Another opinion please: When running the mic cable from the transmitter in a hidden mic situation, do you usually go up the back and over the shoulder, or do you go up the middle of the front and why?
Also, do you usually tape the mic to the inside of the outer most garment, or do you tape it to the layer underneath and why? I'm curious to see how your technique compares to what I've been accustomed to doing.
Thanks,
Bernie

There are so many factors to consider when putting a lav on someone that the question is far too broad. It depends on the shot angle, clothes the actor is wearing, fabric type, male or female yadda yadda.

I've hidden mics transmitters and wires everywhere.

Makes sense to me that there may not be any right way to do this, but I'd love to hear some lav rigging stories. I've read some stuff about the mechanics of lav placement, but that's really different from doing it.

I've had very limited experience, and let's just say it hasn't gone smoothly. My first subject was an older gentleman with an ample belly. As I was threading the lav up his button-down shirt, the little wind muff fell off. I thought about just pretending it didn't happen. I eventually fished it out, but I'm still suffering from post-traumatic lav-placement syndrome.

Okay, one 'rule of thumb' is let the subject do the threading. ESPECIALLY if its women. Hand them the mic, or the tail of the lav, and ask them to drop it down/thread it up through their shirt, sweater, dress... whatever. That way there's no inadvertent embarrasing mistakes or 'brushing'.

Learn how to double up a 'broadcast loop', to take the strain from the cord, and alleviate brushing noise.

Carry moleskin to attach to clothing to alleviate rustle from hidden mics.

I always have alcohol swabs on me so I clean the lavs and transmitters before putting them away.

On a woman: I more often than not clip the mic on the middle part of her bra and run the cable under her underwire (or have her do it) and drop it down the small of her back and clip the transmitter there.

On a man: sometimes the same thing. I tape it between the boobs in that little triangle part. But it depends on what he's wearing. Some clothes are so loud! I'll hide it on his hat, his hair (really tough with short hair) clip it on the seam part of the ring of his t-shirt (needs adjusting from time to time), in his tie if he's got a tie clip. Within the folds of the costume.

Tape by the mic so it doesn't fall and tape the cable where you think it'll pop out and make an appearance during shooting.

Get creative. Miking is fun.

Because many lav RF mics use the mic cable as the antenna, I try to route the cable so clothing is the only barrier between the cable and the receiver antennas.

I don't understand Waldemar. What other barriers would there be? You're not surgically implanting the thing.

Huh?............

I usually go down the front first, then up the back.

On a woman: I more often than not clip the mic on the middle part of her bra and run the cable under her underwire (or have her do it) and drop it down the small of her back and clip the transmitter there.
You're lucky... your name is Anna... Ervin can't do that... :)

What exactly is an underwire?

You're lucky... your name is Anna... Ervin can't do that... :)

What exactly is an underwire?

You might be surprised - maybe I just grew up in a more liberated era but a lot of folks aren't quite as sensitive as you might imagine. And experienced actresses are often used to running the cable themselves when they need to transit "sensitive" areas. Outside the bra but under the blouse you ain't gonna see any more than you would if she was wearing a bathing suit anyway. Fastening a lav in the cleavage is a not uncommon occurance on feature film and episodic TV production. By paying VERY close attention I've spotted a couple of mics on "CSI" <grin>

Yes, a pro actress woun't be oftened if you help. Just pretend it's your sister. Everyone must work as a team.

Sometimes they don't give you a choice...

Hillary Clinton grabbed the lav out of my hand and said..."I'll do that".

Ervin, and "Underwire" is the U shaped wires that are sewn into the bottom of bra cups, to give more 'shape and support' to those women who need it... usually the larger cup sizes.

Okay, more information than you probably needed, but you asked for it.

When threading a woman with a lav, I never 'assume' she will be comfortable with me reaching towards her blouse. I always instruct her that I 'need to run this through your blouse', and then read her body reaction. Actresses might (MIGHT) be comfortable but most CEO's won't.

I don't understand Waldemar. What other barriers would there be? You're not surgically implanting the thing.

Body density. I've worked with all kinds of wireless mic systems over the past 25 years and I have encountered numerous situations where the most unlikely thing has caused interference.

The common interference things, like competing frequencies in use somewhere nearby, TV station broadcasts, HVAC motors during start-up, operating cell phones too close to receivers, etc, significantly diminished with the growing use of the less populated UHF systems and the tighter wavelengths.

I first became aware of how the combined body density of a room full of people could disrupt a RF (radio frequency) mic signal when an assistant had unwittingly placed the receivers on the floor beneath a table at the back of the room. The receivers should have been placed so only air stood between the transmitters and receivers. The company I worked for had just started to switch to UHF RF mic systems. That was about 10 years ago. About five or so years ago I ran into a poor reception situation while using a mid priced RF system under perfect line of sight placement circumstances. Fortunately, bride, groom, and officiate were all wearing RF mics (a very rare thing in itself). I simply turned the groom's mic off.
Later, I could not discover a reason why the goom's mic had failed. It must have taken me a week or so of puzzling over the issue before I remembered that meeting room incident of five years earlier. I had another wedding at the same venue coming up soon under almost the same equipment circumstances (no bride wireless). I decided to repeat the equipment set-up exactly. For no other reason than "just because", I threaded the groom's lapel mic around the left side of this body so most of the cable would transmit signal through his tux and not his body as he faced his fiance'. I recorded very good quality audio.

Since then, being a bit superstitious and not liking to take unnecessary risks, I always consider the groom's position during most of the ceremony when putting the wireless mic on him.

I've worked with all kinds of wireless mic systems.

Which systems are you referring to...

Sometimes they don't give you a choice...

Hillary Clinton grabbed the lav out of my hand and said..."I'll do that".

Having heard some inside stories about miking Hillary Clinton, I can understand why. (sorry, laughing out loud)

And Ervin, you most certainly can. How old are you that you don't know what underwire is? I know this is a sound forum but haven't you seen a woman in her bra before?

And contrary to popular belief, ahem, underwire is a very common feature in any bra, regardless of bra size. It blows.

And Richard, I always explain what I'm doing with the lav while I'm doing it, it helps them and me. I've never had an uncomfortable situation. Although sometimes men will pull their pants down. The more seasoned ones. I for the life of me don't know why but it's funny regardless and I call them out on it. Some of them will even drop their pants then stand still with their arms out. Thank God they're usually wearing boxer briefs.

I first became aware of how the combined body density of a room full of people could disrupt a RF (radio frequency) mic signal when an assistant had unwittingly placed the receivers on the floor beneath a table at the back of the room. The receivers should have been placed so only air stood between the transmitters and receivers. .

Of course one should never put Transmitters or Receivers Antennae on the floor for good transmission and reception. There is a reason TV transmitter towers are tall and most people don't put their TV antennae on the floor either. As for always getting direct line of site on multiple transmitters this can be very difficult to achieve so this is what often separates the great radio mics from the good, or mid priced ones etc. I have found heavy clothing (like winter jackets) can greatly diminish the effective range of a radio mic as well

And Ervin, you most certainly can. How old are you that you don't know what underwire is? I know this is a sound forum but haven't you seen a woman in her bra before?
I certainly have seen "wired" bras Anna, I'm not "that" old... LOL... Although I have yet to mike one!

The problem is my English - it's not my first language. I was born Hungarian in Romania (that's two languages I speak at "mother's tongue level"), and after 8 years of French I only studied English in high school... so I can't even call English my second language (ESL)... it would be my fourth... Honestly I thought your mistyped underwire for underwear (does the bra qualify for underwear or is it a separate category?).

Question Anna: when you say you "clip the mic on the middle part of her bra" - does that mean under her blouse? Or on the bra but on the outside (through) the blouse?

...
Question Anna: when you say you "clip the mic on the middle part of her bra" - does that mean under her blouse? Or on the bra but on the outside (through) the blouse?

Not to put words in Anna's mouth but a common location in dramatic production where it's important to keep the mic hidden is under the blouse on the bit of strap connecting the two cups together in the mid-line, sometimes between the bra and the blouse and sometimes on the inside of the bra hidden within the woman's cleavage (depends on her 'endowment').

Which systems are you referring to...

Both single and dual diversity systems. Also systems that utilize a single antenna for multiple frequencies. By brand: SONY, Shure, Samson, Audio-Technica, Telex, Sennheiser, Lectrosonics, and NADY, the brand that started it all but lost both market share and reputation by not paying attention to details. By time frame: 1980 to present.

When in the Meetings and Conventions industry as an audio visual technician I usually had six to twelve RF microphones in use on any given day. Most of the time I had the luxury of working in one facility where I knew where the problems would occur. When I was doing road show gigs, everything was analog and everything changed with avery new venue. Working an old facility that had experienced several renovations was, well, an adventure. Wireless technology wasn't that well understood by anyone. The walls were loaded with supposedly disconnected electrical wiring that still carried reduced AC voltage and sometimes DC voltage. Ground loops were an occupational hazard, and an absolute given in high humidity environments like Florida. Basically, if a tool used electricity it had a radio frequency signature, and was likely going to be your enemy. Honestly, I didn't like wireless mic's very much then. They were vulnerable to just about anything. On the bright side, they amost guaranteed overtime. Things are much less stressful now.

Well, wireless has come a long way since consumers coming into hotels and asking you to hook up their 'nadys' because they were too cheap to rent the Telex. But I agree, hotels and convention centers have some of the dirtiest AC and XLR feeds. Have many nightmare stories from doing that for 3 years straight, and then... "out'a there"! The year... 1984-1987. That's too long ago, don't mention it again.

Question Anna: when you say you "clip the mic on the middle part of her bra" - does that mean under her blouse? Or on the bra but on the outside (through) the blouse?

Sorry for the late response Ervin, just saw this.

Yes, under the blouse on the bra. You rarely have any shirt noise that way.