Has anyone tested the EX on green screen footage yet?

I'd like to know how well EX1's HQ mode with 4:2:0 keys compared to DigiBeta 4:2:2. Will the resolution advantage of EX1 key better or will the reduced color grading (or what the hell these where called again) cause unwanted leaks that resolution can't compensate.

well now that all depends. How can you compare SD to HD? If you plan to down convert the EX1 footage to SD in your timeline to match digibeta then it could end up looking better. Sure 1920x1080 only has 960x540 chroma pixels but that is still more then 720x480's 360x480. Yes ratio is important but again we are talking HD here and not SD. If you wanted to compare SD 4:2:0 to SD 4:2:2 well then of course the 4:2:2 would be better but this isn't the case here.

If you had HD 4:2:2 it would of course be better but it is no where even close to garbage like some people would make you think.

I am a compositor by trade by while I prefer 4:4:4 for my own sick twisted reasons I am fine with 4:2:0 as long as it is dealt with properly.

Keep in mind that progressive 4:2:0 is better then interlaced 4:2:0. If you plan on shooting 720p with the EX1 or shooting 24p,30p or 25p then you will get some darn good results. Turn down the edge enhancement and it will be even better.

I shot some footage in the SP mode. I use the V1u as my B roll cam. The footage keyed very well its was shot with dim available light. I try to post some footage today.

I shot some footage in the SP mode. I use the V1u as my B roll cam. The footage keyed very well its was shot with dim available light. I try to post some footage today.

Green Screen keyed footage wmv Format
XDCAMEX SP mode 24p V1u B roll



http://www.dvdaction.net/index_010.htm

I shot some Chromakey using a fold out greenscreen in my backyard. Used Cineform and Keylight in AfterEffects to pull the key.

http://www.gospeljohn.net/webpages/EX1_greenscreentest.html

HVX users can say what they want about their 4:2:2 compression... I choose resolution over their 4:2:2 any day.

Thanks John, Finally a real test.

Any chance you can put somebody with frizzy hair in front of it. (Or just make yours go wild if you can ). That's the real question.

I had no doubt it would key someone with clean edges well.

By the way I'm as interested in your subjective opinion of the results as i am in looking at footage because I am always looking at compressed footage on the web and don't trust it.

There was alot of ghosting in the hand movement I saw on my computer. Is that web compression or was that really in the picture?
I'm no expert on green screen but it didn't look good to me. here.

Lenny

It looked good to me.

Remember it's 24P.
Standing in front of a camera waving your arms is going to show mothion blur, especially at 24P.

Also, the original was 1920x1080. I can only imagine it looked decent.

It looked good to me.

Remember it's 24P.
Standing in front of a camera waving your arms is going to show mothion blur, especially at 24P.

Also, the original was 1920x1080. I can only imagine it looked decent.

Absolutely right.

The frizzy edging on the fast hand movement has more to due with motion blur than compression. Next time I'm pushing the shutter speed to warp 9.

I was actually quite impressed by the quality of the key. The frizzy hair test may have more to do with the chromakey software capability than the 4:2:2 compression...

What I did notice was the nice key that it pulled from the inner rim of my glasses...keep an eye out for it if you watch it again.

John,

As I mentioned I'm no expert on Green screen and have never pulled a key myself. I've shot a great deal of it though and I try to be extremely careful. Pretty much the only problem that I ever hear complaints about is always frizzy hair.

Incidently, what IRE was your green screen at?

With the HVX200 I had to raise the greens screen level to about 55-60 to get away from the noise. I was used to shooting it about 40.

Thanks again for the test. Do you do a lot of Green screen?

Lenny

I do very little green screen actually but when I do it, I've never really had too much trouble with it.

I didn't check the IRE on the greenscreen - I just threw out a portable screen on an overcast day and started shooting. From what I can judge, it looks like it's around 40 or 50. Noise is certainly not a problem with this camera.

I'll try some frizzy hair for you if I can get a chance!

Very nice both Brian and John, the footage looks great from both of you.

Looking forward to seeing someone with some messy hair next, female shoulder length is usually the one to give me trouble with 4:2:0.. although last time i did that it was interlaced. Eww.

John,

Thanks for doing that test. When you say "Imported using Cineform Prospect and transcoded using "FilmScan" setting" how is that different from bringing the footage into FCP? It's all really about the same 4:2:0 isn't it? What are you using for post?

Since he's using Cineform, filmscan is a name for one of their quality settings (second from the best) when converting to the Cineform intermediate.
Cineform will also convert the 4:2:0 GOP to 4:2:2 Intraframe. Of course it will not increase the chroma samples, but this process adds for better grading in post.

IMO, Cineform is one of the best, if not the best intermediate solutions you can buy!

What platform is that? Is it similar to converting to ProRes422 in FCP?

Since he shot it outdoors, that pretty much guarantees that the footage was recorded to the SxS card and we not looking at a HD-SDI capture workflow, right?

Do you have a wafian you're not telling us about?

Andrew, yes it is similar to converting to ProRes422 in FCP.
I imagine he capture to SxS 35mb, then brought it in and converted to Cineform.

What platform is that? Is it similar to converting to ProRes422 in FCP?

Since he shot it outdoors, that pretty much guarantees that the footage was recorded to the SxS card and we not looking at a HD-SDI capture workflow, right?

Do you have a wafian you're not telling us about?

I didn't even know what a Wafian is until I looked it up... and then I realized I knew what it was already.

Panasonic really has brainwashed people into thinking only their 4:2:2 cameras are capable of a clean key... Now I did run this through Prospect which converts the footage from 4:2:0 8 bit to 4:2:2 10 bit and I imagine that helps pull a better key.



Okay so I tried to push the PME-EX1 even further on this next test. This is done outdoors in the afternoon on a clear day. This is a tough key for any camera to do and I think the EX1 pulls it off decently. There was a lot of green spill on the lion shot so I did garbage matte some of it...

http://gospeljohn.net/webpages/EX1GreenTest2.html

Pretty cute John,
My favorite is the Lion - very clean as far as my uninformed eyes can tell.
Great music.
- Lenny

John, the problem is the footage is so heavily compressed it's makes it hard to tell if it's decent.

Can you repost at a higher data rate?

thxs

Just a thought but if you have shots without the zoom it might do better on the web.

Lenny

You guys certainly do ask a lot! :)

The data rate is 1500 kps - and the whole zoom thing was to see how the program handled moving images (because stills can be done easily all day long and I already did that in a previous test). Pause the video if you want to see a still shot... I can't make out any JPEG artifacting in the compression - it's virtually perfect. The key with the sprig when in close up looks almost perfect to me.

The lion one you see a considerable amount of noise on the black chair part - ignore that (it's not compression artifacting, it's considerable green spill from the screen) and focus on the hair. That one was tough because the sun was setting fast and I had to pull off a shot as quick as I can.

But that last shot is a demo of shooting chromakey footage in horrendous conditions. RED camera, the PMW-EX1 ain't... but I personally think this camera (with Cineform) performs admirably.

I am extremely biased though.


Next, I'll have to try controlled lighting.

I'm sorry, but am I missing something here, both keys look terrible, is this the compression artifact or just a bad key. How can you guys tell ?
Thanks for posting the clips john, but any chance you could post a High rez still.

Eric,

Frankly, I thought John's keys looked quite good. If you're going to criticize someone's efforts, how about substantiating what you're talking about. To just make mere summary statements is unhelpful. Better yet, show us a superior example that supports your standard of a proper key.

Collis Davis

Apologies to all, I did not meant to criticize. I guess when I read my post now , I see how it might have been interpreted, looks like I got frustrated researching whether the EX1 is a good camera to do Green screen or not.
But looking at the clips again this morning, I find it really hard to judge whether the key is good or not.
I valued the time and energy everyone spends here and I know how much time it takes to run tests let alone post results etc...
We have a green screen shoot next week, where I'll be able to do side by side comparisons with the 2 EX1 output modes (4.2.2 HDSI out, 4.2.0 express card) and HVX200, I'll be happy to post stills from the shoot.
so again, no hard feeling.

Apologies to all, I did not meant to criticize. I guess when I read my post now , I see how it might have been interpreted, looks like I got frustrated researching whether the EX1 is a good camera to do Green screen or not.

I saw stuff too. There was a zoom-in where there was extra luminance of the crumpled green screen that was part of the key. And the rest.

But having pulled keys off a wide variety of DVCAM footage shot in many varied situations, I am happy about the EX1's chromakey footage. We can debate 4:2:2 vs 4:2:2, HDV vs DVCPro-HD, but with great keying software like DV Matte Pro and Zmatte, the lens and the pixels (downsampled in the final comp) play far more of a part IMHO.

You can see a key I had to setup superfast at the very beginning of my demo reel: http://elevatepictures.com/index.php?page=reel

I had just gotten the EX1 - shot 1080 24p HQ on a very unevenly lit background. I was able to pull it easier however I will say than some footage I had to key not too long ago coming off BETACAM. I had very little noise. That helped a ton.

Next time I shoot, I'll make sure I crank the shutter speed much higher and also take better use of rimlighting with some magenta gels. I didnt even rimlight that shot which was a killer. I think it works well overall though, convert it into an interframe bf keying though.