I've poked around the posts and see people happy with their Merlin and happy with their Glidecam 4000. I am ready to purchase one or the other with the vest and arm as well. With the price being close enough for me to not be a consideration, I am just curious to see if anyone has their own opinions handy to say why I should swing one way or the other. What regrets might you have, or raving reviews? What pros does one have over the other? (Besides the famous namesake emblazened upon the arm, that is!)

FYI the camera will be a Panasonic HVX200

Jim,

I use a Glidecam 4000/Smooth Shooter combo. The question that I would pose would be what do you consider to be the combined weight of your rig when complete?

Are you looking to add any lenses/adapters, extra mic, video lights, outboard monitor, etc?

Keep this in mind as the total weight the merlin arm is suggested to support is 7 lbs. The Glidecam is able to heft up to 18. In my configuration with a XHA1/WD-H72 the base weight of the camera and adapter alone is 5.8 pounds. After adding an external mic/shockmount and a video light it would top out over 7. The weights to counterbalance that and then the addition of a monitor and batteries would quickly bring the entire rig into the 15+ pound range.

All things considered I have heard a great deal of positive comments about the Merlin and I think it likely has a superior action and build. Particularly the arm with it's dual spring arms (the X-10 for the Smooth Shooter would provide this as well however).

The things I have come to find as minor issues with the Glidecam are things like the following.

1) The camera plate adjustments are very finicky. With knurled brass screws to loosen and then adjust the plate it is probably tougher to position the camera for balancing then the micro adjustment screws on the Merlin.

2) The Glidecam gimbal may not be completely linear. I think this issue may be a little overblown by many people because after learning a bit about dynamic balance I have found that mine is quite linear. However there are enough posts out there to assume that this may be an issue with the Glidecam systems. Non-linear gimbals = non linear pans. The Merlin has no reports of this from what I have seen.

3) The system is a bit heavy. Particularly if you were to ever shoot handheld. The merlin system would be lighter and have a weight advantage shooting handheld.


On the plus side I have many things I am very happy with about the Glidecam/SS combo.

1) It delivers very good footage. As will the Merlin I'm sure. With a X-10 addition to the arm system of the SS the rig would handle even better and give an additional 2" of vertical movement over the Merlin system.

2) It is well built. The arm is well designed and solidly made. The sled as well. The parts are machined to close tolerances and a good smooth and quiet operation. The vest is comfy and supportive too.

3) It can carry a pretty heavy load for it's size/class. At a total weight carrying capacity of 18 pounds it can lug a pretty loaded fair sized rig.

Both systems are very capable so either way you go I hope you'll be happy!

A final thought.....Steadicam does have the name behind it so you may get more nods of approval on that alone. The footage can be the same with either system however ;)

James

PS: my only REGRET with the Smooth Shooter is that I have to wait until spring to really start working a lot with it. Gonna go crazy shooting indoors.

Thanks, James. This helped tremendously. Yes I will be adding to the rig- matte box, monitor, 35mm convertor, - so the weight consideration alone has my choice made for me. I guess I'd have to move up to a Flyer to keep with the steadicam, and then price is a significant consideration in that range.

Thanks again.

Jim

Jim what did you go with in the end and how is it working out for you?
If anyone else can help too that would be great, thanks.

I ordered the 4000 with the X10 arm & vest. Should be delivered this week according to my rep. So I have not as yet shot with the rig. I will def let you know what I think of the setup once I put some time into using it, which I will do right away upon delivery.

Jim

Congratulations Jim, hope your very happy with your choice. I'm particularly interested that you added the X-10 arm. I have the base system with a single arm and find it to work quite well so the extra spring arm with it's adjustable vest angle should really work a treat.

If you have any questions about the rig feel free to ask me anytime.

James

Hi all. This is an update on my Glidecam experience:

The 4000 and the X10 setup has arrived. So I thought I would give you my first impressions and experience. I have had the rig for four days and here is what I think so far.

First of all, I am using a Panasonic HVX200 with a Chroziel Matte Box. If you are shooting with this camera and are even considering using the Glidecam 4000, don't even think about it without the arm. This puppy is heavy! Using this with one hand is nearly impossible and I am a strong fellow. Just balancing it was an exhausting workout.

As well as a pain. The instructions for balancing leave quite a bit to be desired (hint to Glidecam). For example- when balancing the rig, the instructions will tell you if it swings too much when you move it side to side, then it is out of balance and you need to correct it.

Duh. No kidding. Tell me something I need to know. Like exactly "How to correct it?" They don't say it needs to be lighter, or heavier, or the pole should be longer or shorter. Just that it needs correction. And you can move the weights forward or inside too, but they don't explain why you should, or under what circumstances you would put them close, or far out. This kind'a made me sizzle under the collar. I mean BE SPECIFIC! Tell me HOW! But instead you gotta figure it out yourself with trial and error. Which I think I have, since it is pretty darn stable but I still only think I have it corrected 90%. I am still working on getting it perfect.

That is my only complaint with the product is the documentation. Construction seems very high quality. The vest and arm are sturdy and look as if will last for years. When adjusted, the vest fits me like it was tailored, despite that I am a 6 footer that is no stranger to the gym. My shoulders are broad and the waist slim, so it conforms to fit regardless of my varied dimensions. But a really thin person or overweight fellow might have a problem fitting this well.

Now let me add another important point. If you plan to use this in the future? Get it now. I said I was no stranger to the gym. I can squat almost twice my own weight. I am 195 pounds and have a 32 inch waist. In other words I am in shape. And yet this thing kicks my @ss! Yessir! Wear this for 10 minutes and your lower back is making you whine like my ex-wife for a cigarette. Because this thing pulls on you in ways that you are not used to. I am talking pain. I am not talking "Gee this is tiring". No. I mean "Get this @#%! thing off me now" pain.

Now it might just be since I am tall it exaggerates the pull on my lower back. So your experience may not be the same. And despite this bad news, I have good news, in that I am overcoming this dilemma.

I have been wearing it twice a day. I stand in it and pretend to shoot the TV as if shooting a scene. This is allowing my body to get used to it. Then I'll wander around my hi-rise doing the famous and obligatory "follow the big-wheel in The Shining" move sans the big-wheel and dead twin girls. (My neighbors think I look oh-so-cool in it by the way). And already I can feel the difference. By day four I am seeing an increase in stamina. I have full faith that I will not be crying like a little girl in front of my clients.

On to performance. This is another reason to get this ahead of your needed shoot. It will take practice. I will say, that right out the box I was doing incredibly smooth shots running full tilt down the hallway. Much better than handheld. But still it looks sloppy compared to what I have seen others shoot, and compared to my expectations. But that is because this is like any of our video tools- you must learn how to use it correctly. You need to practice. So practice I shall. And I am certain it will pay off.

I will endeavor to continue to post my experiences with this new tool. As for now I am quite satisfied that I made a good decision getting the 4000 and X10.

Jim

that's a shame it's hurting you.... I can wear the merlin/vest/arm with the ex1 all day long and not be bothered by it.... just feels like I'm wearing a back brace that won't let me bend over.

maybe something is not right?

maybe something is not right?

For now I am assuming that the "something is not right" is probably a combination of a heavy rig, and that my back in particular is sensitive to the pressure, and that a bit of time to get my back acclimated is all that is needed.

I worked with a Steadicam operator a few years ago on a film. He told me that when he went to the classes when he first got his rig ($25K by the way) that it was a common complaint that the newbies had- their backs were killing them, and that they wondered what the hell they had gotten themselves into. But in a short while they were over it. Just like working out for the first few times, you get sore. Then your body adjusts.

Thanks for the concern!

Jim

I think Charles posted about correct posture for wearing it a stabilizer a while ago.

Jim,

In an effort to help you with your beginners problems, I will suggest you look into our "Stabilizer Basics" training DVD. It will help with keeping the rig balanced through the center of your body which greatly eliminates lower back strain. It doesn't get rid of it completely but helps.

The are also many exercises, tricks and tips, and even a blooper reel at the end. We don't make a lot of money selling it but it has been well received and our customers have said that it has been a valuable tool in the learning process.

We are awaiting Charles Papert's training DVD which we hope he will get around to doing sometime soon. His explanations on steadicam use are unequaled.

Tery
Indicam

Do a workshop. I just got back from one and I consider it a good investment. As well as improving your operating/knowledge, you will learn proper posture and foot work. You may even prevent an injury in future. With the Merlin set up you can get away with a lot of stuff because it's so light, but once you step into a big rig/camera it's a different story.

Jim,

It certainly does take a great deal of practice to build both operating skill and stamina to operate a stabalizer rig. I would echo the thoughts of the most recent posts that a course or workshop could be very insightful. I would love to do something along those lines but there is virtually nothing in my area of the world in that regard. From my perspective the best I work towards is watching whatever I can in various clips of steadycam operators to get some perspective of how they are operating their rigs. That and analyzing steadycam shots to see what principles are applied to the shot.

I'd be interested to know what your thoughts are for the trim adjustment the X-10 system gives you where it attaches the arm to the vest. This may be a bit of the cause for the fatigue you are experiencing. I have the single spring arm system and no trim adjustment and what I find is that the rig naturally wants to sit about 15" from my chest in the center of my body. This is assuming I am in a straight posture. If I start to hunch forward the rig will want to swing out. Of course any shift in the hips will also start to throw the rig left or right. With the trim adjustment are you able to effectively change where the rig feels most balanced?

As you mention yourself as well you are starting to build up some strength which is exactly what I found. It was fatiguing at first but as I worked with it each day for progressively longer periods it became less stressful. This is coming also with the caveat that I used to have to use the sled/camera without the smooth shooter for several months before purchasing the arm/vest.....so it was a pleasant relief in comparison.

Happy shooting. :)
James

We are awaiting Charles Papert's training DVD which we hope he will get around to doing sometime soon. His explanations on steadicam use are unequaled.

Tery
Indicam

I'd buy that !! Get on it Charles!

Yea - Come'on CP - teach us some of your magic. I'm about to get my (first) kit and dying to try

I guess I'm one of those users that had (have) problems with the Glidecam 4000. As I complete newbie, I was terribly frustrated - it seemed as though the sled was balanced one minute and not the next. After a lot of experimentation, I learned the camera was balanced in one direction, but then when I turned the camera 180 degrees, it was not. So that's how I learned about non-linear gimbals, first hand. I'm now very wary of any gimbals that use bent metal.

So when it came time to buy a full rig (on a small budget), I researched and went with Indicam. Their gimbal is machined out of a solid piece of aluminum. I found the Indicam sled much easier to balance than the Glidecam and it remained balanced regardless of the direction the camera faced. Also, the two wing screws on the bottom (a very simply design) were much easier for me than the eight thumb screws on the Glidecam. I also really like that you can move the gimbal up and down on the Indicam where you can't on the Glidecam - very flexible. A clear winner for me.

Normally I run a sled that's about 20lbs, so I'm carrying around about 35lbs total. My back was soar at first, but it gets easier as the back grows stronger. I have Terry Thompson's "Stabilizer Basics" training DVD and it was helpful. Through watching the DVD and practicing, I've learned to keep the camera close to my body to reduce back strain (reducing what I call the "lever effect") and I've learned to toss my 20lbs sled over my left should if I need to take all of the weight off of my back for a bit (this one I learned from the DVD). I can do about 4 hours in the rig now before needing a break.

Todd

Thanks for all the advice gang. I'll check out the DVD. For now the exercise of using it twice a day seems to be working too. Also doing "good mornings" at the gym. (http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/exercises.php?Name=Stiff+Leg+Barbell+Good+Morning)

Haven't had time to shoot with it yet. Too busy building out the bluescreen studio and doing post on three gigs. But I will shoot soon.

Jim

Well, this thread managed to pass me by somehow.

I saw a chap with the dual-section Smooth Shooter at a trade show a few months back. While he was wearing the rig, I asked him to run in place so I could see how the arm responded. When he stopped running, the arm kept bouncing for a substantial amount of time. Just like the shocks on a car, this is not desirable. I'm a bleedin' broken record on this one but when it comes to the small stabilizers, the Pilot/Merlin arm (and it's immediate big brother, the Flyer arm) are unequalled by ANYTHING else out there. Whether or not this is important depends on the operator. If one is hoping their stabilizer shots will effectively replace a dolly, they will need the greatest isolation via the arm. This sort of thing rarely shows up if you are following a subject closely or sprinting down a hallway. But if you are walking down a line of inanimate objects for instance, a lesser arm will produce a "pogo" type of vertical movement unless the operator learns how to overcome it, as much one can do so.

Bottom line--technologically speaking the Steadicam brand offers a great deal more than just the famous name when it comes to the small stabilizers. This is coming from a guy who owns 6 figures worth of stabilizer and none of it is Steadicam-brand...! but that's another story.

The training video--sigh. Terry, you'll never let me live that down. It was on my list for this out-of-work-due-to-the-writers-strike period, but other things came first. However if I ever do get to it, it won't be covering basics such as posture and simple operating technique, more likely the art of operating, shot design and advanced concepts (like the workshops I'm currently teaching).

Hi Charles, put me down for one-)

i can't understand which stabilizer is the best for me?
i have the sony hvr-hd1000 that weights about 10lbs with accessories.
i need the rig to be easy to wear about 4 hours...
what do you recommend?

Put me down for one, too, Charles.

I'm off to go film UWOL stuff with a Z1 and Steadicam J R. Second time I've used a steadicam for an actual project (the first was a 4 hour marathon, 2 days in a row, but that's another story)

I still feel like I'm stumbling through it. Definitely would love to lose that feeling. :)

C

i can't understand which stabilizer is the best for me?
i have the sony hvr-hd1000 that weights about 10lbs with accessories.
i need the rig to be easy to wear about 4 hours...
what do you recommend?
I believe your best choice is the Steadicam Pilot. It is rated at 4-10 lbs.

The unit itself can't be beat for comfort, quality and the way it operates. People who have done so say it can easily be worn for hours.

I'm not the one to say if 10 lbs. is to heavy for it for sure. The next step up is the Steadicam Flyer, but I believe the Pilot would probably be the choice.

After having seen all the competition, I don't think anything compares or does what you need except the Pilot (or maybe the Flyer), but I still say the Pilot, at its lower weight and slightly smaller size of the Flyer.

Perhaps one of the experts will confirm or dispute my conclusion.

***********Edit**************
Based on the answers after mine, I will amend my recommendation for a 10lb camera to a Flyer, for the reasons stated by Charles. Under 10 lbs, I think the Pilot has a lot going.

When I tried on the Pilot I also tried the Flyer. there is little practical difference in them. (The Pilot arm is a 7/8 scale of the Flyer arm.) The Flyer costs close to twice as much, but it also has some additional features and options on top of the greater weight capacity.

It's a bit dangerous to buy a stabilizer that can just barely carry your intended load, as you never know what ELSE you might need to add. The Pilot can probably take a lb or two past what it is rated, but it would obviously be a shame to end up with a rig that can't handle the next accessory you buy (or you have to strip off because the rig can't take it).

The Flyer will of course handle 10 lbs room to spare, thus I would recommend it for this stated package. It may be a bit heavier than the Pilot, but with some conditioning there's no reason it can't be used for hours. I've worn both Pilots and Flyers for 45 minutes or so and I tend to forget I'm even wearing them at all, they seem to have literally no effect on my body! But this is because I'm used to flying much heavier loads. Novice operators will need time to build up the appropriate muscles as well as learn how to most efficiently accommodate the rig on their bodies (hint: holding the rig in front of you rather than to the side is more tiring!)

Both Pilot and Flyer can be worn for hours at a time (with most loads) without any trouble after a bit of conditioning.

Once the camera goes under about 10lbs, I don't notice it's there. And I'm not used to the biger big rigs like Charles is.

- Mikko

It's true. I just woke up from a nap and discovered I was wearing a Pilot the whole time. Can't wait to look at the footage.