Hi, I'm using PC Probe software, which came with my motherboard, for monitor my temperature on the cpu.
My problem is that when rendering, the application alert and beeps that the temperature is to high (61 celsius). This (I think) makes rendering fails with Vegas with an error, or the computer reboots.

Do anyone have a recommendation about another cpu cooler and other cooling solutions which makes my cpu less hotter?
Maybe some links to the right (best) cooling fans/products?

I'm usin Sony Vegas 7e with these specc:

Windows XP PRO (x86)
Intel Core 2 Duo E6700 (2,67MHz)
4GB RAM [667MHz] (3008MB avalible on my x86 Win)
Geforce 7900GS
2x160GB SATA2

No components are overklocked, all original...

I had a bit of an overheating problem for a while and although my solution wasn't as elegant as a CPU cooling fan I am putting one in my new machine. (I simply took off the one side of the computer case and left it naked for all the world to see :-) Not a great idea but it has worked.
Don't know if they ship to Sweden they might but try Tigerdirect.com OR Newegg.com they both should have what you're looking for.
My original solution is OK but you gotta watch the dirt from the room getting into and onto the components. A little DustOff every once in a while works great.
Don

Your cable routing, inside the case, has a big effect. That video card is also a big heat generator. It helps to think about how the air flows thru your case. Make sure the hotter exhaust air isn't being drawn into the cool air intake.

Kim, the E6700 is an excellent processor that runs at a cool 65 watts. If you installed it yourself, reinstall and use Artic Silver if you didn't the first time. Your particular processor should not run hot, something is not right.

The following only applies if you built your own. I can't imagine an OEM system running hot unless you inadvertently blocked the air flow. This is why I bought my latest workstation instead of building as I had for the last 15 years. I paid less buying a workstation class Dell at their online outlet than if I had bought the parts and built my own. Heck, the graphics card in my machine currently retails for $1295 but I only paid 2K for the whole system and I got a quad processor and 4MB memory, and two hard drives running off integrated SATA raid 0. Then there are the compatibility issues, cooling issues, I could go on and on, as you all know. I never want to build my own again, unless its for grins and giggles.

Anyway, back to your problem. GIGABYTE GH-PDU21-MF Ball CPU Cooler is a great fan similar to what you might need if you can't otherwise solve your problem, cheap and huge and extremely effective...look at TD or newegg as Don suggested. I suspect it is an issue with your case as Bill suggested it could be. If you think it would help, buy you a big old honkin' Gigabyte (or some other brand) tower if your case is small and look for at least three fans and an aluminum case if you don't have one...yes, I am well acquainted with heat issues, and hope I never become temporaily insane and decide to build my own again....it was not fun tearing my PC apart to install the processor fan, I had to remove the motherboard and my wife was mad because there I was spending ANOTHER evening in the basement. I was running a Duo Core which ran extremely hot, I didn't have a choice.

Good Luck!

Upgrading your heatsink won't hurt. Here are the top rated items from SilentPcReview...

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article30-page1.html

If you go with a Thermalright, it will need a fan. Also, consider that your case fan(s) might be inadequate. To test, try running your PC with the case open. If that solves the problem, it's a case fan issue...

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article63-page2.html

Personally, I've been very happy with Thermalright and Zalman products, and have been using Scythe S-Flex fans.

thanks for responses.
I have not build my PC by my self, I bought my PC throw my work, which I choose the components and then I had the computer technician, put it up. So I got it finished delivered with the components i choose.

I open the PC today, and on my graphic card, I found a sticker on "Hitman" (the game), half loose. The glow under the sticker have been to warm and come loose hanging....
I removed it completely.
I did a vacuum, inside whole computer... I noticed that the heatsink had alot of dust inside it, Impossible to remove it because to small area...
I have a big tower, so its alot of space i think (I can't judge).
I took off the one side of the computer case and left it naked like Don Bloom said.

About fans, I have one on the powersupply, one on the cpu, one on the graphic card and one on the back om my PC (blows air out of the case i think)... Maybe I have to few?

Anyway, after this modification I just done, my temperature when rendering, is down to 53 Celsius... GREAT! (30 Celsius idle...)
At last, my PC have stopped warning me the PC is to warm.

I will change to a "better" fan and heatsink then the original Core 2 Duo's anyway if it can lower the temperature more...

Thanks for the tips from everybody.
Will work on with this issue trying to get under 40 Celsius on working temp....

You should buy yourself a can of compressed air and every six months or so, open your case and blow all the accumulated dust that builds up.

Wow, great idea...
I though of bringing my PC to my work, there I have a tourniquet which I could use to blow all the accumulated dust away...
But thats kind of lengthy...

Thanks

A can of compressed air, especially for your heatsink, is an excellent idea.
The fact that you noticed a lot of dust in it means that it really does need to be cleaned out. That should drop your CPU temp another few degrees as well.

I prefer a vacuum to compressed air. I'd rather get the dust out of the room than to blow it all around. *cough*

Apparently conventional vacuums can cause static that can fry your parts.

One source:
# NEVER use a conventional vacuum for the inside of your computer; static created can damage the internal components.
http://www.computertrends.com/tips-after-purchasing.asp

Kim, you do NOT need to buy a new heatsink. Check that your current heatsink is correctly installed... e.g. it is flat over the CPU, not slanted to one side or whatever. Taking it out and putting it back in (read the instructions!!!) should work. Do not power on the computer without the heatsink on the CPU.

The heatsinks that come with retail CPUs are good enough to do the job. (Why would they ship you something that is not good enough??) If your CPU can't render without errors then you'd have a defective processor and be eligible for warranty. But chances are that the CPU is fine and that your problem is likely the heatsink not installed correctly (or other cooling problem).

2- The naked computer can help cooling, but I'd be wary of that since objects/liquid can enter the case or you might accidentally knock something out. Once I was doing a live webcast and the sound card was knocked out... the naked computer was a bad idea in that case.

I've heard both air and vacuums recommended. A bit more advanced way to handle it: Spray it with compressed air with a vacuum nearby. Then you get the gunk out, without touching the components with the hose, and a lot less goes into the air. :)

Sometimes I just bring my machines outside and blow them out outside and don't worry about the dust.

But one thing with tower cases to keep in mind with airflow. If there are no air holes on the sides of it, then they're most likely beneath the front bezel. If the machine is sitting on a carpet, the intake on the front bottom is blocked by the carpet and not taking in much air. If you put it on some books or blocks or something, even an inch or so higher, it will get a lot more fresh air in there.

Just a thought..
Eric

I hadn't considered static electricity from a vacuum. It should be fine if you use a vacuum hose attachment and touch the case while holding the hose near the end. Any charge between the two will be softly discharged. A wire with a 1 Mohm resistor in series will also do the trick - it lets the current equalize, but not quickly enough to cause a spark. A 50 kV charge would have a peak discharge of 50 mA.

Regarding a poorly seated heatsink, that's not unlikely. Also check that the fan on the heatsink is turning freely. Though a new heatsink probably isn't needed, a top sink will cool better and do it more quietly. As a composer, I always go for a quiet PC solution.

Regarding the open case, that's only needed to test the case temp. If the open case solves the problem, install an additional fan and close the case again.

1- Closed Systems I have a parallel specialism. I've fired updraught and downdraught ceramic kilns. When a system, and here the the PC case, is designed to be enclosed, to allow a partial vacuum to be applied for exhausting purposes, then removing one side kinda defeats the object of the exhaust fan - yeah?

2- Spring Clean! Others here will know the exacting issues I had some 2 years back with my PC failing and falling over on MPEG renders. Why? The main CPU was almost disguised as a South American jungle. Out with the vacuum device, a rubber hose, gaffer tape and a long-handled natural-short-haired artist's brush.

3- "The Heat is ON!" Make sure that the hottest component is nearest the exhaust fan. What's the point in having the exhaust fan dragging heat over other cooler components?

4- GIGO Check those input portals too. To start with I overlooked these. They were so clogged up it was as if the Munsters had taken up residence.

I'll try and drag out a link to the tiny "Horror! Horror!" story fans thing I did.

Grazie

great suggestions everyone...
Im not a PC technician, so my knowledge on rebuild my own PC is limited...
Ive tested the easiest ways to solve those problems, after this it sounds I have to leave the PC in for additional service. I'm first trying to check with my friends.

Anyway, after getting down the temperature from 61 Celsius to 53 Celsius while rendering, the project didnt render successfully...

I think it is the format i have choosen.

MPEG-2, 1280x720, 50,000 fps, progressive, output type: HDV, Video quality: High, full-resolution rendering quality: best......

When i lower the fps to 25, the project will finish the rendering with successs.
Problem is when my project (photomontage) using only 25fps, the pictures moving around very choppy. 50fps is the only way to solve this...

Somehow Vegas doesnt handle to complex rendering... WHY ??

Somehow Vegas doesnt handle to complex rendering... WHY ??

Hmmm? I am not sure that that is correct or a fair comment on Vegas. Vegas is format agnostic. How it does this must be because it has some truly heavy duty algorithms and programming going on. Maybe because it IS capable that it will eventually do the job. What you may have is a local setup that may not be coping with the grunt of Vegas. Just add that into your equation - yeah?

However, try this as a suggestion. When I have complex FX-ing and I produce an interim AVI. Try a bit of this. You might like it.

Grazie

Well... I have got the suggestion to change dynamic RAM to 0 (kept render threads to original 4), and did no other change what so ever.
I did, aw wnd you knohat, IT WORKED.
Problem is that the project is rendering the project for 15 hours. It would take 7 hours to render the project with Dynamic RAM settings on original (511MB), before the whole project became unstable...

This is fact. (What does Dynamic RAM preview with final rendering to do ??)
Why should the render be a success with lower it to 0 ? And why double the render time with this change ?

I have to believe Sony have done more wrong then me...

Is 61°c your peak temp? i.e. the max it reaches when under load? If so, it's not that high, certainly shouldn't be causing instability. 61°c idle is another matter, as your fully loaded temp would be >80, which is bad. Core2 generation chips don't self-throttle until (IIRC) 85-99, depending on model, so the point of actual damage is somewhere above that.

Yes Kris, 61°c is my peak temp (since I removed one side of the case, its down to 55°c)
When my computer is Idle it is on 40-45°c.

If this isn't bad, why does then my PC application for monitor the temperature, warning me with an alarm. (the default threshold is 60°c) ??.
The application I use is my Asus motherboards PC Probe....

when you select a size for dynamic RAM, it locks up that much memory exclusively for RAM preview. you, therefore, have that much less available for regular rendering.

Yes Bill I know, thank you.
I have 4GB RAM on my PC (only 3GB availible since I use Windows x86).
I have enough with memory. This shouldn't make my rendering fail with an PC restart, a Sony Vegas error message or an Sony Vegas shutdown.

Even if i shrink Dynamic RAM preview to as little to 64MB or less, Vegas will still fail render with success... But still, I have enough.

Is 61°c your peak temp? i.e. the max it reaches when under load? If so, it's not that high, certainly shouldn't be causing instability. 61°c idle is another matter, as your fully loaded temp would be >80, which is bad. Core2 generation chips don't self-throttle until (IIRC) 85-99, depending on model, so the point of actual damage is somewhere above that.

This is right; 61°c is not near the Tjunction throttle temperatures for Core2 processors (85° or 100°c, depending on which model), and therefore shouldn't be the issue.

Interestingly, my CPU (QX6800 - quad @ 2.9GH or so) DOES run at about 80°c under full load, and idles at about 52-58°c depending. Believe me, I was panicking when I first got the system (prompting a lot of research about core temps). It is possible that my heatsink is not attached and thermal pasted as efficiently as it could be. However, I eventually stopped worrying about it because:

1. QX6800s in particular are known for running very hot; it may not actually be out of normal range;
2. The Tjunction for this chip is 100°c; i.e. I'm loading at a clear 20° lower than the point at which it will begin to throttle;
3. I have experienced exactly zero stability issues that I can attribute to full load use. (I have had stability issues doing other things that don't put the processor under full load, but have not had issues during full 4-core rendering processes, for example).

Kim, regardless of what PC Probe may be saying, you may need to look elsewhere for a cause for the render failures.

Kim,

The default is just what they have set for Asus Probe software. It may be that the Asus Probe monitor program is used for a variety of motherboards / CPUs made by Asus. I used to have an Asus board and Probe software. You can go in and set you own warning threshholds. Heck, my laptop with a core 2 duo 2ghz runs at 60c any time I using it. If I'm watching video or editing it will go up to 75-80 and the fan comes on.

Duane

- When thinking about your computer's cooling configuration, remember that all of the fans in the world blowing into a sealed space won't do anything more than swirl around hot air. Exhaust fans matter the most, so make sure that you pull plenty of air out of the back of your computer. Intake fans on the front can feed the space with cool air for a nice front->back movement. A properly put-together computer will generally see cooler temperatures with a closed case than with an open one.

- Your dynamic RAM amounts are generally better closer to 128MB. This *is* actually an amount of RAM that Vegas will use for rendering (not just preview), but it's a soft lower-limit. If Vegas needs some memory above that setting for rendering operations, it won't hesitate to take it. It's the same engine for preview/rendering, so Bill's comment isn't really true.

- You can diagnose things a bit with the *way* in which your project failed to render. If you had reboots after lowering your temperature, chances are that you have some bad RAM. Once the system/Vegas started using certain physical addresses, things went boom. If it's only Vegas crashing, that doesn't rule out a hardware problem, but it does point more towards the software.

- For some operations, like 3D rendering, the amount of memory taken by having multiple threads can be significant. If the preview RAM amount is close to 128MB, thread-count typically matters more. This number is also a *maximum* based on the number of logical processors on the system (hyperthreading makes 2 logical from 1 physical). That is, if you have only two cores, you won't have 4 render-threads. You'll have 2.



=Matt

OK! I have researched a lot about my CPU, my temperature is stable and under normal temperature. This is based on the facts I read on several forums and news sites...

I even clocked it from 2.67GHz to 3.0GHz with my stock fan (It was apparently very easy).
The temperature has only increased with 5°c (on idle & when working).
I'm now aware that I have no heat problem... I raised the warning threshholds to 70°c... Thank you.

Matthew Chaboud - What do you mean with Bad RAM ? Are they broken ?
And yes, my project is a 3D rendering project...
And the rest you wrote i couldn't understand, my English is limited (Swedish is my original language). Is there any changes I should do within my project, you mean ?

Kim, "bad RAM" means that some parts of the memory are defective.

That said, since you're doing 3D, lower the video rendering threads to 1. Each rendering thread hangs onto some cached buffers for 3D that can cause address-space starvation.

-Matt

Ok... So can't I just buy new RAM's ?
And maybe I shall buy different RAM's with better MHz ?
Lets say a DDR3 over 1300MHz. Would that do any different.
Maybe that would do better?

Or is it just like this?

thnks..

Kim, don't buy new RAM yet! First, do Matthew's suggestion.

1. Open Vegas 2. go to OPTIONS 3. then to PREFERENCES, 4. then open VIDEO. 5. Then find MAXIMUM NUMBER OF RENDERING THREADS 6. change to 1 (one).

See if that helps.

Thnks Jeff,,, But I already tried that, it worked.

Problem is that render time have increased with 50% when I do that...
I have a dualcore... and I really want to use all my cores to do the render...
Or else I could of bought a single cpu PC...

All my project will be 3D compositions...

Sorry Kim...I have nothing...I hope you find another solution.

Thnks for reply and thoughts.

Me my self think that if Matthew Chaboud think my RAM cause address-space starvation, It would help to buy faster RAM....

Your motherboard likely won't support DDR3 ... do check.

Faster DDR2 memory will be fine, though.. (e.g., 800mhz rather than 667mhz)

If it was bad ram, I would expect stability issues for all programs... since you're presumably running two DDR2 chips in dual-channel mode, data will be evenly spread between chips, so a bad chip should be quite obvious...

This is a tricky one, I'd do the following, roughly in this order--

-check the error msg to see if a plugin caused it (like waves dlls)
-check hard disk space
-check temperatures
-reboot
-set dynamic ram to 0, then to 200, see if any help
-tweak render profile to see if some settings work while others don't
-see if you can narrow down a specific render setting it doesn't like
-render on another computer (..we run a network of 3 boxes which share storage)
-reinstall vegas
-reinstall windows
-unplug some devices, like DVD drive and unused Hard drives, to make sure power supply isn't over-loaded
-pull out all RAM apart from one chip
-try the render with the other ram chip only (if it's ram, then it'll crash only with the bad chip installed)
-swap in a different cpu (quite easy, if you don't mind taking another pc offline and re-doing the thermal paste)
-swap in a different motherboard (pain in the ass)

I do know that I have to change motherboard for upgrading to DDR3.

I run 4x1GB 667MHz

The project did fail on my laptop dual-core too....

The issue most be in Vegas itself

Sony Vegas doesn't handle so high fps (50) with HD (720p)... i think...

The project fails at 47% most of the time, sometime a reboot!

Sounds like the project file or a component file [video file or audio file] could be corrupted. Have you tried building a new project with different components but the same resolution, etc. See if Vegas has the same problem. If yes, it may be a Vegas problem. If not, it may be a problem with your project file or one of it's component files.

corrupted? How would a corrupted media look ??

By 'corrupt' I mean that there is some sort of error within the file--some zeros and ones got mixed up or something. It may be an error that doesn't matter until Vegas tries to process it. It may PLAY OK.

I have never used Vegas, but with Premiere, a project file [VEG file in Vegas] or a video or audio file can be corrupt and as a result the project may not play, may not render, etc. It's difficult to find out what exactly is corrupt. That's why I suggest first building a new project with the same settings but with different video and audio files and see if Vegas has any problems with it. If it does not then there may be a corrupt file in your project or the file that Vegas created with the events [VEG file] may have gotten corrupted somehow.

You said it renders OK to a certain point? Using Premiere with similar situations I have sometimes figured out which file appears at the point where the problem occurs. Then remove that file and see if then the project is OK. If it OK without that file, then it must be that particular file that has a problem, so I deleted that file and re-captured that footage.

If the VEG file is corrupt, then it's more complicated to try to fix the problem. The solution may be to start the project over from the beginning--a very depressing thing to have to do!

Solving a problem like this is like trying to solve a puzzle. Sometimes you can find a solution and sometimes you can't and have to start over. When these machines work right it's amazing what wonderful things you can do. When they don't work, you want to throw it out the window!

yeah, you are right, very depressing...
I spent over 600 hours on this project.

This project is going to make me rich, later in time...

But I'll have to start searching where there could be a corrupted file...

Good luck Kim!

Remember! [If my suggestion works out] I get 10%! ;-)

Speaking of corrupted files, I used to have issues with corrupted .veg files. But no more! You guys already know this trick, I'm sure.

Instead of using "Save", I use "Save As" under same name. It was with repeated saving that the files somehow became corrupted. Using Save As, each time I save project it is to the project as if I'm saving it for the first time.

If anyone needs to tell me why this shouldn't work, I can only say to you that it works anyway, and beautifully. I have not had a corrupted .veg file after thousands of saves and over two years after beginning this method.

Wow, sound strange.... But if thats the trick.....

Yes Kim, I know someone who saves his project every save by saving it under new name for same reason, but that is not necessary.

I need to be clear, before this method I often had corrupted .veg files...strange problems that I couldn't explain, very frustrating. I do it so automatically now I don't even think about it. The reason I suppose was because I made SO many changes and experimented with so many kinds of music, etc., on a clip, I was adding and deleting things from timeline quickly and for hours at a time. It was no wonder the .veg files became messed up.

ok... little confused...
Do you mean that it is good to use "Save".
Or do you mean that it is good to use "Save As" ??

Which one is the bad and good...?

Save As with the same or a different name works for me. It's like saving a brand new project every time.

For certain projects - usually the more complex ones - I tend to 'Save As' with an incrementing version number.

The .veg files are typically very small so it's not a space waster, but it is very handy to be able to go back a few versions, for example to remind myself of a filter's settings at that point in time or to copy a section of clips that I may subsequently have moved around.

The address-space starvation issue is a complex/painful one that I will try to remedy in a future update.

For now, stick to a reduced thread count.

Only if you're getting blue-screens/reboots should you look at RAM as a possible culprit.

-Matt

Thanks... I will wait and see...