Hello All,

Okay, so I am trying to start a small production company for several short films and in the future, low budget features.

Someone mentioned film permits to me, and I thought it was something I should look into, as some of our projects may very well be in everyday, public places.

I looked at the City of Phoenix Film Permit info, and I quote:
"Any filming on city of Phoenix property requires a film permit and coordination through the Film Office.
The requirements are a certificate of insurance naming the 'city of Phoenix as additional insured' for $1 million and the $100 permit fee."

First of all, am I looking at the wrong thing? Is this only for filming in PHOENIX, because we won't be filming downtown or technically in the Phoenix area.

Second, I guess what I'm trying to ask is, do I NEED a film permit? What would be the case scenario where I'd need one? I have location release forms, aren't those enough? Where does my work end and the legality come into play, if ever?

-Alex

While I am not 100% sure, I believe that a film permit is required only if you are shooting on PUBLIC PROPERTY. Filming on privately owned property such as a building or restaurant is not public. Public means land owned by the city, so if you are filming on a road, for example, then you need a permit. If you are in a privately owned park and have a release form from the owner, you do not need one.

However while on private property obviously make sure you get a release from the owner so after the film is made he doesnt comeback and demand ridiculous monetary fees for the use of his land.

Right. I have the release forms for those kind of things. So basically if I was to film on a neighborhood street I would legally need to have a permit?

Right. I have the release forms for those kind of things. So basically if I was to film on a neighborhood street I would legally need to have a permit?Why don't you just call up the film commission that has jurisdiction over the areas where you plan to film, describe what you're planning on doing, and ask 'em rather than getting guesses from third parties? Be sure to get specific as to the scale of your production - there's a big difference on the impact to an area between a crew of 3 and a cast of 2 working with a single DV camera on a set of sticks and a major feature production with 3 semi's and a dozen cube vans of gear, 3 land yacht dressing rooms, a honey wagon, a genny truck, and a commissary. Not that we are reluctant to help, but unless someone online happens to have shot recently in PHoenix anything we offer is just going to be guesswork.

While I am not 100% sure, I believe that a film permit is required only if you are shooting on PUBLIC PROPERTY. Filming on privately owned property such as a building or restaurant is not public. Public means land owned by the city, so if you are filming on a road, for example, then you need a permit. If you are in a privately owned park and have a release form from the owner, you do not need one.

I guess that depends on where you live. I live in White Plains, NY (25mi north of NYC) and a film permit is required even if you are filming on you own property. This sucks, but it really sucks because (unless you are a student), the fees are $750 per day plus 5 million insurance policy. Yup, my taxes are going to good use! Needless to say that that would have been my entire budget. Believe me, I triple checked to make sure that if I shot inside my own house would I need a permit. And you guessed it... I would. They only have several categories you can fall into, and whether your budget is $20,000 or $20,000,000 the fees are the same. They said I could try to talk to someone, but I figured I just let it go and do it anyway. Why draw more attention if they said "No." I've also re-arranged to shoot most of the film in my old hometown (upstate NY; no fee's or permits required).

So, sorry city, state, county... no money from me. I love how they can group me into the same category as a major player.

The buisness side of filmmaking is tougher than making the film itself!

I guess that depends on where you live. I live in White Plains, NY (25mi north of NYC) and a film permit is required even if you are filming on you own property.

WHAT?!

No way! Wow...

I guess that depends on where you live. I live in White Plains, NY (25mi north of NYC) and a film permit is required even if you are filming on you own property.
That can't be right. There's no way anyone can impose permits on your own property.

It's true. I couldn't believe it myself. I had to make two additional phone calls to verify that info. I was even more shocked when I got the forms and it was $750 a day. WTF.

It's true. I couldn't believe it myself. I had to make two additional phone calls to verify that info. I was even more shocked when I got the forms and it was $750 a day. WTF.


note to self,
never film in White Plains, NY

note to self,
never film in White Plains, NY

Ironically, according to my zipcode I live in White Plains, but I pay my town taxes to Greenburgh (Greenburgh has no post office). So my home really resides in Greenburgh and they are the ones who control the film permits. If I really 'lived' in White Plains, then I wouldn't have to pay anything in permits (only permission from the city as long as I wasn't stopping/blocking traffic).

Greenburgh is going off the 'we're a beautiful town and everyone wants to film here' attitude... last I checked there weren't any films being filmed here.

So, note to everyone. Do not film in Greenburgh (at least until someone at town hall comes to their senses and has more reasonable permit fees).

So difficult.

Sounds like you live in White planes to me. That's crazy, $750, is that for a day or for the entire shoot in the town?

Sounds like you live in White planes to me. That's crazy, $750, is that for a day or for the entire shoot in the town?

That's for each and every day (so it would cost me $15,000 for a 20 day shoot). And there are alot of restrictions that go along with that (for example, you can't shoot in one location for more than 20 days in any given 12 month period, you can't shoot before 8am and after 7pm without further fees, etc.). Plus they impose fines for failing to get permits or failing to follow the set procedures: $500 for each infraction plus possible 15 days jail. WTF.

I'm going on the assumption that I live in White Plains too. Most of my shooting is done around here anyway, so I'll be heading upstate for the rest: no fees, and they're happy to have you there.

You need to have insurance, like rental insurance if the gear is busted or stolen, liability if someone trips and falls and likely worker's comp if a cast or crew mate gets hurt. At least, those are the rules in Florida for a permit on public property.

Palm Beach County has free one-stop permitting, which is awesome (except the island of Palm Beach--they're expensive and have their own film commission). Miami now charges like $150 for each permit.

Ever notice how most reality shows aren't done in L.A. and other major cities? Permitting is too difficult.

Heath

That's for each and every day (so it would cost me $15,000 for a 20 day shoot).

That's more than I've paid for my past 10 projects...times 15

I am in Burbank, CA. A few years ago I was videotaping with a Betacam inside my house. There was the smallest size grip truck parked on the street. There were no people to be seen.

The Burbank Police came knocking at the door, came in and stopped me, waiting until the grip truck was gone.

I had to get a permit to videotape inside my own house for a video of me for my own use. The giveaway was the small ($150 a day) grip truck on the street.

Because of my use, my house, etc., the permit did not cost very much, but I needed a permit. I haven't checked lately what is required.

There are cities that are film friendly and film unfriendly.

A number of years ago I got all the location permits for a low budget film -- SAG actors, non-union crew.

The company was doing things like driving rental cars off cliffs, but all the permits were gotten. I remember one occasion where I was rushing to the CalTrans office while the whole cast and crew sat.

It is necessary to check what the laws and regulations are in the area you will shoot. And rules can change from one side of the street to another depending on city and county lines.

"Stealing Shots" or even whole movies have made it into film lore. Ms. Coppola did a hotel sequence this way in Lost in Translation.

I remember not long ago an actor on Charlie Rose talk about a shot they did in London outside one of the bit government buildings very early in the morning with no permits, since they couldn't get permits for what they wanted. This was a very high profile movie, but I don't recall the name.

News people have special rules. I don't know if or how documentaries may fall into a special situation.

The practical rule is probably if you make yourself obvious, you'll have trouble without following all the rules. And nothing should be assumed, because there are stiff penalties in some cases.

Hey guys,

When I was in preproduction for my senior project in college, I went through all the motions to do it "right". I found a section of road on Calaveras Road in Sunol, Ca. and off to the side was a little drop off with a landing to the left and a section of dirt to the right where we can shoot and use as staging. I found out that the road was owned by Alameda county, and was told the dirt was owned by the San Francisco Water Dept.

I was always planning on getting production insurance, and I'm glad I did. Both Alameda and SFWD required proof of insurance. SFWD wanted something like 1mil in liability and 500k in auto in case one of our cars touched the metal road barricades.

Oh they also required a CHP officer to drive down from the nearest satellite station to be there. $60hr three hour minimum plus travel. We were there from 7am to about 2:30pm.

So round and round we went with SFWD being a tad bit of a pain. I was in class fielding phone calls to them then running home to fax forms back and forth etc.

So now I've got everything in order and it come down to the day of the shoot. The officer pulled up and parked in our staging area. He asked if we needed him to stop traffic, we said no. We then asked if he could park around the corner out of the shots which he did. Officer sat in his cruiser the whole time. Looking back I should have just had him hang out with us, probably would have been more fun for both of us.

We're into our fourth take when a SFWD truck rolls up and right out of the blue asks for out permit, PA runs over shows permit. Guy scowls and leaves.

All in all it was a good experience and quite painless. The insurance company cool with all of SFWD's constant demands etc.

Oh yeah because I was a student, Alameda threw out the fee which saved me $500, so did SFWD and the insurance only cost me $120 for the five days.

Yep,

Todd's right. I've run across this myself. Some jurisdictions require permits regardless of public or private property.

If you're not shooting in the legal boundaries of Phoenix then a Phoenix permit won't do anything for you.

If you're in a distant suburb, small town etc you're going to get a lot of "I'm not really sure who you ask..." Just keep making calls.

In my town Fredericksburg Va, it's actually handled by the tourism office (there is a lot of colonial and civil war stuff shot here). I had to fill out a form and send them the script. They look it over and figure out how many resources are required (police etc) and let you know the cost. The cost of filing for the permit was either free or not much money, and we didn't need any additional resouces. And this was a permit to shoot on a business' property (parking lot) and one side street.

We did have to provide an insurance cert, the going rate seems to be one million. That ran about $100 a day and you can print your own certs out on line.

We only pulled the permit for the one day though we shot inside other business for other days.

When they saw the size of our production, they didn't really care. There is a university in town and it always helps to have students around. If anyone complains, point to one of the kids and say its his project for school.

Awesome, James! I always love seeing behind-the-scenes photos with the crew and gear in action with the cast and location. Very cool and congrats.

Heath

Man, as far as White Plains/Greensburgh goes, I'd just film away and to heck with the permit. I can't believe anybody is going to be checking up on that, as long as you were only shooting interiors. I'd consider it peaceful resistance. Burbank seems like a different story though. I'll bet what they're really trying to keep tabs on is adult.

Hey thanks Heath. I posted a teaser and some more BTS photos in another post.


http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=109603

Man, as far as White Plains/Greensburgh goes, I'd just film away and to heck with the permit. I can't believe anybody is going to be checking up on that, as long as you were only shooting interiors. .

Yeah, that's what I did. Strange enough it seemed after I made that initial call inquiring about permits I noticed many 'pass by's' by the police. Like they tracked my phone down and was checking up. Maybe I got paranoid. :) I shot anyway.

Todd

Yeah, that's what I did. Strange enough it seemed after I made that initial call inquiring about permits I noticed many 'pass by's' by the police. Like they tracked my phone down and was checking up.America, the leader of the free world? I am not sure whether to find all this more interesting (looking into the legal rationale of requiring film permits on your own property) or disturbing - a bit of both, I guess...

- Martin

Much like "consenting adults in their own home kinda stuff", I sincerely doubt that the imposition of a fee to create film in one's own house passes muster.... but that no one has had the $$ to challenge it.

As for controlling adult, it has been shot in cars, so does the government charging a fee to film in a car across the board justify the concern over "adult" being shot there? ... and DO we have a first amendment? Seriously overbroad in my estimation.

Now, of course, in a residential area, businesses can be prohibited based on zoning requirements... and THAT is a valid point - but charging a fee to allow "filming" as a commercial activity does not satisfy zoning requirements if otherwise prohibited as a commercial activity in a residential area to my mind.

I bet if someone took this case up to a higher court the entire house of cards that allows it to stand would collapse... (speaking as an attorney but one who does not specialize in constitutional law.)

Yeah, the issue of film permits have always made me wonder. I mean, if you're a photographer, there is no law that restricts you from taking a photo of anything you want, where ever you want as long as you are on what is deemed "public property" (roads, sidewalks, parks, etc). Photographers have faced the same scrutiny, "you can't take a photo of this building, or that building etc). But the law is, if you can see a building from public property, you can legally take a photo. No restrictions.

So, I was wondering where film permits come into play. Film, and video for that matter, are simply pictures. So, I guess the issue lays more in the "PHYSICAL" production. Cast and crew. Similar to a parade, a public speech or exhibition, or whatever. They're more concerned with where vehicles are going to be parked, if the production is going to obstruct everyday activity, and if residents are going to be "bothered" by a production, etc etc etc. That's my best guess.