I actually think the price differential helps to separate the men from the boys, so to speak. When everyone and their cousin can afford this high quality gear, it becomes a little harder to sell yourself. Not all clients can differentiate the value of a skilled craftsman, so if Joe Bob can deliver HD video content to their cousin for 1/5 of what I charge, just because he has an HV20, or even an EX-1, it becomes a harder sell.

I just think that there are too many people on this board that expect the cost of entry to be low enough to allow everyone a chance to have the most professional gear available.

Does the Ultimate seem like a big price jump? You betcha? Will I buy one? Maybe. Its still a hell of a lot cheaper than a RED One or a P+S Technik, but if it really is the holy grail of adapters and if it can help to differentiate me from dozens of other owners with cheaper 35mm adapters in the area then it is worth the price.

My two cents.

BE

Steve

Yes, I'm not condoning the practice, but its not hard to see that India and China do this type of stuff every day....

If your in the manufacturing business its not hard at all to find all of the pieces you need
for this setup...

In my industry there are " second source " companies that come around every week with
exact copies of hardware that are very very hard to produce, offering the second source
product at drasticly reduced prices... it suprises me how good some companies are at reverse engineering.

If the Ultimate was being offered at a price point where a second source company could not
make much of a profit then it wouldn't be such an easy choice for a knockoff as the profit
margin wouldn't be enough incentive...

But with a price differential of $4500 assembly to ~ $500 in parts... I think you get the picture... I'm betting it wont take long...

i am betting it will take long.

Have you seen the Redrock rip off from India? It is not good!

The problem most people have here is they are looking at it in comparison to the current price of the extreme, m2, brevis etc. This is for a different market, this is for the p & s, movietube pro market. If amateurs want to get it then up to them, it is leagues ahead of the rest. Once you use the Ultimate it is hard to go back.

If you cant afford it don't complain. This is a company who are not being greedy, they are branching out to a different market, if they were being greedy they would sell it for even more. The more it costs the more likely the rental market will snap it up as, this is the ridiculous part, things like this are only really taken seriously in that market over a certain price level.

Quality gear costs money. It is still dirt cheap compared to the opposition in the category yet still blows them away.

Seriously they aren't being greedy. These guys are ambitious, not greedy.

i am betting it will take long.

Have you seen the Redrock rip off from India? It is not good!

The problem most people have here is they are looking at it in comparison to the current price of the extreme, m2, brevis etc. This is for a different market, this is for the p & s, movietube pro market. If amateurs want to get it then up to them, it is leagues ahead of the rest. Once you use the Ultimate it is hard to go back.

If you cant afford it don't complain. This is a company who are not being greedy, they are branching out to a different market, if they were being greedy they would sell it for even more. The more it costs the more likely the rental market will snap it up as, this is the ridiculous part, things like this are only really taken seriously in that market over a certain price level.

Quality gear costs money. It is still dirt cheap compared to the opposition in the category yet still blows them away.

Seriously they aren't being greedy. These guys are ambitious, not greedy.


Phil,

In all fairness, it's easy to say that when you are able to get it for dirt cheap if not free from them.

If Letus gave me sick discounts and freebies, I would defend them to the death. Let's face it, 35mm adapters are really made for the low budget indie film makers. If you have the means and the money, you won't be buying a 35mm adapter. You will use a film camera or a Red. It's that simple. btw I don't agree with ps technik and movietube prices so don't think I'm just bashing letus.

I'm just tring to figure out how you can go from $1,500 to 5k and think you are going to market to the big wigs.

It's like what hyundai is trying to do with their gensis that is over 50k marketed to the upper class which will NEVER do well. Who would pay 50k for a Hyandai when they can get a bmw, audi, lexus...etc?


Just my 3 cents

I am very disappointed in the price considering I thought it was going to be like 3000-3500 durring NAB, knowing that usuallu NAB pricing usually drops a little by the time it reaches the street I was awaiting this instead of bying the Extreme per Phils input to just wait for the Ulimate, However am shocked at this new price... and Yes I agree Movietube price is pretty out there as well.... I just do not understand the pricing on these 35mm devices...Now that Red has been proven if you start to evaluate buying an EX1/3 and then buying a Letus Ultimate, then buying glass... you are walking a fine line on extra cost for a RED.

I am very disappointed in the price considering I thought it was going to be like 3000-3500 durring NAB, knowing that usuallu NAB pricing usually drops a little by the time it reaches the street I was awaiting this instead of bying the Extreme per Phils input to just wait for the Ulimate, However am shocked at this new price... and Yes I agree Movietube price is pretty out there as well.... I just do not understand the pricing on these 35mm devices...Now that Red has been proven if you start to evaluate buying an EX1/3 and then buying a Letus Ultimate, then buying glass... you are walking a fine line on extra cost for a RED.

FWIW in realistic terms a RED One package is probably over 35k.

Well, It doesn't seem to be taking long at all....

There is a thread over at the Letus site where there is a claim of a " Ultimate like " adaptor
coming out of Europe for around $2000 soon...

The poster does say its not quite the Ultimate but simular methodology...

I'm sure everyone in the adaptor industry is disecting the Ultimate methods and will soon
come running...

Thats competition :-)

I have to agree with Steves post...

Sell 200 at $4500 = $900,000, or sell 2000 at $1800 = $3,600,000

not that they are greedy or anything

Dennis,
Am saddened to read your post.After reading all my posts and helping out anyone who asks. Would I reallly put my name to a product because of "freebies"?
I have spent so much money on gear in the past year, all at full price and given my assesment of that gear to you guys.

For the past two months I have been lucky enough to have been evaluating a pre production ultimate. If this adaptor was a pile of crap I would say so. My word has never been or ever will be compromised by anything. Phil

The market will decide the worth of this product. It is worth every cent a buyer is willing to pay, and not a penny more!

The entitlement sentiment is not realistic, nor is the price of admission argument (men versus boys), nor is the expectation that it could never go down in price. If it's really that good, it will encourage competition. Right now, it doesn't have any.

The market will decide the worth of this product. It is worth every cent a buyer is willing to pay, and not a penny more!

The entitlement sentiment is not realistic, nor is the price of admission argument (men versus boys), nor is the expectation that it could never go down in price. If it's really that good, it will encourage competition. Right now, it doesn't have any.

Oh come on, if all this gear was cheap enough for all of us to afford that wouldn't help the profession at all. Phil's point about it becoming viable "professional" gear because of the price is true. That, I think, is why many rental houses don't carry Extremes, Brevis', etc. Buy an Ultimate, and if it is the ultimate, in fact, you will have a great piece of gear that can be rented out.

BE

Dennis,
Am saddened to read your post.After reading all my posts and helping out anyone who asks. Would I reallly put my name to a product because of "freebies"?
I have spent so much money on gear in the past year, all at full price and given my assesment of that gear to you guys.

For the past two months I have been lucky enough to have been evaluating a pre production ultimate. If this adaptor was a pile of crap I would say so. My word has never been or ever will be compromised by anything. Phil

Don't stop Phil! You have been an invaluable asset to this community. I am sure there's thousands of people that have greatly benefited from your thorough gear reviews, jaw-dropping beautiful footage, picture profiles, etc. I for one am always excited - like a kid on Christmas day - when I see you've posted a new entry on your blog. Keep up the good work, and please ignore the critics. What you're giving us is truly priceless!!!

ps. I bought the EX1 because of your footage. I may buy the Ultimate if you keep making videos... would love to see another EX1/Ultimate piece!

we will never thank phil enough for what he is giving to the community. If you don't trust his neutrality, don't listen to him. Don't come here saying such things if you haven't read all the posts he made the last few years, which are always right, brilliant and balanced.

Phil, people here love your work, trust you and count on you to go on. Thank you phil !

Dennis,
Am saddened to read your post.After reading all my posts and helping out anyone who asks. Would I reallly put my name to a product because of "freebies"?
I have spent so much money on gear in the past year, all at full price and given my assesment of that gear to you guys.

For the past two months I have been lucky enough to have been evaluating a pre production ultimate. If this adaptor was a pile of crap I would say so. My word has never been or ever will be compromised by anything. Phil

Phil,

I hope you did not take it the wrong way. I have visted and watched all your reviews and loved every one of them. Your contributions are much appreciated.

I'm speaking strictly on opinion. no 2 people can look at the same thing in the same exact way. You see the ultimate and you say that it is worth $4,500 where as I think otherwise. It's just opinion. Nothing wrong with you as a cinemetographer or person. I've said time after time, I love your work.

If I will be purchasing a a camera for 7k, then an 35mm adapter for 5 k and another 5k for nice cinema prime lenses... I might as well get a red one or scarlet to be honest with you.

Honestly I would buy the Ultimate in a heartbeat.

I have struggled for 18 months with the limitations of 35mm adaptors. I have bought a Redrock M2, Letus Flip Enhanced, 3 Brevis, 5 diffusers for the Brevis and two Ultimate Extremes. All full price. Every one has a limitation. The Ultimate as far as I have seen has none, apart from the price. Now add up how much I have spent on adaptors and look at the price of the Ultimate. That is one seriously good bargain.

You seem to forget, in fact most of us forget just how spoilt we have become with what we can buy now for so little. When I first started in the business there were no small cameras. The Betacam Sp cost £50,000. Everything was crazy money. Broadcast stuff still can be crazy money, hence I still have no wide angle for my F350 as it would cost £12,000.

With this $4,500 piece of equipment I can create images i never dreamt of and yet still operate like a proper camera. No worries about shutter, now worries about f-stop. It is ironic that the more expensive, pro version of the Letus is better for beginners as it is harder to f*** up. Even as recently as Tokyo I made mistakes with the Extreme, stopping down too much. It happens.

Letus could have charged more and still sold a bucketful. People are forgetting there are two markets at work here. The enthusiast, populated by many people on this forum and the professional. As has been pointed out many pros do not buy gear they rent. This adaptor is aimed at the rental market yet that market still thinks it is too cheap to succeed. It's a crazy situation.

All i know is I adore this adaptor. I have never shot such good stuff as I do with this. ALso, I am sure the competition will up it's game now. SGPro are bringing out the blade and Redrock are hard at work on the M3. Of course the better these get and the more expensive it becomes with r&d and parts that will be reflected in the price.

We have become spoilt with the bargains we can get, let's not forget one major thing here. What would you be saying if Letus hadn't brought out the Ultimate? Would you be complaining? No! Now if they brought out the Ultimate and discontinued the Extreme you would have ever right to complain and shout "GREEDY!" but they haven't.

Nothing has changed. You can still buy your extreme and I am sure they will continue to refine and improve it. I cannot imagine them wanting to alienate their user base!

Best,

Phil

we will never thank phil enough for what he is giving to the community. If you don't trust his neutrality, don't listen to him. Don't come here saying such things if you haven't read all the posts he made the last few years, which are always right, brilliant and balanced.

Phil, people here love your work, trust you and count on you to go on. Thank you phil !

Not stopping! But thanks chaps. Just a silly thing for Dennis to say. I know not everyone can afford the best. If we could we would all be shooting on Reds, or F35 etc... you need to make the best of what you have. If that is an HV20 on it's own, go for it. You can do wonders with everything if you put your mind to it!

I know not everyone can afford the best. If we could we would all be shooting on Reds, or F35 etc... you need to make the best of what you have. If that is an HV20 on it's own, go for it. You can do wonders with everything if you put your mind to it!

I agree. Not everyone with the talent has the money, and not everyone with the money has the talent. That's why the price of admission is not a litmus test. Perhaps the concerns of the real pros could be managed not by the means test (price of the equipment) but by licensing and accreditation like every other profession.

Because it should be obvious that Letus would understandably be more interested in making money than setting the price of the ultimate high enough to keep the pretenders away from the gates of the profession. That's nonsense. Clearly they set the price high because as it's obvious to you, they made the ultimate leaps ahead of the competition, and it commands the price, by your judgments, a bargain.

I'm betting that they set the price at this point because they know they have a very competative product in respect to the other suppliers of adaptors and they looked at the competition and said...

if they can charge that much, then we are going to charge that much because
we are now on equal ground or better than whats presently available at this moment.

I'm almost suprised at this stage that some companies like Sony or the like aren't bringing
out their own versions...

it is surprising that it is just independents making these products. You could imagine Canon or Nikon making one for their lenses. After all their optics are so good why wouldn't they?

Another vote for your work, your great blogs, and all the great info you've provided Phil. Somebody will always complain on these forums. My only complaint is that I missed you at NAB.

Lenny Levy

it is surprising that it is just independents making these products. You could imagine Canon or Nikon making one for their lenses. After all their optics are so good why wouldn't they?

Yes, and I imagine with their resources they could make a static Ground Glass version which would be the cool.

Another vote for your work, your great blogs, and all the great info you've provided Phil. Somebody will always complain on these forums. My only complaint is that I missed you at NAB.

Lenny Levy

what are you guys like 7? Is this a school yard? All I did was disagree with Phils justification on the price and everyone is so quick to defend and throw me in the corner.

Grow up guys, please. Where are those guys who were also complaining about the price of the ultimate?? They seem to be hiding under a rock. God forbid somebody break someones heart around here.

Your defensive comments are really unnecessary really. Deliberate, don't argue.

Phil, In all fairness, it's easy to say that when you are able to get it for dirt cheap if not free from them.

If Letus gave me sick discounts and freebies, I would defend them to the death.

Dennis, these statements are not a disagreement on price, but an accusation that Phil skews his reviews in return for free or discounted products. And you have absolutely no information on which to base your claims. That's what bothered him. Read your own words!

Dennis, these statements are not a disagreement on price, but an accusation that Phil skews his reviews in return for free or discounted products. And you have absolutely no information on which to base your claims. That's what bothered him. Read your own words!

Vito,

Why don't you call sony or letus and ask them to send you a prototype model 6 months before it comes out. When you do that, then we will talk about whose accusing who of what.

i'm pretty much done with this conversation.

i'm pretty much done with this conversation.

Sounds good to me...

Phil,

In all fairness, it's easy to say that when you are able to get it for dirt cheap if not free from them.

If Letus gave me sick discounts and freebies, I would defend them to the death. Let's face it, 35mm adapters are really made for the low budget indie film makers. If you have the means and the money, you won't be buying a 35mm adapter. You will use a film camera or a Red. It's that simple. btw I don't agree with ps technik and movietube prices so don't think I'm just bashing letus.

I'm just tring to figure out how you can go from $1,500 to 5k and think you are going to market to the big wigs.

It's like what hyundai is trying to do with their gensis that is over 50k marketed to the upper class which will NEVER do well. Who would pay 50k for a Hyandai when they can get a bmw, audi, lexus...etc?


Just my 3 cents

I think you need to back off on this kind of thinking Dennis! If Phil can get a good deal he'll take it but I don't think he's simply going to back a product because he'll get something! The guys got integrity!
ps ~ zzzzzzzzz

And whatever, Phil does have free products... He is giving it away in a movie contest - see his blog.
but that's not the point. I think the case is closed :)

Guys, let's get real. Even if Phil is getting some discounts (which I believe him he is not), he deserves them perfectly. Pointing it out to him is simply bad manners.

Vito,

Why don't you call sony or letus and ask them to send you a prototype model 6 months before it comes out. When you do that, then we will talk about whose accusing who of what.

i'm pretty much done with this conversation.

Really not cool with that statement Dennis. If you are done with this conversation do not start it in the first place.

I have helped you out over numerous emails throughout the past year. If you now honestly don't think my advice or opinion is valid as it is skewed by the showering of freebies that clog up my house then don't bother asking for my opinion or advice, because THAT is what you implied.

It wasn't a disagreement on my saying why the price makes sense, this is what you said "If Letus gave me sick discounts and freebies, I would defend them to the death." Now call me stupid if you want but that is not a disagreement on pricing, it is a bordering on slanderous statement without foundation or justification. Simple as that.

It is also very personal and against forum rules. Want to have a debate like this? Then have it in private with me, call me up. Am always happy to talk to people.

Hi Phil,

Just wanted to say thanks for sharing your knowledge with us, it has been indespensible for a begginer like me. Love your work, website and posts. You have saved me from wasting my money thats for sure, and I have bought the right gear instead of finding out the hard way. Thanks alot. Once I get my kit together (its slowly getting there) I will be entering your competition. Cheers.

Dennis you should apologise mate, I think your post made Phil seem unappreciated.

Hi Phil,

Just wanted to say thanks for sharing your knowledge with us, it has been indespensible for a begginer like me. Love your work, website and posts. You have saved me from wasting my money thats for sure, and I have bought the right gear instead of finding out the hard way. Thanks alot. Once I get my kit together (its slowly getting there) I will be entering your competition. Cheers.

Dennis you should apologise mate, I think your post made Phil seem unappreciated.

to be honest more disappointed in Dennis. We have had numerous emails back and forth about stuff. Didn't expect him to say such a dumb thing!

Anyway we need to move on from this.

Got some new bought gear to share. The new shoulder mount. ironically a more expensive knock off of the "el cheapo" support, is superb. Will post details and photos soon.

Got the bebo coco adaptor which gives me three power outputs. Two hirose and one dtap . perfect for a top light or even powering the new ultimate. It's a bit ugly and fiddly though and only takes the big batteries

Got some new bought gear to share. The new shoulder mount. ironically a more expensive knock off of the "el cheapo" support, is superb. Will post details and photos soon.

Got the bebo coco adaptor which gives me three power outputs. Two hirose and one dtap . perfect for a top light or even powering the new ultimate. It's a bit ugly and fiddly though and only takes the big batteries

Philip, please share some insights on that shoulder mount, indeed.

As to the Coco-ex: I too am using one, but only with the PAG M 20 W light with soft-start feature. Be careful - too much power can not only shut down your battery (can be revived on the charger), but the drainage will shorten its life considerably!

Bebob has recognized this and are now recommending less than 10W total output power (apart from the camera, of course). This is why I'm planning to use mine with the nanoflash mainly (20W is too much for this battery, and anything less than that is no good, anyway).

best to use led lights as they draw less power...damn was planning to power my laptop, tv, mini fridge, 2 x 2kw hmi off the bebob. I guess that is too much. Maybe skip the fridge

can it power a built in coffee machine. that is what I was really hoping for in the EX-3, but alas, I have had to rig one myself.

can it power a built in coffee machine. that is what I was really hoping for in the EX-3, but alas, I have had to rig one myself.

yes it can, but it wont froth the milk

no need. i have my own special ways to froth my milk.

Yo Bloom,
I never heard back from you if you wanted a free beer/martini while I am in London next Monday.

BE

i want that Martini but am up in Manchester giving a talk about why I am great and you aren't :-)

its only 3 hours from London, that's a block away in US terms, no?

as much as a 6 hour trip to deflate your ego once you realize how much more style this American has would be worth it, I think work will interfere.

Next time though, or if you are ever in Boston (the land where all the people went when they realized that England was a bad place to live) we can meet and get a drink.

Cheerio,
BE

I've been working on a methane power source for my ex1/pilot/zylight z90.... it's quit simple really.... just a 1.5 meter lenth of 1/2 tubing and a 1cc honda 4 stroke. Only downside is that I have to down 3 cans of baked beans a few hours before the shoot.

Check out the blog with new entries

1. ShotPut EXpress review with pictures
2. New EX1 battery charger
3. When bad pixels go wrong

All @ http://web.mac.com/stevecahill/Steve_Cahills_Blog/Blog/Blog.html

Check out the blog with new entries

1. ShotPut EXpress review with pictures
2. New EX1 battery charger
3. When bad pixels go wrong

All @ http://web.mac.com/stevecahill/Steve_Cahills_Blog/Blog/Blog.html

You should stop using .mac. Can't see your page or add a comment :
This service is temporarily unavailable.
....

For the SxS unloading software, I see 2 options I would like you to comment :
1) format the card after unloading : when the card is not formated on the EX1, it seems the EX1 doesn't like it... Have you experienced that ?
2) renaming the card : same problem here. If you rename the card, the EX1 will ask you to "recover" the media at each start or each time you plug the SxS card in.

Last question on your LCD change : why did sony send you the LCD screen ? Don't you have a guaranty ? Did you ask to do that way so you don't have to return your EX1 back ?

Many thanks for your work and sharing !

Apple was updatng .mac account servers for the new mobile.me service, so the server was down.

I wanted to replace the LCD as it went bad, and I did not want to wait 10 days for service, plus it gives others a option to do their own replacement. I did it for the good of the video community!

I do not use format in ShotPut or do I rename the card in ShotPut, the only exception, I will rename the card before QT import and or the folder that contains the media so the media is referenced by a name that I give it, Shotput will make that name of the folder you are transferring into for you, in the menu.

.mac web site is down often (for some maintenance); it happened a few times in recent weeks;

I will be purchasing an EX1 thanks to the briliant work of two people; Philip Bloom, and Tom Guilmette. These two men produce work that truly conveys the beauty created for this Earth by a higher source. The stunning quality of the work of these two I aspire to achieve.

These two masters of our trade endorse the Letus used with a EX1. That having been said I come to my question. Finally.

I am looking at also purchasing a Jib Arm with a motorized head (over and underslung.) I would love to know if anyone, including Tom and Philip, have tried or have any advice where using the Letus Extreme with the EX1 on a Jib with Dutch Head. Anyone?

David-

Letus Ultimate Summer Day, Latest shoot with the Ultimate @

http://exposureroom.com/members/stevecahill.aspx/assets/33d2b44c5fcb4c3ebcadf62d527d0b86/#1405

Very nice stuff Steve. Are you using a dolly or indieslider type thing for some of those tracking shots?

Still love to meet up sometime and see your Ultimate.

http://web.mac.com/philip.bloom/Blooms_Blog/Blooms_Blog/Entries/2008/7/15_Duxford_Air_Show_with_Redrock_Matte_Box.html

This entry talks about my experience with the new Redrock Mattebox on the EX1 and Letus.

very nice it is too!

Phil,
I've left the following questions on the Redrock Micro's website, but they were never answered - could you please tell me:

- what parts (if any) are needed to use the mattebox straight on the EX1
- same with the Letus Extreme (and Canon FD lenses I'm using)
- is it possible to mount it using the Letus 30+15cm rail system?

Does it come with some set of step-down rings, or is it taken care of in a different way? TIA!

http://web.mac.com/philip.bloom/Blooms_Blog/Blooms_Blog/Entries/2008/7/15_Duxford_Air_Show_with_Redrock_Matte_Box.html

This entry talks about my experience with the new Redrock Mattebox on the EX1 and Letus.

very nice it is too!

DAMN !!
I was trying to look at your footages and you just "private" the video and removed the link on your page .
GRRRR !

Hope to see this soon :)

sorry had to make it private for time being. email me and i will let you see it Sebastian

Nice video Philip! Very nice! The Letus Ultimate is living up to its name.