... which seems to be Canon's intent, as it does play out Canon's 24f format, though it will not shoot in it.

WOW!!! It plays it but doesn't shoot in 24f... now that is brilliant of them imo. For significantely less then the cost of an HDV deck, you have a 24F deck that doubles as a killer b-roll/b-cam/vacation cam. *Slowly releasing the grip of my beloved HC1*... :)

WOW!!! It plays it but doesn't shoot in 24f... now that is brilliant of them imo. For significantely less then the cost of an HDV deck, you have a 24F deck that doubles as a killer b-roll/b-cam/vacation cam. *Slowly releasing the grip of my beloved HC1*... :)

I'm still wondering about how mastering an entire short/feature back to tape and playing the content via Component out would fair. I mean, you'd literally be playing back the project via a Hi-Def signal, right?

^^

Yes and imo it looks killer in 1080i. One of the first things EVERYONE says when wathcing one of my finshsed products in 1080i is 'LOOK @ THE QUALITY'!

Of cousre I keep my workflow simple and NEVER go beyond 1 generation of degradation.

Works fine as a deck for my G1. I just shot some stuff today, and was happy not having to break down the cam to capture. Just grabbed the tape and headed to the edit bay. The HV10's small footprint on my crowded desk was a blessing as well. Taking up no more space than and empty big mac container... maybe I should clean up around here... nah.

So most of you are having good luck with this little guy? I know the theoretical abililities of it, but in my short experience the unit was unstable for capturing. What I mean is it would stop playing a lot. I had 2 one hour long tapes to capture and I would leave the room 10 minutes into a capture and come back and it would have mysteriously stopped completely. The capture app (Cineform HDlink) was still running and waiting for a bitstream but the camera was stopped. I couldn't get more than 10-12 monites to capture without it stopping.This happened repeatedly for 3-4 hours until I finally decided to capture with the A1, which worked flawlessly.

I ended up going back to an XL-H1 so I had to return the A1 and HV10.

I am still on the fence about getting another HV-10 because of this. But it sounds promising that you are all having success. Maybe I just had a bad one.

Peace!

yeah Marty, mine did this too yesterday whilst playing out to a DVD burner - just stopped for no reason every so often. and it didn't do it every time either, what could this be? has anyone else had this?

I'm gonna wait for the HV20. It will be able to shoot 24p.

We're looking to buy an A1, but are there any HDV decks that work with it completely right now (in both 60i, 24f, 30f)? I haven't found any yet. I see four potential options right now...

1. Just use the A1 as a deck. Disadvantage: wears out heads.

2. Buy a HV20 and use it as a deck instead. Not an ideal work environment, but I'd have a small, compact B-camera. $1099.

3. Buy the FireStore FS-C. Recognizes and records 60i, 30f, 24f video, correct? At least it will with the 2.1 firmware upgrade. Advantage: Tape-less work-flow. No capturing. $1249 for 60GB (4.5 hours of HDV).

4. Buy Sony's HVR-M15U deck for $1799. It will capture 60i, not 24f or 30f. Buy some other deck that's out there that works with 24f and 30f, and I just don't know about it? Or are there none?

Does this all sound correct? Are there any other options?

Frequently asked, Bryan. Please refer to several other existing threads which already discuss this exact topic, and post any replies to those specific threads. Many people choose option #2.

I plan to shoot about 50 hours of tape, is it okay to use my A1 as a VCR for video capture, or should I invest in a seperate cam? I can't afford a tape deck, but I was wondering if the Canon HV20 is a good VCR cam for the A1? Will it be able to handle the stream without dropping frames?

Thanks

50 hours will not but a big strain on your A1. But if you plan on keeping it awhile and shoot lots of footage you migh consider getting the HV20 as a deck and B camera. I own both and use the HV20 to edit. It captures footage, including the A1's 24f, with no problems.

To keep the hours to a minimum use "capture now" as opposed to "batch capture" to capture a whole tape. You cand then delete the footage you don't need from you NLE.

I am also using the HV20 as B cam and to capture even from Sony cams. The difference is that I capture component out to DVCPRO HD codec. It is just easier on multi-cam shoot.

If you're shooting 24P HDV with your XH A1, there is no deck, so you have to buy either the HV10 or HV20 if you don't want to load footage with the XH A1. I personally would go for the 20 because it also does 24p and there might be times you'd want a smaller, lighter and less conspicuous camera.

It's not all that bad to use your camera as a deck if you do it sparingly, and 50 tapes isn't all that much. I also think it's easier on the camera if you capture in one pass. If you're using FCP, latest version, you can do that and FCP will magically divide it into individual clips for you. So, instead of going through the tape, setting an in and out point for the first clip, rewinding, cueing, playing, stopping, recueing, then going to the next clip...what you do is just set an in point at the beginning and an out point at the end and capture it all. You can then name your clips after they're captured. If you have 50 takes on a tape, the camera is going to be stopping and starting about 100 times using traditional capture. By doing the whole tape, you save a lot of mechanical wear.

Or you could purchase something like a Firestore.
Footage transfers to computer then takes minuets instead of Hours, and you have the tapes as a backup.

2 Questions:
1. Will the HV10 playback over firewire 24f mode from tapes made on the A1?
2. For tapes recorded with the A1's 24f mode, if played back on the HV20 (or Hv10) how does it come across firewire on capture as 24p or 24p with the HV20's strange pulldown. (OK, maybe it's not strange, just difficult to work with in FCP in a 24p timeline.)

Rick

I have an A1 and an HV20. 24f from the A1 plays just fine on the HV20 and inputs to FCP as 24p 23.98fps just like it would from the A1. no problems

Good to hear that. That's what it's supposed to do, but it's nice to hear it for sure from a user.

i concur! hv20.

however, on down-converting or hdv importing it does not split scenes in Vegas.

anyone else? for importing HDV, I have been using HDV split.
Cineform NEO does not detect scene splits either.

Anyway, as a deck it's fine and you get a camera too.

What happens when you play back a tape recorded on the HV20 in 24p on the A1? Do you still get the pull down that is difficult to extract to no pull down 24p?

Rick

Anyone using this deck w/ the XHA1? Any problems or issues playing all resolutions/frame rates etc?

Frequently asked. Please search before posting.

All Sony HDV decks will play back Canon 1080i60 video.

However no Sony HDV decks will play back Canon 1080p24 or 1080p30 video (otherwise known as Frame mode or 24F and 30F). If you don't want to use your XH-A1 or G1 as a deck, then you'll need a Canon HV10 or HV20 consumer HDV camcorder to play back Frame mode 24F and 30F video. Hope this helps,

I've seen some posts of people using the HV20 as a deck. I'm wondering if there's anybody using the HV10 and if it functions OK with FCP and with the XH A1's 24f footage. I know the camera plays back all Canon frame rates, but I wonder how it works in actual use with FCP--ie., has anybody had one for a few months and been using it with no difficulties?

Nobody using this?

I have not tested this but I believe there have been no issues around using the HV10 as a full deck.

I'm just trying to get confirmation from somebody who is actually using to load 24p footage into FCP.

Bill, I use HV-10 for this with no problems at all... so I would think the HV-20 could as well, if not a tad more robust :)

Bill

Hi, I have a question concerning this,
can't I just use any regular cheap SD camcorder to upload my HDV tape to computer?
It's digital, so it should be the same, no?

Thanks

Andris,

A regular SD camcorder reads/writes an AVI file and cannot read the MPEG format that HD camcorders use. If you want to use a cheaper camera as a deck for HD you must use an HD model. Along with that, you must use a camera/deck that can read the frame rate and format of the camera you are shooting with. "Standard' HD in the USA for cameras (at this level) is 60i and most cameras will be able to read each others tapes. In addition to this you have several aternate frame rates and file structures. For example, besides 24 frames/sec you have Sony and Canon with their own version of progressive footage and PAL cameras that use 50i and 25p, etc. At this point the only decks available for some of these frame rate/file structures are cameras made by the same manufacturer. That is the reason for the original posters question. He is shooting with a Canon camera and shooting Canons version of 24 frames/progressive footage (24f) and wants to know if the cheaper Canon camera that can also shoot/play 24f will read the tapes from the larger A1.

Thank you for the information, but it's quite an expensive solution if all you need is a deck. :(
I recently bought A1 and have been looking for a deck device.

I agree and I'm in the same boat. With HDV consumer grade camcorders getting better and prices are falling, owning an older HV10 just for a deck is becoming more affordable. I remember when it was $1100, and now I've seen them from authorized dealers as low as $750 brand new. Whats awesome is if you need a "b" camcorder for some hard to get shots you have a short term solution.

I bought the hv10 from b&h for $699.00 and thats not expensive for a deck+broll... if you do get one buy an extra battery aswell because they dont last very long. also this cam works very well as a deck for the xha1 & plays 24f/30f it just wont record those formats... as far as FCP i wouldnt know because i use PC...

-Sam~!

The HV10 is down to about $700 from B&H, which is why I'm getting interested. I've been loading footage from the XH A1 but really don't like to do that on a regular basis. Also, I'm looking for a good excuse to have a tiny camera that fits in a jacket pocket. I know the HV20 may be a bit better, but my main use would be as a deck, so I really don't need the 20. Any use of the 10 for shooting would be "snapshot" type video, or maybe using it in situations where a bigger camera would not be allowed, ie., when you need to look like a tourist. In those cases I don't need the 20's mic input, etc.

I understand the 20 does 24p, but outputs it as pulldown, so I don't care much about that. Although...I wonder if you shoot 24p with the HV20 and play it back from your XH A1, would it be captured as real 24p like the XH A1's 24p, or would it still do the pulldown thing?

I know the HV20 can be a deck for the A1, but since you can't properly download 24p without cineform in the HV20, can I take the 24p footage I've shot on the HV20 and download with my buddy's A1 in 24f without worry?

Playing back an HV20 tape in an XH A1 is not going to change 24P into 24F.

In other words, what happens in the camera head of one camcorder does not change when playing back on another camcorder. Playback doesn't change a recording. Hope this helps,

From what I understand the 24f mode on the XHA1 can only be played back on the camera and the HV20/10. Are there any other options out there if I want to shoot to tape and capture without wearing the heads?

At work we have a Sony Z1U along with a Sony HDV deck and the combo works great, especially because we can preview HDV from FCP through the deck and on to the SD Color monitor. I would like to see a similar solution for the Canon cameras. I would like to hear any of your ideas and what you do to capture.

Frequently asked. Please search before posting.

All Sony HDV decks will play back Canon 1080i60 video.

However no Sony HDV decks will play back Canon 1080p24 or 1080p30 video (otherwise known as Frame mode or 24F and 30F). If you don't want to use your XH A1 as a deck, then you'll need either a Canon HV10 or HV20 consumer HDV camcorder to play back Frame mode 24F and 30F video. Hope this helps,

was researching and found your concerns, Bill...

curious what you did and what you found?

thanks,
Lonnie

I haven't done anything yet. Still using the XH A1 for loading, but several friends are also shooting with the same cameras and we might get together and buy a collective little camera to share.

h 10 was available from tigerdirect for 460 us

Thanks, Lloyd, for that very good explanation of the difference between the decks and the proprietary brand issues.

I do believe the HV10 is a fully compatible deck for the XH-A1, and capturing all of its frame rates. However, if someone is purchasing a deck now, I'd recommend the HV20 for the improvements over the HV10. I bought one, and it is a great deck for XH-A1 footage. It does, amazingly, mimic the look of 24f HD from the XHA1, and I was able to use it as a b-camera on a complicated shoot. The two cameras work so well together! HV20 also is able to do full 4:2:2 color space, straight to capture card for compositing green screen shots.

I am really happy with the capabilities of these cameras, and the way they work together. I love that I now have a cheaper deck, and a great b-camera, all in one.

Thank you for the information, but it's quite an expensive solution if all you need is a deck. :(
I recently bought A1 and have been looking for a deck device.

Hi Andris. How much were you expecting to pay for a deck? Usually they are a lot more expensive than the HV10 or HV20.

Richard

The only issue I have with the HV10 as a deck is it's slow transport response, but that's expected since it wasn't designed to be a deck in the 1st place.

Bill

Yeah, that's my major complaint about not having a deck--slow and cumbersome. However, I've sort of changed my workflow to compensate for that. Instead of logging and capturing specific shots, I just grab the whole tape, and FCP divides it into its separate clips, and I label them after capture. This would be impractical on shows where there are many takes of specific scenes and I only want to load the good ones, but so far I'm still shooting DVCAM for those projects. For my personal documentary stuff, I just capture the entire tape, and with lots of interviews, that's probably what I'd do in any case.

Still, it would be nice to have a deck.

I am considering both the A1 and the Sony V1u. I don't quite understand what the difference between Canon's 24f and Sony's 24p are (or 30f and 30p). Is it also true that there is no hdv deck that will play back Canon's 24f? Does resolution suffer in 24f/30f versus 60i?

Frequently asked... any consumer Canon HDV camcorder (HV10 or HV20) can be used as a deck to play back 24P or 30P video recorded in Frame mode. The Sony VTR's are incompatible with Frame mode.

Frequently asked... any consumer Canon HDV camcorder (HV10 or HV20) can be used as a deck to play back 24P or 30P video recorded in Frame mode. The Sony VTR's are incompatible with Frame mode.
In "true" progressive cameras, 30p boasts a slightly higher resolution than 60i. Does Canon's 30f do the same?

I believe the 24F and 30F modes slightly decrease resolution (I've heard around 10-15%, but I'm not positive).

It's a slight loss in vertical res, and a complete non-issue for XH A1 shooters.

It's a slight loss in vertical res, and a complete non-issue for XH A1 shooters.
Why is it a non-issue?

Because it is one of the best 24p/25p/30p pictures in its price range. On a static rez chart (one of many ways to measure a camera's capabilities), Frame mode is sharp; 60i is slightly sharper. Anyone not happy with the capabilities of an XH camera just needs to go out and spend a whole lot more money on something else.

Both the deck issue and slight differences in rez between 60i and Frame Mode have been discussed to death throughout the XL H1 and XH forums. Please review those many, many threads. Then, if there are any new facts to add to those existing discussions, please do.