Hi there,
I am champing at the bit to buy the EX1, but I want to know for sure that if I shoot my next project on an EX1, I'll be able to edit it. I run Avid Xpress Pro (version 5.7.5) on a Mac (10.4.10).
I know there's been discussion about how compatible this camera might be with Avid Xpress Pro, and talk about files having to be "wrapped" or "re-wrapped", etc., but that was before the camera was released. Now that it's out, would someone who has the camera, and has AXP on a Mac (if there is such a person on this forum) be able to tell me how well, or how badly they work together... is they work together at all?
thanks,
Malcolm

... I'll add this advice that David (not sure of his last name) provided on this forum a few weeks ago:
"Avid Xpress and Media Composer has been able to use MXF for sometime now. I'm thinking though that HQ files might have to be converted, after the MXF rewrap, to a DNXHD type file because currently there isn't an MPEG 2 35mbit codec for those platforms. So I'm guessing that may end up being a slow process. On import you'll have to choose a DNXHD codec like DNXHD 145 or DNXHD 110. Hopefully Avid will quickly adopt a new long GOP 35mbit setting like they did for HDV "smart splicing" in a "near future" release.
But, I'm sure you will be able to edit in any number of project types, including 720/60p, 1080/24p, etc.using DNXHD and use MXF vs. OMF.
However, the SP datarate 25mbit should currently work fine, and should be much faster injest in an HDV project setting"

I don't mind editing my first few projects using 25mbit files, if indeed this will work. He did say (see above) "should currently work fine", though, so I'd love to know whether in fact it is working fine.
Can anyone confirm that an EX1 and Avid Xpress Pro will get along fine, if I shoot (and edit) 25mbit?

Thanks,
Malcolm

[QUOTE=Malcolm Hamilton;784988I don't mind editing my first few projects using 25mbit files, if indeed this will work. He did say (see above) "should currently work fine", though, so I'd love to know whether in fact it is working fine.
Can anyone confirm that an EX1 and Avid Xpress Pro will get along fine, if I shoot (and edit) 25mbit?

Thanks,
Malcolm[/QUOTE]


Malcolm, I am right now editing HDV-material (25 Mbit) from the EX1 using Avid Media Composer 2.7.7 on a PC. It works very well! I cannot definately confirm that it will work with Xpress Pro on a Mac though but it should. However - Xpress Pro does not have support for XDCAM HD 18/35 which probably means that it will not have support for the 35 Mbit XDCAM EX resolution either, once Avid has support for it.

Xpress Pro does not have support for XDCAM HD 18/35 which probably means that it will not have support for the 35 Mbit XDCAM EX resolution either, once Avid has support for it.
Thanks for the note, Ola... but would you mind clarifying what you said above? Do you mean that Avid Xpress Pro won't be supporting 35Mbit, or will be supporting it, at some point?
The good news for me is that, even if I have to wait for 35Mbit support, I'll be able to edit in 25Mbit.
Can any others on this forum weigh in on this as well?
Cheers,
Malcolm

Thanks for the note, Ola... but would you mind clarifying what you said above? Do you mean that Avid Xpress Pro won't be supporting 35Mbit, or will be supporting it, at some point?
The good news for me is that, even if I have to wait for 35Mbit support, I'll be able to edit in 25Mbit.
Can any others on this forum weigh in on this as well?
Cheers,
Malcolm

Sorry if I was unclear! Avid Xpress Pro did not use to support XDCAM HD - only Media Composer did this. However I just checked Avids site and found this on the Xpress Pro list of supported codecs:
"XDCAM HD video codec (MPEG HD) selectable bitrates: 18, 25, 35 Mb/s NEW"
As Avid has committed themselves to support HDCAM EX "in the future" it should logically be supported on both the Media Composer and Xpress Pro since they now both support XDCAM HD.
At least that is my conclusion.

/ola

Thanks Ola for your help. I'm feeling a little more secure about this now; still concerned about some workflow issues, but I'll continue gathering information before I take the plunge.
Cheers,
Malcolm

You never said what kind of Mac you have. This is the workflow on PC and I guess its the same for Avid on Mac but it would only work on Intel Macs if I understand correct that the Sony Clip Browser is Intel only.

Shoot with EX1. Set it to SP 1080i50 (I guess SP 1080i60 would work to)

Hook up EX1 and computer using USB.

Start Sony Clip Browser, look at clips you want to use.

Export the clips you want from Clip Browser to a folder on the computer. They will be .mxf files.

Import the .mxf files into Avid.

I tried this on Avid Media Composer 2.7.2 and on PC. I do have a solution on how to get HQ 1080p25 and HQ 1080i50 into DNxHD on ex.bolanski.com and some thread here at the forum.

Thank you Andreas, for your reply.
I apologize in advance if I seem slow on the uptake, but that's just because I worry that one change in the hardware/software equation might mean something works for one person, and not for another (you're on a PC, I'm on a Mac).
I just got this information from a dealer who spoke with a Sony rep:

“According to Avid's site 18, 25 and 35 Mb recordings are supported, but not necessarily from an EX1. I was told by a Sony rep that the formating of the video from the EX1 is different than that recorded on to XDCAM discs. There are no proxy files on EX1 recordings. I think that is the reason why Apple had to patch FCP in order to use it, even though a separate application needs to be used for ingest. 25 Mb video may work (or maybe only in Media Composer) but it isn't officially supported”

So... 25Mb/s MIGHT work. I know you're making it work on a PC, Andreas... but will it work for me on a Mac? (and does it have to be an Intel Mac?)

Thanks for your patience...
Malcolm

I know you're making it work on a PC, Andreas... but will it work for me on a Mac? (and does it have to be an Intel Mac?)

Hard for me to say, I do have files you can try for your self with at http://ex.bolanski.com. I don't know for sure but I think Sony Clip Browser are Intel only.

Download my files and give it a try. There is also tips on how to use ffmpeg to get HQ formats into Avid.

/Andreas

Thanks Andreas... I have your site bookmarked. Which file should I try?
Malcolm

Hi,

I just heard from a guy who's got the EX1 and Avid Xpress Pro... but on a PC.
He can do this:
- shoot 25Mb/s
- export MXF files (via clip browser) to his PC
- import these MXF files into Avid Xpress Pro.

Just as Andreas has been doing, but with Media Composer, and not Xpress Pro. So now we know it works with Xpress Pro. Great.

The only question now is:
will clip browser (for the Mac) export MXF files?

Cheers,
Malcolm

Malcom, I have a zipped file called BPAV.zip under the the article called Test shots for ffmpeg. It has all formats but one and have the complete file structure of the SxS card.

They are only 9-12 frames long but do well for testing import into NLE's.

Hi Andreas,
I've got Avid Xpress Pro running, and I've tried to import both MP4 files and XML files, and get the 'file type not supported' message.
I guess maybe I need the Sony clip browser to rewrap the MP4 files first?
If this is what I should do, should I download it... from where, the Sony website?
Thanks,
Malcolm

P.S. Do you know if the Sony clip browser works with PowerPC Macs (like mine), or does it work only with Intel Macs?

Donwload somewhere on www.sonybiz.net

All other questions are answered in my original post.

Thank you Andreas.
Malcolm

Hi all - -
Just to update. Here's one EX1 shooter/AXP editor's experience, with a Mac.
In his own words (from the AXP/Mac forum):

“I have had success importing the files into the Avid. The key is to convert the files to MXF first. This is done with the supplied Sony Clip Browser Software. (Make sure it is version 1.01.07.1567 or later) One caveat is that the Mac version does not convert. So find yourself a Windows box for this process. You can convert directly from the cards or from media copied to a hard drive. Once converted you can bring the MXF's back to the Mac and import them. It recognizes the XDCam format and brings it in. The format displayed is HDV when it is imported.

I have had 2 issues.
1. The timecode did not import in. I am not sure if this is a problem with the conversion or not.
2. I had a 25 minute clip fail to import half way through. This half way point was where the camera split the clip in two so I think the conversion didn't work well. On this clip I used XDCam Transfer to convert to QT and then imported that file. That took 2 hours as opposed to 8 minutes the other way”

Sounds pretty awful to me!!! Any thoughts? No EX1 + Mac + Avid Xpress Pro users out there (other than the poor fellow quoted above?)
Cheers,
Malcolm

I am one such user (Mac + AXP + EX1) and guess what, that is one of the reasons I haven't bought the EX1 yet. Another is that I am waiting for the SONY USB XDCAM HD deck/drive (forgot the model number) and also for SONY to make it capable of recording, as well as playing. Yeah, the pieces need to fall together a bit more for a fully functional workflow. I am told this should be a reality some time after March. We'll see...

Jim - -
have you (or has any other EX1 + Avid Xpress Pro + Mac user you might have heard from) tried to import the 25Mb clips?
I'm confused as to whether when people are saying the above combination of hardware and software won't work, they're talking about the 35Mb (which I know for a fact won't work with Avid on a Mac, and I can live with this for the short term anyway) or the 25Mb.

Andreas has tried to help me by sending me some sample files, but I don't have an intel-Mac, so I'm really out of luck. (by the way, Andreas, I think you use a Windows computer - - here's a little application that automates the conversion of 35Mb 1080 .mp4 clips into DNxHD files that import into Avid:

http://www.entitynine.com/xdcamex/XDCAM_EX_to_Avid_0.5.zip



Unfortunately for me, this works only in the Windows-world).

So, back to my Mac/Avid/EX conundrum: I really want to purchase the EX-1, and a new intel-Mac (probably the MacBook Pro), if (and only if) I know for a fact that I can edit the 25Mb files... I don't mind if I have to wait for Avid to update to allow for the 35Mb files at some future date. But I'd need to edit 25Mb right away.
Anyone who can do this, or is doing this, please let me know as soon as you can.
Thanks all,
Malcolm

If I am correct the 25MB files are essentially HDV and hence it should be possible to edit on AXP just as you can material from the Z1 and other HDV cameras.

Can somebody who has done it perhaps confirm the actual workflow?

Yes, thanks Jim. I think it should work, too. But as you say, the EX 25Mb files are “essentially” HDV. That might be enough for it not to work, as far as I know.
After all, Sony labels the EX-1 XDCAM, but it's a different file format from all other XDCAMs, I think anyway.
Hence my caution.
I'll wait to hear from someone.
Cheers,
Malcolm

Hi again,

I just heard from an Avid guy, who told me:

“there is no MXF conversion built into the Mac version of the software. This means that you would have to convert the clip either in a windows box or on a dual boot Intel Mac (never tried by me). I have no news if this will change in the new version of the Clip Browser software”

So, unless someone out there knows of another way of doing it, I guess I have to buy a Windows machine (what's the cheapest one I could get?; I guess it needs an ExpressCard slot, right?) or get a MacBook Pro, and set it up as a dual boot machine.
Or wait for Avid or Sony to update; or get another camera.
Cheers,
Malcolm

Malcolm,

I am not sure what you are talking about; the Clip Browser software is, to my knowledge, a Sony product, so how can an Avid person talk about the future plans on upgrades of this software? Only SONY can provide that information.

So, I wouldn't quite give up yet. Because: either Avid can bring an upgrade that will allow ingest of the format/codec directly or SONY might provide a conversion via their Clip Browser.

You're right Jiri. The clip browser is Sony's... maybe the Avid guy was just trying to say that he suspects Sony will update it soon.
I just hope Avid isn't waiting for Sony, while, meanwhile, Sony's waiting for Avid, to update things.
I can't help thinking there are more than a few of us Mac/Avid/EX1-wannabees... someone should be listening to us!
Malcolm

Let's hope, Malcolm. Although, unfortunately I have to say that Avid is not known for listening to their "lower end" AXP user base much....:-(

Hi all,
I'm still waiting for Sony and Avid to update, so I can use the EX1 with Avid Xpress Pro, on my Mac... what a pain.
Anyway, here's my latest plan - - since I know the EX/Avid combo works on a PC - - what if I use Crossover (from Codeweavers)? Anyone heard of it?
On their website (http://www.codeweavers.com/products/cxmac/) they say ”Untested: We have not tested this application We do not know if it works, and we do not support it“
... so I'm putting the question out to shooters/editors who may have tried it...
(I can't try it out myself because I'm still using a G4 powerbook; I'll upgrade to an intel-based MacBook Pro as soon as there's a reason to... i.e., when Sony updates it's clip-browser software for Macs, or Avid updates, or when/if I hear that Crossover works!)
Malcolm

If I was you I'd just hold my breath for a couple of more weeks. They say a solution from Avid might come soon...

Hi Ola,
O.K., I'm going to take your advice (I'm a 'glass-half-full' kind of guy) - - and hope that all the planets will align for me (and Jiri, and whoever else out there is waiting). You've heard rumours of an Avid update, and I've heard that Apple will be updating the MacBook Pro (not that that's key to any of this)... that leaves Sony... do they not still need to update their clip browser for the Mac/Avid combo, or would these concerns be taken care of with an Avid update?
Malcolm

Hi all,
It's a few weeks later, no Avid update... so I've worked out as clearly as I can exactly what my predicament is, and what I THINK my options are...

I'd really appreciate advice re any mistaken assumptions on my part, and on the best workflow I can achieve (again, I'm wanting to shoot with the EX1, and edit with Avid Xpress Pro on a Mac) - -

BECAUSE: there is no MXF conversion in the Mac version of the Sony's Clip Browser software

I WILL HAVE TO: use the PC version of Sony's Clip Browser, one way or the other...

TO DO THIS I HAVE FOUR OPTIONS:

1. take a PC laptop on shoots; copy media from EX-1 ExpressCard to this laptop; (back up by copying media folder to external hd or flash drive); back in my office I'd connect PC laptop to my MacBook Pro, copy the MXF files to MBP, and then import into AXP
UPSIDE: it will work...
DOWNSIDE: I have to purchase another laptop (with ExpressCard slot); I'm not sure a Mac laptop and a PC laptop would “recognize” one another.

OR

1. set up my MacBook Pro as a dual boot machine, able to run Windows on one partition.
workflow: in the field, I'd boot into Windows, and copy ExpressCard to MXF. Back in my office, I'd boot into Mac OS and (how would I do this next step???) import the MXF files, which I'd then import into AXP.
UPSIDE: don't have to buy another laptop
DOWNSIDE: have to purchase Windows; have to sacrifice part of internal hd; have to boot up from one OS to the other

2. use VMWare of Parallels, which will allow me to run the Windows version of the Sony Clip Browser while in Mac OS.
UPSIDE: won't have to boot up from one OS to another
DOWNSIDE: have to purchase Windows AND VMWare or Parallels

3. use CrossOver, which allows you to run certain individual Windows apps on a Mac...
UPSIDE: wouldn't have to buy Windows (not at all sure about this)
DOWNSIDE: I kind of doubt that CrossOver works with the Sony Clip Browser

As I said at the top, any advice would be very much appreciated.
Malcolm

There is likely another path:

In the field copy media to your Mac laptop
In the office transfer media to a Windows computer
Do the conversion, transfer and subsequently ingest MXF files back to the Mac

Upside: no need for more expensive PC laptop, get a cheap Windows desktop
Downside: it's still a pain in the neck to have to do this, get SONY to release a version of Clip Browser for Mac

A brief update... couched with a “FWIW” because this is speculation, 2nd hand...
A poster on the Avid/Mac forum said today that a contact at Sony suggested to him that at NAB '08 (starts in just about a month... April 11) Sony will be updating its software such that “the native EX file will convert and write to a standard XDCAM HD mxf file format”...

So with just a little (more) patience...

Cheers,
Malcolm