better job at that than the z1

Wedding wise it will be great.

You'll also want to note that the ex1 is a bit heavier. The LCD is very clear ! Yes it's better than the z1 and even that was really good. I love the menu layout and fonts too. The z1's are kinda big and clumsy looking - these are very stylish. I can't say the placement of each menu is perfect - it's kinda odd - but it's not like i change anything in the menus that often

Battery wise - I ran the provided battery post a full charge . It showed about 140 minutes - and basically ran that amount. That could run you through two 16 GB cards at SP quality. The larger battery is best thought. I think that would give you 4 hours or so Some people said that the battery drains if you leave it on your camera for a few days - testing that now.

Thanks!
Paul

Paul, I really like my FX1 but this year I am planning to offer full HD to some of my clients who asked for it. Furthermore, tape transfer to my notebook for the making of the montage to be shown during the evening is really eating to the limited time I have for editing. This reason alone justify me to go for card based recording

Some people said that the battery drains if you leave it on your camera for a few days - testing that now.

Keep in mind that the only indication that the EX is turned on is the little green light above the card slot. I think that some EX users are forgetting to turn the camera off and are coming back to find the battery drained.

- Don

Keep in mind that the only indication that the EX is turned on is the little green light above the card slot. I think that some EX users are forgetting to turn the camera off and are coming back to find the battery drained.

- Don
Don, sorry you're wrong.
Camera OFF with the battery in does drain a full battery within 3 days.
This has been proven by quite a few. Try it.

Don, sorry you're wrong.
Camera OFF with the battery in does drain a full battery within 3 days.
This has been proven by quite a few. Try it.

yes it is a massive problem that I hope a firmware fix can sort out

Don, sorry you're wrong.

I thought it was worth a shot since I've talked to people that have retrieved their EX a few days later and have found that they had indeed left the camera on, with the resulting dead battery.

I've never been one to leave a battery attached to a camera when it's not being used, but the "camera turned off and battery still draining" issue is something Sony should deal with post haste.

- Don

I hope they are.
When I intend not using my camera for a week duration, I would normally remove the battery so it came as a surprise to us all that it drains in three days.